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singersp
08-07-2011, 03:20 PM
NFL speed throws rookie QB Christian Ponder for a loop

Vikings coach Leslie Frazier saw a day like this coming for Christian Ponder, the rookie quarterback who threw two interceptions in situational drills after a few positive performances

http://www.twincities.com/ci_18627094?source=most_viewed

singersp
08-07-2011, 03:26 PM
"It's called being a rookie in the National Football League," Frazier said.


Ponder's biggest adjustment is the speed of the game, he said. Starter Donovan McNabb is helping him with that process.

"He gives me tips every day," he said.

And this is why signing a saavy veteran QB to start & for Ponder to sit a year & learn from that veteran is so vitally important to his success.

Starting Ponder would have been a mistake & had we went that route he'd be learning from Webb, who is learning himself or learning from Bomar, who has yet to take a snap in a NFL game.

i_bleed_purple
08-07-2011, 03:28 PM
Funny, could have sworn Marrdro said Ponder would be ready, because 'he's a smart cat', and because he has the playbook.

I was also convinced that a veteran QB would have no positive effect on Ponder. He CERTAINLY wouldn't be "Helping" Ponder learn the game....

that's just crazy talk!

jessejames09
08-07-2011, 04:44 PM
Funny, could have sworn Marrdro said Ponder would be ready, because 'he's a smart cat', and because he has the playbook.

I was also convinced that a veteran QB would have no positive effect on Ponder. He CERTAINLY wouldn't be "Helping" Ponder learn the game....

that's just crazy talk!

Ready to play, is a lot different from ready to step in and put this team on his shoulders. Peyton Manning set the interceptions in a season record his rookie year. He wasn't really ready was he?

I would say Ponder is in the situation any 1st round QB should be in, ready to step in and learn. Who knows how Peyton's career would have turned out if he wasn't allowed time to overcome that steep learning curve in year one.

I really think we should be trying, as hard as we can, to develop our QB of the future as opposed to playing another year with a Band-Aid QB that we know will get soggy and fall off.

singersp
08-07-2011, 05:10 PM
Did someone compare Ponder, who has trouble throwing the long ball, to Peyton Manning? :P

Manning was projeted to be a top pick in the 1998 draft. Ponder was projected to go mid 2nd round. Picking him in the 1st doesn't change that.

Manning BTW, had the benefit of a full offseason, meaning, the full allotment of mini camps, ota's, training camp & preseason working & geling with his team.

Ponder has had nothing but a little bonding with a few players prior to TC. Lets also not forget that training camp prior to just 3 days ago existed only for those players who were already signed.

Do you believe Ponder or even Peyton Manning in his rookie year for that matter, would be ready to start after 8-9 practices with the team?

Freakout
08-07-2011, 05:34 PM
This offseason made it nearly impossible for a rookie to start this year. No OTA's, mini-camps, etc... really puts a rookie QB way behind.

i_bleed_purple
08-07-2011, 05:40 PM
Funny, could have sworn Marrdro said Ponder would be ready, because 'he's a smart cat', and because he has the playbook.

I was also convinced that a veteran QB would have no positive effect on Ponder. He CERTAINLY wouldn't be "Helping" Ponder learn the game....

that's just crazy talk!

Ready to play, is a lot different from ready to step in and put this team on his shoulders. Peyton Manning set the interceptions in a season record his rookie year. He wasn't really ready was he?

I would say Ponder is in the situation any 1st round QB should be in, ready to step in and learn. Who knows how Peyton's career would have turned out if he wasn't allowed time to overcome that steep learning curve in year one.

I really think we should be trying, as hard as we can, to develop our QB of the future as opposed to playing another year with a Band-Aid QB that we know will get soggy and fall off.

Absolutely not.

The thing is, Manning came to an all-around awful team. We are a far better situation for a QB than the 98 colts were. How much of his poor play was attributed to a crap line, crap receivers and crap run game? Can't say, but I'd bet alot.

Having said that, I am never a fan of sticking a second round rookie QB in day 1, and hoping he pans out. He'll get kille dout there, confidence takes a hit, and progression slows. I'd far rather he sit a year or two, watch a good vet run the show then take over.

The thing about McNabb that is different than any other Vet QB we've had lately, is that we have a potential franchise QB behind McNabb. Before, we just signed old band-aid QBs for the sake of having them. We had no real prospect.

If McNabb doesn't work out, we have someone to turn to. If Favre didn't work out, we really had nobody going forward.

jessejames09
08-07-2011, 05:51 PM
Someones gotta be the next great QB. Why not Ponder? Brees and Brady don't have unreal arm strength, yet they're in that same tier...

Picking someone in the first does change your expectations, a QB drafted in the first round is usually someone the team looks to make the starter after year one, if not earlier.

McNabb is a one year band aid, nothing more, nothing less. We're just as unlikely to win a Superbowl with McNabb this year as we are with Ponder (0.005% chance.) So why not let the one were trying to develop actually develop.

Ponder missed rookie camp, mini camp and OTAs. Now he's a year behind in his development? I'd say he's a few weeks behind at most. So instead of week 1 I'd expect to see Ponder week 6 at the latest.

So yeah. He will be ready to go this year, and if he's not he should be thrown in anyways so he's ready to go next year.

What we shouldn't do is try to scrape by with McNabb for 16 games, release him at seasons end and need another veteran next year, just in case Ponder isn't ready, yet again. It will be TJ all over again. Give the kid a shot.

I guess we're the Vikings though, and there is something to be said about our perpetual loop of washed up 'safe option' veterans.

jessejames09
08-07-2011, 05:56 PM
Funny, could have sworn Marrdro said Ponder would be ready, because 'he's a smart cat', and because he has the playbook.

I was also convinced that a veteran QB would have no positive effect on Ponder. He CERTAINLY wouldn't be "Helping" Ponder learn the game....

that's just crazy talk!

Ready to play, is a lot different from ready to step in and put this team on his shoulders. Peyton Manning set the interceptions in a season record his rookie year. He wasn't really ready was he?

I would say Ponder is in the situation any 1st round QB should be in, ready to step in and learn. Who knows how Peyton's career would have turned out if he wasn't allowed time to overcome that steep learning curve in year one.

I really think we should be trying, as hard as we can, to develop our QB of the future as opposed to playing another year with a Band-Aid QB that we know will get soggy and fall off.

The thing is, Manning came to an all-around awful team. We are a far better situation for a QB than the 98 colts were. How much of his poor play was attributed to a crap line, crap receivers and crap run game?

Marshall Faulk was inducted into the Pro Football HOF last night.

Sorry I had to.

i_bleed_purple
08-07-2011, 06:12 PM
Someones gotta be the next great QB. Why not Ponder? Brees and Brady don't have unreal arm strength, yet they're in that same tier...

Picking someone in the first does change your expectations, a QB drafted in the first round is usually someone the team looks to make the starter after year one, if not earlier.

If we picked Tarvaris Jackson in the first, does that mean he'd be ready to go?

No. Simply picking a guy early doesn't mean he's NFL ready on day 1. Ponder was graded as probably the fourth or fifth best QB in the draft. We reached for him, plain and simple. Just because we did that does not mean I expect he'll be ready day 1. There's nothing wrong with sitting your first round QB for a year or two. Hell, Eli and Rivers, both top-3 picks sat for at least a full season before they got their shot. Both were picked as better QBs than Ponder was.


McNabb is a one year band aid, nothing more, nothing less. We're just as unlikely to win a Superbowl with McNabb this year as we are with Ponder (0.005% chance.) So why not let the one were trying to develop actually develop.
He can develop. On the bench. Throwing him to the wolves won't accomplish anything. If there's such a small chance of him winning, then why risk damaging him? Let McNabb take the hits, guide us to 8-8, then next season Ponder can come in and woo everyone.


Ponder missed rookie camp, mini camp and OTAs. Now he's a year behind in his development? I'd say he's a few weeks behind at most. So instead of week 1 I'd expect to see Ponder week 6 at the latest.

Few weeks? Draft was in April. He missed all of May, June and July. That's 3 months of minicamps, meetings, workouts, OTAs, etc. Things that are especially important for rookies to get in sync with their teammates, get ready for the NFL, meet their coaches, learn the scheme, etc. Ponder was able to do NONE of those things. He's far more than a couple weeks behind.



So yeah. He will be ready to go this year, and if he's not he should be thrown in anyways so he's ready to go next year.

The logic in that statement simply does not work.


What we shouldn't do is try to scrape by with McNabb for 16 games, release him at seasons end and need another veteran next year, just in case Ponder isn't ready, yet again. It will be TJ all over again. Give the kid a shot.

Why would we need another vet next season?

You really can't go wrong in this situation. McNabb starts this season, if he lights it up and wins a superbowl, Fantastic. He can play next year too in that case. If he plays well, we make playoffs, have a good run, great. If he sucks, then we live with it, Ponder learns some things from a full season of practice, workouts and meetings, then is ready to take over next season. If he gets hurt, then we put in Ponder and see if he is actually ready to go.

