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View Full Version : Why not Take yet another chance on Moss?



Purple Blood
07-28-2011, 06:50 PM
Well Rice is gone, Berrian cant cut it "I hope he gets cut" Pun intended. Anyhow why not take another chance on Moss.Chilly is gone, McNabb has a arm if anything we could stretch the field, and we could probaby get him pretty cheap.

Let the flaming begin!!

SKOL VIKINGS!!!!

Marrdro
07-28-2011, 06:53 PM
.......sigh......

Didn't you get enough of putting two recievers on the field who only run 8 and 9 routes last year?

How effective were we with Moss and Berrian?

As I've said in the other 8 threads asking to get Moss back....

We don't need another outside burner. We need an inside guy that can run a 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 route and be a Red Zone threat when the team gets in there.

That takes a guy who can out muscle defenders. Randy isn't doing that for us.

midgensa
07-28-2011, 07:10 PM
Well this week has been fun in that the mods clearly do not even want to take the ridiculous amount of time it would take to merge all the threads that are about the same damn things.

Obviously, at this point, a chance with Moss would not hurt anything. He is 10x the "burner" that Berrian is and acting like Moss is only good for one route is a little silly.

Sure, he is the best to ever run that route, but it is not like he is not very capable of being a solid WR without just going deep. He has SIX 80-reception seasons, I doubt that he was making all those catches going deep.

Depending on the cost, Moss could fit right back in here ... and he would be happy to avoid Mr. Childress this time around.

Caine
07-28-2011, 07:12 PM
.......sigh......

Didn't you get enough of putting two recievers on the field who only run 8 and 9 routes last year?

How effective were we with Moss and Berrian?

As I've said in the other 8 threads asking to get Moss back....

We don't need another outside burner. We need an inside guy that can run a 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 route and be a Red Zone threat when the team gets in there.

That takes a guy who can out muscle defenders. Randy isn't doing that for us.

And despite your oversimplification, you failed to address the fact that we STATISTICALLY improved our passing game while also improving our running game simply by adding Moss to the equation. In fact, we were better with Moss than with Rice.

But why let little things like FACTS stand in the way. This wouldn't be the first blind player-hate road you've walked.

Caine

lavikings
07-28-2011, 07:18 PM
Just need to stop with the Moss coming back. It is totally ridiculous.

What Moss did to this organization not once, but twice, tells you everything.

It's not worth whatever is left of his talent, and certainly not his cantankerous and shady character.

The guy is an immature, selfish, self-righteous, prick and disease to any franchise. This guy would be working at McDonalds if not for his "football skills", and he would be fired in 2 days, for mouthing off, disrespect, antics, etc.

Go look at that Pats game last year, where he could have caught the ball and scored a TD easily. He did not. He was saying I don't respect the game or the Vikings, I don't give a shit.

Wilf and Frazier, have said "Good Riddance" to this guy. If he is ever a Viking again, management has lost their minds.

They are trying to build, not destroy.

Marrdro
07-28-2011, 07:20 PM
Well this week has been fun in that the mods clearly do not even want to take the ridiculous amount of time it would take to merge all the threads that are about the same damn things.

Obviously, at this point, a chance with Moss would not hurt anything. He is 10x the "burner" that Berrian is and acting like Moss is only good for one route is a little silly.

Sure, he is the best to ever run that route, but it is not like he is not very capable of being a solid WR without just going deep. He has SIX 80-reception seasons, I doubt that he was making all those catches going deep.

Depending on the cost, Moss could fit right back in here ... and he would be happy to avoid Mr. Childress this time around.
Get rid of Berrian, yes, bring in Moss. Replacement for Rice, not a good option.

Marrdro
07-28-2011, 07:23 PM
.......sigh......

Didn't you get enough of putting two recievers on the field who only run 8 and 9 routes last year?

How effective were we with Moss and Berrian?

As I've said in the other 8 threads asking to get Moss back....

We don't need another outside burner. We need an inside guy that can run a 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 route and be a Red Zone threat when the team gets in there.

That takes a guy who can out muscle defenders. Randy isn't doing that for us.

And despite your oversimplification, you failed to address the fact that we STATISTICALLY improved our passing game while also improving our running game simply by adding Moss to the equation. In fact, we were better with Moss than with Rice.

But why let little things like FACTS stand in the way. This wouldn't be the first blind player-hate road you've walked.

Caine
How many catches did he have? How many TD's did he catch? Did Harvins numbers go up? You said they did, I never double checked you.

Problem is, Harvins numbers would have also gone up with Rice on the field and so would have the Noodles numbers cause Rice would have caught a few more balls/scored a few more TD's.

Facts, not hate.

Marrdro
07-28-2011, 07:24 PM
Just need to stop with the Moss coming back. It is totally ridiculous.

What Moss did to this organization not once, but twice, tells you everything.

It's not worth his existing talent.

The guy is am immature, selfish, self-righteous, prick and disease to any franchise. This guy would be working at McDonalds if not for his "football skills", and he would be fired in 2 days, mouthing off, antics, etc.

Wilf and Fraizier, saying "Good Riddance" to this guy. If he is ever a Viking again, management has lost their mind.

They are trying to build not destroy.
Existing talent being the key to your point my friend.

There is a reason only one team was stupid enough to give the Pats what they wanted and there was another reason that there was only one other team desparate enough to take a chance on him after we let him go.

Caine
07-28-2011, 07:39 PM
.......sigh......

Didn't you get enough of putting two recievers on the field who only run 8 and 9 routes last year?

How effective were we with Moss and Berrian?

As I've said in the other 8 threads asking to get Moss back....

We don't need another outside burner. We need an inside guy that can run a 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 route and be a Red Zone threat when the team gets in there.

That takes a guy who can out muscle defenders. Randy isn't doing that for us.

And despite your oversimplification, you failed to address the fact that we STATISTICALLY improved our passing game while also improving our running game simply by adding Moss to the equation. In fact, we were better with Moss than with Rice.

But why let little things like FACTS stand in the way. This wouldn't be the first blind player-hate road you've walked.

Caine
How many catches did he have? How many TD's did he catch? Did Harvins numbers go up? You said they did, I never double checked you.

Problem is, Harvins numbers would have also gone up with Rice on the field and so would have the Noodles numbers cause Rice would have caught a few more balls/scored a few more TD's.

Facts, not hate.

Fact is that all of this was explained LONG ago - When Moss was here the receiving production went up,. and the running game improved...moreso that when Rice was back.

I posted all the stats (pulled from NFL.com - not BleacherReport) at the time.

But you keep trying to refute them with empty BS.

Fact is, Moss would improve our receiver corps...just like he did last time. Even if he and Berrian can only run streaks, that still gives us a vertical game we've lacked (since Berrian can't separate). And, that puts Percy BACK in the slot where he is most effective. Sure, we lose the possession guy we had in Rice....but we didn't have that last season either.

Caine

kevoncox
07-28-2011, 07:49 PM
.......sigh......

Didn't you get enough of putting two recievers on the field who only run 8 and 9 routes last year?

How effective were we with Moss and Berrian?

As I've said in the other 8 threads asking to get Moss back....

We don't need another outside burner. We need an inside guy that can run a 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 route and be a Red Zone threat when the team gets in there.

That takes a guy who can out muscle defenders. Randy isn't doing that for us.

And despite your oversimplification, you failed to address the fact that we STATISTICALLY improved our passing game while also improving our running game simply by adding Moss to the equation. In fact, we were better with Moss than with Rice.

But why let little things like FACTS stand in the way. This wouldn't be the first blind player-hate road you've walked.

Caine
How many catches did he have? How many TD's did he catch? Did Harvins numbers go up? You said they did, I never double checked you.

Problem is, Harvins numbers would have also gone up with Rice on the field and so would have the Noodles numbers cause Rice would have caught a few more balls/scored a few more TD's.

Facts, not hate.

Fact is that all of this was explained LONG ago - When Moss was here the receiving production went up,. and the running game improved...moreso that when Rice was back.

I posted all the stats (pulled from NFL.com - not BleacherReport) at the time.

But you keep trying to refute them with empty BS.

Fact is, Moss would improve our receiver corps...just like he did last time. Even if he and Berrian can only run streaks, that still gives us a vertical game we've lacked (since Berrian can't separate). And, that puts Percy BACK in the slot where he is most effective. Sure, we lose the possession guy we had in Rice....but we didn't have that last season either.

Caine

I co-sign this Caine.
Moss and BB can move both safeties. This will open up the middle for Harvin and Shank. Last season we couldn't take the top off the defense and Shank was forced to stay in and block. When Moss joined our offense clicked and we almost beat both the Jets and the Pats in very close games.

jargomcfargo
07-28-2011, 07:57 PM
.......sigh......

Didn't you get enough of putting two recievers on the field who only run 8 and 9 routes last year?

How effective were we with Moss and Berrian?

As I've said in the other 8 threads asking to get Moss back....

We don't need another outside burner. We need an inside guy that can run a 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 route and be a Red Zone threat when the team gets in there.

That takes a guy who can out muscle defenders. Randy isn't doing that for us.

And despite your oversimplification, you failed to address the fact that we STATISTICALLY improved our passing game while also improving our running game simply by adding Moss to the equation. In fact, we were better with Moss than with Rice.

But why let little things like FACTS stand in the way. This wouldn't be the first blind player-hate road you've walked.

Caine
How many catches did he have? How many TD's did he catch? Did Harvins numbers go up? You said they did, I never double checked you.

Problem is, Harvins numbers would have also gone up with Rice on the field and so would have the Noodles numbers cause Rice would have caught a few more balls/scored a few more TD's.

Facts, not hate.

Fact is that all of this was explained LONG ago - When Moss was here the receiving production went up,. and the running game improved...moreso that when Rice was back.

I posted all the stats (pulled from NFL.com - not BleacherReport) at the time.

But you keep trying to refute them with empty BS.

Fact is, Moss would improve our receiver corps...just like he did last time. Even if he and Berrian can only run streaks, that still gives us a vertical game we've lacked (since Berrian can't separate). And, that puts Percy BACK in the slot where he is most effective. Sure, we lose the possession guy we had in Rice....but we didn't have that last season either.

Caine

I co-sign this Caine.
Moss and BB can move both safeties. This will open up the middle for Harvin and Shank. Last season we couldn't take the top off the defense and Shank was forced to stay in and block. When Moss joined our offense clicked and we almost beat both the Jets and the Pats in very close games.

I think especially now that we McNabb.

jmcdon00
07-28-2011, 07:58 PM
To answer the question: Because he's a washed up douche bag who burned that bridge. Did you guys even see the press conference after the Pats game? Douche!

kevoncox
07-28-2011, 08:07 PM
Week 1 Total offense: 253 - 171 passing : Saints : Harvin 12
Week 2 Total offense: 364 - 225 passing : Phins: Harvin 32
Week 3 Total offense: 368 - 201 passing : Lions: Harvin 62
Bye
Week 5 Total offense: 336 - 264 passing : Jets: Harvin 97
Week 6 Total offense: 188 - 118 passing : Boys: Harvin 21
Week 7 Total offense: 402 - 212 passing : GB: Harvin 65
Week 8 Total offense: 410 - 259 passing : Pats: Harvin 104

kevoncox
07-28-2011, 08:10 PM
To answer the question: Because he's a washed up douche bag who burned that bridge. Did you guys even see the press conference after the Pats game? Douche!

He said he loved and missed them.
He said he told the coach what was coming and no one listened
He spoke the truth as always.

i_bleed_purple
07-28-2011, 08:29 PM
.......sigh......

Didn't you get enough of putting two recievers on the field who only run 8 and 9 routes last year?

How effective were we with Moss and Berrian?

As I've said in the other 8 threads asking to get Moss back....

We don't need another outside burner. We need an inside guy that can run a 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 route and be a Red Zone threat when the team gets in there.

That takes a guy who can out muscle defenders. Randy isn't doing that for us.

And despite your oversimplification, you failed to address the fact that we STATISTICALLY improved our passing game while also improving our running game simply by adding Moss to the equation. In fact, we were better with Moss than with Rice.

But why let little things like FACTS stand in the way. This wouldn't be the first blind player-hate road you've walked.

Caine
How many catches did he have? How many TD's did he catch?
2 TD's, 13 catches, 174 yards. would equate to 52 catches, 696 yards, 8 TD's, better production than Berrian and Rice, 100 yards shy of Harvin. Of course, you can't look past the single game total of 1 rec. 8 yards vs. the Pats.


Did Harvins numbers go up? You said they did, I never double checked you.

Let me help you. During the 4 weeks Moss was here, he got
287 yards,-> 33% of his season total
71.75ypg compared to his 62 ypg avg.
2 TD's, 40% of his season total.
.5td/g vs. .357td/g
19 catches, 26% of his season total.
4.75 rec/g vs. 5.07

So during Moss's tenure here, Harvin exceeded his seaason averages in every important category.

But of course you choose to dismiss that as always, choosing to instead claim that Favre throwing for a career high the week Moss got released means Moss hurts the team.



Problem is, Harvins numbers would have also gone up with Rice on the field and so would have the Noodles numbers cause Rice would have caught a few more balls/scored a few more TD's.

Hmm... interesting concept. Let's check the math.
Rice played weeks 11-16, 6 games, 37.5% of the season
During those games, Harvin missed two games, so it's not fair to go by total stats, lets do averages. During those games Harvin had:

19 catches: 26% of season total
4.75 rec/g -> Season average: 5.07
216 yards: 24.8% of season total
54 ypg -> season average: 62 ypg
1 TD: -> 20% of season total
0.25 td/g -> season average: .3125


So yet again, you speak directly through your ass, as Harvin not only had better total stats during Moss' tenure in most categories, he had far better average stats as well per game during moss' tenure than whan Rice played.




Facts, not hate.
Yup. That's a good one Marty, I'm going to remember it.

P.S.
http://www.popularvirals.com/images/owned/owned-funny-family-guy-783.jpg

jmcdon00
07-28-2011, 08:52 PM
.......sigh......

Didn't you get enough of putting two recievers on the field who only run 8 and 9 routes last year?

How effective were we with Moss and Berrian?

As I've said in the other 8 threads asking to get Moss back....

We don't need another outside burner. We need an inside guy that can run a 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 route and be a Red Zone threat when the team gets in there.

That takes a guy who can out muscle defenders. Randy isn't doing that for us.

And despite your oversimplification, you failed to address the fact that we STATISTICALLY improved our passing game while also improving our running game simply by adding Moss to the equation. In fact, we were better with Moss than with Rice.

But why let little things like FACTS stand in the way. This wouldn't be the first blind player-hate road you've walked.

Caine
How many catches did he have? How many TD's did he catch?
2 TD's, 13 catches, 174 yards. would equate to 52 catches, 696 yards, 8 TD's, better production than Berrian and Rice, 100 yards shy of Harvin. Of course, you can't look past the single game total of 1 rec. 8 yards vs. the Pats.


Did Harvins numbers go up? You said they did, I never double checked you.

Let me help you. During the 4 weeks Moss was here, he got
287 yards,-> 33% of his season total
71.75ypg compared to his 62 ypg avg.
2 TD's, 40% of his season total.
.5td/g vs. .357td/g
19 catches, 26% of his season total.
4.75 rec/g vs. 5.07

So during Moss's tenure here, Harvin exceeded his seaason averages in every important category.

But of course you choose to dismiss that as always, choosing to instead claim that Favre throwing for a career high the week Moss got released means Moss hurts the team.



Problem is, Harvins numbers would have also gone up with Rice on the field and so would have the Noodles numbers cause Rice would have caught a few more balls/scored a few more TD's.

Hmm... interesting concept. Let's check the math.
Rice played weeks 11-16, 6 games, 37.5% of the season
During those games, Harvin missed two games, so it's not fair to go by total stats, lets do averages. During those games Harvin had:

19 catches: 26% of season total
4.75 rec/g -> Season average: 5.07
216 yards: 24.8% of season total
54 ypg -> season average: 62 ypg
1 TD: -> 20% of season total
0.25 td/g -> season average: .3125


So yet again, you speak directly through your ass, as Harvin not only had better total stats during Moss' tenure in most categories, he had far better average stats as well per game during moss' tenure than whan Rice played.




Facts, not hate.
Yup. That's a good one Marty, I'm going to remember it.

P.S.
http://www.popularvirals.com/images/owned/owned-funny-family-guy-783.jpg
I love stats, but these are some pretty meaningless ones your throwing out there to justify your love of the freak.

Caine
07-28-2011, 10:14 PM
.......sigh......

Didn't you get enough of putting two recievers on the field who only run 8 and 9 routes last year?

How effective were we with Moss and Berrian?

As I've said in the other 8 threads asking to get Moss back....

We don't need another outside burner. We need an inside guy that can run a 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 route and be a Red Zone threat when the team gets in there.

That takes a guy who can out muscle defenders. Randy isn't doing that for us.

And despite your oversimplification, you failed to address the fact that we STATISTICALLY improved our passing game while also improving our running game simply by adding Moss to the equation. In fact, we were better with Moss than with Rice.

But why let little things like FACTS stand in the way. This wouldn't be the first blind player-hate road you've walked.

Caine
How many catches did he have? How many TD's did he catch?
2 TD's, 13 catches, 174 yards. would equate to 52 catches, 696 yards, 8 TD's, better production than Berrian and Rice, 100 yards shy of Harvin. Of course, you can't look past the single game total of 1 rec. 8 yards vs. the Pats.


Did Harvins numbers go up? You said they did, I never double checked you.

Let me help you. During the 4 weeks Moss was here, he got
287 yards,-> 33% of his season total
71.75ypg compared to his 62 ypg avg.
2 TD's, 40% of his season total.
.5td/g vs. .357td/g
19 catches, 26% of his season total.
4.75 rec/g vs. 5.07

So during Moss's tenure here, Harvin exceeded his seaason averages in every important category.

But of course you choose to dismiss that as always, choosing to instead claim that Favre throwing for a career high the week Moss got released means Moss hurts the team.



Problem is, Harvins numbers would have also gone up with Rice on the field and so would have the Noodles numbers cause Rice would have caught a few more balls/scored a few more TD's.

Hmm... interesting concept. Let's check the math.
Rice played weeks 11-16, 6 games, 37.5% of the season
During those games, Harvin missed two games, so it's not fair to go by total stats, lets do averages. During those games Harvin had:

19 catches: 26% of season total
4.75 rec/g -> Season average: 5.07
216 yards: 24.8% of season total
54 ypg -> season average: 62 ypg
1 TD: -> 20% of season total
0.25 td/g -> season average: .3125


So yet again, you speak directly through your ass, as Harvin not only had better total stats during Moss' tenure in most categories, he had far better average stats as well per game during moss' tenure than whan Rice played.




Facts, not hate.
Yup. That's a good one Marty, I'm going to remember it.

P.S.
http://www.popularvirals.com/images/owned/owned-funny-family-guy-783.jpg
I love stats, but these are some pretty meaningless ones your throwing out there to justify your love of the freak.

Right, because the only important stats for a receiver is sacks allowed?!?!?!?

Come on. In every important category, Moss improved our offense simply by being on the field...and that includes being hamstrung by a moron HC and a unqualified OC.

Caine

ejmat
07-28-2011, 10:32 PM
What's wrong with bringing back Moss? He should come cheap and will be that field stretcher the Vikings need. He and Harvin have a great relationship. He and McNab should get along well. It would help AP (boxes can't be stacked with McNabb because he sstill can scramble). Open up the middle for Harvin, Shank and Rudolph.

We don't know about Berrian yet. Hopefully we get Malcomb Floyd, James Jones or even Braylon Edwards. One of those 3, Moss and Harvin with a two TE set and AP? Who do you cover?

kevoncox
07-28-2011, 10:37 PM
What's wrong with bringing back Moss? He should come cheap and will be that field stretcher the Vikings need. He and Harvin have a great relationship. He and McNab should get along well. It would help AP (boxes can't be stacked with McNabb because he sstill can scramble). Open up the middle for Harvin, Shank and Rudolph.

We don't know about Berrian yet. Hopefully we get Malcomb Floyd, James Jones or even Braylon Edwards. One of those 3, Moss and Harvin with a two TE set and AP? Who do you cover?

I say for the money that we were paying Rice, we can sign Moss and Edwards. I would love to have us in

Purple Blood
07-29-2011, 12:36 AM
I figured this would start a fire storm. Moss is older and slower, but he still has some of the best hands in the NFL! He's also better then 50% of the receivers in the NFL! I also believe the Wilfs had trouble deciding if Moss left or if Chilly was to be fired. I havn't read anywhere that the Wilfs had a huge problem with Moss "although I could have missed it".

I personally would love him back due to the fact by the time my Moss Jersey shipped to me last Year I got to wear it for one Game, I would love to wear it for some more lol.

I'm betting the JETTS take a shot at him, The Patriots just signed Chad Johnson or what ever his name might be these Days!!!!!

marstc09
07-29-2011, 01:47 AM
.......sigh......

Didn't you get enough of putting two recievers on the field who only run 8 and 9 routes last year?

How effective were we with Moss and Berrian?

As I've said in the other 8 threads asking to get Moss back....

We don't need another outside burner. We need an inside guy that can run a 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 route and be a Red Zone threat when the team gets in there.

That takes a guy who can out muscle defenders. Randy isn't doing that for us.

And despite your oversimplification, you failed to address the fact that we STATISTICALLY improved our passing game while also improving our running game simply by adding Moss to the equation. In fact, we were better with Moss than with Rice.

But why let little things like FACTS stand in the way. This wouldn't be the first blind player-hate road you've walked.

Caine

I was gonna post but you took care of it. Nice work as always.

It has been a while....
http://obscureinternet.com/wp-content/uploads/Justin-Timberlake-Owned.jpg

marstc09
07-29-2011, 01:49 AM
.......sigh......

Didn't you get enough of putting two recievers on the field who only run 8 and 9 routes last year?

How effective were we with Moss and Berrian?

