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View Full Version : Our Front Office- Go Ahead and Flame Me Now



lumberjackgreg
08-04-2011, 02:37 PM
I know I'm a fairly new poster on PP.o, but I've been trolling here for years. I also work in web design and spend a fair amount of time online so I know how this is about to work... So here's my short editorial...

Most of us have only a fraction of the player knowledge our front office/coaches have. It's easy to find things to complain about if we 'don't like' this move, or that move. It seems to me the reason the guys who work in NFL front offices get there for a reason- success at other levels first. Don't believe me? Try to get a job in the NFL, it's not easy, trust me, I've tried.

So here's my plea- can we suspend judgement until we see how the team looks? Do we have to complain about every move (re-signing Cook, letting Rice go)? Someone has been studying film, they see practices and work outs we don't see, they are in team meetings we're not privy to... How can we think we know much better because we saw their YouTube highlights, watch them during the game where they play 30-40 snaps only, or read an article on ESPN or PFT and put some numbers together?

Let's support our team, which includes the front office, the coaches, the trainers, the owners. Skol Vikes.

Zeus
08-04-2011, 02:41 PM
I know I'm a fairly new poster on PP.o, but I've been trolling here for years. I also work in web design and spend a fair amount of time online so I know how this is about to work... So here's my short editorial...

Most of us have only a fraction of the player knowledge our front office/coaches have. It's easy to find things to complain about if we 'don't like' this move, or that move. It seems to me the reason the guys who work in NFL front offices get there for a reason- success at other levels first. Don't believe me? Try to get a job in the NFL, it's not easy, trust me, I've tried.

So here's my plea- can we suspend judgement until we see how the team looks? Do we have to complain about every move (re-signing Cook, letting Rice go)? Someone has been studying film, they see practices and work outs we don't see, they are in team meetings we're not privy to... How can we think we know much better because we saw their YouTube highlights, watch them during the game where they play 30-40 snaps only, or read an article on ESPN or PFT and put some numbers together?

Let's support our team, which includes the front office, the coaches, the trainers, the owners. Skol Vikes.

LOL. You're funny.

Asking people to "suspend judgment" on the innernet is like asking FOX News not to flame liberals or Wisconsinites not to fuck sheep.

Ain't gonna happen.

But I do appreciate the plea. Something I've said here on PPO many many times over the years.

=Z=

Marrdro
08-04-2011, 03:15 PM
I think you already knew what kindof responses you were probably gonna get, judging by the ending of the thread title.

One thing about fans, we love to criticize just as much as we love to throw out praise.

Atleast on this site, I believe we are a bit more balanced than a few of the other sites I've frequented in the past or visit from time to time now.

i_bleed_purple
08-04-2011, 03:16 PM
I think you already knew what kindof responses you were probably gonna get, judging by the ending of the thread title.

One thing about fans, we love to criticize just as much as we love to throw out praise.

Atleast on this site, I believe we are a bit more balanced than a few of the other sites I've frequented in the past or visit from time to time now.
You're just too good.

http://purplepride.org/forum/2-vikings-fan-forum/1103095-musgrave-says-team-will-tailor-offense-to-fit-play#1103112

AngloVike
08-04-2011, 03:22 PM
You won't get flamed for what you said but with fan sites people are always going to jump in to try and get their two pennyworth in before anyone .. even if it's so that can say later " I told you so " :laugh:

Have no fear people will pull together a little more once the roster is settled and the season starts - if only for the fact that we're 'stuck' with whomever we have.

One good thing on this site is that people will always rag on each other about all aspects of the team but I've never seen it turn really ugly or nasty as has happened on some other sites. We don't all agree all the time but we do get along

midgensa
08-04-2011, 03:25 PM
These posts actually come up pretty often around here.

And while I agree to an extent ... let's be honest. Without criticizing or applauding the coaches, front office, players, etc. What is this site for?

It is obvious that many threads go overboard and many people take every single argument and try to turn it into the same thing (normally Brett Favre is awesome or Brett Favre sucks or T-Jack is awesome or T-Jack sucks), but that is what this site is for.

If every move the front office made caused everyone to make a post that said "I support the front office unilaterally and will wait six months or a year to judge this" then the site would become pretty boring.