With McNabb starting at the tail end of his career, we keep our future QB injury-free (as it will inevitably happen behind our line) and able to learn the proper way.

i_bleed_purple
08-07-2011, 06:13 PM
Funny, could have sworn Marrdro said Ponder would be ready, because 'he's a smart cat', and because he has the playbook.

I was also convinced that a veteran QB would have no positive effect on Ponder. He CERTAINLY wouldn't be "Helping" Ponder learn the game....

that's just crazy talk!

Ready to play, is a lot different from ready to step in and put this team on his shoulders. Peyton Manning set the interceptions in a season record his rookie year. He wasn't really ready was he?

I would say Ponder is in the situation any 1st round QB should be in, ready to step in and learn. Who knows how Peyton's career would have turned out if he wasn't allowed time to overcome that steep learning curve in year one.

I really think we should be trying, as hard as we can, to develop our QB of the future as opposed to playing another year with a Band-Aid QB that we know will get soggy and fall off.

The thing is, Manning came to an all-around awful team. We are a far better situation for a QB than the 98 colts were. How much of his poor play was attributed to a crap line, crap receivers and crap run game?

Marshall Faulk was inducted into the Pro Football HOF last night.

Sorry I had to.

Good point, for whatever reason that slipped my mind. Everything else about that eam sucked. They were #1 overall pick for a reason.

Purple Floyd
08-07-2011, 06:18 PM
Funny, could have sworn Marrdro said Ponder would be ready, because 'he's a smart cat', and because he has the playbook.

I was also convinced that a veteran QB would have no positive effect on Ponder. He CERTAINLY wouldn't be "Helping" Ponder learn the game....

that's just crazy talk!

Ready to play, is a lot different from ready to step in and put this team on his shoulders. Peyton Manning set the interceptions in a season record his rookie year. He wasn't really ready was he?

I would say Ponder is in the situation any 1st round QB should be in, ready to step in and learn. Who knows how Peyton's career would have turned out if he wasn't allowed time to overcome that steep learning curve in year one.

I really think we should be trying, as hard as we can, to develop our QB of the future as opposed to playing another year with a Band-Aid QB that we know will get soggy and fall off.

The thing is, Manning came to an all-around awful team. We are a far better situation for a QB than the 98 colts were. How much of his poor play was attributed to a crap line, crap receivers and crap run game?

Marshall Faulk was inducted into the Pro Football HOF last night.

Sorry I had to.

Good point, for whatever reason that slipped my mind. Everything else about that eam sucked. They were #1 overall pick for a reason.

Even though they had Faulk they were terrible team. You don't get the first pick in the draft because you had an abundance of talent on your roster.

Purple Floyd
08-07-2011, 06:42 PM
And this is why signing a saavy veteran QB to start & for Ponder to sit a year & learn from that veteran is so vitally important to his success.

I am not sure McNabb is what I would want in a mentor for a QB. His mechanics are terrible and he has no desire to change them. He is also very lethargic in practice IMHO. Webb, OTOH was right up front and ready to go all of the time, plus he was interacting with the WR's and showing leadership.

Marty would say( and I agree) that the QB coach and not some washed up vet, should be all a rookie QB needs to develop.




Starting Ponder would have been a mistake & had we went that route he'd be learning from Webb, who is learning himself or learning from Bomar, who has yet to take a snap in a NFL game.

Quick question- Who was the experienced vet that Matt Ryan learned behind when Musgrave was developing him in Atlanta?

i_bleed_purple
08-07-2011, 06:53 PM
Quick question- Who was the experienced vet that Matt Ryan learned behind when Musgrave was developing him in Atlanta?

How did Philip Rivers first season as a Charger work out for him?

jessejames09
08-07-2011, 06:54 PM
Someones gotta be the next great QB. Why not Ponder? Brees and Brady don't have unreal arm strength, yet they're in that same tier...

Picking someone in the first does change your expectations, a QB drafted in the first round is usually someone the team looks to make the starter after year one, if not earlier.

If we picked Tarvaris Jackson in the first, does that mean he'd be ready to go?

No. Simply picking a guy early doesn't mean he's NFL ready on day 1. Ponder was graded as probably the fourth or fifth best QB in the draft. We reached for him, plain and simple. Just because we did that does not mean I expect he'll be ready day 1. There's nothing wrong with sitting your first round QB for a year or two. Hell, Eli and Rivers, both top-3 picks sat for at least a full season before they got their shot. Both were picked as better QBs than Ponder was.


McNabb is a one year band aid, nothing more, nothing less. We're just as unlikely to win a Superbowl with McNabb this year as we are with Ponder (0.005% chance.) So why not let the one were trying to develop actually develop.
He can develop. On the bench. Throwing him to the wolves won't accomplish anything. If there's such a small chance of him winning, then why risk damaging him? Let McNabb take the hits, guide us to 8-8, then next season Ponder can come in and woo everyone.


Ponder missed rookie camp, mini camp and OTAs. Now he's a year behind in his development? I'd say he's a few weeks behind at most. So instead of week 1 I'd expect to see Ponder week 6 at the latest.

Few weeks? Draft was in April. He missed all of May, June and July. That's 3 months of minicamps, meetings, workouts, OTAs, etc. Things that are especially important for rookies to get in sync with their teammates, get ready for the NFL, meet their coaches, learn the scheme, etc. Ponder was able to do NONE of those things. He's far more than a couple weeks behind.



So yeah. He will be ready to go this year, and if he's not he should be thrown in anyways so he's ready to go next year.

The logic in that statement simply does not work.


What we shouldn't do is try to scrape by with McNabb for 16 games, release him at seasons end and need another veteran next year, just in case Ponder isn't ready, yet again. It will be TJ all over again. Give the kid a shot.

Why would we need another vet next season?

You really can't go wrong in this situation. McNabb starts this season, if he lights it up and wins a superbowl, Fantastic. He can play next year too in that case. If he plays well, we make playoffs, have a good run, great. If he sucks, then we live with it, Ponder learns some things from a full season of practice, workouts and meetings, then is ready to take over next season. If he gets hurt, then we put in Ponder and see if he is actually ready to go.

With McNabb starting at the tail end of his career, we keep our future QB injury-free (as it will inevitably happen behind our line) and able to learn the proper way.


If we picked Tarvaris Jackson in the first, does that mean he'd be ready to go?


It would have meant the team believed he was ready to go. Like they said about Ponder when they picked him in the first. Not going to find the thread but it was something along the lines of Ponder and Dalton being tops on our board because they were most pro ready. Pretty sure it was a Speilman interview.


No. Simply picking a guy early doesn't mean he's NFL ready on day 1. Ponder was graded as probably the fourth or fifth best QB in the draft. We reached for him, plain and simple. Just because we did that does not mean I expect he'll be ready day 1. There's nothing wrong with sitting your first round QB for a year or two. Hell, Eli and Rivers, both top-3 picks sat for at least a full season before they got their shot. Both were picked as better QBs than Ponder was.

Ponder was graded as a 4th or 5th and we drafted him in the first? We had him graded as a 1st rounder, who cares what some internet hack as him projected as. The teams going to treat him as a first rounder because that's what he was.

and yes there are good examples on both sides of the coin for start now vs start later.


He can develop. On the bench. Throwing him to the wolves won't accomplish anything. If there's such a small chance of him winning, then why risk damaging him?

Playing snaps in the NFL won't accomplish anything? lol


Let McNabb take the hits, guide us to 8-8, then next season Ponder can come in and woo everyone.

And that's just the thing he's not going to step in and woo everyone. History has shown young QBs are going to take their lumps in the NFL, and I'm a strong proponent of letting them take their lumps in their rookie year. When they're expected to suck.

If Ponder doesn't take a snap his rookie year, and has all that time to watch and learn. There will be some relatively high expectations of him come year 2, and if he's on par to break Peytons interception record he might not even get to finish the season. That would be a damn shame imo. The first QB we've drafted in the first round in over 10 years could be run out of town before he even gets a fair shake.


Few weeks? Draft was in April. He missed all of May, June and July. That's 3 months of minicamps, meetings, workouts, OTAs, etc. Things that are especially important for rookies to get in sync with their teammates, get ready for the NFL, meet their coaches, learn the scheme, etc. Ponder was able to do NONE of those things. He's far more than a couple weeks behind.

I'll give you that although McNabb isn't necessarily up to speed on our team and offense. Either QB is going to be further behind in our offense than any starting QB should ever be on week 1.

Again we should be used to that though, *cough cough Favre*


The logic in that statement simply does not work.

It has to be more logical than

"Both were picked as better QBs than Ponder was."


Why would we need another vet next season?


We would need another vet because we would have no idea how Ponder will play in the NFL. We surely can't go into next season with just Ponder and Webb with all of a few games experience between them.

i_bleed_purple
08-07-2011, 07:07 PM
Someones gotta be the next great QB. Why not Ponder? Brees and Brady don't have unreal arm strength, yet they're in that same tier...

Picking someone in the first does change your expectations, a QB drafted in the first round is usually someone the team looks to make the starter after year one, if not earlier.

If we picked Tarvaris Jackson in the first, does that mean he'd be ready to go?