As I've said in the other 8 threads asking to get Moss back....

We don't need another outside burner. We need an inside guy that can run a 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 route and be a Red Zone threat when the team gets in there.

That takes a guy who can out muscle defenders. Randy isn't doing that for us.

And despite your oversimplification, you failed to address the fact that we STATISTICALLY improved our passing game while also improving our running game simply by adding Moss to the equation. In fact, we were better with Moss than with Rice.

But why let little things like FACTS stand in the way. This wouldn't be the first blind player-hate road you've walked.

Caine
How many catches did he have? How many TD's did he catch? Did Harvins numbers go up? You said they did, I never double checked you.

Problem is, Harvins numbers would have also gone up with Rice on the field and so would have the Noodles numbers cause Rice would have caught a few more balls/scored a few more TD's.

Facts, not hate.

That is not fact. You proved nothing except your hate for Favre.

marstc09
07-29-2011, 01:51 AM
.......sigh......

Didn't you get enough of putting two recievers on the field who only run 8 and 9 routes last year?

How effective were we with Moss and Berrian?

As I've said in the other 8 threads asking to get Moss back....

We don't need another outside burner. We need an inside guy that can run a 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 route and be a Red Zone threat when the team gets in there.

That takes a guy who can out muscle defenders. Randy isn't doing that for us.

And despite your oversimplification, you failed to address the fact that we STATISTICALLY improved our passing game while also improving our running game simply by adding Moss to the equation. In fact, we were better with Moss than with Rice.

But why let little things like FACTS stand in the way. This wouldn't be the first blind player-hate road you've walked.

Caine
How many catches did he have? How many TD's did he catch?
2 TD's, 13 catches, 174 yards. would equate to 52 catches, 696 yards, 8 TD's, better production than Berrian and Rice, 100 yards shy of Harvin. Of course, you can't look past the single game total of 1 rec. 8 yards vs. the Pats.


Did Harvins numbers go up? You said they did, I never double checked you.

Let me help you. During the 4 weeks Moss was here, he got
287 yards,-> 33% of his season total
71.75ypg compared to his 62 ypg avg.
2 TD's, 40% of his season total.
.5td/g vs. .357td/g
19 catches, 26% of his season total.
4.75 rec/g vs. 5.07

So during Moss's tenure here, Harvin exceeded his seaason averages in every important category.

But of course you choose to dismiss that as always, choosing to instead claim that Favre throwing for a career high the week Moss got released means Moss hurts the team.



Problem is, Harvins numbers would have also gone up with Rice on the field and so would have the Noodles numbers cause Rice would have caught a few more balls/scored a few more TD's.

Hmm... interesting concept. Let's check the math.
Rice played weeks 11-16, 6 games, 37.5% of the season
During those games, Harvin missed two games, so it's not fair to go by total stats, lets do averages. During those games Harvin had:

19 catches: 26% of season total
4.75 rec/g -> Season average: 5.07
216 yards: 24.8% of season total
54 ypg -> season average: 62 ypg
1 TD: -> 20% of season total
0.25 td/g -> season average: .3125


So yet again, you speak directly through your ass, as Harvin not only had better total stats during Moss' tenure in most categories, he had far better average stats as well per game during moss' tenure than whan Rice played.




Facts, not hate.
Yup. That's a good one Marty, I'm going to remember it.

P.S.
http://www.popularvirals.com/images/owned/owned-funny-family-guy-783.jpg

*crickets*

Marrdro
07-29-2011, 11:04 AM
.......sigh......

Didn't you get enough of putting two recievers on the field who only run 8 and 9 routes last year?

How effective were we with Moss and Berrian?

As I've said in the other 8 threads asking to get Moss back....

We don't need another outside burner. We need an inside guy that can run a 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 route and be a Red Zone threat when the team gets in there.

That takes a guy who can out muscle defenders. Randy isn't doing that for us.

And despite your oversimplification, you failed to address the fact that we STATISTICALLY improved our passing game while also improving our running game simply by adding Moss to the equation. In fact, we were better with Moss than with Rice.

But why let little things like FACTS stand in the way. This wouldn't be the first blind player-hate road you've walked.

Caine
How many catches did he have? How many TD's did he catch? Did Harvins numbers go up? You said they did, I never double checked you.

Problem is, Harvins numbers would have also gone up with Rice on the field and so would have the Noodles numbers cause Rice would have caught a few more balls/scored a few more TD's.

Facts, not hate.

Fact is that all of this was explained LONG ago - When Moss was here the receiving production went up,. and the running game improved...moreso that when Rice was back.

I posted all the stats (pulled from NFL.com - not BleacherReport) at the time.

But you keep trying to refute them with empty BS.

Fact is, Moss would improve our receiver corps...just like he did last time. Even if he and Berrian can only run streaks, that still gives us a vertical game we've lacked (since Berrian can't separate). And, that puts Percy BACK in the slot where he is most effective. Sure, we lose the possession guy we had in Rice....but we didn't have that last season either.

Caine

I co-sign this Caine.
Moss and BB can move both safeties. This will open up the middle for Harvin and Shank. Last season we couldn't take the top off the defense and Shank was forced to stay in and block. When Moss joined our offense clicked and we almost beat both the Jets and the Pats in very close games.
OK, I'm gonna take the time, get the calculator out and see what the numbers show.

I know what film showed, he did not command double teams. He did not catch the ball and he did not score TD's.

I might find that Harvins numbers went up, but I bet its not by much and I bet I will find that if I compared games were Rice played, vs when Moss played, Harvins numbers will be down.

Hell, I can bet that if I put up the first game after Moss left, I will find that the team put up over 400 yards passing, first ever for the Noodle.

Not sure how I'm gonna find that Moss made the team better but I'll play.

i_bleed_purple
07-29-2011, 11:53 AM
.......sigh......

Didn't you get enough of putting two recievers on the field who only run 8 and 9 routes last year?

How effective were we with Moss and Berrian?

As I've said in the other 8 threads asking to get Moss back....

We don't need another outside burner. We need an inside guy that can run a 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 route and be a Red Zone threat when the team gets in there.

That takes a guy who can out muscle defenders. Randy isn't doing that for us.

And despite your oversimplification, you failed to address the fact that we STATISTICALLY improved our passing game while also improving our running game simply by adding Moss to the equation. In fact, we were better with Moss than with Rice.

But why let little things like FACTS stand in the way. This wouldn't be the first blind player-hate road you've walked.

Caine
How many catches did he have? How many TD's did he catch? Did Harvins numbers go up? You said they did, I never double checked you.

Problem is, Harvins numbers would have also gone up with Rice on the field and so would have the Noodles numbers cause Rice would have caught a few more balls/scored a few more TD's.

Facts, not hate.

Fact is that all of this was explained LONG ago - When Moss was here the receiving production went up,. and the running game improved...moreso that when Rice was back.

I posted all the stats (pulled from NFL.com - not BleacherReport) at the time.

But you keep trying to refute them with empty BS.

Fact is, Moss would improve our receiver corps...just like he did last time. Even if he and Berrian can only run streaks, that still gives us a vertical game we've lacked (since Berrian can't separate). And, that puts Percy BACK in the slot where he is most effective. Sure, we lose the possession guy we had in Rice....but we didn't have that last season either.

Caine

I co-sign this Caine.
Moss and BB can move both safeties. This will open up the middle for Harvin and Shank. Last season we couldn't take the top off the defense and Shank was forced to stay in and block. When Moss joined our offense clicked and we almost beat both the Jets and the Pats in very close games.
OK, I'm gonna take the time, get the calculator out and see what the numbers show.

I know what film showed, he did not command double teams. He did not catch the ball and he did not score TD's.

I might find that Harvins numbers went up, but I bet its not by much and I bet I will find that if I compared games were Rice played, vs when Moss played, Harvins numbers will be down.

Hell, I can bet that if I put up the first game after Moss left, I will find that the team put up over 400 yards passing, first ever for the Noodle.

Not sure how I'm gonna find that Moss made the team better but I'll play.

I see you completely ignored my post, where I addressed all of those points with statistical evidence, and yet again, you were wrong.

Harvin had better production while Moss was there than with Rice. Plain and Simple.

Facts, not Hate

Tad7
07-29-2011, 12:35 PM
I thought Moss pissed me off last year enough to where I'd never like him again. For that catering incident that is, not the hating Childress thing. But I was wrong...I'm over it, bring him back!

Marrdro
07-29-2011, 12:40 PM
Team with Noodle and without Moss
1 9-Sep Brett Favre 171 Adrian Peterson 87 Percy Harvin 2 (76 Shanc)
2 19-Sep Brett Favre 225 Adrian Peterson 145 Shanc 86
3 26-Sep Brett Favre 201 Adrian Peterson 160 Percy Harvin 62
4 Bye
9 7-Nov Brett Favre 446 Adrian Peterson 81 Percy Harvin 126
10 14-Nov Brett Favre 170 Adrian Peterson 57 Percy Harvin 12 (Rice 56)
11 21-Nov Brett Favre 208 Adrian Peterson 72 Percy Harvin 64
12 28-Nov Brett Favre 172 Toby Gerhart 76 Percy Harvin 32 (Shanc 59)
Pasing 1593/227.5 Rushing 678/96.8 Recieving 529/75.5 (Percy 284/71)

Team with Noodle and Moss
5 11-Oct Brett Favre 264 Adrian Peterson 88 Percy Harvin 97
6 17-Oct Brett Favre 118 Adrian Peterson 73 Percy Harvin 21 (Moss 55)
7 24-Oct Brett Favre 212 Adrian Peterson 131 Percy Harvin 65 (Moss 30)
8 31-Oct Brett Favre 259 Adrian Peterson 92 Percy Harvin 104
Passing 853/213.2 384/96 Rushing 321/80.2 Recieving 287/71.5 (Percy 287/71.5)

Hmmmmmmm.

The Noodle was better without Moss.
Rushing dropped signigicantly
Receiving was better by about 5 yards
Percy was better by .5 yards = Push (I threw out weeks 1, 2, and 3 due to illness)

Tell me again why he is worth another try? 5 extra yards in passing? Yup, thats really gonna help.

Marrdro
07-29-2011, 12:45 PM
I see you completely ignored my post, where I addressed all of those points with statistical evidence, and yet again, you were wrong.

Harvin had better production while Moss was there than with Rice. Plain and Simple.

Facts, not Hate
Nope, didn't ignore, just knew you were wrong.

As I guessed, Caine calls it pulling something out of my ass, having Moss didn't do anything for this team at least not to the point it is worth bringing all the drama back.

Go out and get someone that can be productive I say. Not someone who was great once and isn't anymore.

i_bleed_purple
07-29-2011, 12:46 PM
I see you completely ignored my post, where I addressed all of those points with statistical evidence, and yet again, you were wrong.

Harvin had better production while Moss was there than with Rice. Plain and Simple.

Facts, not Hate
Nope, didn't ignore, just knew you were wrong.

As I guessed, Caine calls it pulling something out of my ass, having Moss didn't do anything for this team at least not to the point it is worth bringing all the drama back.

Go out and get someone that can be productive I say. Not someone who was great once and isn't anymore.

Enlighten me, in what what was I wrong?

Marrdro
07-29-2011, 12:48 PM
Let me help you. During the 4 weeks Moss was here, he got
287 yards,-> 33% of his season total
71.75ypg compared to his 62 ypg avg.
2 TD's, 40% of his season total.
.5td/g vs. .357td/g
19 catches, 26% of his season total.
4.75 rec/g vs. 5.07

So during Moss's tenure here, Harvin exceeded his seaason averages in every important category.

But of course you choose to dismiss that as always, choosing to instead claim that Favre throwing for a career high the week Moss got released means Moss hurts the team.


Come on. In every important category, Moss improved our offense simply by being on the field...and that includes being hamstrung by a moron HC and a unqualified OC.

Caine
LOL, I think you better check your math. As you can see, when someone post the actual stats your logic is flawed.

Go back, revisist the stats page and see if you can come up with some other obscure way to try to make your point cause this isn't working.

In short, don't help anymore..........snicker......:woohoo:

Marrdro
07-29-2011, 12:53 PM
I see you completely ignored my post, where I addressed all of those points with statistical evidence, and yet again, you were wrong.

Harvin had better production while Moss was there than with Rice. Plain and Simple.

Facts, not Hate
Nope, didn't ignore, just knew you were wrong.

As I guessed, Caine calls it pulling something out of my ass, having Moss didn't do anything for this team at least not to the point it is worth bringing all the drama back.

Go out and get someone that can be productive I say. Not someone who was great once and isn't anymore.

Enlighten me, in what what was I wrong?
Tell me were you were right compared to the data I just provided......:whistle:

i_bleed_purple
07-29-2011, 12:55 PM
Let me help you. During the 4 weeks Moss was here, he got
287 yards,-> 33% of his season total
71.75ypg compared to his 62 ypg avg.
2 TD's, 40% of his season total.
.5td/g vs. .357td/g
19 catches, 26% of his season total.
4.75 rec/g vs. 5.07

So during Moss's tenure here, Harvin exceeded his seaason averages in every important category.

But of course you choose to dismiss that as always, choosing to instead claim that Favre throwing for a career high the week Moss got released means Moss hurts the team.


Come on. In every important category, Moss improved our offense simply by being on the field...and that includes being hamstrung by a moron HC and a unqualified OC.

Caine
LOL, I think you better check your math. As you can see, when someone post the actual stats your logic is flawed.

Go back, revisist the stats page and see if you can come up with some other obscure way to try to make your point cause this isn't working.

In short, don't help anymore..........snicker......:woohoo:

ah yes, the good old, "I don't like those numbers, so I'll pretend they're wrong"

Again, enligten me, in what way are they incorrect?

http://www.nfl.com/player/percyharvin/80425/gamelogs
In weeks 5, 6, 7 and 8 , Percy put up numbers of.

5 rec, 97 yards, 2 td
3 rec, 21 yards
5 rec, 65 yards
6 rec, 104 yards

For a total of:
19 rec, 286 yards, 2 td

over a span of the season, that rate accounts for 76 rec, 1144 yards, 8 td.
over a span of 14 games, (which was the number Percy played), he'd have had
67 rec, 1001 yards, 7 TD's

That's better than what he actually did.

Since Percy missed 2 games, using his actual game averages, he would have had through a full season:
81 rec, 992 yards, 6 td

Looks an awful lot to me like Percy's production per game was better with Moss than normally.

But no, go ahead and keep telling yourself that 992 > 1144. It makes sense... :whistle:

Marrdro
07-29-2011, 01:00 PM
Let me help you. During the 4 weeks Moss was here, he got
287 yards,-> 33% of his season total
71.75ypg compared to his 62 ypg avg.
2 TD's, 40% of his season total.
.5td/g vs. .357td/g
19 catches, 26% of his season total.
4.75 rec/g vs. 5.07

So during Moss's tenure here, Harvin exceeded his seaason averages in every important category.

But of course you choose to dismiss that as always, choosing to instead claim that Favre throwing for a career high the week Moss got released means Moss hurts the team.


Come on. In every important category, Moss improved our offense simply by being on the field...and that includes being hamstrung by a moron HC and a unqualified OC.

Caine
LOL, I think you better check your math. As you can see, when someone post the actual stats your logic is flawed.

Go back, revisist the stats page and see if you can come up with some other obscure way to try to make your point cause this isn't working.

In short, don't help anymore..........snicker......:woohoo:

ah yes, the good old, "I don't like those numbers, so I'll pretend they're wrong"

Again, enligten me, in what way are they incorrect?

http://www.nfl.com/player/percyharvin/80425/gamelogs
In weeks 5, 6, 7 and 8 , Percy put up numbers of.

5 rec, 97 yards, 2 td
3 rec, 21 yards
5 rec, 65 yards
6 rec, 104 yards
For a total of:
19 rec, 286 yards, 2 td

over a span of the season, that rate accounts for 76 rec, 1144 yards, 8 td.

Since Percy missed 2 games, using his game averages, he would have had:
81 rec, 992 yards, 6 td

Looks an awful lot to me like Percy's production per game was better with Moss than normally.

But no, go ahead and keep telling yourself that 992 > 1144. It makes sense... :whistle:
But I agree with those numbers.

Weeks 3, 9, 11, and 12 he had
62
126
64
32
for a total of 284

How is that significantly better? 284 vs 287?

i_bleed_purple
07-29-2011, 01:10 PM
Let me help you. During the 4 weeks Moss was here, he got
287 yards,-> 33% of his season total
71.75ypg compared to his 62 ypg avg.
2 TD's, 40% of his season total.
.5td/g vs. .357td/g
19 catches, 26% of his season total.
4.75 rec/g vs. 5.07

So during Moss's tenure here, Harvin exceeded his seaason averages in every important category.

But of course you choose to dismiss that as always, choosing to instead claim that Favre throwing for a career high the week Moss got released means Moss hurts the team.


Come on. In every important category, Moss improved our offense simply by being on the field...and that includes being hamstrung by a moron HC and a unqualified OC.

Caine
LOL, I think you better check your math. As you can see, when someone post the actual stats your logic is flawed.

Go back, revisist the stats page and see if you can come up with some other obscure way to try to make your point cause this isn't working.

In short, don't help anymore..........snicker......:woohoo:

ah yes, the good old, "I don't like those numbers, so I'll pretend they're wrong"

Again, enligten me, in what way are they incorrect?

http://www.nfl.com/player/percyharvin/80425/gamelogs
In weeks 5, 6, 7 and 8 , Percy put up numbers of.

5 rec, 97 yards, 2 td
3 rec, 21 yards
5 rec, 65 yards
6 rec, 104 yards
For a total of:
19 rec, 286 yards, 2 td

over a span of the season, that rate accounts for 76 rec, 1144 yards, 8 td.

Since Percy missed 2 games, using his game averages, he would have had:
81 rec, 992 yards, 6 td

Looks an awful lot to me like Percy's production per game was better with Moss than normally.

But no, go ahead and keep telling yourself that 992 > 1144. It makes sense... :whistle:
But I agree with those numbers.

Weeks 3, 9, 11, and 12 he had
62
126
64
32
for a total of 284

How is that significantly better? 284 vs 287?

sure, anybody can pick and choose games you like. I'm using the stretch of 4 games in a row, while Moss was here, that you wanted.

Here, let's compare to games Moss was NOT here. To keep things from getting too cluttered, I'll post just the season production over 16 games based on those averages, you can check it if you want.

Over 16 games with Moss: (week 5, 6, 7, 8)
76 rec, 1144 yards, 8 td.

Over 16 games without Moss: (including Week 1, 2, 3, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15, 16, 17 averaged)
83 rec, 929 yds, 5 TD

Over 16 games with Rice (averaging weeks 11, 12, 15, 16)
76 rec, 864 yards, 4 td.

Numbers don't like. Harvin was more productive with Moss than without. He had fewer catches, but more yards and TD's.

Marrdro
07-29-2011, 01:28 PM
Let me help you. During the 4 weeks Moss was here, he got
287 yards,-> 33% of his season total
71.75ypg compared to his 62 ypg avg.
2 TD's, 40% of his season total.
.5td/g vs. .357td/g
19 catches, 26% of his season total.
4.75 rec/g vs. 5.07

So during Moss's tenure here, Harvin exceeded his seaason averages in every important category.

But of course you choose to dismiss that as always, choosing to instead claim that Favre throwing for a career high the week Moss got released means Moss hurts the team.


Come on. In every important category, Moss improved our offense simply by being on the field...and that includes being hamstrung by a moron HC and a unqualified OC.

Caine
LOL, I think you better check your math. As you can see, when someone post the actual stats your logic is flawed.

Go back, revisist the stats page and see if you can come up with some other obscure way to try to make your point cause this isn't working.

In short, don't help anymore..........snicker......:woohoo:

ah yes, the good old, "I don't like those numbers, so I'll pretend they're wrong"

Again, enligten me, in what way are they incorrect?

http://www.nfl.com/player/percyharvin/80425/gamelogs
In weeks 5, 6, 7 and 8 , Percy put up numbers of.

5 rec, 97 yards, 2 td
3 rec, 21 yards
5 rec, 65 yards
6 rec, 104 yards
For a total of:
19 rec, 286 yards, 2 td

over a span of the season, that rate accounts for 76 rec, 1144 yards, 8 td.

Since Percy missed 2 games, using his game averages, he would have had:
81 rec, 992 yards, 6 td

Looks an awful lot to me like Percy's production per game was better with Moss than normally.

But no, go ahead and keep telling yourself that 992 > 1144. It makes sense... :whistle:
But I agree with those numbers.

Weeks 3, 9, 11, and 12 he had
62
126
64
32
for a total of 284

How is that significantly better? 284 vs 287?

sure, anybody can pick and choose games you like. I'm using the stretch of 4 games in a row, while Moss was here, that you wanted.

Here, let's compare to games Moss was NOT here. To keep things from getting too cluttered, I'll post just the season production over 16 games based on those averages, you can check it if you want.

Over 16 games with Moss: (week 5, 6, 7, 8)
76 rec, 1144 yards, 8 td.

Over 16 games without Moss: (including Week 1, 2, 3, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15, 16, 17 averaged)
83 rec, 929 yds, 5 TD

Over 16 games with Rice (averaging weeks 11, 12, 15, 16)
76 rec, 864 yards, 4 td.

Numbers don't like. Harvin was more productive with Moss than without. He had fewer catches, but more yards and TD's.
The problem is that you are using numbers/dates/games were Harvin was either out or tried to go but couldn't to get your averages. I left those out cause they are in essence skewers of data.

In short, I used the actual yards from games he actually played in. Not something that didn't apply.

i_bleed_purple
07-29-2011, 01:31 PM
Let me help you. During the 4 weeks Moss was here, he got
287 yards,-> 33% of his season total
71.75ypg compared to his 62 ypg avg.
2 TD's, 40% of his season total.
.5td/g vs. .357td/g
19 catches, 26% of his season total.
4.75 rec/g vs. 5.07

So during Moss's tenure here, Harvin exceeded his seaason averages in every important category.

