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Purple Floyd
09-18-2011, 09:23 PM
So now we have 2 weeks of collapse to digest and probably a good chunk of angst to get rid of so lets hear your armchair QB, spreadsheet column, and news feed oriented opinions on how the team needs to fix the hole they dug for themselves.

I will start by saying that I don't believe they can fix anything to the point that they make the playoffs or a run for the division. IMHO unless there are severe injuries to a few high profile QB's the only thing they have a chance to do is to start to transition to the future and build the team with youth and speed.

So what would I do? Well, I guess I would start with looking at the players we have and probably look real close at running those 2- 3 TE formations that will put our best athletes on the field. We have no real depth at WR so anyone other than Harvin and once in a while Jenkins is just diluting our depth on the field and if we are going to run and pass short then having Rudolph, Sasser and Shank on the field is a better mix than Berrian, Jenkins and Harvin and will give us added beef to plow holes for AP and Toby to run through.

The defense needs major work in the secondary and LB positions. The DL will be fine once we get KW back but in the secondary we look like we are always a step behind the competition and before anyone says the scheme just keeps us from getting burned deep that is now officially out the window too. And we also cannot make a tackle in the secondary. Not much can be done except to place fixing it as a high off season priority and doing what we can do to slow the bleeding in the mean time. I also think we need to look at whether EJ and Erin are really cutting it because they seem to be a notch behind what the playoff caliber teams have at those positions.

The coaching staff- They are not winning any popularity contests and for good reason. While the ship seems to be tighter the decisions on the field seem to be no better than we had last regime and with a decline in talent we need more and not less from the coaches. Hopefully Wilf and Spielman are evaluating this closely and if it isn't working hopefully they don't wait 5 years to change things. I would prefer to have a top notch GM brought in to run the team and I hope Wilf is looking at it too.

MulletMullitia
09-19-2011, 03:21 AM
Great thread Floyd. I wish I had a good response for you. I really don't know what to say. I truly believe we just don't have the personnel to get the job done. We have a couple players that are good enough to carry the team on their back (Adrian Peterson) for a couple scattered wins, but there isn't a way for this group to win consistently without some MAJOR changes. Not like play-calling or coaching changes. I am talking about personnel changes. I can't remember a time when the NFL had this many talented teams. We need to hope and pray that Ponder is a hit. And that we have the best draft since 2007. The win-now philosophy is so hard to abandon after that year we had in 2009. But we have to be realistic. Without a little luck and a stellar draft next offseason, this team could be headed for a total rebuild. From the Front Office all the way down to the practice team.

Mark_The_Viking
09-19-2011, 05:05 AM
I suppose the most dissapointing thing is the coaching as much as it doesnt appear (imo) to have changed from last year and that lost chilly his job. Hard to know whT to do and its times like this that the coach send front office guys earn their paycheck. A little part of me is wondering if the uncertainty of the stadium is having an effect.

Could the Wilfs be resigned to moving the franchise and will wait to make the decisions to rebuild? I would love to know what they are thinking right now. After last night I have no intention of pointing a finger because there didn't appear to be any one thing to point it at. Positive is that we aren't as bad as the lions were and we aren't as bad as the chiefs are. Looking forward to the future even if with some slight trepidation :-)

Purple Floyd
09-19-2011, 06:57 AM
Great thread Floyd. I wish I had a good response for you. I really don't know what to say. I truly believe we just don't have the personnel to get the job done. We have a couple players that are good enough to carry the team on their back (Adrian Peterson) for a couple scattered wins, but there isn't a way for this group to win consistently without some MAJOR changes. Not like play-calling or coaching changes. I am talking about personnel changes. I can't remember a time when the NFL had this many talented teams. We need to hope and pray that Ponder is a hit. And that we have the best draft since 2007. The win-now philosophy is so hard to abandon after that year we had in 2009. But we have to be realistic. Without a little luck and a stellar draft next offseason, this team could be headed for a total rebuild. From the Front Office all the way down to the practice team.

It's OK MM. I know how you feel and I have been there myself in my younger days. You hit quite a few things square on the head and they all are reasons why I have been saying we just need to play the young guys and let them develop so they are ready to start the rebuilding process next year. We have been so average for so long it is hard to comprehend a season with only a few wins and I certainly am not happy with the prospect, but if it means we draft higher for a few years and get a great nucleus of players to build a great team around then I am much more willing to accept that than to plug a few holes with vets and continue to be mediocre at best.