No. Simply picking a guy early doesn't mean he's NFL ready on day 1. Ponder was graded as probably the fourth or fifth best QB in the draft. We reached for him, plain and simple. Just because we did that does not mean I expect he'll be ready day 1. There's nothing wrong with sitting your first round QB for a year or two. Hell, Eli and Rivers, both top-3 picks sat for at least a full season before they got their shot. Both were picked as better QBs than Ponder was.


McNabb is a one year band aid, nothing more, nothing less. We're just as unlikely to win a Superbowl with McNabb this year as we are with Ponder (0.005% chance.) So why not let the one were trying to develop actually develop.
He can develop. On the bench. Throwing him to the wolves won't accomplish anything. If there's such a small chance of him winning, then why risk damaging him? Let McNabb take the hits, guide us to 8-8, then next season Ponder can come in and woo everyone.


Ponder missed rookie camp, mini camp and OTAs. Now he's a year behind in his development? I'd say he's a few weeks behind at most. So instead of week 1 I'd expect to see Ponder week 6 at the latest.

Few weeks? Draft was in April. He missed all of May, June and July. That's 3 months of minicamps, meetings, workouts, OTAs, etc. Things that are especially important for rookies to get in sync with their teammates, get ready for the NFL, meet their coaches, learn the scheme, etc. Ponder was able to do NONE of those things. He's far more than a couple weeks behind.



So yeah. He will be ready to go this year, and if he's not he should be thrown in anyways so he's ready to go next year.

The logic in that statement simply does not work.


What we shouldn't do is try to scrape by with McNabb for 16 games, release him at seasons end and need another veteran next year, just in case Ponder isn't ready, yet again. It will be TJ all over again. Give the kid a shot.

Why would we need another vet next season?

You really can't go wrong in this situation. McNabb starts this season, if he lights it up and wins a superbowl, Fantastic. He can play next year too in that case. If he plays well, we make playoffs, have a good run, great. If he sucks, then we live with it, Ponder learns some things from a full season of practice, workouts and meetings, then is ready to take over next season. If he gets hurt, then we put in Ponder and see if he is actually ready to go.

With McNabb starting at the tail end of his career, we keep our future QB injury-free (as it will inevitably happen behind our line) and able to learn the proper way.


If we picked Tarvaris Jackson in the first, does that mean he'd be ready to go?


It would have meant the team believed he was ready to go. Like they said about Ponder when they picked him in the first. Not going to find the thread but it was something along the lines of Ponder and Dalton being tops on our board because they were most pro ready. Pretty sure it was a Speilman interview.

But what if in a draft, there was really only one pro-ready QB, and a bunch of decent ones. Those decent ones would get reached, and even though they were atop someones board, it does not necessarily mean the team thinks he is ready to go. Thing is, QB is such a hard position to find a solution for, that teams reach, knowing full well that at times, it might take a couple years.



No. Simply picking a guy early doesn't mean he's NFL ready on day 1. Ponder was graded as probably the fourth or fifth best QB in the draft. We reached for him, plain and simple. Just because we did that does not mean I expect he'll be ready day 1. There's nothing wrong with sitting your first round QB for a year or two. Hell, Eli and Rivers, both top-3 picks sat for at least a full season before they got their shot. Both were picked as better QBs than Ponder was.

Ponder was graded as a 4th or 5th and we drafted him in the first? We had him graded as a 1st rounder, who cares what some internet hack as him projected as. The teams going to treat him as a first rounder because that's what he was.

and yes there are good examples on both sides of the coin for start now vs start later.

But did we grade him as a first, or did we grade QB as an absolute need, and in order to get that, we NEEDED to draft early. I think the later. I'm willing to bet if every QB was left on the board, we would not have drafted Ponder. Hell, we might not have gone QB at all.



He can develop. On the bench. Throwing him to the wolves won't accomplish anything. If there's such a small chance of him winning, then why risk damaging him?

Playing snaps in the NFL won't accomplish anything? lol
Worked wonders for TJ didn't it?



Let McNabb take the hits, guide us to 8-8, then next season Ponder can come in and woo everyone.

And that's just the thing he's not going to step in and woo everyone. History has shown young QBs are going to take their lumps in the NFL, and I'm a strong proponent of letting them take their lumps in their rookie year. When their expected to suck.
63.3%, 4000+ yards, 28td 13 int - Rodgers first "Lumpy" season as a starter
61.7%, 3300+ yards, 22td 9 int - Rivers first "Lumpy" season as a starter
52.8%, 3700+ yards, 24td 17 int - Eli's first "Lumpy" season as a starter
63.6%, 3400+ yards, 205d, 14int - Cutler's first "Lumpy" season as a starter.

Seems to me, these guys have skipped alot of the lumps they woudl have taken their rookie year. Did they struggle at times? Yes. But I firmly believe they are better for having sat their rookie year, or most of it.


If Ponder doesn't take a snap his rookie year, and has all that time to watch and learn. There will be some relatively high expectations of him come year 2, and if he's on par to break Peytons interception record he might not even get to finish the season. That would be a damn shame imo. The first QB we've drafted in the first round in over 10 years could be run out of town before he even gets a fair shake.
How is that any different if he starts this season and sucks? Thing is, if he sucks next season, we're not going to run him out of town. (Unless he can't even throw a ball, which I don't see happening) He'll get a few years to establish himself at minimum. All first round QB's do.



Few weeks? Draft was in April. He missed all of May, June and July. That's 3 months of minicamps, meetings, workouts, OTAs, etc. Things that are especially important for rookies to get in sync with their teammates, get ready for the NFL, meet their coaches, learn the scheme, etc. Ponder was able to do NONE of those things. He's far more than a couple weeks behind.

I'll give you that although McNabb isn't necessarily up to speed on our team and offense. Either QB is going to be further behind in our offense than any starting QB should ever be on week 1.
Thing is, McNabb doesn't need to learn the NFL game. Ponder does. McNabb knows how to read an NFL defense, knows how to make adjustments, knows the speed of the game. Ponde rhas a long, long way to go, especially since he lost 3 months of preparation time.


Again we should be used to that though, *cough cough Favre*
Seems a healthy Favre managed it just fine.



The logic in that statement simply does not work.

It has to be more logical than

"Both were picked as better QBs than Ponder was."

Are you saying they weren't? Ryan was almost unanimously scouted as a top-5 pick. No doubt. Ponder... not so much.



Why would we need another vet next season?


We would need another vet because we would have no idea how Ponder will play in the NFL. We surely can't go into next season with just Ponder and Webb with all of a few games experience between them.

Sure, get a backup vet at that point. A guy LIKE Frerotte, Bulger, etc (not exactly them), but a backup who CAN play if needed, but does not expect to. those guys aren't that difficult to fine, most teams with a young QB will have one.

marshallvike
08-07-2011, 08:42 PM
Funny, could have sworn Marrdro said Ponder would be ready, because 'he's a smart cat', and because he has the playbook.

I was also convinced that a veteran QB would have no positive effect on Ponder. He CERTAINLY wouldn't be "Helping" Ponder learn the game....

that's just crazy talk!

Ready to play, is a lot different from ready to step in and put this team on his shoulders. Peyton Manning set the interceptions in a season record his rookie year. He wasn't really ready was he?

I would say Ponder is in the situation any 1st round QB should be in, ready to step in and learn. Who knows how Peyton's career would have turned out if he wasn't allowed time to overcome that steep learning curve in year one.

I really think we should be trying, as hard as we can, to develop our QB of the future as opposed to playing another year with a Band-Aid QB that we know will get soggy and fall off.

Pretty tough to compare Ponder to Peyton Manning, don't you think?
I really think we ARE trying,as hard as we can, to develope our QB of the future by letting him learn without getting his brains beat in his rookie season.

Purple Floyd
08-07-2011, 10:23 PM
Quick question- Who was the experienced vet that Matt Ryan learned behind when Musgrave was developing him in Atlanta?

How did Philip Rivers first season as a Charger work out for him?

He completed 62.5% of his passes for a QB rating of 110.9:P
BTW his career ratings are 63.7% completions and a QB rating of 97.2 so he was pretty much the QB he is right out of the box.Only his second year was under 60%.
Your point being?

vikinggreg
08-07-2011, 11:24 PM
Funny, could have sworn Marrdro said Ponder would be ready, because 'he's a smart cat', and because he has the playbook.

I was also convinced that a veteran QB would have no positive effect on Ponder. He CERTAINLY wouldn't be "Helping" Ponder learn the game....

that's just crazy talk!

Now now

Marr I believe pegged Tjack as one of the hottest FA QB out this year and he was the first signed, his first outing he had a pick,
threw (http://blog.thenewstribune.com/seahawks/2011/08/04/qb-jackson-shines-stumbles-in-first-practice/) wild a couple timesand
In one (http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/a-week-into-camp-seahawks-free-agents-finally-get-to-work/2011/08/05/gIQA8MqivI_story.html) three-play sequence, Jackson fumbled two snaps from center Max Unger and a handoff to running back Leon Washington
which were chauked up as rust or a bad day for the Seattle gifted (as in the job was
gifted to him) starter

While it isn't really time to compare Ponder to Manning, Brees or Rivers we can look at the guy missing from the roster that was suppose to be the future at one time and compare them and their first days of 2011 well :whistle:

i_bleed_purple
08-08-2011, 02:12 AM
Quick question- Who was the experienced vet that Matt Ryan learned behind when Musgrave was developing him in Atlanta?

