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MulletMullitia
09-05-2011, 11:48 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/05/christian-ponder-will-be-the-backup-in-minnesota/


Joe Webb appeared to outplay Vikings rookie quarterback Christian Ponder in the preseason, but it looks like the No. 12 overall pick (Ponder) will have the backup job in the regular season.

“I think that’s definitely big,” said Ponder, who learned of the decision from reporters. “Obviously, [everyone knew] coming in that it was crucial for me to secure that number two spot. Now, it’s my job to keep it and keep progressing.”

Coach Leslie Frazier was asked if Vikings want to get Webb on the field.

“We do. He’s a tremendous talent. So, we’re exploring some options, and it’s just a matter of whether we want to do it now or two weeks from now, three weeks from now, but we want to utilize his gifts,” Frazier said via Tom Pelissero of espn1500.com.

i_bleed_purple
09-05-2011, 11:54 PM
Makes sense. They'll want to get Ponder learning as quickly as possible, so this means he gets second team reps in practice.
However, if DNabb goes down, will be interesting to see if they actually do put Ponder in, or give Webb a go?

midgensa
09-06-2011, 12:16 AM
Right on the head IBP. I think it becomes a real issue if McNabb goes down. But for now, they are going this way because it does not really matter ... yet.

battleaxe4cheese
09-06-2011, 12:32 AM
Kind of misleading in the sense that in the end the best and most productive qb wins. Right now is just a formality to assign a number to a player who may or may not live up to it or in fact may rise to numero uno.

carta4eva
09-06-2011, 12:46 AM
I really hope this means they will be figuring out creative ways in utilizing Joe Webb's athleticism on Sundays... get him a few bubble screens, let him return Kickoffs, anything to let that 4.4 speed shine on the field

Purple Floyd
09-06-2011, 12:57 AM
No new news here. They are giving Ponder developmental reps with that move and also keeping the option of using Webb in certain situations in the scheme at different positions while Ponder holds the clip board.

i_bleed_purple
09-06-2011, 01:17 AM
Anothe rinteresting point.

Since the 3rd QB can now be used anytime, do you think Webb might have been #2 if not for that rule change?

They want to use him, but if you have him #3, he's not able to be subbed in during a game unless the first two get hurt.

seaniemck7
09-06-2011, 04:17 AM
Anothe rinteresting point.

Since the 3rd QB can now be used anytime, do you think Webb might have been #2 if not for that rule change?

They want to use him, but if you have him #3, he's not able to be subbed in during a game unless the first two get hurt.

The rule change makes it almost a non-issue. I do think Webb would have been named #2 to start the season without that change. To me, naming Ponder the second stringer is more of a PR move than an overall football decision.

For clarity, the old rule did not prevent the 3rd QB from coming in, but rather the return of QB1 and 2. If the 3rd QB came into the game prior to the 4th quarter, QBs 1 and 2 were uneligible to come back into the game.

singersp
09-06-2011, 10:49 AM
Makes sense. They'll want to get Ponder learning as quickly as possible, so this means he gets second team reps in practice.
However, if DNabb goes down, will be interesting to see if they actually do put Ponder in, or give Webb a go?


Right on the head IBP. I think it becomes a real issue if McNabb goes down. But for now, they are going this way because it does not really matter ... yet.

I agree as well. With the new rule in place this year it really didn't matter who was named 2nd or 3rd.

I do feel though it's more mentally beneficial for Ponder if he is given the back up nod. It should also boost his confidence whereas had he been named 3rd string it could have had a negative mental impact.

NodakPaul
09-06-2011, 02:17 PM
I was expecting to see people come out in true PP.O style and start arguing over who "deserved" the #2 spot because one or the other "clearly outplayed" the other in preseason, yada yada yada.

I was pleasantly surprised to see that most people here see it for what it is - a developmental move for Ponder.

Zeus
09-06-2011, 02:20 PM
I was expecting to see people come out in true PP.O style and start arguing over who "deserved" the #2 spot because one or the other "clearly outplayed" the other in preseason, yada yada yada.

I was pleasantly surprised to see that most people here see it for what it is - a developmental move for Ponder.

He'll get more reps in practice - that's what he needs.