Marrdro
09-19-2011, 10:47 AM
First and foremost. Find a DT that can play the 0 technique. Without one of these cats we have relied on (first game) a steady diet of LB'rs blitzing to help get pressure and that, for the most part, really didn't help much. In the second game we saw a small wrinkle, and that was the use of the S's up close to the line and tighter coverage by the CB's. Again, that helped to some degree, but when the chips were down and we really needed to pressure the QB, we found out that we can't do it with just the front 4.

My fix.....

Spielman and Company need to take a look at the following cats (or anyone else that might be available) and see if you can get one to show up and be a situational guy, especially late in the games....

a. Phat Pat
b. Kris Jenkins
c. Marcus Stroud

Again, don't need them to do much, especially early in the games, just need one to come in and eat up some blockers/collapse the pocket when we have to have just our front 4 get it done.

Second. I would find a fricken GM and hire him and give him full GM powers so that we don't have glaring holes like this on our roster.

Marrdro
09-19-2011, 10:48 AM
The DL will be fine once we get KW back
Seriously?

i_bleed_purple
09-19-2011, 10:58 AM
What I would do if I were in charge.

1: Hire a damn GM. Zygi needs to not be making ANY type of football decision, including what coaches to hire. Get a guy who makes a living doing that type of thing.

2: Get a WR. Dont' care if we have to trade (reasonable price though). Harvin can't be a one man corps, and we can't run 3 TE sets all day long. There are guys out there, we don't need a superstar, but someone who can be a threat to make plays. Berrian doesn't seem to be cutting it.

3: OL - at this point it will be tough to do anything about it, but it needs to be addressed big time in the offseason. Get two guards and a LT. Hutch is a FA next year I believe, and I don't see us bringing him back.

4: Call up Phat Pat. We miss him. Guion is NOT ready to be a full-time starter, despite what some here were claiming in preseason. Ayodele isn't really turning heads. Once K-W gets back, things should improve, but our interior line is in complete shambles right now.

5: Go back to the basics on O. No cute playcalling, we run, we throw the high percentage plays. Run Play action and draws. Once they show they can manage that, then expand from there. McNabb stays, but we need to improve. Would love to see more of the TE's and RB's involved int he passing game.

6: Get another LB. EJ/Greenway do fine, but there is an obvious dropoff after that. Lofa Tatupu is still a free agent.

7: Get a depth CB. So far our starters are actually playing fairly decently, but with Cook going down with injury, I'm concerned about our depth. Burton has skills, but is very raw still, and I dont' trust Asher whatsoever.

Marrdro
09-19-2011, 11:05 AM
2: Get a WR. Dont' care if we have to trade (reasonable price though). Harvin can't be a one man corps, and we can't run 3 TE sets all day long. There are guys out there, we don't need a superstar, but someone who can be a threat to make plays. Berrian doesn't seem to be cutting it.

3: OL - at this point it will be tough to do anything about it, but it needs to be addressed big time in the offseason. Get two guards and a LT. Hutch is a FA next year I believe, and I don't see us bringing him back.

4: Call up Phat Pat. We miss him. Guion is NOT ready to be a full-time starter, despite what some here were claiming in preseason. Ayodele isn't really turning heads. Once K-W gets back, things should improve, but our interior line is in complete shambles right now.


2. What would you do with this guy? Maybe all we need to do is have the staff throw it to him deep more than once a game. Until that happens, a deep threat isn't really needed now is it?

3. What is wrong with the way the Ol is playing now? Sure we dont' have HOF'rs at every position but they are not the problem.

4. Guion is fine as a starter, in the 3 technique role but not as a replacement for Phat Pat. The guy who is failing at that job is Remi and Evans. Hack on them, not Guion.

i_bleed_purple
09-19-2011, 11:45 AM
2. What would you do with this guy? Maybe all we need to do is have the staff throw it to him deep more than once a game. Until that happens, a deep threat isn't really needed now is it?


3. What is wrong with the way the Ol is playing now? Sure we dont' have HOF'rs at every position but they are not the problem.