And the "they work in the NFL and know what they are doing better than you" argument is tired and old (not from you, but from plenty around these parts, I am sure even I have thrown it out). It is used commonly to defend a side when they are out of any other defenses.

OF COURSE they know more than me, but that definitely does not mean they are always right. Otherwise, every single team would win the Super Bowl every single year. Childress might have known more than me about football (although I am not actually sure Mike Tice did :-)), but that does not change the fact that he was an idiot and should have been called out for it numerous times.

Marrdro
08-04-2011, 03:27 PM
I think you already knew what kindof responses you were probably gonna get, judging by the ending of the thread title.

One thing about fans, we love to criticize just as much as we love to throw out praise.

Atleast on this site, I believe we are a bit more balanced than a few of the other sites I've frequented in the past or visit from time to time now.
You're just too good.

http://purplepride.org/forum/2-vikings-fan-forum/1103095-musgrave-says-team-will-tailor-offense-to-fit-play#1103112
What does that have to do with it?

Besides, just cause I don't agree with you doesn't mean I can't see the other side. Take a look at some of my responses to posters other than you for example. ;)

lumberjackgreg
08-04-2011, 03:31 PM
These posts actually come up pretty often around here.

And while I agree to an extent ... let's be honest. Without criticizing or applauding the coaches, front office, players, etc. What is this site for?

It is obvious that many threads go overboard and many people take every single argument and try to turn it into the same thing (normally Brett Favre is awesome or Brett Favre sucks or T-Jack is awesome or T-Jack sucks), but that is what this site is for.

If every move the front office made caused everyone to make a post that said "I support the front office unilaterally and will wait six months or a year to judge this" then the site would become pretty boring.

And the "they work in the NFL and know what they are doing better than you" argument is tired and old (not from you, but from plenty around these parts, I am sure even I have thrown it out). It is used commonly to defend a side when they are out of any other defenses.

OF COURSE they know more than me, but that definitely does not mean they are always right. Otherwise, every single team would win the Super Bowl every single year. Childress might have known more than me about football (although I am not actually sure Mike Tice did :-)), but that does not change the fact that he was an idiot and should have been called out for it numerous times.

I like this. But I don't know this is really what people do. Allow me to provide a template for everyone to use this year:

"OMG! Can you believe we just signed/cut/traded ______?! What is our coach/FO thinking? When ______ was on _______ (team nickname with smarmy built in joke i.e. The Bores, The Suckhawks, etc.), he did this and it was a disaster. You heard it here first."

Zeus
08-04-2011, 03:32 PM
These posts actually come up pretty often around here.

And while I agree to an extent ... let's be honest. Without criticizing or applauding the coaches, front office, players, etc. What is this site for?

It is obvious that many threads go overboard and many people take every single argument and try to turn it into the same thing (normally Brett Favre is awesome or Brett Favre sucks or T-Jack is awesome or T-Jack sucks), but that is what this site is for.

If every move the front office made caused everyone to make a post that said "I support the front office unilaterally and will wait six months or a year to judge this" then the site would become pretty boring.

And the "they work in the NFL and know what they are doing better than you" argument is tired and old (not from you, but from plenty around these parts, I am sure even I have thrown it out). It is used commonly to defend a side when they are out of any other defenses.

OF COURSE they know more than me, but that definitely does not mean they are always right. Otherwise, every single team would win the Super Bowl every single year. Childress might have known more than me about football (although I am not actually sure Mike Tice did :-)), but that does not change the fact that he was an idiot and should have been called out for it numerous times.

I like this. But I don't know this is really what people do. Allow me to provide a template for everyone to use this year:

"OMG! Can you believe we just signed/cut/traded ______?! What is our coach/FO thinking? When ______ was on _______ (team nickname with smarmy built in joke i.e. The Bores, The Suckhawks, etc.), he did this and it was a disaster. You heard it here first."

Yeah, that's pretty much it.

=Z=

Marrdro
08-04-2011, 03:38 PM
I like this. But I don't know this is really what people do. Allow me to provide a template for everyone to use this year:

"OMG! Can you believe we just signed/cut/traded ______?! What is our coach/FO thinking? When ______ was on _______ (team nickname with smarmy built in joke i.e. The Bores, The Suckhawks, etc.), he did this and it was a disaster. You heard it here first."
You could always deviate from that and start a thread and keep it going so that these types of things don't come up.