How did Philip Rivers first season as a Charger work out for him?

He completed 62.5% of his passes for a QB rating of 110.9:P
BTW his career ratings are 63.7% completions and a QB rating of 97.2 so he was pretty much the QB he is right out of the box.Only his second year was under 60%.
Your point being?

on 8 attempts, but nice try.

midgensa
08-08-2011, 02:15 AM
Quick question- Who was the experienced vet that Matt Ryan learned behind when Musgrave was developing him in Atlanta?

How did Philip Rivers first season as a Charger work out for him?

He completed 62.5% of his passes for a QB rating of 110.9:P
BTW his career ratings are 63.7% completions and a QB rating of 97.2 so he was pretty much the QB he is right out of the box.Only his second year was under 60%.

Your point being?


on 8 attempts, but nice try.


Rivers first year as a Charger starter? Was quite exceptional actually.

Of course it was his third year in the league.

Purple Floyd
08-08-2011, 02:55 AM
Quick question- Who was the experienced vet that Matt Ryan learned behind when Musgrave was developing him in Atlanta?

How did Philip Rivers first season as a Charger work out for him?

He completed 62.5% of his passes for a QB rating of 110.9:P
BTW his career ratings are 63.7% completions and a QB rating of 97.2 so he was pretty much the QB he is right out of the box.Only his second year was under 60%.
Your point being?

on 8 attempts, but nice try.

So what was your point?

i_bleed_purple
08-08-2011, 03:28 AM
Quick question- Who was the experienced vet that Matt Ryan learned behind when Musgrave was developing him in Atlanta?

How did Philip Rivers first season as a Charger work out for him?

He completed 62.5% of his passes for a QB rating of 110.9:P
BTW his career ratings are 63.7% completions and a QB rating of 97.2 so he was pretty much the QB he is right out of the box.Only his second year was under 60%.
Your point being?

on 8 attempts, but nice try.

So what was your point?

that he sat his ass on the bench for his first two seasons, and it worked terrifically for him.

Purple Floyd
08-08-2011, 12:24 PM
Quick question- Who was the experienced vet that Matt Ryan learned behind when Musgrave was developing him in Atlanta?

How did Philip Rivers first season as a Charger work out for him?

He completed 62.5% of his passes for a QB rating of 110.9:P
BTW his career ratings are 63.7% completions and a QB rating of 97.2 so he was pretty much the QB he is right out of the box.Only his second year was under 60%.
Your point being?

on 8 attempts, but nice try.

So what was your point?

that he sat his ass on the bench for his first two seasons, and it worked terrifically for him.

Well, then my point was even when he played his rookie year he did pretty well and his numbers were right there with the numbers for the rest of his career so there is absolutely zero reason to assume he wouldn't have been just as successful right out of the gate.

Do you have any examples of the staff saying that he wasn't ready in his rookie season so they were benching him?

i_bleed_purple
08-08-2011, 12:29 PM
Quick question- Who was the experienced vet that Matt Ryan learned behind when Musgrave was developing him in Atlanta?

How did Philip Rivers first season as a Charger work out for him?

He completed 62.5% of his passes for a QB rating of 110.9:P
BTW his career ratings are 63.7% completions and a QB rating of 97.2 so he was pretty much the QB he is right out of the box.Only his second year was under 60%.
Your point being?

on 8 attempts, but nice try.

So what was your point?

that he sat his ass on the bench for his first two seasons, and it worked terrifically for him.

Well, then my point was even when he played his rookie year he did pretty well and his numbers were right there with the numbers for the rest of his career so there is absolutely zero reason to assume he wouldn't have been just as successful right out of the gate.

Do you have any examples of the staff saying that he wasn't ready in his rookie season so they were benching him?

The stats also say TJ is one of the all-time great QB's based on a handful of games where he had 3 attempts in mop-up duty.

his rookie season is absolutely no indication of his skill. They sat him because they had a vet ahead of him, and wanted to grow him on the bench.

BTW, Rivers was a top-5 pick, Ponder was #12, and most didn't even pick him as a top-5 QB in the class. Either way, both had alot to learn, but Rivers had the advantage of a full offseason, Ponder did not.

Randy Moss
08-08-2011, 01:05 PM
Ponder was really bad on Saturday as well.

Purple Floyd
08-08-2011, 01:06 PM
Quick question- Who was the experienced vet that Matt Ryan learned behind when Musgrave was developing him in Atlanta?

How did Philip Rivers first season as a Charger work out for him?

He completed 62.5% of his passes for a QB rating of 110.9:P
BTW his career ratings are 63.7% completions and a QB rating of 97.2 so he was pretty much the QB he is right out of the box.Only his second year was under 60%.
Your point being?

on 8 attempts, but nice try.

So what was your point?

that he sat his ass on the bench for his first two seasons, and it worked terrifically for him.

Well, then my point was even when he played his rookie year he did pretty well and his numbers were right there with the numbers for the rest of his career so there is absolutely zero reason to assume he wouldn't have been just as successful right out of the gate.

Do you have any examples of the staff saying that he wasn't ready in his rookie season so they were benching him?

The stats also say TJ is one of the all-time great QB's based on a handful of games where he had 3 attempts in mop-up duty.

his rookie season is absolutely no indication of his skill. They sat him because they had a vet ahead of him, and wanted to grow him on the bench.

BTW, Rivers was a top-5 pick, Ponder was #12, and most didn't even pick him as a top-5 QB in the class. Either way, both had alot to learn, but Rivers had the advantage of a full offseason, Ponder did not.

But there is no evidence that he wouldn't have developed into the QB he is if he had started his first 2 years and that is what your point is trying to establish. I feel that he would have been just as good as he is today if he had started year one as he did after sitting.

Ponder may very well be different and after seeing him practice I agree that he has no chance of coming in and playing lights out, but also the things i see that are going to keep him from playing well right from the beginning might also prevent him from ever doing it.

i_bleed_purple
08-08-2011, 01:07 PM
I guess we'll really only know on Saturday. First preseason game vs. the Titans. He'll be playign backups, so if he's as ready as you all claim he is, he should light these chumps up no problem.

Purple Floyd
08-08-2011, 01:28 PM
I guess we'll really only know on Saturday. First preseason game vs. the Titans. He'll be playign backups, so if he's as ready as you all claim he is, he should light these chumps up no problem.

Apparently you are not really reading what I post.

I have said many times, especially after seeing the training camp practice on Saturday, that Ponder is not ready to be a starting QB. In fact, if you look at the post that you just replied to I clearly restated that. I also stated that the things that I see as a problem might not be fixed by time alone.


What I have been stating in regards to Rivers has zero to do with Ponder. They are 2 totally different players with totally different teams. Rivers is a successful QB now and he more than likely would have been from day 1 of his rookie year. Ponder is a different player and he may or may not benefit from sitting on the bench but IMO what he needs is time playing and not sitting. If he is not going to work out it is going to be because he doesn't have the arm strength to get the ball to where it needs to be when it needs to be there and sitting on his ass isn't going to make his arm stronger.

i_bleed_purple
08-08-2011, 01:30 PM
I guess we'll really only know on Saturday. First preseason game vs. the Titans. He'll be playign backups, so if he's as ready as you all claim he is, he should light these chumps up no problem.

Apparently you are not really reading what I post.

I have said many times, especially after seeing the training camp practice on Saturday, that Ponder is not ready to be a starting QB. In fact, if you look at the post that you just replied to I clearly restated that. I also stated that the things that I see as a problem might not be fixed by time alone.


What I have been stating in regards to Rivers has zero to do with Ponder. They are 2 totally different players with totally different teams. Rivers is a successful QB now and he more than likely would have been from day 1 of his rookie year. Ponder is a different player and he may or may not benefit from sitting on the bench but IMO what he needs is time playing and not sitting. If he is not going to work out it is going to be because he doesn't have the arm strength to get the ball to where it needs to be when it needs to be there and sitting on his ass isn't going to make his arm stronger.

And I disagree. I think he needs to sit for a year for the best chance of turning out to be a franchise QB for us.

It's obvious neither of us will concede to the other, so let's leave it at that.

Zeus
08-08-2011, 01:50 PM
It's obvious neither of us will concede to the other, so let's leave it at that.

That's not the PPO way.

=Z=

BloodyHorns82
08-08-2011, 06:47 PM
If Ponder is having trouble adjusting to the NFL speed of training camp then he's in store for one hell of a surprise.

singersp
08-08-2011, 11:33 PM
And this is why signing a saavy veteran QB to start & for Ponder to sit a year & learn from that veteran is so vitally important to his success.

I am not sure McNabb is what I would want in a mentor for a QB. His mechanics are terrible and he has no desire to change them. He is also very lethargic in practice IMHO. Webb, OTOH was right up front and ready to go all of the time, plus he was interacting with the WR's and showing leadership.

Marty would say( and I agree) that the QB coach and not some washed up vet, should be all a rookie QB needs to develop.