4. Guion is fine as a starter, in the 3 technique role but not as a replacement for Phat Pat. The guy who is failing at that job is Remi and Evans. Hack on them, not Guion.[/quote]

I never said deep threat, I said threat to make plays. Plays can be as simple as moving the chains. Currently, we seem to have a problem doing that. We can not have a legitimate passing offense with one receiver, we need somethign to work with. Percy isn't a guy who commands double coverage, due to his size, he's not a guy who's consisntently going to go up and get balls when he's covered. He still needs to get open. When a team can focus on the run, and lock down Harvin, our offense seems to stall. We need somebody who can at least be relied on to make catches, move the chains, if he can be a deep threat as well, great.

3. Whats wrong? More like what's right. Honestly, what do you see out of our line that has any semblance of acceptable?

4. Is Guion holding up on his end? No. I hack on everybody who isn't performing to a level tha is acceptable. Having KW back will help, but in the meantime, we need peole to step up, and nobody is doing that.

Marrdro
09-19-2011, 12:00 PM
I never said deep threat, I said threat to make plays. Plays can be as simple as moving the chains. Currently, we seem to have a problem doing that. We can not have a legitimate passing offense with one receiver, we need somethign to work with. Percy isn't a guy who commands double coverage, due to his size, he's not a guy who's consisntently going to go up and get balls when he's covered. He still needs to get open. When a team can focus on the run, and lock down Harvin, our offense seems to stall. We need somebody who can at least be relied on to make catches, move the chains, if he can be a deep threat as well, great.

3. Whats wrong? More like what's right. Honestly, what do you see out of our line that has any semblance of acceptable?

4. Is Guion holding up on his end? No. I hack on everybody who isn't performing to a level tha is acceptable. Having KW back will help, but in the meantime, we need peole to step up, and nobody is doing that.
OK, did you have a problem with how we moved the chains yesterday? Seems like the spread between passing and running was pretty good (25 first downs, 12 rushing, 12 passing, 1 Penalty) and it wasn't just one WR involved (Read name, targets/receptions - Percy 8/7, Shanc 7/3, BB 4/1, AD, 2/2, Toby 1/1, Sauce 0/1, Arasmoshodu 0/2).

On a side note, even though the deep ones didn't connect with BB and Arasmoshodu, it was good to see them taking the shots. As I keep saying, that part will come with time.

What do you see wrong with the OL? Nice holes for AD and Toby. For the most part Dnabb had time to make the throws.

How can you say Guion isn't holding up to his end? Did you watch who was doubled? Surely you aren't going to say JA. Of the 5 QB hits, he had one, JA had 3 and Everson had 1. Could his numbers be up a bit more in tackles? Sure, but you have to go back and watch what they were doing to him to see why that wasn't gonna happen.

Marrdro
09-19-2011, 12:13 PM
For those still touting the OL sucks......

32nd QB hits with 4. (Atlanta 1rst with 18)
16th Sacks (tied with 9) with 4. (Bores first with 11)
4th Rushing Avg (Tied with Atlanta) 5.8 (Iggles 1rst with 6.0)

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=OFFENSIVE_LINE&role=TM&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&archive=false&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_QBHIT&qualified=true

Just saying. :)

i_bleed_purple
09-19-2011, 02:00 PM
For those still touting our OL doesn't suck.

29th in the league in passing attempts (stands to reason we'd be very low for hits as well)
29th in the league in passing attempts (Stands to reason we'd be low for sacks... oh, we aren't? Well gee...)
1st in the league in having the best RB in the game (hmm.. you mean a guy who can get 85% of his yards by himself)
4th in the league in QB rush average (behind Vick, Newton and Henne). Think that maybe also drags up our average? In fact, those yards come BECAUSE our blocking breaks down.

Marrdro
09-19-2011, 02:06 PM
For those still touting our OL doesn't suck.

29th in the league in passing attempts (stands to reason we'd be very low for hits as well)
29th in the league in passing attempts (Stands to reason we'd be low for sacks... oh, we aren't? Well gee...)
1st in the league in having the best RB in the game (hmm.. you mean a guy who can get 85% of his yards by himself)
4th in the league in QB rush average (behind Vick, Newton and Henne). Think that maybe also drags up our average? In fact, those yards come BECAUSE our blocking breaks down.
Dink/dunk my friend. Dink/dunk. Not my problem the offensive coordinator doesn't throw it as much as you would like.