I think you'll find that there are several on here who will engage and provide some quality input to your thread.

AngloVike
08-04-2011, 08:25 PM
These posts actually come up pretty often around here.

And while I agree to an extent ... let's be honest. Without criticizing or applauding the coaches, front office, players, etc. What is this site for?

It is obvious that many threads go overboard and many people take every single argument and try to turn it into the same thing (normally Brett Favre is awesome or Brett Favre sucks or T-Jack is awesome or T-Jack sucks), but that is what this site is for.

If every move the front office made caused everyone to make a post that said "I support the front office unilaterally and will wait six months or a year to judge this" then the site would become pretty boring.

And the "they work in the NFL and know what they are doing better than you" argument is tired and old (not from you, but from plenty around these parts, I am sure even I have thrown it out). It is used commonly to defend a side when they are out of any other defenses.

OF COURSE they know more than me, but that definitely does not mean they are always right. Otherwise, every single team would win the Super Bowl every single year. Childress might have known more than me about football (although I am not actually sure Mike Tice did :-)), but that does not change the fact that he was an idiot and should have been called out for it numerous times.

I like this. But I don't know this is really what people do. Allow me to provide a template for everyone to use this year:

"OMG! Can you believe we just signed/cut/traded ______?! What is our coach/FO thinking? When ______ was on _______ (team nickname with smarmy built in joke i.e. The Bores, The Suckhawks, etc.), he did this and it was a disaster. You heard it here first."

You forgot one other important part that is a necessity when PPO members discuss players, especially when looking at potential new ones:

" How about _________? he's a bad ass player and his Madden rating is ___. When I put him onto the Vikes team last night when I was playing Madden/goofing around/jerking off he was phenomenal. The Vikes beat the Pats/Eagles/Cowboys by over 45 points. He gotta be the best player available and I can't believe we won't sign him"

Zeus
08-04-2011, 08:26 PM
You forgot one other important part that is a necessity when PPO members discuss players, especially when looking at potential new ones:

" How about _________? he's a bad ass player and his Madden rating is ___. When I put him onto the Vikes team last night when I was playing Madden/goofing around/jerking off he was phenomenal. The Vikes beat the Pats/Eagles/Cowboys by over 45 points. He gotta be the best player available and I can't believe we won't sign him"

Sign him!

=Z=

jessejames09
08-04-2011, 08:39 PM
Our front office, coaches and players will all get a well deserved pat on the back when we win a Superbowl. Until then, they're fucking up, and as fans we like to think we know why.

lumberjackgreg
08-04-2011, 10:09 PM
So, here's a legit question:
Do you judge success by the number of championships you win or by the quality of product you put out?

If you say championships, does that make Dan Marino a lesser quarterback than Brad Johnson?

midgensa
08-04-2011, 10:30 PM
So, here's a legit question:
Do you judge success by the number of championships you win or by the quality of product you put out?

If you say championships, does that make Dan Marino a lesser quarterback than Brad Johnson?

I consider success being in the mix on a regular basis (as we were for most of the 90s.

Nobody in their right mind can expect to win the Super Bowl every single season. Everyone KNOWS there are going to be down years, but to be successful those need to be few and far between with playoff appearances and legit contender seasons mixed in.

Actually, with 2008 and 2009 this current FO gets a little of a pass with me, though if we continue failing under the new coaching regime, the FO starts to look weaker and weaker.

lumberjackgreg
08-04-2011, 11:09 PM
So, here's a legit question:
Do you judge success by the number of championships you win or by the quality of product you put out?

If you say championships, does that make Dan Marino a lesser quarterback than Brad Johnson?

I consider success being in the mix on a regular basis (as we were for most of the 90s.

Nobody in their right mind can expect to win the Super Bowl every single season. Everyone KNOWS there are going to be down years, but to be successful those need to be few and far between with playoff appearances and legit contender seasons mixed in.

Actually, with 2008 and 2009 this current FO gets a little of a pass with me, though if we continue failing under the new coaching regime, the FO starts to look weaker and weaker.

That.