But of course you choose to dismiss that as always, choosing to instead claim that Favre throwing for a career high the week Moss got released means Moss hurts the team.


Come on. In every important category, Moss improved our offense simply by being on the field...and that includes being hamstrung by a moron HC and a unqualified OC.

Caine
LOL, I think you better check your math. As you can see, when someone post the actual stats your logic is flawed.

Go back, revisist the stats page and see if you can come up with some other obscure way to try to make your point cause this isn't working.

In short, don't help anymore..........snicker......:woohoo:

ah yes, the good old, "I don't like those numbers, so I'll pretend they're wrong"

Again, enligten me, in what way are they incorrect?

http://www.nfl.com/player/percyharvin/80425/gamelogs
In weeks 5, 6, 7 and 8 , Percy put up numbers of.

5 rec, 97 yards, 2 td
3 rec, 21 yards
5 rec, 65 yards
6 rec, 104 yards
For a total of:
19 rec, 286 yards, 2 td

over a span of the season, that rate accounts for 76 rec, 1144 yards, 8 td.

Since Percy missed 2 games, using his game averages, he would have had:
81 rec, 992 yards, 6 td

Looks an awful lot to me like Percy's production per game was better with Moss than normally.

But no, go ahead and keep telling yourself that 992 > 1144. It makes sense... :whistle:
But I agree with those numbers.

Weeks 3, 9, 11, and 12 he had
62
126
64
32
for a total of 284

How is that significantly better? 284 vs 287?

sure, anybody can pick and choose games you like. I'm using the stretch of 4 games in a row, while Moss was here, that you wanted.

Here, let's compare to games Moss was NOT here. To keep things from getting too cluttered, I'll post just the season production over 16 games based on those averages, you can check it if you want.

Over 16 games with Moss: (week 5, 6, 7, 8)
76 rec, 1144 yards, 8 td.

Over 16 games without Moss: (including Week 1, 2, 3, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15, 16, 17 averaged)
83 rec, 929 yds, 5 TD

Over 16 games with Rice (averaging weeks 11, 12, 15, 16)
76 rec, 864 yards, 4 td.

Numbers don't like. Harvin was more productive with Moss than without. He had fewer catches, but more yards and TD's.
The problem is that you are using numbers/dates/games were Harvin was either out or tried to go but couldn't to get your averages. I left those out cause they are in essence skewers of data.

In short, I used the actual yards from games he actually played in. Not something that didn't apply.

then explain why Harvins y/catch average is so much higher with Moss than any other scenario. Sure, if Harvin went in a game and came out early, that will lower his catches and total yards, but his average per reception will still be unaffected.

Marrdro
07-29-2011, 01:38 PM
Let me help you. During the 4 weeks Moss was here, he got
287 yards,-> 33% of his season total
71.75ypg compared to his 62 ypg avg.
2 TD's, 40% of his season total.
.5td/g vs. .357td/g
19 catches, 26% of his season total.
4.75 rec/g vs. 5.07

So during Moss's tenure here, Harvin exceeded his seaason averages in every important category.

But of course you choose to dismiss that as always, choosing to instead claim that Favre throwing for a career high the week Moss got released means Moss hurts the team.


Come on. In every important category, Moss improved our offense simply by being on the field...and that includes being hamstrung by a moron HC and a unqualified OC.

Caine
LOL, I think you better check your math. As you can see, when someone post the actual stats your logic is flawed.

Go back, revisist the stats page and see if you can come up with some other obscure way to try to make your point cause this isn't working.

In short, don't help anymore..........snicker......:woohoo:

ah yes, the good old, "I don't like those numbers, so I'll pretend they're wrong"

Again, enligten me, in what way are they incorrect?

http://www.nfl.com/player/percyharvin/80425/gamelogs
In weeks 5, 6, 7 and 8 , Percy put up numbers of.

5 rec, 97 yards, 2 td
3 rec, 21 yards
5 rec, 65 yards
6 rec, 104 yards
For a total of:
19 rec, 286 yards, 2 td

over a span of the season, that rate accounts for 76 rec, 1144 yards, 8 td.

Since Percy missed 2 games, using his game averages, he would have had:
81 rec, 992 yards, 6 td

Looks an awful lot to me like Percy's production per game was better with Moss than normally.

But no, go ahead and keep telling yourself that 992 > 1144. It makes sense... :whistle:
But I agree with those numbers.

Weeks 3, 9, 11, and 12 he had
62
126
64
32
for a total of 284

How is that significantly better? 284 vs 287?

sure, anybody can pick and choose games you like. I'm using the stretch of 4 games in a row, while Moss was here, that you wanted.

Here, let's compare to games Moss was NOT here. To keep things from getting too cluttered, I'll post just the season production over 16 games based on those averages, you can check it if you want.

Over 16 games with Moss: (week 5, 6, 7, 8)
76 rec, 1144 yards, 8 td.

Over 16 games without Moss: (including Week 1, 2, 3, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15, 16, 17 averaged)
83 rec, 929 yds, 5 TD

Over 16 games with Rice (averaging weeks 11, 12, 15, 16)
76 rec, 864 yards, 4 td.

Numbers don't like. Harvin was more productive with Moss than without. He had fewer catches, but more yards and TD's.
The problem is that you are using numbers/dates/games were Harvin was either out or tried to go but couldn't to get your averages. I left those out cause they are in essence skewers of data.

In short, I used the actual yards from games he actually played in. Not something that didn't apply.

then explain why Harvins y/catch average is so much higher with Moss than any other scenario. Sure, if Harvin went in a game and came out early, that will lower his catches and total yards, but his average per reception will still be unaffected.
Go back, look at the yards per game vs games he actualy played in.

With Moss is 287, without Moss its 284.

Whats even more interesting in all this (and what Caine ignored from my very first post on this) is that the team didn't get better.

Running game worsened. Noodles avg worsened. Only thing that actualy went up was the passing game and by only a bit over 5 yards.

To say that Harvins increase (.5) yards is a stretch at best even though I will give it to him.

Again, I only used games for Harvin were he actually was listed as healthy before the game and played the game. The 3 that he tried to go I threw out (and gave the yards leader) along with the ones he didn't even play in. Using those to get your averages will make the numbers look like what you want them to look like.

i_bleed_purple
07-29-2011, 01:41 PM
Let me help you. During the 4 weeks Moss was here, he got
287 yards,-> 33% of his season total
71.75ypg compared to his 62 ypg avg.
2 TD's, 40% of his season total.
.5td/g vs. .357td/g
19 catches, 26% of his season total.
4.75 rec/g vs. 5.07

So during Moss's tenure here, Harvin exceeded his seaason averages in every important category.

But of course you choose to dismiss that as always, choosing to instead claim that Favre throwing for a career high the week Moss got released means Moss hurts the team.


Come on. In every important category, Moss improved our offense simply by being on the field...and that includes being hamstrung by a moron HC and a unqualified OC.

Caine
LOL, I think you better check your math. As you can see, when someone post the actual stats your logic is flawed.

Go back, revisist the stats page and see if you can come up with some other obscure way to try to make your point cause this isn't working.

In short, don't help anymore..........snicker......:woohoo:

ah yes, the good old, "I don't like those numbers, so I'll pretend they're wrong"

Again, enligten me, in what way are they incorrect?

http://www.nfl.com/player/percyharvin/80425/gamelogs
In weeks 5, 6, 7 and 8 , Percy put up numbers of.

5 rec, 97 yards, 2 td
3 rec, 21 yards
5 rec, 65 yards
6 rec, 104 yards
For a total of:
19 rec, 286 yards, 2 td

over a span of the season, that rate accounts for 76 rec, 1144 yards, 8 td.

Since Percy missed 2 games, using his game averages, he would have had:
81 rec, 992 yards, 6 td

Looks an awful lot to me like Percy's production per game was better with Moss than normally.

But no, go ahead and keep telling yourself that 992 > 1144. It makes sense... :whistle:
But I agree with those numbers.

Weeks 3, 9, 11, and 12 he had
62
126
64
32
for a total of 284

How is that significantly better? 284 vs 287?

sure, anybody can pick and choose games you like. I'm using the stretch of 4 games in a row, while Moss was here, that you wanted.

Here, let's compare to games Moss was NOT here. To keep things from getting too cluttered, I'll post just the season production over 16 games based on those averages, you can check it if you want.

Over 16 games with Moss: (week 5, 6, 7, 8)
76 rec, 1144 yards, 8 td.

Over 16 games without Moss: (including Week 1, 2, 3, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15, 16, 17 averaged)
83 rec, 929 yds, 5 TD

Over 16 games with Rice (averaging weeks 11, 12, 15, 16)
76 rec, 864 yards, 4 td.

Numbers don't like. Harvin was more productive with Moss than without. He had fewer catches, but more yards and TD's.
The problem is that you are using numbers/dates/games were Harvin was either out or tried to go but couldn't to get your averages. I left those out cause they are in essence skewers of data.

In short, I used the actual yards from games he actually played in. Not something that didn't apply.

then explain why Harvins y/catch average is so much higher with Moss than any other scenario. Sure, if Harvin went in a game and came out early, that will lower his catches and total yards, but his average per reception will still be unaffected.
Go back, look at the yards per game vs games he actualy played in.

With Moss is 287, without Moss its 284.

Whats even more interesting in all this (and what Caine ignored from my very first post on this) is that the team didn't get better.

Running game worsened. Noodles avg worsened. Only thing that actualy went up was the passing game and by only a bit over 5 yards.

To say that Harvins increase (.5) yards is a stretch at best even though I will give it to him.

Again, I only used games for Harvin were he actually was listed as healthy before the game and played the game. The 3 that he tried to go I threw out (and gave the yards leader) along with the ones he didn't even play in. Using those to get your averages will make the numbers look like what you want them to look like.

Ah, so we're playing pick and choose then? Ok.

Using week 5 stats, Harvin was on pace for 80 rec, 1552 yds, 32 td

This is fun.

When you can pick and choose to ignore games just because he had fewer yards, yeah, you can make the stats look like you want.

Question, why did Harvin get hurt in a game? Maybe that safety wouldn't have been there if Moss was in?

Marrdro
07-29-2011, 02:02 PM
Let me help you. During the 4 weeks Moss was here, he got
287 yards,-> 33% of his season total
71.75ypg compared to his 62 ypg avg.
2 TD's, 40% of his season total.
.5td/g vs. .357td/g
19 catches, 26% of his season total.
4.75 rec/g vs. 5.07

So during Moss's tenure here, Harvin exceeded his seaason averages in every important category.

But of course you choose to dismiss that as always, choosing to instead claim that Favre throwing for a career high the week Moss got released means Moss hurts the team.


Come on. In every important category, Moss improved our offense simply by being on the field...and that includes being hamstrung by a moron HC and a unqualified OC.

Caine
LOL, I think you better check your math. As you can see, when someone post the actual stats your logic is flawed.

Go back, revisist the stats page and see if you can come up with some other obscure way to try to make your point cause this isn't working.

In short, don't help anymore..........snicker......:woohoo:

ah yes, the good old, "I don't like those numbers, so I'll pretend they're wrong"

Again, enligten me, in what way are they incorrect?

http://www.nfl.com/player/percyharvin/80425/gamelogs
In weeks 5, 6, 7 and 8 , Percy put up numbers of.

5 rec, 97 yards, 2 td
3 rec, 21 yards
5 rec, 65 yards
6 rec, 104 yards
For a total of:
19 rec, 286 yards, 2 td

over a span of the season, that rate accounts for 76 rec, 1144 yards, 8 td.

Since Percy missed 2 games, using his game averages, he would have had:
81 rec, 992 yards, 6 td

Looks an awful lot to me like Percy's production per game was better with Moss than normally.

But no, go ahead and keep telling yourself that 992 > 1144. It makes sense... :whistle:
But I agree with those numbers.

Weeks 3, 9, 11, and 12 he had
62
126
64
32
for a total of 284

How is that significantly better? 284 vs 287?

sure, anybody can pick and choose games you like. I'm using the stretch of 4 games in a row, while Moss was here, that you wanted.

Here, let's compare to games Moss was NOT here. To keep things from getting too cluttered, I'll post just the season production over 16 games based on those averages, you can check it if you want.

Over 16 games with Moss: (week 5, 6, 7, 8)
76 rec, 1144 yards, 8 td.

Over 16 games without Moss: (including Week 1, 2, 3, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15, 16, 17 averaged)
83 rec, 929 yds, 5 TD

Over 16 games with Rice (averaging weeks 11, 12, 15, 16)
76 rec, 864 yards, 4 td.

Numbers don't like. Harvin was more productive with Moss than without. He had fewer catches, but more yards and TD's.
The problem is that you are using numbers/dates/games were Harvin was either out or tried to go but couldn't to get your averages. I left those out cause they are in essence skewers of data.

In short, I used the actual yards from games he actually played in. Not something that didn't apply.

then explain why Harvins y/catch average is so much higher with Moss than any other scenario. Sure, if Harvin went in a game and came out early, that will lower his catches and total yards, but his average per reception will still be unaffected.
Go back, look at the yards per game vs games he actualy played in.

With Moss is 287, without Moss its 284.

Whats even more interesting in all this (and what Caine ignored from my very first post on this) is that the team didn't get better.

Running game worsened. Noodles avg worsened. Only thing that actualy went up was the passing game and by only a bit over 5 yards.

To say that Harvins increase (.5) yards is a stretch at best even though I will give it to him.

Again, I only used games for Harvin were he actually was listed as healthy before the game and played the game. The 3 that he tried to go I threw out (and gave the yards leader) along with the ones he didn't even play in. Using those to get your averages will make the numbers look like what you want them to look like.

Ah, so we're playing pick and choose then? Ok.

Using week 5 stats, Harvin was on pace for 80 rec, 1552 yds, 32 td

This is fun.

When you can pick and choose to ignore games just because he had fewer yards, yeah, you can make the stats look like you want.

Question, why did Harvin get hurt in a game? Maybe that safety wouldn't have been there if Moss was in?
But I'm not playing pick and choose.

Look at the stats for the Noodle. Down.
Look at the stats for AD. Down.
Look at the stats for top reciever. Up.

Only thing I did selectively was to leave out the games he didn't even dress and the 3 that he tried to go but couldn't.

You can play what if all you want. All I did is list the data and tell you what I got for figures. Not that hard, (well, maybe in your case it is) to understand. :P

kevoncox
07-29-2011, 02:23 PM
Marr,
You aren't counting the teams we played.
Bears, GB, Pats and Jets are a fearsome bunch of defenses.
Our numbers fluctuated based on this fact. However, Percy flourished. It's not hard to believe that a WR who's best asset is his ability to make people miss in open space as oppose to route running and out jumping cbs, would flourish in the Slot as opposed to being a flanker or Split End? Common sense would see Harvin's skill set and realize that the slot position is where he would do the most damage. Our offense looked healthier. Lets forget the stats. We looked polished, except for one spaghetti armed Qb who kept throwing Ints because he forgot his reading glasses.

Caine
07-29-2011, 02:31 PM
Let me help you. During the 4 weeks Moss was here, he got
287 yards,-> 33% of his season total
71.75ypg compared to his 62 ypg avg.
2 TD's, 40% of his season total.
.5td/g vs. .357td/g
19 catches, 26% of his season total.
4.75 rec/g vs. 5.07

So during Moss's tenure here, Harvin exceeded his seaason averages in every important category.

But of course you choose to dismiss that as always, choosing to instead claim that Favre throwing for a career high the week Moss got released means Moss hurts the team.


Come on. In every important category, Moss improved our offense simply by being on the field...and that includes being hamstrung by a moron HC and a unqualified OC.

Caine
LOL, I think you better check your math. As you can see, when someone post the actual stats your logic is flawed.

Go back, revisist the stats page and see if you can come up with some other obscure way to try to make your point cause this isn't working.

In short, don't help anymore..........snicker......:woohoo:

ah yes, the good old, "I don't like those numbers, so I'll pretend they're wrong"

Again, enligten me, in what way are they incorrect?

http://www.nfl.com/player/percyharvin/80425/gamelogs
In weeks 5, 6, 7 and 8 , Percy put up numbers of.

5 rec, 97 yards, 2 td
3 rec, 21 yards
5 rec, 65 yards
6 rec, 104 yards
For a total of:
19 rec, 286 yards, 2 td

over a span of the season, that rate accounts for 76 rec, 1144 yards, 8 td.

Since Percy missed 2 games, using his game averages, he would have had:
81 rec, 992 yards, 6 td

Looks an awful lot to me like Percy's production per game was better with Moss than normally.

But no, go ahead and keep telling yourself that 992 > 1144. It makes sense... :whistle:
But I agree with those numbers.

Weeks 3, 9, 11, and 12 he had
62
126
64
32
for a total of 284

How is that significantly better? 284 vs 287?

sure, anybody can pick and choose games you like. I'm using the stretch of 4 games in a row, while Moss was here, that you wanted.

Here, let's compare to games Moss was NOT here. To keep things from getting too cluttered, I'll post just the season production over 16 games based on those averages, you can check it if you want.

Over 16 games with Moss: (week 5, 6, 7, 8)
76 rec, 1144 yards, 8 td.

Over 16 games without Moss: (including Week 1, 2, 3, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15, 16, 17 averaged)
83 rec, 929 yds, 5 TD

Over 16 games with Rice (averaging weeks 11, 12, 15, 16)
76 rec, 864 yards, 4 td.

Numbers don't like. Harvin was more productive with Moss than without. He had fewer catches, but more yards and TD's.
The problem is that you are using numbers/dates/games were Harvin was either out or tried to go but couldn't to get your averages. I left those out cause they are in essence skewers of data.

In short, I used the actual yards from games he actually played in. Not something that didn't apply.

then explain why Harvins y/catch average is so much higher with Moss than any other scenario. Sure, if Harvin went in a game and came out early, that will lower his catches and total yards, but his average per reception will still be unaffected.
Go back, look at the yards per game vs games he actualy played in.

With Moss is 287, without Moss its 284.

Whats even more interesting in all this (and what Caine ignored from my very first post on this) is that the team didn't get better.

Running game worsened. Noodles avg worsened. Only thing that actualy went up was the passing game and by only a bit over 5 yards.

To say that Harvins increase (.5) yards is a stretch at best even though I will give it to him.

Again, I only used games for Harvin were he actually was listed as healthy before the game and played the game. The 3 that he tried to go I threw out (and gave the yards leader) along with the ones he didn't even play in. Using those to get your averages will make the numbers look like what you want them to look like.

You know, you're quickly approaching that point where you're not very much fun to talk to anymore. Not because you're right about things (you aren't), but because you're so unreasonable about....EVERYTHING.

When Moss arrived last season, our passing game improved, our running game fell off a touch (despite actually increasing in attempts - unlike your previous assertion in another thread that Moss took carries away from Peterson), and we scored more points...all against top rated teams.

This is compared to a dismal 3 week stretch against 1 previous Superbowl winner and 2 bad teams.

Of course, instead of accepting statistical proof, you have to twist it and turn it in order to PROVE that Moss is worthless.

But lets cut back to the HEART of your assertion - you said Moss didn't add anything to our team. I said he did. The PROOF lies in comparing weeks 1-3 with weeks 5-8. Pre-Moss, and with MOss.

Yes, our total net yards per game didn't increase dramatically, but they DID increase.

Our average gain per play also increased.

As did the average number of rushing plays...by just a smidgen.

Our average yards passing per game jumped up from 199 to 222.25.

But you know what REALLY jumped up? 3rd down efficiency and TDs.

On 3rd down, we were at 34% when Moss got here...we were at 44% while he was here.

We scored a TOTAL of 5 TDs prior to Moss arriving (1.67 per game). We scored 11 while he was here (2.75 per game).

We averaged 14.3 points per game before Moss arrived, and averaged 21.5 with him here.

And all that DESPITE being misused by teh brain trust of Chiller and Bevell.

So, who's talking out their ass? I'd say it's STILL you, Mar...and so would almost everyone else.

But keep trying to spin the stats to deny it.

Or...better yet...claim we "misinterpreted" what you said or "just don't comprehend the game on the same level" that you do...whatever load of shit that helps you save face.

Caine

i_bleed_purple
07-29-2011, 02:35 PM
Let me help you. During the 4 weeks Moss was here, he got
287 yards,-> 33% of his season total
71.75ypg compared to his 62 ypg avg.
2 TD's, 40% of his season total.
.5td/g vs. .357td/g
19 catches, 26% of his season total.
4.75 rec/g vs. 5.07

So during Moss's tenure here, Harvin exceeded his seaason averages in every important category.

But of course you choose to dismiss that as always, choosing to instead claim that Favre throwing for a career high the week Moss got released means Moss hurts the team.


Come on. In every important category, Moss improved our offense simply by being on the field...and that includes being hamstrung by a moron HC and a unqualified OC.

Caine
LOL, I think you better check your math. As you can see, when someone post the actual stats your logic is flawed.

Go back, revisist the stats page and see if you can come up with some other obscure way to try to make your point cause this isn't working.

In short, don't help anymore..........snicker......:woohoo:

ah yes, the good old, "I don't like those numbers, so I'll pretend they're wrong"

Again, enligten me, in what way are they incorrect?

http://www.nfl.com/player/percyharvin/80425/gamelogs
In weeks 5, 6, 7 and 8 , Percy put up numbers of.

5 rec, 97 yards, 2 td
3 rec, 21 yards
5 rec, 65 yards
6 rec, 104 yards
For a total of:
19 rec, 286 yards, 2 td

over a span of the season, that rate accounts for 76 rec, 1144 yards, 8 td.

Since Percy missed 2 games, using his game averages, he would have had:
81 rec, 992 yards, 6 td

Looks an awful lot to me like Percy's production per game was better with Moss than normally.

But no, go ahead and keep telling yourself that 992 > 1144. It makes sense... :whistle:
But I agree with those numbers.