I, for one like the improvement this week. 25 first downs. 12 passing, 12 rushing. Pretty balanced offense if you ask me. Can't get that done without an OL that can run as well as pass block.

i_bleed_purple
09-19-2011, 02:18 PM
My point is not "Our passing game sucks". It is that you can't say just because he wasn't sacked much means that our OL is better than god-awful.

As for your last point, I absolutely disagree. Talented skill players can make up for a lack of OL, as we saw in 2009 alot. McNabb has the ability to get he ball out there and evade rushers, Peterson has the ability to make something happen out of nothing and our TE's are good enough as well. Despite what you might think, many teams do manage to win on occasion DESPITE awful OL play.

kevoncox
09-19-2011, 02:43 PM
Again,
We are up 17-7 at one point in two games. We collapse in both. You can't tell me it's the Oline. This is squarely on the players.
How about not using our TOs at the two min mark to stop the clock on 1st and goal. The Bucs ran the clock out and scored leaving us no time. That was an idiot move and cemented to me that our coaching staff is out gunned each Sunday.

tastywaves
09-19-2011, 04:14 PM
What's your definition of fixed?

Are you looking for the quickest path to a SB? Are you looking at your best chance to win a SB? Or are you trying to build a long term perennially contending SB team?

Probably all of the above if you're like most fans.

No matter what the desired goal is, I'm afraid the answer is far beyond what us casual yutz's can write in a thread. Rebuilding is the easy answer, but it only works if the people doing the rebuilding know what they are doing. And if you had those people, you probably wouldn't have to rebuild.

The vikings coaching staff is full of unproven guys that are led by a young owner with limited knowledge. A GM makes a lot of sense, but it should have been done before Frazier was hired. And then you have to hope that the right GM is brought in, which is a big question mark. Now that Frazier is here, I think you have to give him a chance to see how he steers the ship. At least through the season.

He is growing and may end up being a solid HC, but he didn't do himself any favors by bringing in Musgrave to take over the offense.

This discussion will have a lot more merit after the season is finished. For now, Frazier has to teach his players how to go strong for 4 quarters and really emphasize discipline in crucial situations. This is and has been are largest failing for a long time. Doesn't take a genius to fix this aspect, just the right motivation.

if you want a perennial contender, start your rebuilding process at the top.

Purple Floyd
09-19-2011, 04:59 PM
Seriously?

So let me get this straight because you seem to be using different standards here:

It is OK for an OL to look at or below average because in your words they are missing guys and had to put new guys in there which made them less effective and also last year the secondary didn't play all that bad because they also had guys in there who didn't have much experience but yet when we have one starting DT out of there and have a new guy replacing the one that retired you are all over their shit for underperforming even though the DT's sure as hell outplayed the secondary in every phase of the game?

Seriously?

Purple Floyd
09-19-2011, 05:00 PM
Again,
We are up 17-7 at one point in two games. We collapse in both. You can't tell me it's the Oline. This is squarely on the players.
How about not using our TOs at the two min mark to stop the clock on 1st and goal. The Bucs ran the clock out and scored leaving us no time. That was an idiot move and cemented to me that our coaching staff is out gunned each Sunday.

Aren't the OL considered players? If so didn't you just contradict yourself in 2 consecutive sentences?

Purple Floyd
09-19-2011, 05:02 PM
What's your definition of fixed?

Are you looking for the quickest path to a SB? Are you looking at your best chance to win a SB? Or are you trying to build a long term perennially contending SB team?

Probably all of the above if you're like most fans.

No matter what the desired goal is, I'm afraid the answer is far beyond what us casual yutz's can write in a thread. Rebuilding is the easy answer, but it only works if the people doing the rebuilding know what they are doing. And if you had those people, you probably wouldn't have to rebuild.

The vikings coaching staff is full of unproven guys that are led by a young owner with limited knowledge. A GM makes a lot of sense, but it should have been done before Frazier was hired. And then you have to hope that the right GM is brought in, which is a big question mark. Now that Frazier is here, I think you have to give him a chance to see how he steers the ship. At least through the season.