Starting Ponder would have been a mistake & had we went that route he'd be learning from Webb, who is learning himself or learning from Bomar, who has yet to take a snap in a NFL game.

Quick question- Who was the experienced vet that Matt Ryan learned behind when Musgrave was developing him in Atlanta?

There are rare exceptions. But pease don't confuse a QB who was picked 3rd overall with another QB who was projected to go mid 2nd round.

Ryan also had the benefit of a full offseason program. Ponder will have had a little over a week with an intact team heading into the 1st preseason game.

The Falcons took a very high risk going with Ryan with not only no veteran QB presence, but no 2nd option at QB period. He was the only QB on the team.

Purple Floyd
08-09-2011, 03:31 AM
There are rare exceptions. But pease don't confuse a QB who was picked 3rd overall with another QB who was projected to go mid 2nd round.

Projections mean precisely squat. Jamarcus Russell was the top overall pick and he didn't end up being squat. Joe Flacco was the 18th pick in the draft(6 later than Ponder) and he started day 1. It is less rare lately than it was in the past it seems and there are more examples every year of players starting day one. Bradford as well.

What we are really talking about is not whether he is ready or not but whether he is capable or not. If he is capable he will be OK whether he starts day 1 or year 3. If he is not going to cut it he won't work out day 1 and he won't work out in 5 years.


Ryan also had the benefit of a full offseason program. Ponder will have had a little over a week with an intact team heading into the 1st preseason game.

That preparation helps but it isn't life or death. He would have a slower start but by the time the final quarter of the season rolls around he will be showing if he has what it takes or not.I would rather see that right away than to leave him on the bench for 3 years with no idea if he will ever be a legitimate starter.




The Falcons took a very high risk going with Ryan with not only no veteran QB presence, but no 2nd option at QB period. He was the only QB on the team.

They are taking a risk now. Who is his backup this season if he gets hurt?? That is a totally separate issue from the discussion.

i_bleed_purple
08-09-2011, 03:37 AM
There are rare exceptions. But pease don't confuse a QB who was picked 3rd overall with another QB who was projected to go mid 2nd round.

Projections mean precisely squat. Jamarcus Russell was the top overall pick and he didn't end up being squat.
I remember a LOT of people claiming bust well before the draft due to work ethic alone. There are hit or miss guys. Guys like Reggie Bush, who have first-overall potential, but on the flip side, there's a good chance they'll be average at best. With Ryan, common thinking said that you would be getting an alright QB at worst, great QB at best.


Joe Flacco was the 18th pick in the draft(6 later than Ponder) and he started day 1. It is less rare lately than it was in the past it seems and there are more examples every year of players starting day one. Bradford as well.

Again, you're comparing Bradford, a consensus #1 pick to Ponder, a guy many had going in the second.


What we are really talking about is not whether he is ready or not but whether he is capable or not. If he is capable he will be OK whether he starts day 1 or year 3. If he is not going to cut it he won't work out day 1 and he won't work out in 5 years.
So you're saying if someone can'tp lay day 1 they can't play day 1500 either? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.



Ryan also had the benefit of a full offseason program. Ponder will have had a little over a week with an intact team heading into the 1st preseason game.

That preparation helps but it isn't life or death. He would have a slower start but by the time the final quarter of the season rolls around he will be showing if he has what it takes or not.I would rather see that right away than to leave him on the bench for 3 years with no idea if he will ever be a legitimate starter.

not life or death? Give a guy the entire offseason off, with no coaching guidace and you think he'll do even OK? There are guys who go for years of training and don't even do OK, what makes you think Ponder is so special?

Oh, I know, he's a Viking, therefore must be the steal of the draft. Got it.

Purple Floyd
08-09-2011, 04:01 AM
There are rare exceptions. But pease don't confuse a QB who was picked 3rd overall with another QB who was projected to go mid 2nd round.

Projections mean precisely squat. Jamarcus Russell was the top overall pick and he didn't end up being squat.
I remember a LOT of people claiming bust well before the draft due to work ethic alone. There are hit or miss guys. Guys like Reggie Bush, who have first-overall potential, but on the flip side, there's a good chance they'll be average at best. With Ryan, common thinking said that you would be getting an alright QB at worst, great QB at best.


Joe Flacco was the 18th pick in the draft(6 later than Ponder) and he started day 1. It is less rare lately than it was in the past it seems and there are more examples every year of players starting day one. Bradford as well.

Again, you're comparing Bradford, a consensus #1 pick to Ponder, a guy many had going in the second.


What we are really talking about is not whether he is ready or not but whether he is capable or not. If he is capable he will be OK whether he starts day 1 or year 3. If he is not going to cut it he won't work out day 1 and he won't work out in 5 years.
So you're saying if someone can'tp lay day 1 they can't play day 1500 either? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.



Ryan also had the benefit of a full offseason program. Ponder will have had a little over a week with an intact team heading into the 1st preseason game.

That preparation helps but it isn't life or death. He would have a slower start but by the time the final quarter of the season rolls around he will be showing if he has what it takes or not.I would rather see that right away than to leave him on the bench for 3 years with no idea if he will ever be a legitimate starter.

not life or death? Give a guy the entire offseason off, with no coaching guidace and you think he'll do even OK? There are guys who go for years of training and don't even do OK, what makes you think Ponder is so special?

Oh, I know, he's a Viking, therefore must be the steal of the draft. Got it.

Now you are just being dumb for Christs sake. It's a goddam game, just relax for a change and if you are that agitated wait until Marty comes back. Otherwise find another stump to piss on.;)

Purple Floyd
08-09-2011, 04:20 AM
Someones gotta be the next great QB. Why not Ponder? Brees and Brady don't have unreal arm strength, yet they're in that same tier...

Picking someone in the first does change your expectations, a QB drafted in the first round is usually someone the team looks to make the starter after year one, if not earlier.

McNabb is a one year band aid, nothing more, nothing less. We're just as unlikely to win a Superbowl with McNabb this year as we are with Ponder (0.005% chance.) So why not let the one were trying to develop actually develop.

Ponder missed rookie camp, mini camp and OTAs. Now he's a year behind in his development? I'd say he's a few weeks behind at most. So instead of week 1 I'd expect to see Ponder week 6 at the latest.

So yeah. He will be ready to go this year, and if he's not he should be thrown in anyways so he's ready to go next year.

What we shouldn't do is try to scrape by with McNabb for 16 games, release him at seasons end and need another veteran next year, just in case Ponder isn't ready, yet again. It will be TJ all over again. Give the kid a shot.

I guess we're the Vikings though, and there is something to be said about our perpetual loop of washed up 'safe option' veterans.

Very wise post.

purplejokr
08-09-2011, 06:15 AM
At the end of the day there are reports that the speed of the NFL game is making the adjustment tough on the kid.

Here's my reason for giving McNabb the first crack at this and allowing Ponder to learn on the sideline...

I don't trust that O-Line. If Ponder is thrown to the wolves and the speed of the NFL is already having an impact on him, can someone guarantee me that my QB of the future won't be injured and lost for his first season or worse?

If McNabb gets injured so be it. Let the kid take the reins without pressure when he HAS to go in because of an injury.

Marrdro
08-10-2011, 04:55 PM
Funny, could have sworn Marrdro said Ponder would be ready, because 'he's a smart cat', and because he has the playbook.

I was also convinced that a veteran QB would have no positive effect on Ponder. He CERTAINLY wouldn't be "Helping" Ponder learn the game....

that's just crazy talk!
Nope, as always, you completely misunderstood.

What Marrdro said was that he would understand if they went ahead and didn't opt to sign a "Top Tier" FA QB for this year and opted to go with Ponder.

Mostly because of the whole "Ran the scheme in college" discussion.

On a side note, did anyone see McNabbs contract details? 1 years, 5 mil if he sucks, 7 mil if he doesn't.

Wouldn't be to hard to start Ponder by week 5 or so if it looks like the 5 mil option will be closer to reality than the 7 mil option.

By the by, I think Marrdro also said the Ponder should have it figured out by then if he was starting from week 1. Just in case you misunderstood that discussion point as well. ;)

Marrdro
08-10-2011, 05:01 PM
Someones gotta be the next great QB. Why not Ponder? Brees and Brady don't have unreal arm strength, yet they're in that same tier...

Picking someone in the first does change your expectations, a QB drafted in the first round is usually someone the team looks to make the starter after year one, if not earlier.

McNabb is a one year band aid, nothing more, nothing less. We're just as unlikely to win a Superbowl with McNabb this year as we are with Ponder (0.005% chance.) So why not let the one were trying to develop actually develop.

Ponder missed rookie camp, mini camp and OTAs. Now he's a year behind in his development? I'd say he's a few weeks behind at most. So instead of week 1 I'd expect to see Ponder week 6 at the latest.

So yeah. He will be ready to go this year, and if he's not he should be thrown in anyways so he's ready to go next year.

What we shouldn't do is try to scrape by with McNabb for 16 games, release him at seasons end and need another veteran next year, just in case Ponder isn't ready, yet again. It will be TJ all over again. Give the kid a shot.