Plus - with the demise of the "3rd QB" rule, they can have all three active on gameday and be able to play Webb in some of those Wildcat scenarios where I think he'll be rather effective.

=Z=

Marrdro
09-06-2011, 02:22 PM
If in fact Webb is gonna be used as a WR/Gadget Play guy, it also allows him time away from the QB positional workouts to focus on those.

On a side note, I still don't like using Joe for plays like that. Dnabb hasn't shown that he can stay healthy for a full season, why risk either your next selection to replace him or even the backup to Ponder if Dnabb goes down for some gadget play?

Zeus
09-06-2011, 02:45 PM
If in fact Webb is gonna be used as a WR/Gadget Play guy, it also allows him time away from the QB positional workouts to focus on those.

On a side note, I still don't like using Joe for plays like that. Dnabb hasn't shown that he can stay healthy for a full season, why risk either your next selection to replace him or even the backup to Ponder if Dnabb goes down for some gadget play?

I'm not sure, but I think it's probably to win football games.

=Z=

Marrdro
09-06-2011, 02:47 PM
If in fact Webb is gonna be used as a WR/Gadget Play guy, it also allows him time away from the QB positional workouts to focus on those.

On a side note, I still don't like using Joe for plays like that. Dnabb hasn't shown that he can stay healthy for a full season, why risk either your next selection to replace him or even the backup to Ponder if Dnabb goes down for some gadget play?

I'm not sure, but I think it's probably to win football games.

=Z=
I hear ya, but did you see how many teams actually ran those last year. My guess, it will even be less this year which equates to very few game wins.

Zeus
09-06-2011, 02:54 PM
If in fact Webb is gonna be used as a WR/Gadget Play guy, it also allows him time away from the QB positional workouts to focus on those.

On a side note, I still don't like using Joe for plays like that. Dnabb hasn't shown that he can stay healthy for a full season, why risk either your next selection to replace him or even the backup to Ponder if Dnabb goes down for some gadget play?

I'm not sure, but I think it's probably to win football games.

I hear ya, but did you see how many teams actually ran those last year. My guess, it will even be less this year which equates to very few game wins.

Running the Wildcat with someone who is actually a threat to throw is a bit different than a RB tossing up a prayer.

Perhaps Wildcat is the wrong terminology. Joe Webb is a definite running option at QB. But he can also pass and knows the offense. Can you imagine how defenses would pee themselves if Webb and Harvin lined up in the backfield together?

=Z=

Marrdro
09-06-2011, 03:04 PM
If in fact Webb is gonna be used as a WR/Gadget Play guy, it also allows him time away from the QB positional workouts to focus on those.

On a side note, I still don't like using Joe for plays like that. Dnabb hasn't shown that he can stay healthy for a full season, why risk either your next selection to replace him or even the backup to Ponder if Dnabb goes down for some gadget play?

I'm not sure, but I think it's probably to win football games.

I hear ya, but did you see how many teams actually ran those last year. My guess, it will even be less this year which equates to very few game wins.

Running the Wildcat with someone who is actually a threat to throw is a bit different than a RB tossing up a prayer.

Perhaps Wildcat is the wrong terminology. Joe Webb is a definite running option at QB. But he can also pass and knows the offense. Can you imagine how defenses would pee themselves if Webb and Harvin lined up in the backfield together?

=Z=
Excellent point on the difference between a RB and a QB running it.

If I was a D-coord, I would worry about it (the deep throw from Webb) but not as much as I would from a starting QB, mostly cause if Webb could throw the ball that consistently, he wouldn't be a backup. He would be the starter.

By the way, its an OK term. Wildcat/Gadget kindof equate to me as the same.

jmcdon00
09-06-2011, 03:06 PM
If in fact Webb is gonna be used as a WR/Gadget Play guy, it also allows him time away from the QB positional workouts to focus on those.

On a side note, I still don't like using Joe for plays like that. Dnabb hasn't shown that he can stay healthy for a full season, why risk either your next selection to replace him or even the backup to Ponder if Dnabb goes down for some gadget play?

I'm not sure, but I think it's probably to win football games.

I hear ya, but did you see how many teams actually ran those last year. My guess, it will even be less this year which equates to very few game wins.

Running the Wildcat with someone who is actually a threat to throw is a bit different than a RB tossing up a prayer.