He is growing and may end up being a solid HC, but he didn't do himself any favors by bringing in Musgrave to take over the offense.

This discussion will have a lot more merit after the season is finished. For now, Frazier has to teach his players how to go strong for 4 quarters and really emphasize discipline in crucial situations. This is and has been are largest failing for a long time. Doesn't take a genius to fix this aspect, just the right motivation.

if you want a perennial contender, start your rebuilding process at the top.

I probably fall into that category and would be fine with going through the process if they hired the right guy.

gabe_menendez
09-19-2011, 08:53 PM
Aren't the OL considered players? If so didn't you just contradict yourself in 2 consecutive sentences? Believe he meant coaches not players.....

Marrdro
09-20-2011, 02:20 PM
So let me get this straight because you seem to be using different standards here:

It is OK for an OL to look at or below average because in your words they are missing guys and had to put new guys in there which made them less effective and also last year the secondary didn't play all that bad because they also had guys in there who didn't have much experience but yet when we have one starting DT out of there and have a new guy replacing the one that retired you are all over their shit for underperforming even though the DT's sure as hell outplayed the secondary in every phase of the game?

Seriously?
Nope, if the OL was costing us games I would be on them. In this instance they are not.

I am much happier with the DE's efforts early this year as compared to early last year. However (coma), the DT play is lacking a bit when it comes to collapsing the pocket.

Go back, watch both QB's we've faced especially late in the game. They had all day long to pick what reciever they were going to hit. I don't care how good your secondary is, even if we had guys that were shutdown CB's, the recievers would get open.

Mix in our scheme were we leave holes and they will always find someone open.

i_bleed_purple
09-20-2011, 04:17 PM
Go back, watch both QB's we've faced especially late in the game. They had all day long to pick what reciever they were going to hit. I don't care how good your secondary is, even if we had guys that were shutdown CB's, the recievers would get open.

Hmm... so one might make a reasonable argument that if OUR QB had all day to pick what receiver they were going to hit, we might also see a pretty good pass game? Oddly enough, our OL doesn't provide that, and it's not because we consistently line up against all-pro DL.

Purple Floyd
09-20-2011, 04:26 PM
Nope, if the OL was costing us games I would be on them. In this instance they are not.

I am much happier with the DE's efforts early this year as compared to early last year. However (coma), the DT play is lacking a bit when it comes to collapsing the pocket.

Go back, watch both QB's we've faced especially late in the game. They had all day long to pick what reciever they were going to hit. I don't care how good your secondary is, even if we had guys that were shutdown CB's, the recievers would get open.

Mix in our scheme were we leave holes and they will always find someone open.

I cannot use that particular angle because if I do, then it means the QB had time to make plays and didn't and then I would be labeled as a hater for saying the QB held any responsibility in the loss.

Marrdro
09-21-2011, 07:38 AM
I cannot use that particular angle because if I do, then it means the QB had time to make plays and didn't and then I would be labeled as a hater for saying the QB held any responsibility in the loss.
LOL, you crack me up.

In your defense, Dnabb made some terrible throws this weekend especially the deep ones. The one Berrian did get his hands on was behind him as well. Couple that went to Shanc/TE's were low.

Most dont' agree with me but I think he is still trying to get in synch with everyone.

Marrdro
09-21-2011, 07:42 AM
Hmm... so one might make a reasonable argument that if OUR QB had all day to pick what receiver they were going to hit, we might also see a pretty good pass game? Oddly enough, our OL doesn't provide that, and it's not because we consistently line up against all-pro DL.
I never said all day did I? Don't make it out like I'm saying our OL is great or anything. I'm just saying they are at or above average right now and not the reason we are loosing games.

Go back, watch the game. You will see Dnabb get to his second and third progressions and when he is moved from the pocket (except for once) in a bootleg, he is pretty much alone as the T and TE have sealed the end.

The one instance were I saw a major gaff was when they sent 2 blitzers through the "A" gap left. Hutch helped the T and Sully helped the G leaving AD to take on 2 blitzers. He got one, the other came free.

That is either a gaff on Sully for not seeing the blitz and shifting protection or a gaff on Dnabb for not seeing it and shifting protection. Because AD stayed and picked up the blitzer, I think they both messed up and read one blitzer and not two.