I guess we're the Vikings though, and there is something to be said about our perpetual loop of washed up 'safe option' veterans.
The "Someone who has a clue" spreadsheet is always correct........:laugh:

Good stuff my friend. The best thing is, if Dnabb doesn't work out, it isn't that hard to sit him (5 Mil/6th rounder). If he does work out, we pay him 2 mil more and give up another 6 rounder the following draft.

Again, not to expensive to let the kid learn.

As I said, the kid has run the scheme before. He understands what to do with the ball. Its just the speed that he needs to get used to, well that and reading NFL defenses. ;)

On a side note, from what I've been seeing/hearing/reading, he's moved from the 3rd team to the 2nd and has run with the 1's a bit when Dnabb is over puking on the sidelines.

The one who's making it hard on him is young Webb. Inaccurate as all get out with the deep throws, but seems to have progressed a bit during the offseason as well.

Atleast for me, Young Ponder and Webb seem to be what we will all be trusting to run this team in the near future and the future is alot nearer than a few on here want to admit.

Marrdro
08-10-2011, 05:04 PM
And this is why signing a saavy veteran QB to start & for Ponder to sit a year & learn from that veteran is so vitally important to his success.

I am not sure McNabb is what I would want in a mentor for a QB. His mechanics are terrible and he has no desire to change them. He is also very lethargic in practice IMHO. Webb, OTOH was right up front and ready to go all of the time, plus he was interacting with the WR's and showing leadership.

Marty would say( and I agree) that the QB coach and not some washed up vet, should be all a rookie QB needs to develop.




Starting Ponder would have been a mistake & had we went that route he'd be learning from Webb, who is learning himself or learning from Bomar, who has yet to take a snap in a NFL game.

Quick question- Who was the experienced vet that Matt Ryan learned behind when Musgrave was developing him in Atlanta?
......you my friend......Crack me up......:woohoo:

For some reason the predominance of the posters on here seem to believe that the coaches only carry water and coffee to the players. Its the Vets who teach all the other players what needs to be done.

Marrdro
08-10-2011, 05:11 PM
Now now

Marr I believe pegged Tjack as one of the hottest FA QB out this year and he was the first signed, his first outing he had a pick,
Are you actually following TJ over there in Seachickenville?

You crack me up my friend.

Actually, I never said he was going to be the hottest FA QB. I only bet our good friends EJ and Caine that they would admit that he was a good QB by the end of the season.

That he was the first QB signed and even the first FA signed was nothing more than me pointing those little facts out to them as they try to figure out if they buy me beer or if I buy them beer.

On a side note, gonna be fun to watch the Seachickens tomorrow night. By all accounts that team is looking pretty damn good on the offensive side of the ball were most teams offenses are behind the power curve a bit.

Again, thats what I've heard my friend.

Marrdro
08-10-2011, 05:19 PM
I guess we'll really only know on Saturday. First preseason game vs. the Titans. He'll be playign backups, so if he's as ready as you all claim he is, he should light these chumps up no problem.

Apparently you are not really reading what I post.


You will find that he does that alot. The worst part is, he keeps regurgitating those things over and over even though you keep trying to tell him he didn't understand what you said.

Not a big deal though. Atleast he is fun to talk football with.;)

On a side note, if throwing a kid to the wolves right away is going to permantly mess him up, letting him sit on the bench for 3 or 4 years only delays the inevitable.....

He doesn't have the mental make up to play the game and will always struggle because of it.

Ponder doesn't seem to fit that bill. He seems to not only have the skillset to eventually succeed in this league, it also seems that he will be able to deal with the stress (ups and downs) that come from playing QB at this level.

Again, I for one, don't have a problem if he winds up starting and takes a few weeks to get up to the speed of the game, especially if it looks like the team isn't going to go anyplace this year. Its natural and expected.

What I don't want to do is let him sit 4 or 5 years before getting a realistic shot at running the team only to find out that he isn't going to work out.

vikinggreg
08-10-2011, 05:33 PM
Now now

Marr I believe pegged Tjack as one of the hottest FA QB out this year and he was the first signed, his first outing he had a pick,
Are you actually following TJ over there in Seachickenville?

You crack me up my friend.

Actually, I never said he was going to be the hottest FA QB. I only bet our good friends EJ and Caine that they would admit that he was a good QB by the end of the season.

That he was the first QB signed and even the first FA signed was nothing more than me pointing those little facts out to them as they try to figure out if they buy me beer or if I buy them beer.

On a side note, gonna be fun to watch the Seachickens tomorrow night. By all accounts that team is looking pretty damn good on the offensive side of the ball were most teams offenses are behind the power curve a bit.

Again, thats what I've heard my friend.

I live in the Pacific time zone and all our western US channel feeds are out of Seattle so I do get all chicken info...more than I really need

and I do try to keep it light hearted with a poke or two ;)

after all this is the internet and serious stuff

Purple Floyd
08-10-2011, 05:37 PM
Now now

Marr I believe pegged Tjack as one of the hottest FA QB out this year and he was the first signed, his first outing he had a pick,
Are you actually following TJ over there in Seachickenville?

You crack me up my friend.

Actually, I never said he was going to be the hottest FA QB. I only bet our good friends EJ and Caine that they would admit that he was a good QB by the end of the season.

That he was the first QB signed and even the first FA signed was nothing more than me pointing those little facts out to them as they try to figure out if they buy me beer or if I buy them beer.

On a side note, gonna be fun to watch the Seachickens tomorrow night. By all accounts that team is looking pretty damn good on the offensive side of the ball were most teams offenses are behind the power curve a bit.

Again, thats what I've heard my friend.

I live in the Pacific time zone and all our western US channel feeds are out of Seattle so I do get all chicken info...more than I really need

and I do try to keep it light hearted with a poke or two ;)

after all this is the internet and serious stuff

Piss off.

i_bleed_purple
08-10-2011, 05:37 PM
The worst part is, he keeps regurgitating those things over and over even though you keep trying to tell him he didn't understand what you said.

I have a feeling you practiced that line in front of a mirror so that you could really believe it.

Marrdro
08-10-2011, 05:38 PM
Now now

Marr I believe pegged Tjack as one of the hottest FA QB out this year and he was the first signed, his first outing he had a pick,
Are you actually following TJ over there in Seachickenville?

You crack me up my friend.

Actually, I never said he was going to be the hottest FA QB. I only bet our good friends EJ and Caine that they would admit that he was a good QB by the end of the season.

That he was the first QB signed and even the first FA signed was nothing more than me pointing those little facts out to them as they try to figure out if they buy me beer or if I buy them beer.

On a side note, gonna be fun to watch the Seachickens tomorrow night. By all accounts that team is looking pretty damn good on the offensive side of the ball were most teams offenses are behind the power curve a bit.

Again, thats what I've heard my friend.

I live in the Pacific time zone and all our western US channel feeds are out of Seattle so I do get all chicken info...more than I really need


Most of the stuff I've heard has been stuff on Sportspyder. Lots of good stuff about the OL, Running game and how well the TE's are doing mixed in with how happy everyone is over resigning Williams and getting Rice and how well they are doing.

Sounds like the guy running the offense has it under control and some beer is coming my way. :laugh:


and I do try to keep it light hearted with a poke or two ;)

after all this is the internet and serious stuff
I hear ya my friend. You've been around here long enough to know I can take a poke or two.

Its the ones who do it in a nasty way and mean it that usually get a rile out of me.

Marrdro
08-10-2011, 05:39 PM
The worst part is, he keeps regurgitating those things over and over even though you keep trying to tell him he didn't understand what you said.

I have a feeling you practiced that line in front of a mirror so that you could really believe it.
LOL, no, but thats damn funny. :laugh:

vikinggreg
08-10-2011, 05:45 PM
Now now

Marr I believe pegged Tjack as one of the hottest FA QB out this year and he was the first signed, his first outing he had a pick,
Are you actually following TJ over there in Seachickenville?

You crack me up my friend.

Actually, I never said he was going to be the hottest FA QB. I only bet our good friends EJ and Caine that they would admit that he was a good QB by the end of the season.

That he was the first QB signed and even the first FA signed was nothing more than me pointing those little facts out to them as they try to figure out if they buy me beer or if I buy them beer.

On a side note, gonna be fun to watch the Seachickens tomorrow night. By all accounts that team is looking pretty damn good on the offensive side of the ball were most teams offenses are behind the power curve a bit.

Again, thats what I've heard my friend.

I live in the Pacific time zone and all our western US channel feeds are out of Seattle so I do get all chicken info...more than I really need


Most of the stuff I've heard has been stuff on Sportspyder. Lots of good stuff about the OL, Running game and how well the TE's are doing mixed in with how happy everyone is over resigning Williams and getting Rice and how well they are doing.

Sounds like the guy running the offense has it under control and some beer is coming my way. :laugh:


and I do try to keep it light hearted with a poke or two ;)

after all this is the internet and serious stuff
I hear ya my friend. You've been around here long enough to know I can take a poke or two.

Its the ones who do it in a nasty way and mean it that usually get a rile out of me.