Ok, bad year last year. The value of our front office will be displayed this year. Can we turn it around? I think so.

singersp
08-04-2011, 11:33 PM
So, here's a legit question:
Do you judge success by the number of championships you win or by the quality of product you put out?

If you say championships, does that make Dan Marino a lesser quarterback than Brad Johnson?

If you put a good quality product on the field, you will win championships & be successful if that "product" you're refering to is a team product. So both could apply.

Does that make Dan Marino a lesser quarterback than Brad Johnson? Of course not, because in the latter your are no longer talking about a team, but rather an individual. An individual can be successfull even though the team around him was not.

I was never a big fan of measuring the success of a player, particularily when it comes to the HOF, by counting the number of Super Bowl rings he has. Winning the Super Bowl is a team effort, not an individual effort.

For every great player with a lot of rings, how many mediocre team mates did he have that have the same number of rings.

But there are those who think having that ring means the world.

I remember the debate of whether or not to sign Brad Johnson for another season in 2006 & one of the big points the pro Johnson crowd pushed was how great he was 'cause he had a ring. LOL! Yeah, that got us real far in 2006 didn't it?

Overlord
08-04-2011, 11:39 PM
So, here's a legit question:
Do you judge success by the number of championships you win or by the quality of product you put out?

If you say championships, does that make Dan Marino a lesser quarterback than Brad Johnson?
I just want to have fun watching the games. Watching a team that is competent and competitive is more fun than the alternative. And the team can be both of those things irrespective of what the rest of the NFL is doing.

The Vikings playing in/winning a Super Bowl would be fun to see. But it doesn't really matter at the end of the day.

singersp
08-05-2011, 12:40 AM
So, here's a legit question:
Do you judge success by the number of championships you win or by the quality of product you put out?

Can you quantify "success"?

Some of us here could legitimately call 2010 a successful year due to the fact that Childress got axed before the end of the season.

Personally, I would have liked to have seen him shit canned on Christmas Eve, but it was still a great Thanksgiving gift.

Purple Floyd
08-05-2011, 03:46 AM
Most of us have only a fraction of the player knowledge our front office/coaches have. It's easy to find things to complain about if we 'don't like' this move, or that move. It seems to me the reason the guys who work in NFL front offices get there for a reason- success at other levels first. Don't believe me? Try to get a job in the NFL, it's not easy, trust me, I've tried.



Yep, we do anly have a fraction of the knowledge they have of the intricacies of the game. And you know what? That doesn't mean squat.

The FO doesn't have to know more than some rube with a keyboard, they need to know more and do a better job than the rest of the FO's in the league. If they do a respectable job and put a team on the field that does very well in the years their talent is at it's peak and during the down years if they at least play up to their potential then there aren't going to be a large number of fans harping on them.

If, OTOH the FO gets outmaneuvered by other teams in terms of player signings, getting their players to perform at the level they are capable of, or fails to capitalize on a season where a championship is right in their grasp while another team does then there is no reason not to hold them to account.

JNev
08-05-2011, 04:20 AM
I think the picks were very underrated and got hated on because of initial shock, but after consideration people are eventually gonna see what was going on behind the scenes.


Win and AD jersey on our Facebook page for TheSportsCurrent
http://thesportscurrent.com/The_Sports_Current/Minnesota_Vikings.html

Purple Floyd
08-05-2011, 04:30 AM
I think the picks were very underrated and got hated on because of initial shock, but after consideration people are eventually gonna see what was going on behind the scenes.


Win and AD jersey on our Facebook page for TheSportsCurrent
http://thesportscurrent.com/The_Sports_Current/Minnesota_Vikings.html



Holy balls, the spammers are coming out of the woodwork tonight.

JNev
08-05-2011, 04:31 AM
I mean well though, I legitimately think this would be beneficial to the guys on this board. At least check it out before the hate...

Purple Floyd
08-05-2011, 04:37 AM
I mean well though, I legitimately think this would be beneficial to the guys on this board. At least check it out before the hate...

It has nothing to do with hate.

http://www.purplepride.org/forum/2-vikings-fan-forum/1078587-please-read-regarding-trolls-a-spammers

JNev
08-05-2011, 04:40 AM
Spammer is better than Troll though. And yea hate was a little too strong of a word

Zeus
08-05-2011, 03:30 PM
So, here's a legit question:
Do you judge success by the number of championships you win or by the quality of product you put out?