Weeks 3, 9, 11, and 12 he had
62
126
64
32
for a total of 284

How is that significantly better? 284 vs 287?

sure, anybody can pick and choose games you like. I'm using the stretch of 4 games in a row, while Moss was here, that you wanted.

Here, let's compare to games Moss was NOT here. To keep things from getting too cluttered, I'll post just the season production over 16 games based on those averages, you can check it if you want.

Over 16 games with Moss: (week 5, 6, 7, 8)
76 rec, 1144 yards, 8 td.

Over 16 games without Moss: (including Week 1, 2, 3, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15, 16, 17 averaged)
83 rec, 929 yds, 5 TD

Over 16 games with Rice (averaging weeks 11, 12, 15, 16)
76 rec, 864 yards, 4 td.

Numbers don't like. Harvin was more productive with Moss than without. He had fewer catches, but more yards and TD's.
The problem is that you are using numbers/dates/games were Harvin was either out or tried to go but couldn't to get your averages. I left those out cause they are in essence skewers of data.

In short, I used the actual yards from games he actually played in. Not something that didn't apply.

then explain why Harvins y/catch average is so much higher with Moss than any other scenario. Sure, if Harvin went in a game and came out early, that will lower his catches and total yards, but his average per reception will still be unaffected.
Go back, look at the yards per game vs games he actualy played in.

With Moss is 287, without Moss its 284.

Whats even more interesting in all this (and what Caine ignored from my very first post on this) is that the team didn't get better.

Running game worsened. Noodles avg worsened. Only thing that actualy went up was the passing game and by only a bit over 5 yards.

To say that Harvins increase (.5) yards is a stretch at best even though I will give it to him.

Again, I only used games for Harvin were he actually was listed as healthy before the game and played the game. The 3 that he tried to go I threw out (and gave the yards leader) along with the ones he didn't even play in. Using those to get your averages will make the numbers look like what you want them to look like.

You know, you're quickly approaching that point where you're not very much fun to talk to anymore. Not because you're right about things (you aren't), but because you're so unreasonable about....EVERYTHING.

When Moss arrived last season, our passing game improved, our running game fell off a touch (despite actually increasing in attempts - unlike your previous assertion in another thread that Moss took carries away from Peterson), and we scored more points...all against top rated teams.

This is compared to a dismal 3 week stretch against 1 previous Superbowl winner and 2 bad teams.

Of course, instead of accepting statistical proof, you have to twist it and turn it in order to PROVE that Moss is worthless.

But lets cut back to the HEART of your assertion - you said Moss didn't add anything to our team. I said he did. The PROOF lies in comp[aring weeks 1-3 with weeks 5-8. Pre-Moss, and with MOss.

Yes, our total net yards per game didn't increase dramatically, but they DID increase.

Our average gain per play also increased.

As did the average number of rushing plays...by just a smidgen.

Our average yards passing per game jumped up from 199 to 222.25.

But you know what REALLY jumped up? 3rd down efficiency and TDs.

On 3rd down, we were at 34% when Moss got here...we were at 44% while he was here.

We scored a TOTAL of 5 TDs prior to Moss arriving (1.67 per game). We scored 11 while he was here (2.75 per game).

We averaged 14.3 points per game before Moss arrived, and averaged 21.5 with him here.

And all that DESPITE being misused by teh brain trust of Chiller and Bevell.

So, who's talking out their ass? I'd say it's STILL you, Mar...and so would almost everyone else.

But keep trying to spin the stats to deny it.

Or...better yet...claim we "misinterpreted" what you said or "just don't comprehend the game on the same level" that you do...whatever load of shit that helps you save face.

Caine
Caine my friend, I think you got "lost in the discussion"

Caine
07-29-2011, 02:37 PM
Let me help you. During the 4 weeks Moss was here, he got
287 yards,-> 33% of his season total
71.75ypg compared to his 62 ypg avg.
2 TD's, 40% of his season total.
.5td/g vs. .357td/g
19 catches, 26% of his season total.
4.75 rec/g vs. 5.07

So during Moss's tenure here, Harvin exceeded his seaason averages in every important category.

But of course you choose to dismiss that as always, choosing to instead claim that Favre throwing for a career high the week Moss got released means Moss hurts the team.


Come on. In every important category, Moss improved our offense simply by being on the field...and that includes being hamstrung by a moron HC and a unqualified OC.

Caine
LOL, I think you better check your math. As you can see, when someone post the actual stats your logic is flawed.

Go back, revisist the stats page and see if you can come up with some other obscure way to try to make your point cause this isn't working.

In short, don't help anymore..........snicker......:woohoo:

ah yes, the good old, "I don't like those numbers, so I'll pretend they're wrong"

Again, enligten me, in what way are they incorrect?

http://www.nfl.com/player/percyharvin/80425/gamelogs
In weeks 5, 6, 7 and 8 , Percy put up numbers of.

5 rec, 97 yards, 2 td
3 rec, 21 yards
5 rec, 65 yards
6 rec, 104 yards
For a total of:
19 rec, 286 yards, 2 td

over a span of the season, that rate accounts for 76 rec, 1144 yards, 8 td.

Since Percy missed 2 games, using his game averages, he would have had:
81 rec, 992 yards, 6 td

Looks an awful lot to me like Percy's production per game was better with Moss than normally.

But no, go ahead and keep telling yourself that 992 > 1144. It makes sense... :whistle:
But I agree with those numbers.

Weeks 3, 9, 11, and 12 he had
62
126
64
32
for a total of 284

How is that significantly better? 284 vs 287?

sure, anybody can pick and choose games you like. I'm using the stretch of 4 games in a row, while Moss was here, that you wanted.

Here, let's compare to games Moss was NOT here. To keep things from getting too cluttered, I'll post just the season production over 16 games based on those averages, you can check it if you want.

Over 16 games with Moss: (week 5, 6, 7, 8)
76 rec, 1144 yards, 8 td.

Over 16 games without Moss: (including Week 1, 2, 3, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15, 16, 17 averaged)
83 rec, 929 yds, 5 TD

Over 16 games with Rice (averaging weeks 11, 12, 15, 16)
76 rec, 864 yards, 4 td.

Numbers don't like. Harvin was more productive with Moss than without. He had fewer catches, but more yards and TD's.
The problem is that you are using numbers/dates/games were Harvin was either out or tried to go but couldn't to get your averages. I left those out cause they are in essence skewers of data.

In short, I used the actual yards from games he actually played in. Not something that didn't apply.

then explain why Harvins y/catch average is so much higher with Moss than any other scenario. Sure, if Harvin went in a game and came out early, that will lower his catches and total yards, but his average per reception will still be unaffected.
Go back, look at the yards per game vs games he actualy played in.

With Moss is 287, without Moss its 284.

Whats even more interesting in all this (and what Caine ignored from my very first post on this) is that the team didn't get better.

Running game worsened. Noodles avg worsened. Only thing that actualy went up was the passing game and by only a bit over 5 yards.

To say that Harvins increase (.5) yards is a stretch at best even though I will give it to him.

Again, I only used games for Harvin were he actually was listed as healthy before the game and played the game. The 3 that he tried to go I threw out (and gave the yards leader) along with the ones he didn't even play in. Using those to get your averages will make the numbers look like what you want them to look like.

You know, you're quickly approaching that point where you're not very much fun to talk to anymore. Not because you're right about things (you aren't), but because you're so unreasonable about....EVERYTHING.

When Moss arrived last season, our passing game improved, our running game fell off a touch (despite actually increasing in attempts - unlike your previous assertion in another thread that Moss took carries away from Peterson), and we scored more points...all against top rated teams.

This is compared to a dismal 3 week stretch against 1 previous Superbowl winner and 2 bad teams.

Of course, instead of accepting statistical proof, you have to twist it and turn it in order to PROVE that Moss is worthless.

But lets cut back to the HEART of your assertion - you said Moss didn't add anything to our team. I said he did. The PROOF lies in comparing weeks 1-3 with weeks 5-8. Pre-Moss, and with MOss.

Yes, our total net yards per game didn't increase dramatically, but they DID increase.

Our average gain per play also increased.

As did the average number of rushing plays...by just a smidgen.

Our average yards passing per game jumped up from 199 to 222.25.

But you know what REALLY jumped up? 3rd down efficiency and TDs.

On 3rd down, we were at 34% when Moss got here...we were at 44% while he was here.

We scored a TOTAL of 5 TDs prior to Moss arriving (1.67 per game). We scored 11 while he was here (2.75 per game).

We averaged 14.3 points per game before Moss arrived, and averaged 21.5 with him here.

And all that DESPITE being misused by teh brain trust of Chiller and Bevell.

So, who's talking out their ass? I'd say it's STILL you, Mar...and so would almost everyone else.

But keep trying to spin the stats to deny it.

Or...better yet...claim we "misinterpreted" what you said or "just don't comprehend the game on the same level" that you do...whatever load of shit that helps you save face.

Caine
Caine my friend, I think you got "lost in the discussion"

I do that a lot.

Marrdro
07-29-2011, 02:41 PM
[quote="Caine"
You know, you're quickly approaching that point where you're not very much fun to talk to anymore. Not because you're right about things (you aren't), but because you're so unreasonable about....EVERYTHING.

When Moss arrived last season, our passing game improved, our running game fell off a touch (despite actually increasing in attempts - unlike your previous assertion in another thread that Moss took carries away from Peterson), and we scored more points...all against top rated teams.

This is compared to a dismal 3 week stretch against 1 previous Superbowl winner and 2 bad teams.

Of course, instead of accepting statistical proof, you have to twist it and turn it in order to PROVE that Moss is worthless.

But lets cut back to the HEART of your assertion - you said Moss didn't add anything to our team. I said he did. The PROOF lies in comp[aring weeks 1-3 with weeks 5-8. Pre-Moss, and with MOss.

Yes, our total net yards per game didn't increase dramatically, but they DID increase.

Our average gain per play also increased.

As did the average number of rushing plays...by just a smidgen.

Our average yards passing per game jumped up from 199 to 222.25.

But you know what REALLY jumped up? 3rd down efficiency and TDs.

On 3rd down, we were at 34% when Moss got here...we were at 44% while he was here.

We scored a TOTAL of 5 TDs prior to Moss arriving (1.67 per game). We scored 11 while he was here (2.75 per game).

We averaged 14.3 points per game before Moss arrived, and averaged 21.5 with him here.

And all that DESPITE being misused by teh brain trust of Chiller and Bevell.

So, who's talking out their ass? I'd say it's STILL you, Mar...and so would almost everyone else.

But keep trying to spin the stats to deny it.

Or...better yet...claim we "misinterpreted" what you said or "just don't comprehend the game on the same level" that you do...whatever load of shit that helps you save face.

Caine[/quote]
You know I'm not as smart as you. All I did was put up the numbers based on the criteria you used.

Farves were down.
Running game was down.
Recieving was up by a bit over 5 yards.
Percies, as you said, was up but by what, .something.

On a side note, don't forget, when I first posted stats on this, I did the same numbers as I just posted cause its the numbers they used on NFLN, which I referenced.

Now you want to go into points per game ect ect ect. OK, I give, your right. LOL.

Caine
07-29-2011, 02:54 PM
You know, you're quickly approaching that point where you're not very much fun to talk to anymore. Not because you're right about things (you aren't), but because you're so unreasonable about....EVERYTHING.

When Moss arrived last season, our passing game improved, our running game fell off a touch (despite actually increasing in attempts - unlike your previous assertion in another thread that Moss took carries away from Peterson), and we scored more points...all against top rated teams.

This is compared to a dismal 3 week stretch against 1 previous Superbowl winner and 2 bad teams.

Of course, instead of accepting statistical proof, you have to twist it and turn it in order to PROVE that Moss is worthless.

But lets cut back to the HEART of your assertion - you said Moss didn't add anything to our team. I said he did. The PROOF lies in comparing weeks 1-3 with weeks 5-8. Pre-Moss, and with MOss.

Yes, our total net yards per game didn't increase dramatically, but they DID increase.

Our average gain per play also increased.

As did the average number of rushing plays...by just a smidgen.

Our average yards passing per game jumped up from 199 to 222.25.

But you know what REALLY jumped up? 3rd down efficiency and TDs.

On 3rd down, we were at 34% when Moss got here...we were at 44% while he was here.

We scored a TOTAL of 5 TDs prior to Moss arriving (1.67 per game). We scored 11 while he was here (2.75 per game).

We averaged 14.3 points per game before Moss arrived, and averaged 21.5 with him here.

And all that DESPITE being misused by teh brain trust of Chiller and Bevell.

So, who's talking out their ass? I'd say it's STILL you, Mar...and so would almost everyone else.

But keep trying to spin the stats to deny it.

Or...better yet...claim we "misinterpreted" what you said or "just don't comprehend the game on the same level" that you do...whatever load of shit that helps you save face.

Caine
You know I'm not as smart as you. All I did was put up the numbers based on the criteria you used.

Farves were down.
Running game was down.
Recieving was up by a bit over 5 yards.
Percies, as you said, was up but by what, .something.

On a side note, don't forget, when I first posted stats on this, I did the same numbers as I just posted cause its the numbers they used on NFLN, which I referenced.

Now you want to go into points per game ect ect ect. OK, I give, your right. LOL.

When this first broke, you posted no numbers. You simply said that Moss was a waste, and assumed that we would all bow to your superior insight due to those books you read about football...

We didn't.

My assertion was, and always has been, that our team improved with Moss here. Individuals went up or down, but the TEAM overall went UP. The two GREATEST indicators of that are 3rd down efficiency and Score...both of which jumped up when Moss got here.

Also, I never set limits or conditions on what was a part of the discussion. You said Moss was worthless...that sort of implies a broad generalization.

I have beaten that assertion to death EVERY TIME, under EVERY condition...you just fail to accept it. Just like you failed to accept that Chiller had to go. Just like you failed to accept that Favre was better than Jackson. Just like you failed to accept that Jackson wasn't going top work out here.

See a pattern?

You spend a lot of time being wrong, then arguing your not REALLY wrong because we aren't as educated or capable of seeing the REAL game. What was it you said in another thread? Something like, "I don't even watch the receivers", implying that your insight and wisdom is so great that you watch the super-secret MEANINGFUL part of the game, while the rest of us simply sit in front of the TV, picking our asses and flinging poo at each other in our collective ignorance.

But for a guy who's so insightful and wise, you sure do find yourself in the "WRONG" column a lot.

Fact is, despite your route numbers and "insights", Moss breathed a spark of life into our offense. He was misused by Chiller and Bevell, and ultimately cut (because Chiller was an idiot), but WHILE HE WAS HERE, we were BETTER.

But again, let your player hate find yet another bullshit reason to hate someone. You spent almost 3 years of blind hate on Favre...why stop now?

Caine

Marrdro
07-29-2011, 03:00 PM
[quote="Caine"
You know, you're quickly approaching that point where you're not very much fun to talk to anymore. Not because you're right about things (you aren't), but because you're so unreasonable about....EVERYTHING.

When Moss arrived last season, our passing game improved, our running game fell off a touch (despite actually increasing in attempts - unlike your previous assertion in another thread that Moss took carries away from Peterson), and we scored more points...all against top rated teams.

This is compared to a dismal 3 week stretch against 1 previous Superbowl winner and 2 bad teams.

Of course, instead of accepting statistical proof, you have to twist it and turn it in order to PROVE that Moss is worthless.

But lets cut back to the HEART of your assertion - you said Moss didn't add anything to our team. I said he did. The PROOF lies in comparing weeks 1-3 with weeks 5-8. Pre-Moss, and with MOss.

Yes, our total net yards per game didn't increase dramatically, but they DID increase.

Our average gain per play also increased.

As did the average number of rushing plays...by just a smidgen.

Our average yards passing per game jumped up from 199 to 222.25.

But you know what REALLY jumped up? 3rd down efficiency and TDs.

On 3rd down, we were at 34% when Moss got here...we were at 44% while he was here.

We scored a TOTAL of 5 TDs prior to Moss arriving (1.67 per game). We scored 11 while he was here (2.75 per game).

We averaged 14.3 points per game before Moss arrived, and averaged 21.5 with him here.

And all that DESPITE being misused by teh brain trust of Chiller and Bevell.

So, who's talking out their ass? I'd say it's STILL you, Mar...and so would almost everyone else.

But keep trying to spin the stats to deny it.

Or...better yet...claim we "misinterpreted" what you said or "just don't comprehend the game on the same level" that you do...whatever load of shit that helps you save face.

Caine
You know I'm not as smart as you. All I did was put up the numbers based on the criteria you used.

Farves were down.
Running game was down.
Recieving was up by a bit over 5 yards.
Percies, as you said, was up but by what, .something.

On a side note, don't forget, when I first posted stats on this, I did the same numbers as I just posted cause its the numbers they used on NFLN, which I referenced.

Now you want to go into points per game ect ect ect. OK, I give, your right. LOL.

No, tater tot, when this first broke, you posted no numbers. You simply said that Moss was a waste, and assumed that we would all bow to your superior insight due to those books you read about football...

We didn't.

My assertion was, and always has been, that our team improved with Moss here. Individuals went up or down, but the TEAM overall went UP. The two GREATEST indicators of that are 3rd down efficiency and Score...both of which jumped up when Moss got here.

Also, I never set limits or conditions on what was a part of the discussion. You said Moss was worthless...that sort of implies a broad generalization.

I have beaten that assertion to death EVERY TIME, under EVERY condition...you just fail to accept it. Just like you failed to accept that Chiller had to go. Just like you failed to accept that Favre was better than Jackson. Just like you failed to accept that Jackson wasn't going top work out here.

See a pattern?

You spend a lot of time being wrong, then arguing your not REALLY wrong because we aren't as educated or capable of seeing the REAL game. What was it you said in another thread? Something like, "I don't even watch the receivers", implying that your insight and wisdom is so great that you watch the super-secret MEANINGFUL part of the game, while the rest of us simply sit in front of the TV, picking our asses and flinging poo at each other in our collective ignorance.

But for a guy who's so insightful and wise, you sure do find yourself in the "WRONG" column a lot.

Fact is, despite your route numbers and "insights", Moss breathed a spark of life into our offense. He was misused by Chiller and Bevell, and ultimately cut (because Chiller was an idiot), but WHILE HE WAS HERE, we were BETTER.

But again, let your player hate find yet another bullshit reason to hate someone. You spent almost 3 years of blind hate on Favre...why stop now?

Caine[/quote]
Tater Tot. Your funny.

Nope, I distinctly remember referencing what Baldy said on NFLN. He showed tape (that I talked about) that showed he wasn't getting doubled and he talked about our averages (the stats I just pulled) and he was correct.

Now if you want to do abunch of other "Fuzzy Math" and talk points, then yes, you are right I am wrong (atleast I am trusting you cause I ain't gonna check).

i_bleed_purple
07-29-2011, 03:03 PM
Tater Tot. Your funny.

Nope, I distinctly remember referencing what Baldy said on NFLN. He showed tape (that I talked about) that showed he wasn't getting doubled and he talked about our averages (the stats I just pulled) and he was correct.

Now if you want to do abunch of other "Fuzzy Math" and talk points, then yes, you are right I am wrong (atleast I am trusting you cause I ain't gonna check).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that also the same guy that sparked your whole "Noodle" campaign?

Marrdro
07-29-2011, 03:05 PM
Tater Tot. Your funny.

Nope, I distinctly remember referencing what Baldy said on NFLN. He showed tape (that I talked about) that showed he wasn't getting doubled and he talked about our averages (the stats I just pulled) and he was correct.

Now if you want to do abunch of other "Fuzzy Math" and talk points, then yes, you are right I am wrong (atleast I am trusting you cause I ain't gonna check).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that also the same guy that sparked your whole "Noodle" campaign?
YUP. See Berrians average.

Caine
07-29-2011, 03:10 PM
[quote="Caine"
You know, you're quickly approaching that point where you're not very much fun to talk to anymore. Not because you're right about things (you aren't), but because you're so unreasonable about....EVERYTHING.

When Moss arrived last season, our passing game improved, our running game fell off a touch (despite actually increasing in attempts - unlike your previous assertion in another thread that Moss took carries away from Peterson), and we scored more points...all against top rated teams.

This is compared to a dismal 3 week stretch against 1 previous Superbowl winner and 2 bad teams.

Of course, instead of accepting statistical proof, you have to twist it and turn it in order to PROVE that Moss is worthless.

But lets cut back to the HEART of your assertion - you said Moss didn't add anything to our team. I said he did. The PROOF lies in comparing weeks 1-3 with weeks 5-8. Pre-Moss, and with MOss.

Yes, our total net yards per game didn't increase dramatically, but they DID increase.

Our average gain per play also increased.

As did the average number of rushing plays...by just a smidgen.

Our average yards passing per game jumped up from 199 to 222.25.

But you know what REALLY jumped up? 3rd down efficiency and TDs.

On 3rd down, we were at 34% when Moss got here...we were at 44% while he was here.

We scored a TOTAL of 5 TDs prior to Moss arriving (1.67 per game). We scored 11 while he was here (2.75 per game).

We averaged 14.3 points per game before Moss arrived, and averaged 21.5 with him here.

And all that DESPITE being misused by teh brain trust of Chiller and Bevell.

So, who's talking out their ass? I'd say it's STILL you, Mar...and so would almost everyone else.

But keep trying to spin the stats to deny it.

Or...better yet...claim we "misinterpreted" what you said or "just don't comprehend the game on the same level" that you do...whatever load of shit that helps you save face.

Caine
You know I'm not as smart as you. All I did was put up the numbers based on the criteria you used.

Farves were down.
Running game was down.
Recieving was up by a bit over 5 yards.
Percies, as you said, was up but by what, .something.

On a side note, don't forget, when I first posted stats on this, I did the same numbers as I just posted cause its the numbers they used on NFLN, which I referenced.