Blame the OL for things like that if you like, but in reality it wasn't the lines problem. It was a pre-snap read/adjustment problem.

Purple Floyd
09-21-2011, 10:16 AM
LOL, you crack me up.

In your defense, Dnabb made some terrible throws this weekend especially the deep ones. The one Berrian did get his hands on was behind him as well. Couple that went to Shanc/TE's were low.

Most dont' agree with me but I think he is still trying to get in synch with everyone.

He probably is and he probably will get better within the offense at some point, My whole point in the debate is that by the time that happens it isn't going to lead to a successful season anyway and since we are basically retraining him in this offense I would rather spend that time developing a player who will be giving us a return on that investment for hopefully a long time compared to the year or two we are getting now. In the end if he gets us even 2 more wins than one of the young guys all that will give us is a lower draft pick because we are not contending for a division title this year boys and girls. We are competing for draft position.

Marrdro
09-21-2011, 01:17 PM
He probably is and he probably will get better within the offense at some point, My whole point in the debate is that by the time that happens it isn't going to lead to a successful season anyway and since we are basically retraining him in this offense I would rather spend that time developing a player who will be giving us a return on that investment for hopefully a long time compared to the year or two we are getting now. In the end if he gets us even 2 more wins than one of the young guys all that will give us is a lower draft pick because we are not contending for a division title this year boys and girls. We are competing for draft position.
Don't forget, I spewed forth drivel early on, and some again today, touting that I believed Leslie when he said he was ready to with young Ponder this year. :)

tastywaves
09-21-2011, 02:21 PM
Don't forget, I spewed forth drivel early on, and some again today, touting that I believed Leslie when he said he was ready to with young Ponder this year. :)

I think it was more along the lines of, "If I have to start Ponder, we're ready to do it". At the time, there wasn't much competition for him on the team. Once McNabb was targeted, it was always for the starting job and I believe this is what Leslie wanted based on the expectations the front office was giving him.

Zeus
09-21-2011, 02:24 PM
I think it was more along the lines of, "If I have to start Ponder, we're ready to do it". At the time, there wasn't much competition for him on the team. Once McNabb was targeted, it was always for the starting job and I believe this is what Leslie wanted based on the expectations the front office was giving him.

You, dude, are one of the PPOers I'd most like to meet. Always with good points.

Salute!

=Z=

jmcdon00
09-21-2011, 02:34 PM
He probably is and he probably will get better within the offense at some point, My whole point in the debate is that by the time that happens it isn't going to lead to a successful season anyway and since we are basically retraining him in this offense I would rather spend that time developing a player who will be giving us a return on that investment for hopefully a long time compared to the year or two we are getting now. In the end if he gets us even 2 more wins than one of the young guys all that will give us is a lower draft pick because we are not contending for a division title this year boys and girls. We are competing for draft position.
So your saying the team should give up on the season after week 2? Or should they have given up before the season even began?

BloodyHorns82
09-21-2011, 02:49 PM
So your saying the team should give up on the season after week 2? Or should they have given up before the season even began?

Not until after week 2...maybe not even until after week 3.

Foolish to give up before the season even begins!

tastywaves
09-21-2011, 02:51 PM
So your saying the team should give up on the season after week 2? Or should they have given up before the season even began?

I think that's what it really comes down to....most coaches are out there trying to put the best product they can on the field in any given year based on the restrictions they are given. Mostly to keep their jobs for one more year. Frazier is being asked to win football games, not necessarily to build a dynasty, they'll worry about that next year :).

NFL owners have very little patience these days for rebuilding programs. Zygi tried it once, but he doesn't appear to have the stomach to try it again...yet.

tastywaves
09-21-2011, 02:54 PM
You, dude, are one of the PPOers I'd most like to meet. Always with good points.

Salute!

=Z=

Thanks, I'll get up there sooner or later. I tried to wrangle MN in my sales territory this year to get some free trips, but it looks like we will be hiring a local guy. He's a damned cheesehead at that.

Zeus
09-21-2011, 02:56 PM
Thanks, I'll get up there sooner or later. I tried to wrangle MN in my sales territory this year to get some free trips, but it looks like we will be hiring a local guy. He's a damned cheesehead at that.