Perhaps Wildcat is the wrong terminology. Joe Webb is a definite running option at QB. But he can also pass and knows the offense. Can you imagine how defenses would pee themselves if Webb and Harvin lined up in the backfield together?

=Z=
Frazier talked about it on Vikings weekly. I think they are calling it the Blazer formation, or blazer offense. (referencing Joe Webb's college team).

I think Webb would really be a triple threat, run, pass, catch. I think they are going to work really hard to get Webb involved.

Marrdro
09-06-2011, 03:30 PM
Frazier talked about it on Vikings weekly. I think they are calling it the Blazer formation, or blazer offense. (referencing Joe Webb's college team).

I think Webb would really be a triple threat, run, pass, catch. I think they are going to work really hard to get Webb involved.
Interesting. Never heard it called that yet.

I like that they want to get him involved, but I sure hope they don't get him hurt.

I think he is more important to the team as it relates to QB play vice the "Blazer Formation".

jmcdon00
09-06-2011, 03:43 PM
Frazier talked about it on Vikings weekly. I think they are calling it the Blazer formation, or blazer offense. (referencing Joe Webb's college team).

I think Webb would really be a triple threat, run, pass, catch. I think they are going to work really hard to get Webb involved.
Interesting. Never heard it called that yet.

I like that they want to get him involved, but I sure hope they don't get him hurt.

I think he is more important to the team as it relates to QB play vice the "Blazer Formation".
If he can't run a play or two a game without getting hurt he will never be a reliable QB.
Frazier said in no uncertain terms that Webb will be used in a wildcat like role this year, adding more plays as the season goes along(I think the shortened offseason probably hurt Webb's role in the offense a bit).

Marrdro
09-06-2011, 03:50 PM
Frazier talked about it on Vikings weekly. I think they are calling it the Blazer formation, or blazer offense. (referencing Joe Webb's college team).

I think Webb would really be a triple threat, run, pass, catch. I think they are going to work really hard to get Webb involved.
Interesting. Never heard it called that yet.

I like that they want to get him involved, but I sure hope they don't get him hurt.

I think he is more important to the team as it relates to QB play vice the "Blazer Formation".
If he can't run a play or two a game without getting hurt he will never be a reliable QB.
Frazier said in no uncertain terms that Webb will be used in a wildcat like role this year, adding more plays as the season goes along(I think the shortened offseason probably hurt Webb's role in the offense a bit).
As usual, good stuff. Your probably right on the possible risk to injury.

Your last comment kindof perks my interest. I never thought of that aspect.....Are you saying it hurt his more than Ponders?

Truth be told, I would have thought that Joes one year in a NFL Level WCO would have given him the leg up on the new scheme over Ponder.

Zeus
09-06-2011, 04:01 PM
Frazier talked about it on Vikings weekly. I think they are calling it the Blazer formation, or blazer offense. (referencing Joe Webb's college team).

I think Webb would really be a triple threat, run, pass, catch. I think they are going to work really hard to get Webb involved.
Interesting. Never heard it called that yet.

I like that they want to get him involved, but I sure hope they don't get him hurt.

I think he is more important to the team as it relates to QB play vice the "Blazer Formation".
If he can't run a play or two a game without getting hurt he will never be a reliable QB.
Frazier said in no uncertain terms that Webb will be used in a wildcat like role this year, adding more plays as the season goes along(I think the shortened offseason probably hurt Webb's role in the offense a bit).
As usual, good stuff. Your probably right on the possible risk to injury.

Your last comment kindof perks my interest. I never thought of that aspect.....Are you saying it hurt his more than Ponders?

Truth be told, I would have thought that Joes one year in a NFL Level WCO would have given him the leg up on the new scheme over Ponder.

I think he's getting at that it would have been easier for Musgrave to institute a fuller set of Webb-only plays if he'd had the full off-season to work with him.

I really like this move - you get Ponder the reps in practice as the #2, while giving Webb the opportunity to see the field on game days. Both progress, albeit at different paces.

=Z=

Marrdro
09-06-2011, 04:20 PM
Frazier talked about it on Vikings weekly. I think they are calling it the Blazer formation, or blazer offense. (referencing Joe Webb's college team).