Now you want to go into points per game ect ect ect. OK, I give, your right. LOL.

No, tater tot, when this first broke, you posted no numbers. You simply said that Moss was a waste, and assumed that we would all bow to your superior insight due to those books you read about football...

We didn't.

My assertion was, and always has been, that our team improved with Moss here. Individuals went up or down, but the TEAM overall went UP. The two GREATEST indicators of that are 3rd down efficiency and Score...both of which jumped up when Moss got here.

Also, I never set limits or conditions on what was a part of the discussion. You said Moss was worthless...that sort of implies a broad generalization.

I have beaten that assertion to death EVERY TIME, under EVERY condition...you just fail to accept it. Just like you failed to accept that Chiller had to go. Just like you failed to accept that Favre was better than Jackson. Just like you failed to accept that Jackson wasn't going top work out here.

See a pattern?

You spend a lot of time being wrong, then arguing your not REALLY wrong because we aren't as educated or capable of seeing the REAL game. What was it you said in another thread? Something like, "I don't even watch the receivers", implying that your insight and wisdom is so great that you watch the super-secret MEANINGFUL part of the game, while the rest of us simply sit in front of the TV, picking our asses and flinging poo at each other in our collective ignorance.

But for a guy who's so insightful and wise, you sure do find yourself in the "WRONG" column a lot.

Fact is, despite your route numbers and "insights", Moss breathed a spark of life into our offense. He was misused by Chiller and Bevell, and ultimately cut (because Chiller was an idiot), but WHILE HE WAS HERE, we were BETTER.

But again, let your player hate find yet another bullshit reason to hate someone. You spent almost 3 years of blind hate on Favre...why stop now?

Caine
Tater Tot. Your funny.

Nope, I distinctly remember referencing what Baldy said on NFLN. He showed tape (that I talked about) that showed he wasn't getting doubled and he talked about our averages (the stats I just pulled) and he was correct.

Now if you want to do abunch of other "Fuzzy Math" and talk points, then yes, you are right I am wrong (atleast I am trusting you cause I ain't gonna check).[/quote]

You're basing your ENTIRE campaign on what Brian Baldinger said?!?!?!? Are you KIDDING me?!?!?!?

And I'm sorry if statistics and averages pulled from game logs on NFL.com is now considered "fuzzy math"...

..but then, from a guy who considers BleacherReport to be "thought provoking", I should probably expect that.

Maybe if I blog that Moss is awesome on BR, you'll jump on the bandwagon...

...Brian Baldinger...what a moron...

Caine

i_bleed_purple
07-29-2011, 03:27 PM
[quote="Caine"
You know, you're quickly approaching that point where you're not very much fun to talk to anymore. Not because you're right about things (you aren't), but because you're so unreasonable about....EVERYTHING.

When Moss arrived last season, our passing game improved, our running game fell off a touch (despite actually increasing in attempts - unlike your previous assertion in another thread that Moss took carries away from Peterson), and we scored more points...all against top rated teams.

This is compared to a dismal 3 week stretch against 1 previous Superbowl winner and 2 bad teams.

Of course, instead of accepting statistical proof, you have to twist it and turn it in order to PROVE that Moss is worthless.

But lets cut back to the HEART of your assertion - you said Moss didn't add anything to our team. I said he did. The PROOF lies in comparing weeks 1-3 with weeks 5-8. Pre-Moss, and with MOss.

Yes, our total net yards per game didn't increase dramatically, but they DID increase.

Our average gain per play also increased.

As did the average number of rushing plays...by just a smidgen.

Our average yards passing per game jumped up from 199 to 222.25.

But you know what REALLY jumped up? 3rd down efficiency and TDs.

On 3rd down, we were at 34% when Moss got here...we were at 44% while he was here.

We scored a TOTAL of 5 TDs prior to Moss arriving (1.67 per game). We scored 11 while he was here (2.75 per game).

We averaged 14.3 points per game before Moss arrived, and averaged 21.5 with him here.

And all that DESPITE being misused by teh brain trust of Chiller and Bevell.

So, who's talking out their ass? I'd say it's STILL you, Mar...and so would almost everyone else.

But keep trying to spin the stats to deny it.

Or...better yet...claim we "misinterpreted" what you said or "just don't comprehend the game on the same level" that you do...whatever load of shit that helps you save face.

Caine
You know I'm not as smart as you. All I did was put up the numbers based on the criteria you used.

Farves were down.
Running game was down.
Recieving was up by a bit over 5 yards.
Percies, as you said, was up but by what, .something.

On a side note, don't forget, when I first posted stats on this, I did the same numbers as I just posted cause its the numbers they used on NFLN, which I referenced.

Now you want to go into points per game ect ect ect. OK, I give, your right. LOL.

No, tater tot, when this first broke, you posted no numbers. You simply said that Moss was a waste, and assumed that we would all bow to your superior insight due to those books you read about football...

We didn't.

My assertion was, and always has been, that our team improved with Moss here. Individuals went up or down, but the TEAM overall went UP. The two GREATEST indicators of that are 3rd down efficiency and Score...both of which jumped up when Moss got here.

Also, I never set limits or conditions on what was a part of the discussion. You said Moss was worthless...that sort of implies a broad generalization.

I have beaten that assertion to death EVERY TIME, under EVERY condition...you just fail to accept it. Just like you failed to accept that Chiller had to go. Just like you failed to accept that Favre was better than Jackson. Just like you failed to accept that Jackson wasn't going top work out here.

See a pattern?

You spend a lot of time being wrong, then arguing your not REALLY wrong because we aren't as educated or capable of seeing the REAL game. What was it you said in another thread? Something like, "I don't even watch the receivers", implying that your insight and wisdom is so great that you watch the super-secret MEANINGFUL part of the game, while the rest of us simply sit in front of the TV, picking our asses and flinging poo at each other in our collective ignorance.

But for a guy who's so insightful and wise, you sure do find yourself in the "WRONG" column a lot.

Fact is, despite your route numbers and "insights", Moss breathed a spark of life into our offense. He was misused by Chiller and Bevell, and ultimately cut (because Chiller was an idiot), but WHILE HE WAS HERE, we were BETTER.

But again, let your player hate find yet another bullshit reason to hate someone. You spent almost 3 years of blind hate on Favre...why stop now?

Caine
Tater Tot. Your funny.

Nope, I distinctly remember referencing what Baldy said on NFLN. He showed tape (that I talked about) that showed he wasn't getting doubled and he talked about our averages (the stats I just pulled) and he was correct.

Now if you want to do abunch of other "Fuzzy Math" and talk points, then yes, you are right I am wrong (atleast I am trusting you cause I ain't gonna check).

You're basing your ENTIRE campaign on what Brian Baldinger said?!?!?!? Are you KIDDING me?!?!?!?

And I'm sorry if statistics and averages pulled from game logs on NFL.com is now considered "fuzzy math"...

..but then, from a guy who considers BleacherReport to be "thought provoking", I should probably expect that.

Maybe if I blog that Moss is awesome on BR, you'll jump on the bandwagon...

...Brian Baldinger...what a moron...

Caine[/quote]

I was watching the NFLN, and they were talkinga bout how Marion Barber the third is more exciting to watch than Adrian Peterson.

True story.

Marrdro
07-29-2011, 08:01 PM
[quote="Caine"
You know, you're quickly approaching that point where you're not very much fun to talk to anymore. Not because you're right about things (you aren't), but because you're so unreasonable about....EVERYTHING.

When Moss arrived last season, our passing game improved, our running game fell off a touch (despite actually increasing in attempts - unlike your previous assertion in another thread that Moss took carries away from Peterson), and we scored more points...all against top rated teams.

This is compared to a dismal 3 week stretch against 1 previous Superbowl winner and 2 bad teams.

Of course, instead of accepting statistical proof, you have to twist it and turn it in order to PROVE that Moss is worthless.

But lets cut back to the HEART of your assertion - you said Moss didn't add anything to our team. I said he did. The PROOF lies in comparing weeks 1-3 with weeks 5-8. Pre-Moss, and with MOss.

Yes, our total net yards per game didn't increase dramatically, but they DID increase.

Our average gain per play also increased.

As did the average number of rushing plays...by just a smidgen.

Our average yards passing per game jumped up from 199 to 222.25.

But you know what REALLY jumped up? 3rd down efficiency and TDs.

On 3rd down, we were at 34% when Moss got here...we were at 44% while he was here.

We scored a TOTAL of 5 TDs prior to Moss arriving (1.67 per game). We scored 11 while he was here (2.75 per game).

We averaged 14.3 points per game before Moss arrived, and averaged 21.5 with him here.

And all that DESPITE being misused by teh brain trust of Chiller and Bevell.

So, who's talking out their ass? I'd say it's STILL you, Mar...and so would almost everyone else.

But keep trying to spin the stats to deny it.

Or...better yet...claim we "misinterpreted" what you said or "just don't comprehend the game on the same level" that you do...whatever load of shit that helps you save face.

Caine
You know I'm not as smart as you. All I did was put up the numbers based on the criteria you used.

Farves were down.
Running game was down.
Recieving was up by a bit over 5 yards.
Percies, as you said, was up but by what, .something.

On a side note, don't forget, when I first posted stats on this, I did the same numbers as I just posted cause its the numbers they used on NFLN, which I referenced.

Now you want to go into points per game ect ect ect. OK, I give, your right. LOL.

No, tater tot, when this first broke, you posted no numbers. You simply said that Moss was a waste, and assumed that we would all bow to your superior insight due to those books you read about football...

We didn't.

My assertion was, and always has been, that our team improved with Moss here. Individuals went up or down, but the TEAM overall went UP. The two GREATEST indicators of that are 3rd down efficiency and Score...both of which jumped up when Moss got here.

Also, I never set limits or conditions on what was a part of the discussion. You said Moss was worthless...that sort of implies a broad generalization.

I have beaten that assertion to death EVERY TIME, under EVERY condition...you just fail to accept it. Just like you failed to accept that Chiller had to go. Just like you failed to accept that Favre was better than Jackson. Just like you failed to accept that Jackson wasn't going top work out here.

See a pattern?

You spend a lot of time being wrong, then arguing your not REALLY wrong because we aren't as educated or capable of seeing the REAL game. What was it you said in another thread? Something like, "I don't even watch the receivers", implying that your insight and wisdom is so great that you watch the super-secret MEANINGFUL part of the game, while the rest of us simply sit in front of the TV, picking our asses and flinging poo at each other in our collective ignorance.

But for a guy who's so insightful and wise, you sure do find yourself in the "WRONG" column a lot.

Fact is, despite your route numbers and "insights", Moss breathed a spark of life into our offense. He was misused by Chiller and Bevell, and ultimately cut (because Chiller was an idiot), but WHILE HE WAS HERE, we were BETTER.

But again, let your player hate find yet another bullshit reason to hate someone. You spent almost 3 years of blind hate on Favre...why stop now?

Caine
Tater Tot. Your funny.

Nope, I distinctly remember referencing what Baldy said on NFLN. He showed tape (that I talked about) that showed he wasn't getting doubled and he talked about our averages (the stats I just pulled) and he was correct.

Now if you want to do abunch of other "Fuzzy Math" and talk points, then yes, you are right I am wrong (atleast I am trusting you cause I ain't gonna check).

You're basing your ENTIRE campaign on what Brian Baldinger said?!?!?!? Are you KIDDING me?!?!?!?

And I'm sorry if statistics and averages pulled from game logs on NFL.com is now considered "fuzzy math"...

..but then, from a guy who considers BleacherReport to be "thought provoking", I should probably expect that.

Maybe if I blog that Moss is awesome on BR, you'll jump on the bandwagon...

...Brian Baldinger...what a moron...

Caine[/quote]
Nope, I'm basing it on what he said and the stats that back it up.

By the way, I don't find BR thought proviking. Its just as credible as posts on a site like this by a guy by the name of Caine. :whistle:

Again, one more time for possible penetration....

Noodles passing numbers down. Yup, loving it.
AD's rushing totals down. Yup, loving it.
Teams passing yards up by 5 yards.
PH numbers up by a decimel point. Yup loving it.

Bring him in. Yutz fans who only know players that are big names will rejoice. :whistle:

Marrdro
07-29-2011, 08:04 PM
I was watching the NFLN, and they were talkinga bout how Marion Barber the third is more exciting to watch than Adrian Peterson.

True story.
So now you don't like NFLN? I bet you like the Mouse better. ....snicker...

i_bleed_purple
07-29-2011, 08:06 PM
I was watching the NFLN, and they were talkinga bout how Marion Barber the third is more exciting to watch than Adrian Peterson.

True story.
So now you don't like NFLN? I bet you like the Mouse better. ....snicker...

Never said that, but just because these guys are paid by a network with NFL in it, does not mean everything they say is accurate, true or NOT incredibly biased.

Marrdro
07-29-2011, 08:09 PM
I was watching the NFLN, and they were talkinga bout how Marion Barber the third is more exciting to watch than Adrian Peterson.

True story.
So now you don't like NFLN? I bet you like the Mouse better. ....snicker...

Never said that, but just because these guys are paid by a network with NFL in it, does not mean everything they say is accurate, true or NOT incredibly biased.
Never said it was true. I only mentioned it in a thread right after Moss was shitcanned.

Today is the first time I looked at the stats for myself.

Guess what, you and Caine can spin it all you want and then start throwing crap out like you just did, but in the end, Ole Baldy was right.

Nuff said.:whistle:

LOL, you know whats even funnier,....the whole "Owned" stuff. Can't wait for that cat to come back around......crickets......:woohoo:

i_bleed_purple
07-29-2011, 08:16 PM
Today is the first time I looked at the stats for myself.

Guess what, you and Caine can spin it all you want and then start throwing crap out like you just did,

Nuff said.:whistle:

Ah, so you admit to blindly making comments without ANY knowledge of the subject at hand.

You then claim me and Cain "spin it all [we] want and then start throwing crap out like [I] just did", and by spinning and throwing crap, you mean posting accurate statistics which disprove your claim which had absolutely no merit to begin with.


but in the end, Ole Baldy was right.
Ah, because you said so right?

Thanks, glad we got that out of the way.

Caine
07-30-2011, 12:57 PM
[quote="Caine"
You know, you're quickly approaching that point where you're not very much fun to talk to anymore. Not because you're right about things (you aren't), but because you're so unreasonable about....EVERYTHING.

When Moss arrived last season, our passing game improved, our running game fell off a touch (despite actually increasing in attempts - unlike your previous assertion in another thread that Moss took carries away from Peterson), and we scored more points...all against top rated teams.

This is compared to a dismal 3 week stretch against 1 previous Superbowl winner and 2 bad teams.

Of course, instead of accepting statistical proof, you have to twist it and turn it in order to PROVE that Moss is worthless.

But lets cut back to the HEART of your assertion - you said Moss didn't add anything to our team. I said he did. The PROOF lies in comparing weeks 1-3 with weeks 5-8. Pre-Moss, and with MOss.

Yes, our total net yards per game didn't increase dramatically, but they DID increase.

Our average gain per play also increased.

As did the average number of rushing plays...by just a smidgen.

Our average yards passing per game jumped up from 199 to 222.25.

But you know what REALLY jumped up? 3rd down efficiency and TDs.

On 3rd down, we were at 34% when Moss got here...we were at 44% while he was here.

We scored a TOTAL of 5 TDs prior to Moss arriving (1.67 per game). We scored 11 while he was here (2.75 per game).

We averaged 14.3 points per game before Moss arrived, and averaged 21.5 with him here.

And all that DESPITE being misused by teh brain trust of Chiller and Bevell.

So, who's talking out their ass? I'd say it's STILL you, Mar...and so would almost everyone else.

But keep trying to spin the stats to deny it.

Or...better yet...claim we "misinterpreted" what you said or "just don't comprehend the game on the same level" that you do...whatever load of shit that helps you save face.

Caine
You know I'm not as smart as you. All I did was put up the numbers based on the criteria you used.

Farves were down.
Running game was down.
Recieving was up by a bit over 5 yards.
Percies, as you said, was up but by what, .something.

On a side note, don't forget, when I first posted stats on this, I did the same numbers as I just posted cause its the numbers they used on NFLN, which I referenced.

Now you want to go into points per game ect ect ect. OK, I give, your right. LOL.

No, tater tot, when this first broke, you posted no numbers. You simply said that Moss was a waste, and assumed that we would all bow to your superior insight due to those books you read about football...

We didn't.

My assertion was, and always has been, that our team improved with Moss here. Individuals went up or down, but the TEAM overall went UP. The two GREATEST indicators of that are 3rd down efficiency and Score...both of which jumped up when Moss got here.

Also, I never set limits or conditions on what was a part of the discussion. You said Moss was worthless...that sort of implies a broad generalization.

I have beaten that assertion to death EVERY TIME, under EVERY condition...you just fail to accept it. Just like you failed to accept that Chiller had to go. Just like you failed to accept that Favre was better than Jackson. Just like you failed to accept that Jackson wasn't going top work out here.

See a pattern?

You spend a lot of time being wrong, then arguing your not REALLY wrong because we aren't as educated or capable of seeing the REAL game. What was it you said in another thread? Something like, "I don't even watch the receivers", implying that your insight and wisdom is so great that you watch the super-secret MEANINGFUL part of the game, while the rest of us simply sit in front of the TV, picking our asses and flinging poo at each other in our collective ignorance.

But for a guy who's so insightful and wise, you sure do find yourself in the "WRONG" column a lot.

Fact is, despite your route numbers and "insights", Moss breathed a spark of life into our offense. He was misused by Chiller and Bevell, and ultimately cut (because Chiller was an idiot), but WHILE HE WAS HERE, we were BETTER.

But again, let your player hate find yet another bullshit reason to hate someone. You spent almost 3 years of blind hate on Favre...why stop now?

Caine
Tater Tot. Your funny.

Nope, I distinctly remember referencing what Baldy said on NFLN. He showed tape (that I talked about) that showed he wasn't getting doubled and he talked about our averages (the stats I just pulled) and he was correct.

Now if you want to do abunch of other "Fuzzy Math" and talk points, then yes, you are right I am wrong (atleast I am trusting you cause I ain't gonna check).

You're basing your ENTIRE campaign on what Brian Baldinger said?!?!?!? Are you KIDDING me?!?!?!?

And I'm sorry if statistics and averages pulled from game logs on NFL.com is now considered "fuzzy math"...

..but then, from a guy who considers BleacherReport to be "thought provoking", I should probably expect that.

Maybe if I blog that Moss is awesome on BR, you'll jump on the bandwagon...

...Brian Baldinger...what a moron...

Caine
Nope, I'm basing it on what he said and the stats that back it up.

By the way, I don't find BR thought proviking. Its just as credible as posts on a site like this by a guy by the name of Caine. :whistle:

Again, one more time for possible penetration....

Noodles passing numbers down. Yup, loving it.
AD's rushing totals down. Yup, loving it.
Teams passing yards up by 5 yards.
PH numbers up by a decimel point. Yup loving it.

Bring him in. Yutz fans who only know players that are big names will rejoice. :whistle:[/quote]

Again, I never said he improved Favre, Harvin, or Peterson....I said he made our TEAM better.

3rd down conversions? Up by 10%...yup, lovin' it.
Scoring? Up by 7.2 points per game....yup, lovin' it.

Showing that Marrdro can only save face by using selective stat pulls and redefining the conversation in mid-thread...yup...Lovin' it.

:ohmy:

Caine

singersp
07-30-2011, 01:19 PM
[quote="Caine"
You know, you're quickly approaching that point where you're not very much fun to talk to anymore. Not because you're right about things (you aren't), but because you're so unreasonable about....EVERYTHING.

When Moss arrived last season, our passing game improved, our running game fell off a touch (despite actually increasing in attempts - unlike your previous assertion in another thread that Moss took carries away from Peterson), and we scored more points...all against top rated teams.

This is compared to a dismal 3 week stretch against 1 previous Superbowl winner and 2 bad teams.

Of course, instead of accepting statistical proof, you have to twist it and turn it in order to PROVE that Moss is worthless.

But lets cut back to the HEART of your assertion - you said Moss didn't add anything to our team. I said he did. The PROOF lies in comparing weeks 1-3 with weeks 5-8. Pre-Moss, and with MOss.

Yes, our total net yards per game didn't increase dramatically, but they DID increase.

Our average gain per play also increased.

As did the average number of rushing plays...by just a smidgen.

Our average yards passing per game jumped up from 199 to 222.25.

But you know what REALLY jumped up? 3rd down efficiency and TDs.

On 3rd down, we were at 34% when Moss got here...we were at 44% while he was here.

We scored a TOTAL of 5 TDs prior to Moss arriving (1.67 per game). We scored 11 while he was here (2.75 per game).

We averaged 14.3 points per game before Moss arrived, and averaged 21.5 with him here.

And all that DESPITE being misused by teh brain trust of Chiller and Bevell.

So, who's talking out their ass? I'd say it's STILL you, Mar...and so would almost everyone else.

But keep trying to spin the stats to deny it.

Or...better yet...claim we "misinterpreted" what you said or "just don't comprehend the game on the same level" that you do...whatever load of shit that helps you save face.

Caine
You know I'm not as smart as you. All I did was put up the numbers based on the criteria you used.

Farves were down.
Running game was down.
Recieving was up by a bit over 5 yards.
Percies, as you said, was up but by what, .something.

On a side note, don't forget, when I first posted stats on this, I did the same numbers as I just posted cause its the numbers they used on NFLN, which I referenced.

Now you want to go into points per game ect ect ect. OK, I give, your right. LOL.

No, tater tot, when this first broke, you posted no numbers. You simply said that Moss was a waste, and assumed that we would all bow to your superior insight due to those books you read about football...

We didn't.

My assertion was, and always has been, that our team improved with Moss here. Individuals went up or down, but the TEAM overall went UP. The two GREATEST indicators of that are 3rd down efficiency and Score...both of which jumped up when Moss got here.