If you say championships, does that make Dan Marino a lesser quarterback than Brad Johnson?

Dan Marino > Brad Johnson
Dan Marino < Tom Brady, John Elway

=Z=

Traveling_Vike
08-09-2011, 06:22 PM
This would seem to be as good a place as any to make my first return posting after a long off-season absence.

First off, welcome, lumberjackgreg. Wow, another Greg, just what we needed. 8)

I hear you on your plea. I'm very much a wait-and-see guy myself, but even I like to post my own opinions. It seems to me, though, that there is a big difference between saying:

A) I agree/disagree with this move, and

B) They are stupid for doing/not doing this.

It's easy to slip up and call someone stupid when you're typing blind words on a keyboard instead of facing the guy in person. One of the big drawbacks of the information age is that it has relaxed social mores to the point of rudeness. But so be it.

In any case, welcome again, and I look forward to seeing what you have to contribute.

jmcdon00
08-09-2011, 08:04 PM
So, here's a legit question:
Do you judge success by the number of championships you win or by the quality of product you put out?

If you say championships, does that make Dan Marino a lesser quarterback than Brad Johnson?

Dan Marino > Brad Johnson
Dan Marino < Tom Brady, John Elway

=Z=
Thats an easy one.
How about Eli Manning vs Phillip Rivers?

lumberjackgreg
08-09-2011, 08:21 PM
This would seem to be as good a place as any to make my first return posting after a long off-season absence.

First off, welcome, lumberjackgreg. Wow, another Greg, just what we needed. 8)

I hear you on your plea. I'm very much a wait-and-see guy myself, but even I like to post my own opinions. It seems to me, though, that there is a big difference between saying:

A) I agree/disagree with this move, and

B) They are stupid for doing/not doing this.

It's easy to slip up and call someone stupid when you're typing blind words on a keyboard instead of facing the guy in person. One of the big drawbacks of the information age is that it has relaxed social mores to the point of rudeness. But so be it.

In any case, welcome again, and I look forward to seeing what you have to contribute.

Thanks for the welcome.

And I think you make my point better than I did. By suspending judgement, I am just saying let's hold off on the rude remarks about it. I got into a conversation with my boss yesterday about something we didn't see eye-to-eye on. No one called the other stupid, and we can disagree, and I still support the decision made because I can see the point of view.

The biggest draw back of internet communication: everyone's a tough guy behind a computer monitor. I wonder how most would react when face to face with someone else, coaches, players, etc...

Queue the "if I met _______ I'd tell him what's what" comments here.

Freya
08-09-2011, 08:26 PM
So, here's a legit question:
Do you judge success by the number of championships you win or by the quality of product you put out?

If you say championships, does that make Dan Marino a lesser quarterback than Brad Johnson?

Success in football, in my opinion, is measured by the quality of the product week after week, year after year. In other words.........CONSISTENCY. It stands to reason, then, that you will end up with a championship at some point.

Zeus
08-09-2011, 08:53 PM
So, here's a legit question:
Do you judge success by the number of championships you win or by the quality of product you put out?

If you say championships, does that make Dan Marino a lesser quarterback than Brad Johnson?

Dan Marino > Brad Johnson
Dan Marino < Tom Brady, John Elway

Thats an easy one.
How about Eli Manning vs Phillip Rivers?

At this point, Eli > Rivers.

=Z=

jmcdon00
08-09-2011, 09:33 PM
So, here's a legit question:
Do you judge success by the number of championships you win or by the quality of product you put out?

If you say championships, does that make Dan Marino a lesser quarterback than Brad Johnson?

Dan Marino > Brad Johnson
Dan Marino < Tom Brady, John Elway

Thats an easy one.
How about Eli Manning vs Phillip Rivers?

At this point, Eli > Rivers.

=Z=
Rivers > Eli IMHO.

Freakout
08-10-2011, 12:05 AM
So, here's a legit question:
Do you judge success by the number of championships you win or by the quality of product you put out?

If you say championships, does that make Dan Marino a lesser quarterback than Brad Johnson?