I think Webb would really be a triple threat, run, pass, catch. I think they are going to work really hard to get Webb involved.
Interesting. Never heard it called that yet.

I like that they want to get him involved, but I sure hope they don't get him hurt.

I think he is more important to the team as it relates to QB play vice the "Blazer Formation".
If he can't run a play or two a game without getting hurt he will never be a reliable QB.
Frazier said in no uncertain terms that Webb will be used in a wildcat like role this year, adding more plays as the season goes along(I think the shortened offseason probably hurt Webb's role in the offense a bit).
As usual, good stuff. Your probably right on the possible risk to injury.

Your last comment kindof perks my interest. I never thought of that aspect.....Are you saying it hurt his more than Ponders?

Truth be told, I would have thought that Joes one year in a NFL Level WCO would have given him the leg up on the new scheme over Ponder.

I think he's getting at that it would have been easier for Musgrave to institute a fuller set of Webb-only plays if he'd had the full off-season to work with him.

I really like this move - you get Ponder the reps in practice as the #2, while giving Webb the opportunity to see the field on game days. Both progress, albeit at different paces.

=Z=
Awwww, I thought he was going down the discussion point of being a QB in the scheme.

jmcdon00
09-06-2011, 04:46 PM
Frazier talked about it on Vikings weekly. I think they are calling it the Blazer formation, or blazer offense. (referencing Joe Webb's college team).

I think Webb would really be a triple threat, run, pass, catch. I think they are going to work really hard to get Webb involved.
Interesting. Never heard it called that yet.

I like that they want to get him involved, but I sure hope they don't get him hurt.

I think he is more important to the team as it relates to QB play vice the "Blazer Formation".
If he can't run a play or two a game without getting hurt he will never be a reliable QB.
Frazier said in no uncertain terms that Webb will be used in a wildcat like role this year, adding more plays as the season goes along(I think the shortened offseason probably hurt Webb's role in the offense a bit).
As usual, good stuff. Your probably right on the possible risk to injury.

Your last comment kindof perks my interest. I never thought of that aspect.....Are you saying it hurt his more than Ponders?

Truth be told, I would have thought that Joes one year in a NFL Level WCO would have given him the leg up on the new scheme over Ponder.
It's not Webb's development that is going to limit his role, it is the the development of the playbook. With the limited time available the coaches have to focus on the basics of the playbook, with less time available to work on a few plays just for Webb. From what I've read teams that put in a wildcat package have to commit a lot of practice time to it.
I can't find the video of Frazier talking about the Blazer offense, but I'll keep looking.

Marrdro
09-06-2011, 04:59 PM
Frazier talked about it on Vikings weekly. I think they are calling it the Blazer formation, or blazer offense. (referencing Joe Webb's college team).

I think Webb would really be a triple threat, run, pass, catch. I think they are going to work really hard to get Webb involved.
Interesting. Never heard it called that yet.

I like that they want to get him involved, but I sure hope they don't get him hurt.

I think he is more important to the team as it relates to QB play vice the "Blazer Formation".
If he can't run a play or two a game without getting hurt he will never be a reliable QB.
Frazier said in no uncertain terms that Webb will be used in a wildcat like role this year, adding more plays as the season goes along(I think the shortened offseason probably hurt Webb's role in the offense a bit).
As usual, good stuff. Your probably right on the possible risk to injury.

Your last comment kindof perks my interest. I never thought of that aspect.....Are you saying it hurt his more than Ponders?

Truth be told, I would have thought that Joes one year in a NFL Level WCO would have given him the leg up on the new scheme over Ponder.
It's not Webb's development that is going to limit his role, it is the the development of the playbook. With the limited time available the coaches have to focus on the basics of the playbook, with less time available to work on a few plays just for Webb. From what I've read teams that put in a wildcat package have to commit a lot of practice time to it.
I can't find the video of Frazier talking about the Blazer offense, but I'll keep looking.
No need to find it. Topic is interesting enough without it.

I think I'm tracking with what your saying now, but you don't mean the staffs development of the playbook, but rather the players learning the aspects of it.

The lockout shouldn't have hurt the staff from working what they wanted to run when it came to plays of this nature. Maybe there might have been questions about who they might have to run (especially considering they had Webb under contrac) them, but I think they could've still developed them.

Again, very interesting stuff.