Also, I never set limits or conditions on what was a part of the discussion. You said Moss was worthless...that sort of implies a broad generalization.

I have beaten that assertion to death EVERY TIME, under EVERY condition...you just fail to accept it. Just like you failed to accept that Chiller had to go. Just like you failed to accept that Favre was better than Jackson. Just like you failed to accept that Jackson wasn't going top work out here.

See a pattern?

You spend a lot of time being wrong, then arguing your not REALLY wrong because we aren't as educated or capable of seeing the REAL game. What was it you said in another thread? Something like, "I don't even watch the receivers", implying that your insight and wisdom is so great that you watch the super-secret MEANINGFUL part of the game, while the rest of us simply sit in front of the TV, picking our asses and flinging poo at each other in our collective ignorance.

But for a guy who's so insightful and wise, you sure do find yourself in the "WRONG" column a lot.

Fact is, despite your route numbers and "insights", Moss breathed a spark of life into our offense. He was misused by Chiller and Bevell, and ultimately cut (because Chiller was an idiot), but WHILE HE WAS HERE, we were BETTER.

But again, let your player hate find yet another bullshit reason to hate someone. You spent almost 3 years of blind hate on Favre...why stop now?

Caine
Tater Tot. Your funny.

Nope, I distinctly remember referencing what Baldy said on NFLN. He showed tape (that I talked about) that showed he wasn't getting doubled and he talked about our averages (the stats I just pulled) and he was correct.

Now if you want to do abunch of other "Fuzzy Math" and talk points, then yes, you are right I am wrong (atleast I am trusting you cause I ain't gonna check).

You're basing your ENTIRE campaign on what Brian Baldinger said?!?!?!? Are you KIDDING me?!?!?!?

And I'm sorry if statistics and averages pulled from game logs on NFL.com is now considered "fuzzy math"...

..but then, from a guy who considers BleacherReport to be "thought provoking", I should probably expect that.

Maybe if I blog that Moss is awesome on BR, you'll jump on the bandwagon...

...Brian Baldinger...what a moron...

Caine
Nope, I'm basing it on what he said and the stats that back it up.

By the way, I don't find BR thought proviking. Its just as credible as posts on a site like this by a guy by the name of Caine. :whistle:

Again, one more time for possible penetration....

Noodles passing numbers down. Yup, loving it.
AD's rushing totals down. Yup, loving it.
Teams passing yards up by 5 yards.
PH numbers up by a decimel point. Yup loving it.

Bring him in. Yutz fans who only know players that are big names will rejoice. :whistle:

Again, I never said he improved Favre, Harvin, or Peterson....I said he made our TEAM better.

3rd down conversions? Up by 10%...yup, lovin' it.
Scoring? Up by 7.2 points per game....yup, lovin' it.

Showing that Marrdro can only save face by using selective stat pulls and redefining the conversation in mid-thread...yup...Lovin' it Priceless!.

:ohmy:

Caine[/quote]

Fixed it for you.

Marrdro
07-30-2011, 01:54 PM
Today is the first time I looked at the stats for myself.

Guess what, you and Caine can spin it all you want and then start throwing crap out like you just did,

Nuff said.:whistle:

Ah, so you admit to blindly making comments without ANY knowledge of the subject at hand.

You then claim me and Cain "spin it all [we] want and then start throwing crap out like [I] just did", and by spinning and throwing crap, you mean posting accurate statistics which disprove your claim which had absolutely no merit to begin with.


but in the end, Ole Baldy was right.
Ah, because you said so right?

Thanks, glad we got that out of the way.
Nope, amazingly enough, I can have a conversation with someone without having to have a bunch of stats and facts to back it up.

And the stats said I was right, not me. :P

Marrdro
07-30-2011, 01:57 PM
[quote="Caine"
You know, you're quickly approaching that point where you're not very much fun to talk to anymore. Not because you're right about things (you aren't), but because you're so unreasonable about....EVERYTHING.

When Moss arrived last season, our passing game improved, our running game fell off a touch (despite actually increasing in attempts - unlike your previous assertion in another thread that Moss took carries away from Peterson), and we scored more points...all against top rated teams.

This is compared to a dismal 3 week stretch against 1 previous Superbowl winner and 2 bad teams.

Of course, instead of accepting statistical proof, you have to twist it and turn it in order to PROVE that Moss is worthless.

But lets cut back to the HEART of your assertion - you said Moss didn't add anything to our team. I said he did. The PROOF lies in comparing weeks 1-3 with weeks 5-8. Pre-Moss, and with MOss.

Yes, our total net yards per game didn't increase dramatically, but they DID increase.

Our average gain per play also increased.

As did the average number of rushing plays...by just a smidgen.

Our average yards passing per game jumped up from 199 to 222.25.

But you know what REALLY jumped up? 3rd down efficiency and TDs.

On 3rd down, we were at 34% when Moss got here...we were at 44% while he was here.

We scored a TOTAL of 5 TDs prior to Moss arriving (1.67 per game). We scored 11 while he was here (2.75 per game).

We averaged 14.3 points per game before Moss arrived, and averaged 21.5 with him here.

And all that DESPITE being misused by teh brain trust of Chiller and Bevell.

So, who's talking out their ass? I'd say it's STILL you, Mar...and so would almost everyone else.

But keep trying to spin the stats to deny it.

Or...better yet...claim we "misinterpreted" what you said or "just don't comprehend the game on the same level" that you do...whatever load of shit that helps you save face.

Caine
You know I'm not as smart as you. All I did was put up the numbers based on the criteria you used.

Farves were down.
Running game was down.
Recieving was up by a bit over 5 yards.
Percies, as you said, was up but by what, .something.

On a side note, don't forget, when I first posted stats on this, I did the same numbers as I just posted cause its the numbers they used on NFLN, which I referenced.

Now you want to go into points per game ect ect ect. OK, I give, your right. LOL.

No, tater tot, when this first broke, you posted no numbers. You simply said that Moss was a waste, and assumed that we would all bow to your superior insight due to those books you read about football...

We didn't.

My assertion was, and always has been, that our team improved with Moss here. Individuals went up or down, but the TEAM overall went UP. The two GREATEST indicators of that are 3rd down efficiency and Score...both of which jumped up when Moss got here.

Also, I never set limits or conditions on what was a part of the discussion. You said Moss was worthless...that sort of implies a broad generalization.

I have beaten that assertion to death EVERY TIME, under EVERY condition...you just fail to accept it. Just like you failed to accept that Chiller had to go. Just like you failed to accept that Favre was better than Jackson. Just like you failed to accept that Jackson wasn't going top work out here.

See a pattern?

You spend a lot of time being wrong, then arguing your not REALLY wrong because we aren't as educated or capable of seeing the REAL game. What was it you said in another thread? Something like, "I don't even watch the receivers", implying that your insight and wisdom is so great that you watch the super-secret MEANINGFUL part of the game, while the rest of us simply sit in front of the TV, picking our asses and flinging poo at each other in our collective ignorance.

But for a guy who's so insightful and wise, you sure do find yourself in the "WRONG" column a lot.

Fact is, despite your route numbers and "insights", Moss breathed a spark of life into our offense. He was misused by Chiller and Bevell, and ultimately cut (because Chiller was an idiot), but WHILE HE WAS HERE, we were BETTER.

But again, let your player hate find yet another bullshit reason to hate someone. You spent almost 3 years of blind hate on Favre...why stop now?

Caine
Tater Tot. Your funny.

Nope, I distinctly remember referencing what Baldy said on NFLN. He showed tape (that I talked about) that showed he wasn't getting doubled and he talked about our averages (the stats I just pulled) and he was correct.

Now if you want to do abunch of other "Fuzzy Math" and talk points, then yes, you are right I am wrong (atleast I am trusting you cause I ain't gonna check).

You're basing your ENTIRE campaign on what Brian Baldinger said?!?!?!? Are you KIDDING me?!?!?!?

And I'm sorry if statistics and averages pulled from game logs on NFL.com is now considered "fuzzy math"...

..but then, from a guy who considers BleacherReport to be "thought provoking", I should probably expect that.

Maybe if I blog that Moss is awesome on BR, you'll jump on the bandwagon...

...Brian Baldinger...what a moron...

Caine
Nope, I'm basing it on what he said and the stats that back it up.

By the way, I don't find BR thought proviking. Its just as credible as posts on a site like this by a guy by the name of Caine. :whistle:

Again, one more time for possible penetration....

Noodles passing numbers down. Yup, loving it.
AD's rushing totals down. Yup, loving it.
Teams passing yards up by 5 yards.
PH numbers up by a decimel point. Yup loving it.

Bring him in. Yutz fans who only know players that are big names will rejoice. :whistle:

Again, I never said he improved Favre, Harvin, or Peterson....I said he made our TEAM better.

3rd down conversions? Up by 10%...yup, lovin' it.
Scoring? Up by 7.2 points per game....yup, lovin' it.

Showing that Marrdro can only save face by using selective stat pulls and redefining the conversation in mid-thread...yup...Lovin' it.

:ohmy:

Caine[/quote]
Your missing the point my friend.

The original comment by me was based on the numbers/stats I mention above. You are the one who didn't like it and took it into the other areas.

Again, your right (without me checking). He helped in a couple of areas, but he didn't help in others.

Long story short, you didn't like it, tried to change the game and now don't like it and start playing it off that I'm trying to save face in some way on a internet site.

Typical Caine.

Marrdro
07-30-2011, 02:00 PM
[quote="Caine"
You know, you're quickly approaching that point where you're not very much fun to talk to anymore. Not because you're right about things (you aren't), but because you're so unreasonable about....EVERYTHING.

When Moss arrived last season, our passing game improved, our running game fell off a touch (despite actually increasing in attempts - unlike your previous assertion in another thread that Moss took carries away from Peterson), and we scored more points...all against top rated teams.

This is compared to a dismal 3 week stretch against 1 previous Superbowl winner and 2 bad teams.

Of course, instead of accepting statistical proof, you have to twist it and turn it in order to PROVE that Moss is worthless.

But lets cut back to the HEART of your assertion - you said Moss didn't add anything to our team. I said he did. The PROOF lies in comparing weeks 1-3 with weeks 5-8. Pre-Moss, and with MOss.

Yes, our total net yards per game didn't increase dramatically, but they DID increase.

Our average gain per play also increased.

As did the average number of rushing plays...by just a smidgen.

Our average yards passing per game jumped up from 199 to 222.25.

But you know what REALLY jumped up? 3rd down efficiency and TDs.

On 3rd down, we were at 34% when Moss got here...we were at 44% while he was here.

We scored a TOTAL of 5 TDs prior to Moss arriving (1.67 per game). We scored 11 while he was here (2.75 per game).

We averaged 14.3 points per game before Moss arrived, and averaged 21.5 with him here.

And all that DESPITE being misused by teh brain trust of Chiller and Bevell.

So, who's talking out their ass? I'd say it's STILL you, Mar...and so would almost everyone else.

But keep trying to spin the stats to deny it.

Or...better yet...claim we "misinterpreted" what you said or "just don't comprehend the game on the same level" that you do...whatever load of shit that helps you save face.

Caine
You know I'm not as smart as you. All I did was put up the numbers based on the criteria you used.

Farves were down.
Running game was down.
Recieving was up by a bit over 5 yards.
Percies, as you said, was up but by what, .something.

On a side note, don't forget, when I first posted stats on this, I did the same numbers as I just posted cause its the numbers they used on NFLN, which I referenced.

Now you want to go into points per game ect ect ect. OK, I give, your right. LOL.

No, tater tot, when this first broke, you posted no numbers. You simply said that Moss was a waste, and assumed that we would all bow to your superior insight due to those books you read about football...

We didn't.

My assertion was, and always has been, that our team improved with Moss here. Individuals went up or down, but the TEAM overall went UP. The two GREATEST indicators of that are 3rd down efficiency and Score...both of which jumped up when Moss got here.

Also, I never set limits or conditions on what was a part of the discussion. You said Moss was worthless...that sort of implies a broad generalization.

I have beaten that assertion to death EVERY TIME, under EVERY condition...you just fail to accept it. Just like you failed to accept that Chiller had to go. Just like you failed to accept that Favre was better than Jackson. Just like you failed to accept that Jackson wasn't going top work out here.

See a pattern?

You spend a lot of time being wrong, then arguing your not REALLY wrong because we aren't as educated or capable of seeing the REAL game. What was it you said in another thread? Something like, "I don't even watch the receivers", implying that your insight and wisdom is so great that you watch the super-secret MEANINGFUL part of the game, while the rest of us simply sit in front of the TV, picking our asses and flinging poo at each other in our collective ignorance.

But for a guy who's so insightful and wise, you sure do find yourself in the "WRONG" column a lot.

Fact is, despite your route numbers and "insights", Moss breathed a spark of life into our offense. He was misused by Chiller and Bevell, and ultimately cut (because Chiller was an idiot), but WHILE HE WAS HERE, we were BETTER.

But again, let your player hate find yet another bullshit reason to hate someone. You spent almost 3 years of blind hate on Favre...why stop now?

Caine
Tater Tot. Your funny.

Nope, I distinctly remember referencing what Baldy said on NFLN. He showed tape (that I talked about) that showed he wasn't getting doubled and he talked about our averages (the stats I just pulled) and he was correct.

Now if you want to do abunch of other "Fuzzy Math" and talk points, then yes, you are right I am wrong (atleast I am trusting you cause I ain't gonna check).

You're basing your ENTIRE campaign on what Brian Baldinger said?!?!?!? Are you KIDDING me?!?!?!?

And I'm sorry if statistics and averages pulled from game logs on NFL.com is now considered "fuzzy math"...

..but then, from a guy who considers BleacherReport to be "thought provoking", I should probably expect that.

Maybe if I blog that Moss is awesome on BR, you'll jump on the bandwagon...

...Brian Baldinger...what a moron...

Caine
Nope, I'm basing it on what he said and the stats that back it up.

By the way, I don't find BR thought proviking. Its just as credible as posts on a site like this by a guy by the name of Caine. :whistle:

Again, one more time for possible penetration....

Noodles passing numbers down. Yup, loving it.
AD's rushing totals down. Yup, loving it.
Teams passing yards up by 5 yards.
PH numbers up by a decimel point. Yup loving it.

Bring him in. Yutz fans who only know players that are big names will rejoice. :whistle:

Again, I never said he improved Favre, Harvin, or Peterson....I said he made our TEAM better.

3rd down conversions? Up by 10%...yup, lovin' it.
Scoring? Up by 7.2 points per game....yup, lovin' it.

Showing that Marrdro can only save face by using selective stat pulls and redefining the conversation in mid-thread...yup...Lovin' it Priceless!.

:ohmy:

Caine

Fixed it for you.[/quote]
Whats so funny in all of this is that the original discussion was centered on Noodles passing yards and AD's running production.

Caine actually is the one who changed it to the stats he is now using and is occusing me of changing in mid stream.

Talk about priceless.:laugh:

Overlord
07-30-2011, 02:45 PM
This is one of those things where I'd be happy either way. Most of my concerns would be his personality. If the team brought him back and he came back after what happened last year, I would assume that most everyone was comfortable with it now that Childress is gone. If not, then I would be more inclined to believe the opposite.

I'm not sure there is much to be made statistically of his four games here, despite the intense efforts here. I think there's just too much variability week-to-week in the NFL to put a ton of credibility in such a small sample size, though the numbers will be what they are. From my memory, I thought the team looked better offensively against some pretty good teams in that four game stretch.

I don't think he's washed up. Only a couple years ago he had 1200+ yards and 13 TDs. Other receivers of his caliber have been effective at his age (Rice, Owens, Carter, Harrison, Brown, etc.). I think he would make the team better.

Still, I think it's incredibly unlikely that he comes back to Minnesota.

Caine
07-30-2011, 02:53 PM
[quote="Caine"
You know, you're quickly approaching that point where you're not very much fun to talk to anymore. Not because you're right about things (you aren't), but because you're so unreasonable about....EVERYTHING.

When Moss arrived last season, our passing game improved, our running game fell off a touch (despite actually increasing in attempts - unlike your previous assertion in another thread that Moss took carries away from Peterson), and we scored more points...all against top rated teams.

This is compared to a dismal 3 week stretch against 1 previous Superbowl winner and 2 bad teams.

Of course, instead of accepting statistical proof, you have to twist it and turn it in order to PROVE that Moss is worthless.

But lets cut back to the HEART of your assertion - you said Moss didn't add anything to our team. I said he did. The PROOF lies in comparing weeks 1-3 with weeks 5-8. Pre-Moss, and with MOss.

Yes, our total net yards per game didn't increase dramatically, but they DID increase.

Our average gain per play also increased.

As did the average number of rushing plays...by just a smidgen.

Our average yards passing per game jumped up from 199 to 222.25.

But you know what REALLY jumped up? 3rd down efficiency and TDs.

On 3rd down, we were at 34% when Moss got here...we were at 44% while he was here.

We scored a TOTAL of 5 TDs prior to Moss arriving (1.67 per game). We scored 11 while he was here (2.75 per game).

We averaged 14.3 points per game before Moss arrived, and averaged 21.5 with him here.

And all that DESPITE being misused by teh brain trust of Chiller and Bevell.

So, who's talking out their ass? I'd say it's STILL you, Mar...and so would almost everyone else.

But keep trying to spin the stats to deny it.

Or...better yet...claim we "misinterpreted" what you said or "just don't comprehend the game on the same level" that you do...whatever load of shit that helps you save face.

Caine
You know I'm not as smart as you. All I did was put up the numbers based on the criteria you used.

Farves were down.
Running game was down.
Recieving was up by a bit over 5 yards.
Percies, as you said, was up but by what, .something.

On a side note, don't forget, when I first posted stats on this, I did the same numbers as I just posted cause its the numbers they used on NFLN, which I referenced.

Now you want to go into points per game ect ect ect. OK, I give, your right. LOL.

No, tater tot, when this first broke, you posted no numbers. You simply said that Moss was a waste, and assumed that we would all bow to your superior insight due to those books you read about football...

We didn't.

My assertion was, and always has been, that our team improved with Moss here. Individuals went up or down, but the TEAM overall went UP. The two GREATEST indicators of that are 3rd down efficiency and Score...both of which jumped up when Moss got here.

Also, I never set limits or conditions on what was a part of the discussion. You said Moss was worthless...that sort of implies a broad generalization.

I have beaten that assertion to death EVERY TIME, under EVERY condition...you just fail to accept it. Just like you failed to accept that Chiller had to go. Just like you failed to accept that Favre was better than Jackson. Just like you failed to accept that Jackson wasn't going top work out here.

See a pattern?

You spend a lot of time being wrong, then arguing your not REALLY wrong because we aren't as educated or capable of seeing the REAL game. What was it you said in another thread? Something like, "I don't even watch the receivers", implying that your insight and wisdom is so great that you watch the super-secret MEANINGFUL part of the game, while the rest of us simply sit in front of the TV, picking our asses and flinging poo at each other in our collective ignorance.

But for a guy who's so insightful and wise, you sure do find yourself in the "WRONG" column a lot.

Fact is, despite your route numbers and "insights", Moss breathed a spark of life into our offense. He was misused by Chiller and Bevell, and ultimately cut (because Chiller was an idiot), but WHILE HE WAS HERE, we were BETTER.

But again, let your player hate find yet another bullshit reason to hate someone. You spent almost 3 years of blind hate on Favre...why stop now?

Caine
Tater Tot. Your funny.

Nope, I distinctly remember referencing what Baldy said on NFLN. He showed tape (that I talked about) that showed he wasn't getting doubled and he talked about our averages (the stats I just pulled) and he was correct.

Now if you want to do abunch of other "Fuzzy Math" and talk points, then yes, you are right I am wrong (atleast I am trusting you cause I ain't gonna check).

You're basing your ENTIRE campaign on what Brian Baldinger said?!?!?!? Are you KIDDING me?!?!?!?

And I'm sorry if statistics and averages pulled from game logs on NFL.com is now considered "fuzzy math"...

..but then, from a guy who considers BleacherReport to be "thought provoking", I should probably expect that.

Maybe if I blog that Moss is awesome on BR, you'll jump on the bandwagon...

...Brian Baldinger...what a moron...

Caine
Nope, I'm basing it on what he said and the stats that back it up.

By the way, I don't find BR thought proviking. Its just as credible as posts on a site like this by a guy by the name of Caine. :whistle:

Again, one more time for possible penetration....

Noodles passing numbers down. Yup, loving it.
AD's rushing totals down. Yup, loving it.
Teams passing yards up by 5 yards.
PH numbers up by a decimel point. Yup loving it.

Bring him in. Yutz fans who only know players that are big names will rejoice. :whistle:

Again, I never said he improved Favre, Harvin, or Peterson....I said he made our TEAM better.

3rd down conversions? Up by 10%...yup, lovin' it.
Scoring? Up by 7.2 points per game....yup, lovin' it.

Showing that Marrdro can only save face by using selective stat pulls and redefining the conversation in mid-thread...yup...Lovin' it.

:ohmy:

Caine
Your missing the point my friend.

The original comment by me was based on the numbers/stats I mention above. You are the one who didn't like it and took it into the other areas.

Again, your right (without me checking). He helped in a couple of areas, but he didn't help in others.

Long story short, you didn't like it, tried to change the game and now don't like it and start playing it off that I'm trying to save face in some way on a internet site.

Typical Caine.[/quote]

Are you KIDDING ME?!?!?!?!?

Your original comment was made WITHOUT the benefit of any statistical proofs or validations. In fact, you stated YOURSELF that you didn't bother to check them.

Your ORIGNAL comment was that Moss didn't improve the Offense. My original response was that he DID.

I love how you're now trying to paint this as ME altering the conversation when all along it has been you redefining the criteria.

FACT: Moss made the Offense BETTER.

FACT: Despite fluctuations in INDIVIDUAL statistics, the OVERALL picture IMPROVED while Moss was here.