Just remember camp speed < preseason game speed < regular season are all different

Tarvaris if I recall has always had good camps

i_bleed_purple
08-10-2011, 05:48 PM
Now now

Marr I believe pegged Tjack as one of the hottest FA QB out this year and he was the first signed, his first outing he had a pick,
Are you actually following TJ over there in Seachickenville?

You crack me up my friend.

Actually, I never said he was going to be the hottest FA QB. I only bet our good friends EJ and Caine that they would admit that he was a good QB by the end of the season.

That he was the first QB signed and even the first FA signed was nothing more than me pointing those little facts out to them as they try to figure out if they buy me beer or if I buy them beer.

On a side note, gonna be fun to watch the Seachickens tomorrow night. By all accounts that team is looking pretty damn good on the offensive side of the ball were most teams offenses are behind the power curve a bit.

Again, thats what I've heard my friend.

I live in the Pacific time zone and all our western US channel feeds are out of Seattle so I do get all chicken info...more than I really need


Most of the stuff I've heard has been stuff on Sportspyder. Lots of good stuff about the OL, Running game and how well the TE's are doing mixed in with how happy everyone is over resigning Williams and getting Rice and how well they are doing.

Sounds like the guy running the offense has it under control and some beer is coming my way. :laugh:


and I do try to keep it light hearted with a poke or two ;)

after all this is the internet and serious stuff
I hear ya my friend. You've been around here long enough to know I can take a poke or two.

Its the ones who do it in a nasty way and mean it that usually get a rile out of me.

Just remember camp speed < preseason game speed < regular season are all different

Tarvaris if I recall has always had good camps

he struggles to remember that combine speed != game speed.

Remember, after all Toby is almost as fast as AP.....

vikinggreg
08-10-2011, 05:49 PM
Now now

Marr I believe pegged Tjack as one of the hottest FA QB out this year and he was the first signed, his first outing he had a pick,
Are you actually following TJ over there in Seachickenville?

You crack me up my friend.

Actually, I never said he was going to be the hottest FA QB. I only bet our good friends EJ and Caine that they would admit that he was a good QB by the end of the season.

That he was the first QB signed and even the first FA signed was nothing more than me pointing those little facts out to them as they try to figure out if they buy me beer or if I buy them beer.

On a side note, gonna be fun to watch the Seachickens tomorrow night. By all accounts that team is looking pretty damn good on the offensive side of the ball were most teams offenses are behind the power curve a bit.

Again, thats what I've heard my friend.

I live in the Pacific time zone and all our western US channel feeds are out of Seattle so I do get all chicken info...more than I really need

and I do try to keep it light hearted with a poke or two ;)

after all this is the internet and serious stuff



Piss off.

don't make me mad............arrrrgh

http://samuelsanchez.blogia.com/upload/20080206211113-homer-hulk1.gif

oh look a donut

Purple Floyd
08-10-2011, 05:51 PM
Now now

Marr I believe pegged Tjack as one of the hottest FA QB out this year and he was the first signed, his first outing he had a pick,
Are you actually following TJ over there in Seachickenville?

You crack me up my friend.

Actually, I never said he was going to be the hottest FA QB. I only bet our good friends EJ and Caine that they would admit that he was a good QB by the end of the season.

That he was the first QB signed and even the first FA signed was nothing more than me pointing those little facts out to them as they try to figure out if they buy me beer or if I buy them beer.

On a side note, gonna be fun to watch the Seachickens tomorrow night. By all accounts that team is looking pretty damn good on the offensive side of the ball were most teams offenses are behind the power curve a bit.

Again, thats what I've heard my friend.

I live in the Pacific time zone and all our western US channel feeds are out of Seattle so I do get all chicken info...more than I really need

and I do try to keep it light hearted with a poke or two ;)

after all this is the internet and serious stuff



Piss off.

don't make me mad............arrrrgh

http://samuelsanchez.blogia.com/upload/20080206211113-homer-hulk1.gif

oh look a donut

lol.

vikinggreg
08-10-2011, 06:00 PM
Now now

Marr I believe pegged Tjack as one of the hottest FA QB out this year and he was the first signed, his first outing he had a pick,
Are you actually following TJ over there in Seachickenville?

You crack me up my friend.

Actually, I never said he was going to be the hottest FA QB. I only bet our good friends EJ and Caine that they would admit that he was a good QB by the end of the season.

That he was the first QB signed and even the first FA signed was nothing more than me pointing those little facts out to them as they try to figure out if they buy me beer or if I buy them beer.

On a side note, gonna be fun to watch the Seachickens tomorrow night. By all accounts that team is looking pretty damn good on the offensive side of the ball were most teams offenses are behind the power curve a bit.

Again, thats what I've heard my friend.

I live in the Pacific time zone and all our western US channel feeds are out of Seattle so I do get all chicken info...more than I really need


Most of the stuff I've heard has been stuff on Sportspyder. Lots of good stuff about the OL, Running game and how well the TE's are doing mixed in with how happy everyone is over resigning Williams and getting Rice and how well they are doing.

Sounds like the guy running the offense has it under control and some beer is coming my way. :laugh:


and I do try to keep it light hearted with a poke or two ;)

after all this is the internet and serious stuff
I hear ya my friend. You've been around here long enough to know I can take a poke or two.

Its the ones who do it in a nasty way and mean it that usually get a rile out of me.

Just remember camp speed < preseason game speed < regular season are all different

Tarvaris if I recall has always had good camps

he struggles to remember that combine speed != game speed.

Remember, after all Toby is almost as fast as AP.....

Hey if your wife is tongue wrestling with singer you might have some subtle oversights with other things in life :laugh:

Big Matt
08-10-2011, 06:03 PM
"You've been around here long enough to know I can take a poke or two."

Said the actress to the bishop!:laugh:

Marrdro
08-10-2011, 06:33 PM
Now now

Marr I believe pegged Tjack as one of the hottest FA QB out this year and he was the first signed, his first outing he had a pick,
Are you actually following TJ over there in Seachickenville?

You crack me up my friend.

Actually, I never said he was going to be the hottest FA QB. I only bet our good friends EJ and Caine that they would admit that he was a good QB by the end of the season.

That he was the first QB signed and even the first FA signed was nothing more than me pointing those little facts out to them as they try to figure out if they buy me beer or if I buy them beer.

On a side note, gonna be fun to watch the Seachickens tomorrow night. By all accounts that team is looking pretty damn good on the offensive side of the ball were most teams offenses are behind the power curve a bit.

Again, thats what I've heard my friend.

I live in the Pacific time zone and all our western US channel feeds are out of Seattle so I do get all chicken info...more than I really need


Most of the stuff I've heard has been stuff on Sportspyder. Lots of good stuff about the OL, Running game and how well the TE's are doing mixed in with how happy everyone is over resigning Williams and getting Rice and how well they are doing.

Sounds like the guy running the offense has it under control and some beer is coming my way. :laugh:


and I do try to keep it light hearted with a poke or two ;)

after all this is the internet and serious stuff
I hear ya my friend. You've been around here long enough to know I can take a poke or two.

Its the ones who do it in a nasty way and mean it that usually get a rile out of me.

Just remember camp speed < preseason game speed < regular season are all different

Tarvaris if I recall has always had good camps
That, my friend, is a very good point. I am sure Caine and EJ will also point it out.:laugh:

Marrdro
08-10-2011, 06:34 PM
he struggles to remember that combine speed != game speed.

Remember, after all Toby is almost as fast as AP.....
Your still getting it wrong. Lets not forget the 40 times. He wasn't as fast, but just a tad bit slower.

As always, you take it, twist it and make it into something no one ever said. ;)

Marrdro
08-10-2011, 06:35 PM
"You've been around here long enough to know I can take a poke or two."

Said the actress to the bishop!:laugh:
Alright, that just got you onto the "You crack me up" spreadsheet. :laugh:

Marrdro
08-10-2011, 06:42 PM
Hey if your wife is tongue wrestling with singer you might have some subtle oversights with other things in life :laugh:
Don't believe him. He is still struggling with the concept that Toby wasn't brought in to be a 3rd down back but a guy who can spell AD at times.

During the discussion he said Toby was big and slow and I retorted with Toby's 40 times vs AD's 40 times and that AD's weren't that much different than Toby's.

Since then he has been saying that I said Toby was as fast as AD or faster.

Toby (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=65195&draftyear=2010&genpos=RB)
4.47 Low - 4.62 High
AD (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=58020&draftyear=2007&genpos=RB)
4.37 Low - 4.42 High

i_bleed_purple
08-10-2011, 06:58 PM
Hey if your wife is tongue wrestling with singer you might have some subtle oversights with other things in life :laugh:
Don't believe him. He is still struggling with the concept that Toby wasn't brought in to be a 3rd down back but a guy who can spell AD at times.

During the discussion he said Toby was big and slow and I retorted with Toby's 40 times vs AD's 40 times and that AD's weren't that much different than Toby's.

Since then he has been saying that I said Toby was as fast as AD or faster.

Toby (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=65195&draftyear=2010&genpos=RB)
4.47 Low - 4.62 High
AD (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=58020&draftyear=2007&genpos=RB)
4.37 Low - 4.42 High

So then you bring up the stat just for the sake of mentioning it?