You need to explain to management how that will go over around here.

=Z=

Zeus
09-21-2011, 02:57 PM
Not until after week 2...maybe not even until after week 3.

Foolish to give up before the season even begins!

Yeah! We're currently in a 7-way tie in the Andrew Luck Sweepstakes!

=Z=

tastywaves
09-21-2011, 03:01 PM
You need to explain to management how that will go over around here.

=Z=

I did, I told mgmt there was only one real negative on the guy, but it's kind of a deal breaker.

He pretends to follow the Vikes and care...but he's wearing green and gold in the dome.

marshallvike
09-21-2011, 04:31 PM
You need to explain to management how that will go over around here.

=Z=

Yeah. Judging by the local populations burning desire to build a stadium to keep the Vikings in Minnesota, he doesn't stand a chance of success.:D

ConnecticutViking
09-21-2011, 07:09 PM
We need to get more results from the draft. In 2009 we were a team that could win it all and we picked up Harvin and Loadholdt in the draft. Both players, contributed. Since then we have lost players via retirement, free agency, and injury. In the past two drafts we have not had any impact players and only Toby G. contributes. I'm not saying we had poor drafts, I am saying that we didn't get anyone who could help us now. I dont think the front office knows if we are building for the future or building to win now?

Zeus
09-21-2011, 07:57 PM
Yeah. Judging by the local populations burning desire to build a stadium to keep the Vikings in Minnesota, he doesn't stand a chance of success.:D

Smiley or not, that's complete horseshit. The local populace wants to keep the Vikings. The legislators are too afraid to vote on it, lest they lose an election because they voted to "raise taxes".

=Z=

Zeus
09-21-2011, 08:02 PM
We need to get more results from the draft. In 2009 we were a team that could win it all and we picked up Harvin and Loadholdt in the draft. Both players, contributed. Since then we have lost players via retirement, free agency, and injury. In the past two drafts we have not had any impact players and only Toby G. contributes. I'm not saying we had poor drafts, I am saying that we didn't get anyone who could help us now. I dont think the front office knows if we are building for the future or building to win now?

Define "contribute", please.

Kyle Rudolph had a catch against TB and was also a blocker on several of AD's quality runs. That's a contribution, is it not?

Jamarca Sanford started at safety and two tackles for loss (I believe) against TB - also a contribution, by my reckoning.

Christian Ballard had a tackle as, what, the 7th DL in the rotation on Sunday. Isn't that a contribution?

Everson Griffen had a sack on Sunday. Isn't that a contribution?

What drafted player were you expecting to supplant an existing starter and "contribute"?

=Z=

ConnecticutViking
09-22-2011, 12:33 PM
I guess I meant impact players, but maybe none were avaialble?

BloodyHorns82
09-22-2011, 12:39 PM
Smiley or not, that's complete horseshit. The local populace wants to keep the Vikings. The legislators are too afraid to vote on it, lest they lose an election because they voted to "raise taxes".

=Z=

Not really. If put up for a referendum the stadium deal would be overwhelmingly shot down. Sure the locals want to keep the Vikings, but not if it means having to pay an extra **$10-$50 a year in taxes to do so. People of MN deserved to be ripped for this issue. It's embarrassing and it's 100% political.

Honestly, the legislators have good reason to be too afraid to vote on it. A 'yes' vote by them probably means they aren't back in office the next year.

**Random numbers pulled from butt.

Zeus
09-22-2011, 12:49 PM
Not really. If put up for a referendum the stadium deal would be overwhelmingly shot down. Sure the locals want to keep the Vikings, but not if it means having to pay an extra **$10-$50 a year in taxes to do so. People of MN deserved to be ripped for this issue. It's embarrassing and it's 100% political.

Honestly, the legislators have good reason to be too afraid to vote on it. A 'yes' vote by them probably means they aren't back in office the next year.

**Random numbers pulled from butt.

If you put a referendum to raise taxes $.00001 cent on every $100 or puppies will be killed on live TV every night at 6:52pm, people would vote No.

A referendum to raise taxes is a loser, and the cowardly legislators know it.

=Z=

BloodyHorns82
09-22-2011, 01:16 PM
Smiley or not, that's complete horseshit. The local populace wants to keep the Vikings. The legislators are too afraid to vote on it, lest they lose an election because they voted to "raise taxes".