THEREFORE: MOSS IMPROVED THE OFFENSE.

No matter how you try and deny or spin this - using whatever selective criteria you choose - the BOTTOM LINE is that we were a better Offense with Moss on the field.

i.e. You were (and are still) WRONG.

Typical Marrdro.

Caine

Purple Floyd
07-30-2011, 03:14 PM
Just sign him

Marrdro
07-30-2011, 05:24 PM
[quote="Caine"
You know, you're quickly approaching that point where you're not very much fun to talk to anymore. Not because you're right about things (you aren't), but because you're so unreasonable about....EVERYTHING.

When Moss arrived last season, our passing game improved, our running game fell off a touch (despite actually increasing in attempts - unlike your previous assertion in another thread that Moss took carries away from Peterson), and we scored more points...all against top rated teams.

This is compared to a dismal 3 week stretch against 1 previous Superbowl winner and 2 bad teams.

Of course, instead of accepting statistical proof, you have to twist it and turn it in order to PROVE that Moss is worthless.

But lets cut back to the HEART of your assertion - you said Moss didn't add anything to our team. I said he did. The PROOF lies in comparing weeks 1-3 with weeks 5-8. Pre-Moss, and with MOss.

Yes, our total net yards per game didn't increase dramatically, but they DID increase.

Our average gain per play also increased.

As did the average number of rushing plays...by just a smidgen.

Our average yards passing per game jumped up from 199 to 222.25.

But you know what REALLY jumped up? 3rd down efficiency and TDs.

On 3rd down, we were at 34% when Moss got here...we were at 44% while he was here.

We scored a TOTAL of 5 TDs prior to Moss arriving (1.67 per game). We scored 11 while he was here (2.75 per game).

We averaged 14.3 points per game before Moss arrived, and averaged 21.5 with him here.

And all that DESPITE being misused by teh brain trust of Chiller and Bevell.

So, who's talking out their ass? I'd say it's STILL you, Mar...and so would almost everyone else.

But keep trying to spin the stats to deny it.

Or...better yet...claim we "misinterpreted" what you said or "just don't comprehend the game on the same level" that you do...whatever load of shit that helps you save face.

Caine
You know I'm not as smart as you. All I did was put up the numbers based on the criteria you used.

Farves were down.
Running game was down.
Recieving was up by a bit over 5 yards.
Percies, as you said, was up but by what, .something.

On a side note, don't forget, when I first posted stats on this, I did the same numbers as I just posted cause its the numbers they used on NFLN, which I referenced.

Now you want to go into points per game ect ect ect. OK, I give, your right. LOL.

No, tater tot, when this first broke, you posted no numbers. You simply said that Moss was a waste, and assumed that we would all bow to your superior insight due to those books you read about football...

We didn't.

My assertion was, and always has been, that our team improved with Moss here. Individuals went up or down, but the TEAM overall went UP. The two GREATEST indicators of that are 3rd down efficiency and Score...both of which jumped up when Moss got here.

Also, I never set limits or conditions on what was a part of the discussion. You said Moss was worthless...that sort of implies a broad generalization.

I have beaten that assertion to death EVERY TIME, under EVERY condition...you just fail to accept it. Just like you failed to accept that Chiller had to go. Just like you failed to accept that Favre was better than Jackson. Just like you failed to accept that Jackson wasn't going top work out here.

See a pattern?

You spend a lot of time being wrong, then arguing your not REALLY wrong because we aren't as educated or capable of seeing the REAL game. What was it you said in another thread? Something like, "I don't even watch the receivers", implying that your insight and wisdom is so great that you watch the super-secret MEANINGFUL part of the game, while the rest of us simply sit in front of the TV, picking our asses and flinging poo at each other in our collective ignorance.

But for a guy who's so insightful and wise, you sure do find yourself in the "WRONG" column a lot.

Fact is, despite your route numbers and "insights", Moss breathed a spark of life into our offense. He was misused by Chiller and Bevell, and ultimately cut (because Chiller was an idiot), but WHILE HE WAS HERE, we were BETTER.

But again, let your player hate find yet another bullshit reason to hate someone. You spent almost 3 years of blind hate on Favre...why stop now?

Caine
Tater Tot. Your funny.

Nope, I distinctly remember referencing what Baldy said on NFLN. He showed tape (that I talked about) that showed he wasn't getting doubled and he talked about our averages (the stats I just pulled) and he was correct.

Now if you want to do abunch of other "Fuzzy Math" and talk points, then yes, you are right I am wrong (atleast I am trusting you cause I ain't gonna check).

You're basing your ENTIRE campaign on what Brian Baldinger said?!?!?!? Are you KIDDING me?!?!?!?

And I'm sorry if statistics and averages pulled from game logs on NFL.com is now considered "fuzzy math"...

..but then, from a guy who considers BleacherReport to be "thought provoking", I should probably expect that.

Maybe if I blog that Moss is awesome on BR, you'll jump on the bandwagon...

...Brian Baldinger...what a moron...

Caine
Nope, I'm basing it on what he said and the stats that back it up.

By the way, I don't find BR thought proviking. Its just as credible as posts on a site like this by a guy by the name of Caine. :whistle:

Again, one more time for possible penetration....

Noodles passing numbers down. Yup, loving it.
AD's rushing totals down. Yup, loving it.
Teams passing yards up by 5 yards.
PH numbers up by a decimel point. Yup loving it.

Bring him in. Yutz fans who only know players that are big names will rejoice. :whistle:

Again, I never said he improved Favre, Harvin, or Peterson....I said he made our TEAM better.

3rd down conversions? Up by 10%...yup, lovin' it.
Scoring? Up by 7.2 points per game....yup, lovin' it.

Showing that Marrdro can only save face by using selective stat pulls and redefining the conversation in mid-thread...yup...Lovin' it.

:ohmy:

Caine
Your missing the point my friend.

The original comment by me was based on the numbers/stats I mention above. You are the one who didn't like it and took it into the other areas.

Again, your right (without me checking). He helped in a couple of areas, but he didn't help in others.

Long story short, you didn't like it, tried to change the game and now don't like it and start playing it off that I'm trying to save face in some way on a internet site.

Typical Caine.

Are you KIDDING ME?!?!?!?!?

Your original comment was made WITHOUT the benefit of any statistical proofs or validations. In fact, you stated YOURSELF that you didn't bother to check them.

Your ORIGNAL comment was that Moss didn't improve the Offense. My original response was that he DID.

I love how you're now trying to paint this as ME altering the conversation when all along it has been you redefining the criteria.

FACT: Moss made the Offense BETTER.

FACT: Despite fluctuations in INDIVIDUAL statistics, the OVERALL picture IMPROVED while Moss was here.

THEREFORE: MOSS IMPROVED THE OFFENSE.

No matter how you try and deny or spin this - using whatever selective criteria you choose - the BOTTOM LINE is that we were a better Offense with Moss on the field.

i.e. You were (and are still) WRONG.

Typical Marrdro.

Caine[/quote]
LOL, so sad, so very very sad. :whistle:

i_bleed_purple
07-30-2011, 07:03 PM
LOL, so sad, so very very sad. :whistle:

So we've found Marty's new strategy. When he knows he's over his head, and he can't come up with ANY evidence to back up his claims, he just resorts to cheap insults like calling our statistics and EVIDENCE "sad".

Yup, sad indeed.

thorshammer
07-30-2011, 09:33 PM
Would love to see Moss back. If his head's right .... he can still play. My opinion no statistics. LOL

Marrdro
07-30-2011, 10:00 PM
LOL, so sad, so very very sad. :whistle:

So we've found Marty's new strategy. When he knows he's over his head, and he can't come up with ANY evidence to back up his claims, he just resorts to cheap insults like calling our statistics and EVIDENCE "sad".

Yup, sad indeed.
Cheap insults. Strategy.

Comeon, you and Caine started it first. All I did was use the stats and say it was part of the origianl point.

Besides, when I'm in over my head when it comes to you and Caine I'll quit posting on here. To date that hasn't happened even though the both of you really think it has. LOL

Marrdro
07-30-2011, 10:01 PM
Would love to see Moss back. If his head's right .... he can still play. My opinion no statistics. LOL
LOL, well played my friend. Well played indeed.

Quick question, if he comes back do you get rid of Berrian? Both play the same position. Why pay them both the money they are aaking for.

Purple Floyd
07-30-2011, 10:02 PM
What it boils down to is that sadly we sent moss packing about six years ago and we still have not found a consistent quality replacement that can make moss an unnecesary option

Purple Floyd
07-30-2011, 10:06 PM
Would love to see Moss back. If his head's right .... he can still play. My opinion no statistics. LOL
LOL, well played my friend. Well played indeed.

Quick question, if he comes back do you get rid of Berrian? Both play the same position. Why pay them both the money they are aaking for.
depends.

maybe we can tweak the offense to get them both on the field or rotate them to keep them fresh. otherwise yes you cut berrian

Marrdro
07-30-2011, 10:14 PM
Would love to see Moss back. If his head's right .... he can still play. My opinion no statistics. LOL
LOL, well played my friend. Well played indeed.

Quick question, if he comes back do you get rid of Berrian? Both play the same position. Why pay them both the money they are aaking for.
depends.

maybe we can tweak the offense to get them both on the field or rotate them to keep them fresh. otherwise yes you cut berrian
Kindof an interesting idea.

BB.......LT....LG.....C.....RG.....RT......Moss
.......TE.............QB..............TE
......................RB...............

If the focus will be 2 TE sets as Musgrove says, then we take one of our best playmakers off the field in PH.

Not sure two guys running a 8 or a 9 route on each side is a better option.

One would have to go. After watching tape on Moss were he wasn't even being doubled anymore, I would rather go with BB even though he isn't the fasted of outside guys.

FuadFan
07-30-2011, 10:15 PM
I doubt Moss is remotely an option.

Frazier was here for all of Moss including the bad last year.

IMO they probably would rather avoid the older group of Burress, Owens, Mason, and Moss and target the younger guys who the hope will be can work for the long term with Christian Ponder.

Freakout
07-30-2011, 11:04 PM
I doubt Moss is remotely an option.

Frazier was here for all of Moss including the bad last year.

IMO they probably would rather avoid the older group of Burress, Owens, Mason, and Moss and target the younger guys who the hope will be can work for the long term with Christian Ponder.

Yeah while Moss may have been right he still should have kept his mouth shut and played like we were paying him to do. He did himself no favor by trying to overstep the head coach.

Caine
07-30-2011, 11:12 PM
LOL, so sad, so very very sad. :whistle:

So we've found Marty's new strategy. When he knows he's over his head, and he can't come up with ANY evidence to back up his claims, he just resorts to cheap insults like calling our statistics and EVIDENCE "sad".

Yup, sad indeed.
Cheap insults. Strategy.

Comeon, you and Caine started it first. All I did was use the stats and say it was part of the origianl point.

Besides, when I'm in over my head when it comes to you and Caine I'll quit posting on here. To date that hasn't happened even though the both of you really think it has. LOL

See, to me this thread is nothing more than a continuation of a previous Anti-Moss thread you were central in. To you, this is - apparently - and entirely new back-n-forth.

Yes, in my original response HERE I referenced passing and running game improvements (And I misspoke on the running game, because it statistically dropped slightly).

However, that doesn't change the FACT that your original post contained no statistics. It was just another dig on Moss.

So, in a way, we've both been wrong here. The difference is, I was wrong on a detail, you were wrong in totality.

Moss improved our team. Ergo, Moss would be worthwhile to bring back in because we could:

A: Get him relatively cheap.
B: Expect a similar increase in production.

What irks me most is your blind dismissal of Moss. Not for any valid reason, but for reasons that have no real proof. Similar to your dismissal and hate of all things Favre, and your support for all things Jackson. There is no REASON for it...you just do it. And, even when confronted with proof that your position is flawed, you refuse to alter or adjust...you simply claim that the other side misinterprets you, or doesn't "understand the game like I do".

Does it make sense to go get another field stretching WR right now? Yes, it does. Especially when that same WR improved our offense just by taking the field.

And, had our HC and OC not been retards, he might have actually been USED. Instead, they failed to utilize him in any meaningful way, and you blame the WR for that....

Bottom line, the notion of bringing Moss in again has merit. To blindly dismiss it and continue to hate player because he's not the IDEAL candidate doesn't make sense.

Would Moss be my FIRST choice? Nope. But he's on my list.

Caine

Purple Floyd
07-30-2011, 11:18 PM
Would love to see Moss back. If his head's right .... he can still play. My opinion no statistics. LOL
LOL, well played my friend. Well played indeed.

Quick question, if he comes back do you get rid of Berrian? Both play the same position. Why pay them both the money they are aaking for.
depends.

maybe we can tweak the offense to get them both on the field or rotate them to keep them fresh. otherwise yes you cut berrian
Kindof an interesting idea.

BB.......LT....LG.....C.....RG.....RT......Moss
.......TE.............QB..............TE
......................RB...............

If the focus will be 2 TE sets as Musgrove says, then we take one of our best playmakers off the field in PH.

Not sure two guys running a 8 or a 9 route on each side is a better option.

One would have to go. After watching tape on Moss were he wasn't even being doubled anymore, I would rather go with BB even though he isn't the fasted of outside guys.
yeah that is the rub. we would have to pull a te and we are investing heavily there.
alas with jenkins getting inked it is a moot point

singersp
07-31-2011, 01:27 PM
I doubt Moss is remotely an option.

Frazier was here for all of Moss including the bad last year.

IMO they probably would rather avoid the older group of Burress, Owens, Mason, and Moss and target the younger guys who the hope will be can work for the long term with Christian Ponder.

Problem is, looks like they're bringing in some WR's that'll suck/be mediocre long term.

Caine
07-31-2011, 07:00 PM
I doubt Moss is remotely an option.

Frazier was here for all of Moss including the bad last year.

IMO they probably would rather avoid the older group of Burress, Owens, Mason, and Moss and target the younger guys who the hope will be can work for the long term with Christian Ponder.

Problem is, looks like they're bringing in some WR's that'll suck/be mediocre long term.

I agree. I think we need to try and shore up our WR corps before the season starts. There are still a handful of viable prospects out there.

Fact is, I wasn't upset about losing Rice (I think he's over rated), but I AM getting frustrated by our teams lack of initiative to IMPROVE that position.

The QB position was Chiller's kryptonite, I hope that WR isn't Frazier's.

Caine

jargomcfargo
07-31-2011, 09:47 PM
I doubt Moss is remotely an option.

Frazier was here for all of Moss including the bad last year.

IMO they probably would rather avoid the older group of Burress, Owens, Mason, and Moss and target the younger guys who the hope will be can work for the long term with Christian Ponder.

Problem is, looks like they're bringing in some WR's that'll suck/be mediocre long term.

I agree. I think we need to try and shore up our WR corps before the season starts. There are still a handful of viable prospects out there.

Fact is, I wasn't upset about losing Rice (I think he's over rated), but I AM getting frustrated by our teams lack of initiative to IMPROVE that position.

The QB position was Chiller's kryptonite, I hope that WR isn't Frazier's.

Caine

Or perhaps Spielman is every head coaches kryptonite.

Purple Blood
07-31-2011, 10:53 PM
I doubt Moss is remotely an option.

Frazier was here for all of Moss including the bad last year.

IMO they probably would rather avoid the older group of Burress, Owens, Mason, and Moss and target the younger guys who the hope will be can work for the long term with Christian Ponder.

Problem is, looks like they're bringing in some WR's that'll suck/be mediocre long term.

I agree. I think we need to try and shore up our WR corps before the season starts. There are still a handful of viable prospects out there.

Fact is, I wasn't upset about losing Rice (I think he's over rated), but I AM getting frustrated by our teams lack of initiative to IMPROVE that position.

The QB position was Chiller's kryptonite, I hope that WR isn't Frazier's.

Caine


I agree! Hoping Fraizier doesn't have purple colored glasses on. He did come from the other side of the ball.

singersp
08-01-2011, 12:53 PM
I doubt Moss is remotely an option.

Frazier was here for all of Moss including the bad last year.

IMO they probably would rather avoid the older group of Burress, Owens, Mason, and Moss and target the younger guys who the hope will be can work for the long term with Christian Ponder.

Problem is, looks like they're bringing in some WR's that'll suck/be mediocre long term.

I agree. I think we need to try and shore up our WR corps before the season starts. There are still a handful of viable prospects out there.

Fact is, I wasn't upset about losing Rice (I think he's over rated), but I AM getting frustrated by our teams lack of initiative to IMPROVE that position.

The QB position was Chiller's kryptonite, I hope that WR isn't Frazier's.

Caine

Or perhaps Spielman is every head coaches kryptonite.

Plaxico signed a 1 year deal for $3 mil.

That's what Spielman & Co. paid Sage to be our 3rd string QB & hold a clipboard.

He/They just can't seem to get it right very often.

If you lose a talented WR, you replace him with a WR of equal or greater talent, not 2 WR's with half the talent.

Purple Floyd
08-01-2011, 01:22 PM
I doubt Moss is remotely an option.

Frazier was here for all of Moss including the bad last year.

IMO they probably would rather avoid the older group of Burress, Owens, Mason, and Moss and target the younger guys who the hope will be can work for the long term with Christian Ponder.

Problem is, looks like they're bringing in some WR's that'll suck/be mediocre long term.

I agree. I think we need to try and shore up our WR corps before the season starts. There are still a handful of viable prospects out there.

Fact is, I wasn't upset about losing Rice (I think he's over rated), but I AM getting frustrated by our teams lack of initiative to IMPROVE that position.

The QB position was Chiller's kryptonite, I hope that WR isn't Frazier's.

Caine

Or perhaps Spielman is every head coaches kryptonite.

Plaxico signed a 1 year deal for $3 mil.

That's what Spielman & Co. paid Sage to be our 3rd string QB & hold a clipboard.

He/They just can't seem to get it right very often.

If you lose a talented WR, you replace him with a WR of equal or greater talent, not 2 WR's with half the talent. yep. that sux

MulletMullitia
08-01-2011, 02:30 PM
I doubt Moss is remotely an option.

Frazier was here for all of Moss including the bad last year.

IMO they probably would rather avoid the older group of Burress, Owens, Mason, and Moss and target the younger guys who the hope will be can work for the long term with Christian Ponder.

Problem is, looks like they're bringing in some WR's that'll suck/be mediocre long term.

I agree. I think we need to try and shore up our WR corps before the season starts. There are still a handful of viable prospects out there.

Fact is, I wasn't upset about losing Rice (I think he's over rated), but I AM getting frustrated by our teams lack of initiative to IMPROVE that position.

The QB position was Chiller's kryptonite, I hope that WR isn't Frazier's.

Caine

Or perhaps Spielman is every head coaches kryptonite.

Plaxico signed a 1 year deal for $3 mil.

That's what Spielman & Co. paid Sage to be our 3rd string QB & hold a clipboard.

He/They just can't seem to get it right very often.

If you lose a talented WR, you replace him with a WR of equal or greater talent, not 2 WR's with half the talent.

Couldn't agree more Singer. Although I'm starting to get really optimistic about Emmanuel Arceneaux. His film is so impressive. And he comes from the same team that Cameron Wake did.

midgensa
08-01-2011, 03:43 PM
I doubt Moss is remotely an option.

Frazier was here for all of Moss including the bad last year.

IMO they probably would rather avoid the older group of Burress, Owens, Mason, and Moss and target the younger guys who the hope will be can work for the long term with Christian Ponder.

Problem is, looks like they're bringing in some WR's that'll suck/be mediocre long term.

I agree. I think we need to try and shore up our WR corps before the season starts. There are still a handful of viable prospects out there.

Fact is, I wasn't upset about losing Rice (I think he's over rated), but I AM getting frustrated by our teams lack of initiative to IMPROVE that position.

The QB position was Chiller's kryptonite, I hope that WR isn't Frazier's.

Caine

Or perhaps Spielman is every head coaches kryptonite.

Plaxico signed a 1 year deal for $3 mil.

That's what Spielman & Co. paid Sage to be our 3rd string QB & hold a clipboard.

He/They just can't seem to get it right very often.

If you lose a talented WR, you replace him with a WR of equal or greater talent, not 2 WR's with half the talent.

While I agree with the trying to go get a receiver of equal or greater talent, sometimes it is just not possible.

We really could not have gotten equal or greater talent than Rice in this market except for Santonio Holmes and, a stretch, Braylon Edwards.

We should have pursued Floyd more heavily for sure and James Jones, but neither of those guys is equal to Sid who is just 24-years-old.

As for the Sage comment. When he was brought in, he was brought in as the No. 2 to compete for No. 1. That is normal money for a No. 2 and very low money for a No. 1 QB.

i_bleed_purple
08-01-2011, 05:18 PM
Well, Moss has officially retired.

Marrdro
08-01-2011, 05:22 PM
Just like it wasn't the Chillers fault they couldn't fix the QB position, its not Leslies fault about our current state of the WR position.

Again, the FO pukes add players to the roster, not the HC. The HC just tells he were he needs players at.

Atleast for me, the FO pukes heard the request as they tried to keep Rice but didn't have the cash (or weren't willing to pay it). Tried to get a couple of others, again, not enough cash.

In the end the FO pukes got who they could afford and now its Leslies job to make that work. My guess, he would have rather had to make Rice work, but again, it wasn't his call.

Purple Blood
08-01-2011, 06:08 PM
Just like it wasn't the Chillers fault they couldn't fix the QB position, its not Leslies fault about our current state of the WR position.

Again, the FO pukes add players to the roster, not the HC. The HC just tells he were he needs players at.

Atleast for me, the FO pukes heard the request as they tried to keep Rice but didn't have the cash (or weren't willing to pay it). Tried to get a couple of others, again, not enough cash.

In the end the FO pukes got who they could afford and now its Leslies job to make that work. My guess, he would have rather had to make Rice work, but again, it wasn't his call.