Dan Marino > Brad Johnson
Dan Marino < Tom Brady, John Elway

Thats an easy one.
How about Eli Manning vs Phillip Rivers?

At this point, Eli > Rivers.

=Z=
Rivers > Eli IMHO.

Rivers is definitely more consistent but I would rather have Eli. Very hard to ignore how clutch Eli was in that Superbowl win.

Boils down to stats versus intangibles.

Minniman
08-10-2011, 05:10 AM
Neither Rivers nor Manning were available for the Vikings, but Brees was. The Vikings didn't push hard enough for him.

The Vikings missed on Cameron Wake because they offered him a lowball contract.

The Vikings hired Childress without interviewing other coaches.

The Vikings tries to protect quadragenarian Brett Favre with a suspect offensive line and a fullback that couldn't block worth a darn.

Hmmm, I don't know about these guys.

Traveling_Vike
08-12-2011, 07:32 PM
So, here's a legit question:
Do you judge success by the number of championships you win or by the quality of product you put out?

If you say championships, does that make Dan Marino a lesser quarterback than Brad Johnson?

Dan Marino > Brad Johnson
Dan Marino < Tom Brady, John Elway

Thats an easy one.
How about Eli Manning vs Phillip Rivers?

At this point, Eli > Rivers.

=Z=
Rivers > Eli IMHO.

Rivers is definitely more consistent but I would rather have Eli. Very hard to ignore how clutch Eli was in that Superbowl win.

Boils down to stats versus intangibles.

I would (and did) take Rivers for my fantasy QB. That worked out pretty well for me, iirc.

However, for a real world team starting from scratch, I think I might go with Eli. I think he still has more room to grow, while Phillip seems to me to have reached his ceiling. albeit a fairly high one.

i_bleed_purple
08-12-2011, 07:38 PM
However, for a real world team starting from scratch, I think I might go with Eli. I think he still has more room to grow, while Phillip seems to me to have reached his ceiling. albeit a fairly high one.

Eli sure does have room to grow, and I hope for his sake he does.

He had one good run in the playoffs, helped by a great defense, solid offense, Bellicheck deciding not to cover Burress in the endzone and just some good old fashioned luck.

I would not call Eli clutch, because he needs to do more than get lucky once. He's a whiny kid, who makes a living off the Manning name. He doesn't get it done int he regular season, and while immediately people might claim that Roethlisberger also doesn't put up big stats, Roethlisberger has been to three superbowls. He consistently gets it done in the playoffs and has shown to be a clutch player, despite not statistically backing it up.

Rivers has probably reached his ceiling. A ceiling that has him as a top-5 QB in the league easily. Manning, Brady, Rivers, Rodgers and Brees are some pretty names to be associated with. Now, if only he had a special teams unit (as last year, they had the #1 O, D but somehow missed the playoffs), and a coach who isn't scared of the playoffs, and he might be unstoppable.

MaxVike
08-13-2011, 03:25 PM
I know I'm a fairly new poster on PP.o, but I've been trolling here for years. I also work in web design and spend a fair amount of time online so I know how this is about to work... So here's my short editorial...

Most of us have only a fraction of the player knowledge our front office/coaches have. It's easy to find things to complain about if we 'don't like' this move, or that move. It seems to me the reason the guys who work in NFL front offices get there for a reason- success at other levels first. Don't believe me? Try to get a job in the NFL, it's not easy, trust me, I've tried.

So here's my plea- can we suspend judgement until we see how the team looks? Do we have to complain about every move (re-signing Cook, letting Rice go)? Someone has been studying film, they see practices and work outs we don't see, they are in team meetings we're not privy to... How can we think we know much better because we saw their YouTube highlights, watch them during the game where they play 30-40 snaps only, or read an article on ESPN or PFT and put some numbers together?

Let's support our team, which includes the front office, the coaches, the trainers, the owners. Skol Vikes.

LOL. You're funny.

Asking people to "suspend judgment" on the innernet is like asking FOX News not to flame liberals or Wisconsinites not to fuck sheep.

Ain't gonna happen.

But I do appreciate the plea. Something I've said here on PPO many many times over the years.

=Z=

No Z, YOU are funny. That is fucking hilarious!