=Z=


If you put a referendum to raise taxes $.00001 cent on every $100 or puppies will be killed on live TV every night at 6:52pm, people would vote No.

A referendum to raise taxes is a loser, and the cowardly legislators know it.

=Z=

I agree, but my point was simply that while yes, the general populous of Minnesota want the Vikings to stay, they don't want them to stay badly enough that they'd sacrifice as much as a penny to keep them here. It's all about politics for many people.

marshallvike
09-22-2011, 04:01 PM
Smiley or not, that's complete horseshit. The local populace wants to keep the Vikings. The legislators are too afraid to vote on it, lest they lose an election because they voted to "raise taxes".

=Z=
Relax Big Z. It was a joke. Can't a guy have a little fun around here?

Caine
09-22-2011, 09:31 PM
Fire Mark Wilf...that's a start.

Hire a GM - tell Zygi to sit in the owner's box and spectate.

Find Receiving help that weren't former Eagles.

Find an OC with a track record of at least modest success...not one with a history of total failure.

That's where I'd start.

Caine

Marrdro
09-23-2011, 08:47 AM
I think it was more along the lines of, "If I have to start Ponder, we're ready to do it". At the time, there wasn't much competition for him on the team. Once McNabb was targeted, it was always for the starting job and I believe this is what Leslie wanted based on the expectations the front office was giving him.
Good stuff, but lets not forget, Dnabb was not the first option, heck he wasn't even the second option.

Someone wanted Orton and Thygpen in that order before Dnabb became a reality.

Marrdro
09-23-2011, 08:48 AM
Fire Mark Wilf...that's a start.

Hire a GM - tell Zygi to sit in the owner's box and spectate.

Find Receiving help that weren't former Eagles.

Find an OC with a track record of at least modest success...not one with a history of total failure.

That's where I'd start.

Caine
I can live with that plan as long as a 0 tech DT comes before the WR's do.

Purple Floyd
09-25-2011, 09:03 PM
I guess at this point it depends on whether you want to win games or go for the highest possible draft pick.

If you want wins I would push McNabb back to the 3rd spot. I would put Ponder in at QB and I would make a call to Randy Moss and get his old ass in here right after Berrians locker is cleaned and disinfected.

Randy would still be far better than anything else we have, he would open up the field for Harvin and Jenkins and give Ponder something to throw to.

I would look for any DB to bring in and compete for a roster spot and go from there.

I would then hire a GM and let them run the ship.

Mr Anderson
09-27-2011, 11:43 AM
I'm not going to go with any kind of personnel changes. I'd simply have Musgrave script our first 20 plays of the second half.

We have success out of the gate, I assume(as most teams do) we script our first 15-25 plays of the game.

Why not give that a try in the second half too? Rather than call plays based on what the defense has been showing us --which we clearly cannot do-- we just stick to the script. Of course if there are obvious issues, like heavy pressure, we can change what kind of packages or protections we use, but still run similar plays.

If we're going to fall apart in the second half anyway, it really can't hurt to try.

I'd also like to stay a little more aggressive in coverage. Pettigrew killed us on Sunday. Get someone on him in man, or move the safeties up closer to the line of scrimmage. They weren't really helping over the top with Megatron, so there's no reason for Pettigrew to be wide open between our backers and them.

jmcdon00
09-27-2011, 12:54 PM
Good stuff, but lets not forget, Dnabb was not the first option, heck he wasn't even the second option.

Someone wanted Orton and Thygpen in that order before Dnabb became a reality.
Also remember that Ponder was not a first, second, or third option. They wanted Came Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert but settled for Ponder.

HEY
09-27-2011, 01:11 PM
Also remember that Ponder was not a first, second, or third option. They wanted Came Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert but settled for Ponder.
They never said that. You are just reading between the lines and that doesn't make it a fact.

Zeus
09-28-2011, 06:05 PM
Someone wanted Orton and Thygpen in that order before Dnabb became a reality.

Way to take credit for someone else's idea.

I was the first one on PPO to say "Orton".

=Z=

jargomcfargo
10-17-2011, 11:41 AM
Move 'em.

El Vikingo
10-17-2011, 11:43 AM
move 'em.

blv?