Might as well have gone this way.

Me: Toby is hella slow.

You: I had chicken fingers for lunch!


If you weren't bringing up the stat to try and make a point, then what was the point of bringing it up?

Marrdro
08-10-2011, 07:03 PM
Hey if your wife is tongue wrestling with singer you might have some subtle oversights with other things in life :laugh:
Don't believe him. He is still struggling with the concept that Toby wasn't brought in to be a 3rd down back but a guy who can spell AD at times.

During the discussion he said Toby was big and slow and I retorted with Toby's 40 times vs AD's 40 times and that AD's weren't that much different than Toby's.

Since then he has been saying that I said Toby was as fast as AD or faster.

Toby (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=65195&draftyear=2010&genpos=RB)
4.47 Low - 4.62 High
AD (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=58020&draftyear=2007&genpos=RB)
4.37 Low - 4.42 High

So then you bring up the stat just for the sake of mentioning it?

Might as well have gone this way.

Me: Toby is hella slow.

You: I had chicken fingers for lunch!


If you weren't bringing up the stat to try and make a point, then what was the point of bringing it up?
What?

Just like the whole "Scrimage" discussion. You didn't like Toby as a third down back. I agree'd but said he wasn't brought in to be a third down back. I said he was brought in to spell AD or start when he couldn't go.

You then said he was to slow to start and I put up the stats. How is that anyway like having chicken fingers for lunch.

i_bleed_purple
08-10-2011, 08:25 PM
Hey if your wife is tongue wrestling with singer you might have some subtle oversights with other things in life :laugh:
Don't believe him. He is still struggling with the concept that Toby wasn't brought in to be a 3rd down back but a guy who can spell AD at times.

During the discussion he said Toby was big and slow and I retorted with Toby's 40 times vs AD's 40 times and that AD's weren't that much different than Toby's.

Since then he has been saying that I said Toby was as fast as AD or faster.

Toby (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=65195&draftyear=2010&genpos=RB)
4.47 Low - 4.62 High
AD (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=58020&draftyear=2007&genpos=RB)
4.37 Low - 4.42 High

So then you bring up the stat just for the sake of mentioning it?

Might as well have gone this way.

Me: Toby is hella slow.

You: I had chicken fingers for lunch!


If you weren't bringing up the stat to try and make a point, then what was the point of bringing it up?
What?

Just like the whole "Scrimage" discussion. You didn't like Toby as a third down back. I agree'd but said he wasn't brought in to be a third down back. I said he was brought in to spell AD or start when he couldn't go.

You then said he was to slow to start and I put up the stats. How is that anyway like having chicken fingers for lunch.

You bring up the stats to a) try and point out that he isn't slow, or b) add nothing of value to the conversation.

which is it? You said that you weren't trying to say he's almost as fast as AP, so what alternative is there?

Marrdro
08-11-2011, 01:24 PM
Hey if your wife is tongue wrestling with singer you might have some subtle oversights with other things in life :laugh:
Don't believe him. He is still struggling with the concept that Toby wasn't brought in to be a 3rd down back but a guy who can spell AD at times.

During the discussion he said Toby was big and slow and I retorted with Toby's 40 times vs AD's 40 times and that AD's weren't that much different than Toby's.

Since then he has been saying that I said Toby was as fast as AD or faster.

Toby (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=65195&draftyear=2010&genpos=RB)
4.47 Low - 4.62 High
AD (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=58020&draftyear=2007&genpos=RB)
4.37 Low - 4.42 High

So then you bring up the stat just for the sake of mentioning it?

Might as well have gone this way.

Me: Toby is hella slow.

You: I had chicken fingers for lunch!


If you weren't bringing up the stat to try and make a point, then what was the point of bringing it up?
What?

Just like the whole "Scrimage" discussion. You didn't like Toby as a third down back. I agree'd but said he wasn't brought in to be a third down back. I said he was brought in to spell AD or start when he couldn't go.

You then said he was to slow to start and I put up the stats. How is that anyway like having chicken fingers for lunch.

You bring up the stats to a) try and point out that he isn't slow, or b) add nothing of value to the conversation.

which is it? You said that you weren't trying to say he's almost as fast as AP, so what alternative is there?
You have to go back to the whole reason behind the discussion. You said that Toby was brought in to be a 3rd down back when in fact he wasn't.

I then said that he was brought in to be a relief/starter for AD when he couldn't go or needed reps off.

You then said he wasn't fast enough.

See if you can figure it out from there. ;)

i_bleed_purple
08-11-2011, 01:29 PM
Hey if your wife is tongue wrestling with singer you might have some subtle oversights with other things in life :laugh:
Don't believe him. He is still struggling with the concept that Toby wasn't brought in to be a 3rd down back but a guy who can spell AD at times.

During the discussion he said Toby was big and slow and I retorted with Toby's 40 times vs AD's 40 times and that AD's weren't that much different than Toby's.

Since then he has been saying that I said Toby was as fast as AD or faster.

Toby (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=65195&draftyear=2010&genpos=RB)
4.47 Low - 4.62 High
AD (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=58020&draftyear=2007&genpos=RB)
4.37 Low - 4.42 High

So then you bring up the stat just for the sake of mentioning it?

Might as well have gone this way.

Me: Toby is hella slow.

You: I had chicken fingers for lunch!


If you weren't bringing up the stat to try and make a point, then what was the point of bringing it up?
What?

Just like the whole "Scrimage" discussion. You didn't like Toby as a third down back. I agree'd but said he wasn't brought in to be a third down back. I said he was brought in to spell AD or start when he couldn't go.

You then said he was to slow to start and I put up the stats. How is that anyway like having chicken fingers for lunch.

You bring up the stats to a) try and point out that he isn't slow, or b) add nothing of value to the conversation.

which is it? You said that you weren't trying to say he's almost as fast as AP, so what alternative is there?
You have to go back to the whole reason behind the discussion. You said that Toby was brought in to be a 3rd down back when in fact he wasn't.
Again, misunderstanding what I'm saying.

I never said he was brought in to be a 3rd down back, however, he was being used on third downs that way. I was simply stating he doesn't have the skillset for it, and is better used as a change of pace back. (which is why we brought in Lorenzo imo)




You then said he wasn't fast enough.
And I stand by that. He's not quick enough to be much of a receiving threat other than being wide open because the D chose not to cover him. He's not a guy who's going to get you 3rd and 6 on the ground. He's not overly big, not a super powerful runner, and he's not fast enough to make you pay if you give him room.

But mostly, my comments about his speed have no specific point, simply stating the obvious. When the guy runs, I'm fairly sure the Continental drift is overtaking him.

in short, he's very, very average at best. You, of course spin it to make it seem like like I thought we were drafting him as a 3rd down back, which I never did.

marshallvike
08-11-2011, 04:16 PM
Hey if your wife is tongue wrestling with singer you might have some subtle oversights with other things in life :laugh:
Don't believe him. He is still struggling with the concept that Toby wasn't brought in to be a 3rd down back but a guy who can spell AD at times.

During the discussion he said Toby was big and slow and I retorted with Toby's 40 times vs AD's 40 times and that AD's weren't that much different than Toby's.

Since then he has been saying that I said Toby was as fast as AD or faster.

Toby (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=65195&draftyear=2010&genpos=RB)
4.47 Low - 4.62 High
AD (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=58020&draftyear=2007&genpos=RB)
4.37 Low - 4.42 High

So then you bring up the stat just for the sake of mentioning it?

Might as well have gone this way.

Me: Toby is hella slow.

You: I had chicken fingers for lunch!


If you weren't bringing up the stat to try and make a point, then what was the point of bringing it up?
What?

Just like the whole "Scrimage" discussion. You didn't like Toby as a third down back. I agree'd but said he wasn't brought in to be a third down back. I said he was brought in to spell AD or start when he couldn't go.

You then said he was to slow to start and I put up the stats. How is that anyway like having chicken fingers for lunch.

You bring up the stats to a) try and point out that he isn't slow, or b) add nothing of value to the conversation.

which is it? You said that you weren't trying to say he's almost as fast as AP, so what alternative is there?
You have to go back to the whole reason behind the discussion. You said that Toby was brought in to be a 3rd down back when in fact he wasn't.
Again, misunderstanding what I'm saying.

I never said he was brought in to be a 3rd down back, however, he was being used on third downs that way. I was simply stating he doesn't have the skillset for it, and is better used as a change of pace back. (which is why we brought in Lorenzo imo)




You then said he wasn't fast enough.
And I stand by that. He's not quick enough to be much of a receiving threat other than being wide open because the D chose not to cover him. He's not a guy who's going to get you 3rd and 6 on the ground. He's not overly big, not a super powerful runner, and he's not fast enough to make you pay if you give him room.

But mostly, my comments about his speed have no specific point, simply stating the obvious. When the guy runs, I'm fairly sure the Continental drift is overtaking him.

in short, he's very, very average at best. You, of course spin it to make it seem like like I thought we were drafting him as a 3rd down back, which I never did.

Maybe the title should read;
Toby Gerhardt's speed throws Christian Ponder for a loop.