In Rice's case I wonder how commited he was to the Vikings? Last Year he waits to have shoulder surgery until Two Weeks before the Season starts. Someone enlighten me as to how he didn't know he needed surgery until then. It's all about the Money Imho. Anyone who thinks they have a better chance Winning with Tjack over McNabb needs more then Shoulder surgery.

ejmat
08-01-2011, 06:10 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/01/randy-moss-decides-to-retire/

mountainviking
08-02-2011, 03:01 PM
TEN CLAPS FOR RANDY MOSS

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/02/10-claps-for-randy-moss/

My personal favorite, I'll never forget! We hadn't beat the Pukers in Lameblow field for around 10 years, and his rookie season with them defending NFC champs and huge favorites, Moss blew them off the field!! :cheer:

October 5, 1998. At Green Bay.

The Packers, two-time defending NFC champions, hosted the upstart Vikings in a Monday night game at Lambeau Field. It was widely expected that Brett Favre and company would put Moss and his cohorts in their place.

What unfolded instead was something former Vikings offensive coordinator Brian Billick would call a “game for the ages,” via the rookie’s official coming-out party on football’s national stage.

Moss racked up 190 yards on only five catches, adding two touchdowns in a 37-24 romp that wasn’t nearly as close as the final score suggested.


And then, another favorite for all time, beating them on their turf in the playoffs after they swept us regular season! And the faux-moon fiasco finish!! Which, we learned later, was a salute to Packers fans as they had a tradition of mooning our bus as it left town.


January 9, 2005. At Green Bay.

Swept by the Packers via identical 34-31 scores during the season but back in the playoffs for the first time since a 41-0 Meltdown in the Meadowlands in January 2001, no one expected the Vikings to go to Lambeau and win.

But win they did, with Moss poofing out his afro and catching two touchdown passes, including the unforgettable faux mooning that left Joe Buck appalled and triggered a $10,000 fine.

And, of course, that fine gave rise to Randy’s “straight cash homey” catch phrase, along with an even more entertaining description of what his next touchdown celebration may entail.


Sure, he was a pain in the A from time to time, a notable quote waiting to happen and in general, had an over-sized ego/attitude, but he never hurt anyone or even got a DUI or did anything really, unlawful. And, with the skillset he possessed and on-field performances he put out, really, he deserved a little more attitude than most. He'll always be a favorite of mine, for being one of the most entertaining, on and off field, players of all time.

I'd have loved to see him retire a Viking, I really wonder, how much of the rumors about him being an arse to the caterer were true...how many of his own teammates from last season did he really, "alienate?" Or was that just the Chiller trying to put a bandaid over his over-reaction to all the true things Randy pointed out about him!?!??? ;)

i_bleed_purple
08-02-2011, 03:06 PM
The haters are always gonna hate.

But teams know, that a healthy Moss who wants to play will cause headaches for DC's.

People claim he can only run "8 or 9 routes" as Marty like sto put it, but that's simply not true. He prefers the deep routes, but he can be effective running the short hitch or out route. He doesnt' have the breakaway speed he used to have, but he's still one of the faster guys out there.

He retired because he wasn't getting the offers he wanted. I don't think he wanted to be a Jet, and obviously did not get a call from the Pats or Vikings (Two teams he said he'd like to return to). In a way, better to go out relatively on top, then pull a Brett Favre or Jerry Rice and play into your 40s.

As Neil Young once said "It's better to burn out, then to fade away".

ejmat
08-02-2011, 03:31 PM
The haters are always gonna hate.

But teams know, that a healthy Moss who wants to play will cause headaches for DC's.

People claim he can only run "8 or 9 routes" as Marty like sto put it, but that's simply not true. He prefers the deep routes, but he can be effective running the short hitch or out route. He doesnt' have the breakaway speed he used to have, but he's still one of the faster guys out there.

He retired because he wasn't getting the offers he wanted. I don't think he wanted to be a Jet, and obviously did not get a call from the Pats or Vikings (Two teams he said he'd like to return to). In a way, better to go out relatively on top, then pull a Brett Favre or Jerry Rice and play into your 40s.

As Neil Young once said "It's better to burn out, then to fade away".
I thought that was Joe Elliot from Def Leppard :laugh:

Purple Floyd
08-02-2011, 03:51 PM
The haters are always gonna hate.

But teams know, that a healthy Moss who wants to play will cause headaches for DC's.

People claim he can only run "8 or 9 routes" as Marty like sto put it, but that's simply not true. He prefers the deep routes, but he can be effective running the short hitch or out route. He doesnt' have the breakaway speed he used to have, but he's still one of the faster guys out there.

He retired because he wasn't getting the offers he wanted. I don't think he wanted to be a Jet, and obviously did not get a call from the Pats or Vikings (Two teams he said he'd like to return to). In a way, better to go out relatively on top, then pull a Brett Favre or Jerry Rice and play into your 40s.

As Neil Young once said "It's better to burn out, then to fade away".
I thought that was Joe Elliot from Def Leppard :laugh:
They both did

i_bleed_purple
08-02-2011, 03:52 PM
The haters are always gonna hate.

But teams know, that a healthy Moss who wants to play will cause headaches for DC's.

People claim he can only run "8 or 9 routes" as Marty like sto put it, but that's simply not true. He prefers the deep routes, but he can be effective running the short hitch or out route. He doesnt' have the breakaway speed he used to have, but he's still one of the faster guys out there.

He retired because he wasn't getting the offers he wanted. I don't think he wanted to be a Jet, and obviously did not get a call from the Pats or Vikings (Two teams he said he'd like to return to). In a way, better to go out relatively on top, then pull a Brett Favre or Jerry Rice and play into your 40s.

As Neil Young once said "It's better to burn out, then to fade away".
I thought that was Joe Elliot from Def Leppard :laugh:

Stolen from Neil Young, Hey Heyk, My My

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDzpD_p1A8w

BloodyHorns82
08-02-2011, 04:22 PM
Moss wouldn't want to come back. He hates our catering so bad he wouldn't even feed it to his dog.

i_bleed_purple
08-03-2011, 07:18 PM
If Moss is serious about retiring, I think after preseason Vikes should call him up, see if he's seriously done, and if so give the guy a one-day contract to retire a Vike.

Love him or hate him, he was the most talented receiver to ever play the game, and the most exciting Viking to watch since Tark. Built his career as a Viking, seems right to retire as one, even if he's not going to come here to play.

2beersTommy
08-03-2011, 07:25 PM
I don't think he was serious..he'll play somewhere, but for a WHOLE LOT less.

i_bleed_purple
08-03-2011, 07:26 PM
He's apparently submitted the paperwork already, but as we know, it doesn't take a lot to get un-retired.

Zeus
08-03-2011, 07:38 PM
He's apparently submitted the paperwork already, but as we know, it doesn't take a lot to get un-retired.

God, I hope they sign him. Because nothing makes me more pumped for the Vikings than to have petulant WRs on the field who short-arm balls they could catch for TDs, cause disruptions in the locker room and bad mouth the coach to the owner.

=Z=

BloodyHorns82
08-03-2011, 07:42 PM
He's apparently submitted the paperwork already, but as we know, it doesn't take a lot to get un-retired.

God, I hope they sign him. Because nothing makes me more pumped for the Vikings than to have petulant WRs on the field who short-arm balls they could catch for TDs, cause disruptions in the locker room and bad mouth the coach to the owner.

=Z=

Yeah, I used to be a Moss apologist but I just can't do it anymore, not after his brief stint with the Vikings last season. Guy is a jerk off. Still pretty convinced he's bi-polar.

midgensa
08-03-2011, 07:50 PM
He's apparently submitted the paperwork already, but as we know, it doesn't take a lot to get un-retired.

God, I hope they sign him. Because nothing makes me more pumped for the Vikings than to have petulant WRs on the field who short-arm balls they could catch for TDs, cause disruptions in the locker room and bad mouth the coach to the owner.

=Z=

Yeah, I used to be a Moss apologist but I just can't do it anymore, not after his brief stint with the Vikings last season. Guy is a jerk off. Still pretty convinced he's bi-polar.
Ding, ding, ding.

That is the winner for today.

I am almost sure he is bi-polar. My mother (a psychiatrist) said this about three years into his career and I think it seems completely accurate.

While it may not be exactly bi-polar, he could definitely have something going on. He seems to have such immense ups and downs I almost feel sorry for him ... almost.

This last stint in Minnesota made me very sad. I thought it was a chance for him to give us 2 or 3 more years, put up average to good numbers and really redeem himself to a fanbase that wants nothing more than to love him.

And he shit on all of it.

Caine
08-03-2011, 10:30 PM
He's apparently submitted the paperwork already, but as we know, it doesn't take a lot to get un-retired.

God, I hope they sign him. Because nothing makes me more pumped for the Vikings than to have petulant WRs on the field who short-arm balls they could catch for TDs, cause disruptions in the locker room and bad mouth the coach to the owner.

=Z=

Yeah, I used to be a Moss apologist but I just can't do it anymore, not after his brief stint with the Vikings last season. Guy is a jerk off. Still pretty convinced he's bi-polar.
Ding, ding, ding.

That is the winner for today.

I am almost sure he is bi-polar. My mother (a psychiatrist) said this about three years into his career and I think it seems completely accurate.

While it may not be exactly bi-polar, he could definitely have something going on. He seems to have such immense ups and downs I almost feel sorry for him ... almost.

This last stint in Minnesota made me very sad. I thought it was a chance for him to give us 2 or 3 more years, put up average to good numbers and really redeem himself to a fanbase that wants nothing more than to love him.

And he shit on all of it.

Whereas I tend to be of the belief that he simply told the truth about the coach.

I don't feel he failed the fans, he was simply Randy. He wanted to win, and he quickly realized that we weren't being put in a position to do so by the person whose JOB it is to get us ready.

The ONLY issue I might take with him is blowing up at a caterer...but once you put it into the context of everything else that was wrong with last season, that really is a petty issue.

In short, I don't think he failed anybody last season. I think Chiller screwed the pooch (again), and Randy took the blame because he's a convenient target.

Caine

ndnorseman
08-03-2011, 10:41 PM
100% agreed, Caine. I mentioned this in another post, but I'll reiterate it here. Moss has done some things he shouldn't have, but the large majority them have been blown out of proportion by the Media, and by pure haters (some of them being both).

I, for one, would be really happy if Moss gave Minny one more chance, now that that bald, Napoleon-complex having, Major Dad-looking, douche-bottle isn't on the sidelines anymore. I believe Moss could really flourish under Frazier/Musgrave and end his career on a high note.

JMO

i_bleed_purple
08-03-2011, 10:45 PM
He's apparently submitted the paperwork already, but as we know, it doesn't take a lot to get un-retired.

God, I hope they sign him. Because nothing makes me more pumped for the Vikings than to have petulant WRs on the field who short-arm balls they could catch for TDs, cause disruptions in the locker room and bad mouth the coach to the owner.

=Z=

Yeah, I used to be a Moss apologist but I just can't do it anymore, not after his brief stint with the Vikings last season. Guy is a jerk off. Still pretty convinced he's bi-polar.
Ding, ding, ding.

That is the winner for today.

I am almost sure he is bi-polar. My mother (a psychiatrist) said this about three years into his career and I think it seems completely accurate.

While it may not be exactly bi-polar, he could definitely have something going on. He seems to have such immense ups and downs I almost feel sorry for him ... almost.

This last stint in Minnesota made me very sad. I thought it was a chance for him to give us 2 or 3 more years, put up average to good numbers and really redeem himself to a fanbase that wants nothing more than to love him.

And he shit on all of it.

Whereas I tend to be of the belief that he simply told the truth about the coach.

I don't feel he failed the fans, he was simply Randy. He wanted to win, and he quickly realized that we weren't being put in a position to do so by the person whose JOB it is to get us ready.

The ONLY issue I might take with him is blowing up at a caterer...but once you put it into the context of everything else that was wrong with last season, that really is a petty issue.

In short, I don't think he failed anybody last season. I think Chiller screwed the pooch (again), and Randy took the blame because he's a convenient target.

Caine

Exactly.

If you want to hold it against him that he quit on the Raiders, fine.

If you want to hold it against him that he quit on one deep route with us last year, fine.

But to claim he quit on the fans and shit on his opportunity is a tad bit of a stretch.

Was he a perfectly behaved little boy? No.

Did he have a positive impact on our offense? Yes.

Did he maybe call out the coach when he would have been better keeping his mouth shut? Yes, but the end result was Chlly got fired, so I consider the Moss 2.0 a success.

midgensa
08-03-2011, 10:53 PM
He's apparently submitted the paperwork already, but as we know, it doesn't take a lot to get un-retired.

God, I hope they sign him. Because nothing makes me more pumped for the Vikings than to have petulant WRs on the field who short-arm balls they could catch for TDs, cause disruptions in the locker room and bad mouth the coach to the owner.

=Z=

Yeah, I used to be a Moss apologist but I just can't do it anymore, not after his brief stint with the Vikings last season. Guy is a jerk off. Still pretty convinced he's bi-polar.
Ding, ding, ding.

That is the winner for today.

I am almost sure he is bi-polar. My mother (a psychiatrist) said this about three years into his career and I think it seems completely accurate.

While it may not be exactly bi-polar, he could definitely have something going on. He seems to have such immense ups and downs I almost feel sorry for him ... almost.

This last stint in Minnesota made me very sad. I thought it was a chance for him to give us 2 or 3 more years, put up average to good numbers and really redeem himself to a fanbase that wants nothing more than to love him.

And he shit on all of it.

Whereas I tend to be of the belief that he simply told the truth about the coach.

I don't feel he failed the fans, he was simply Randy. He wanted to win, and he quickly realized that we weren't being put in a position to do so by the person whose JOB it is to get us ready.

The ONLY issue I might take with him is blowing up at a caterer...but once you put it into the context of everything else that was wrong with last season, that really is a petty issue.

In short, I don't think he failed anybody last season. I think Chiller screwed the pooch (again), and Randy took the blame because he's a convenient target.

Caine

Exactly.

If you want to hold it against him that he quit on the Raiders, fine.

If you want to hold it against him that he quit on one deep route with us last year, fine.

But to claim he quit on the fans and shit on his opportunity is a tad bit of a stretch.

Was he a perfectly behaved little boy? No.

Did he have a positive impact on our offense? Yes.

Did he maybe call out the coach when he would have been better keeping his mouth shut? Yes, but the end result was Chlly got fired, so I consider the Moss 2.0 a success.
By being a pout-baby whiney shit, he effectively shits on all of us that wanted 2.0 to be a wonderful experience.

A PROFESSIONAL does not do what he did with the coach. PERIOD. He could have went to Wilf behind the scenes and kept it to himself.

He didn't just quit on the ball in New England. He quit on the last play in Green Bay. He clearly was not interested much after the first contest because he didn't like the coach. WAH.

He quit in Oakland. He quit in Tennessee. And now he is quitting because no good teams want him. WAAAAAAAH.

I love Moss. Always will. But his entire career goes down as a "what if" and that is all on him ... period. By being disrespectful to teams (like he was to all of them that he played for on multiple occasions) he is disrespectful to those fan bases. Simple as that.

He could have legitimately challenged Rice. Hell, I am convinced Me-rry Rice stuck around for a few years just to try and keep Moss from his numbers.

Instead, he pouted. In Minny, in Oakland, in New England, back in Minny, in Tennessee and now all the way to retirement. In the end ... it is all more of a shame than it is greatness.

2beersTommy
08-03-2011, 11:37 PM
looks like the Iggles might


The Eagles made a contract offer to Randy Moss after the receiver filed his official retirement papers with the league, according to the Boston Herald.
The Eagles just won't stop. Moss' filing of his retirement papers isn't significant as he can unretire any time he wants. If he is truly intrigued by the Eagles' offer, there's a good chance it will still happen. And based on the way veterans are flocking to Philly to play with Mike Vick, we would no longer be surprised. For what it's worth, two Eagles sources tell the Philadelphia Inquirer that the team never called Moss' agent about signing.

midgensa
08-03-2011, 11:42 PM
Why the hell not Philly. It would be a good fit. But with Jackson and Maclin ... he would likely just be pouting by Week 4.

i_bleed_purple
08-03-2011, 11:44 PM
Why the hell not Philly. It would be a good fit. But with Jackson and Maclin ... he would likely just be pouting by Week 4.

except Jackson is holding out and Maclin is out with some unknown issue. Moss could be their #1 guy on week 1.

midgensa
08-03-2011, 11:58 PM
Why the hell not Philly. It would be a good fit. But with Jackson and Maclin ... he would likely just be pouting by Week 4.

except Jackson is holding out and Maclin is out with some unknown issue. Moss could be their #1 guy on week 1.

Jackson WILL ABSOLUTELY be back before the accrued season deadline. He will be their No. 1 guy on week 1. It is a 100 percent lock. The Maclin issue is curious, but they seem to think he will be there Week 1 as well.
Jackson will be in camp tomorrow I think. That is when he would start getting fined and he won't let that happen.

Caine
08-04-2011, 11:12 AM
He's apparently submitted the paperwork already, but as we know, it doesn't take a lot to get un-retired.

God, I hope they sign him. Because nothing makes me more pumped for the Vikings than to have petulant WRs on the field who short-arm balls they could catch for TDs, cause disruptions in the locker room and bad mouth the coach to the owner.

=Z=

Yeah, I used to be a Moss apologist but I just can't do it anymore, not after his brief stint with the Vikings last season. Guy is a jerk off. Still pretty convinced he's bi-polar.
Ding, ding, ding.

That is the winner for today.

I am almost sure he is bi-polar. My mother (a psychiatrist) said this about three years into his career and I think it seems completely accurate.

While it may not be exactly bi-polar, he could definitely have something going on. He seems to have such immense ups and downs I almost feel sorry for him ... almost.

This last stint in Minnesota made me very sad. I thought it was a chance for him to give us 2 or 3 more years, put up average to good numbers and really redeem himself to a fanbase that wants nothing more than to love him.

And he shit on all of it.

Whereas I tend to be of the belief that he simply told the truth about the coach.

I don't feel he failed the fans, he was simply Randy. He wanted to win, and he quickly realized that we weren't being put in a position to do so by the person whose JOB it is to get us ready.

The ONLY issue I might take with him is blowing up at a caterer...but once you put it into the context of everything else that was wrong with last season, that really is a petty issue.

In short, I don't think he failed anybody last season. I think Chiller screwed the pooch (again), and Randy took the blame because he's a convenient target.

Caine

Exactly.

If you want to hold it against him that he quit on the Raiders, fine.

If you want to hold it against him that he quit on one deep route with us last year, fine.

But to claim he quit on the fans and shit on his opportunity is a tad bit of a stretch.

Was he a perfectly behaved little boy? No.

Did he have a positive impact on our offense? Yes.

Did he maybe call out the coach when he would have been better keeping his mouth shut? Yes, but the end result was Chlly got fired, so I consider the Moss 2.0 a success.
By being a pout-baby whiney shit, he effectively shits on all of us that wanted 2.0 to be a wonderful experience.

A PROFESSIONAL does not do what he did with the coach. PERIOD. He could have went to Wilf behind the scenes and kept it to himself.

He didn't just quit on the ball in New England. He quit on the last play in Green Bay. He clearly was not interested much after the first contest because he didn't like the coach. WAH.

He quit in Oakland. He quit in Tennessee. And now he is quitting because no good teams want him. WAAAAAAAH.

I love Moss. Always will. But his entire career goes down as a "what if" and that is all on him ... period. By being disrespectful to teams (like he was to all of them that he played for on multiple occasions) he is disrespectful to those fan bases. Simple as that.

He could have legitimately challenged Rice. Hell, I am convinced Me-rry Rice stuck around for a few years just to try and keep Moss from his numbers.

Instead, he pouted. In Minny, in Oakland, in New England, back in Minny, in Tennessee and now all the way to retirement. In the end ... it is all more of a shame than it is greatness.

Except put all of those in context:

He quit on Oakland after Oakland quit on itself.

He never quit on Tennessee, he simply wasn't used - and they had one hell of a screwed up locker room.

He made a comment to Wilf, ALLEGEDLY, in passing, that wasn't even reported on until MUCH later. In short, he didn't stand on a table in the locker room and shout it out - he took an opportunity as it was presented. Was it the BEST call? No. But neither was he wrong.

Randy has always been very clear about wanting to win. He has also shown that he has little patience for those who don't - or for those who can't seem to figure out how to. He figured out real quick that Chiller didn't have a clue...something that many of us already knew. And when he was MISUSED and IGNORED for 4 weeks, he got frustrated.

So, he was supposed to simply eat it? Nope. He made it clear taht he was frustrated.

So, what did the idiot coach do? Did he call Randy in and say, "Randy, we have some issues to sort out"? Nope. Did he say, "Randy, how can we get you more involved"? Nope.

He cut him.

Randy didn't shit on the fans, Childress did. Then he wrote Randy's name in the steaming poo, and you believed it.

Caine

Marrdro
08-04-2011, 01:22 PM
Except put all of those in context:

He quit on Oakland after Oakland quit on itself.

He never quit on Tennessee, he simply wasn't used - and they had one hell of a screwed up locker room.

He made a comment to Wilf, ALLEGEDLY, in passing, that wasn't even reported on until MUCH later. In short, he didn't stand on a table in the locker room and shout it out - he took an opportunity as it was presented. Was it the BEST call? No. But neither was he wrong.

Randy has always been very clear about wanting to win. He has also shown that he has little patience for those who don't - or for those who can't seem to figure out how to. He figured out real quick that Chiller didn't have a clue...something that many of us already knew. And when he was MISUSED and IGNORED for 4 weeks, he got frustrated.

So, he was supposed to simply eat it? Nope. He made it clear taht he was frustrated.

So, what did the idiot coach do? Did he call Randy in and say, "Randy, we have some issues to sort out"? Nope. Did he say, "Randy, how can we get you more involved"? Nope.

He cut him.

Randy didn't shit on the fans, Childress did. Then he wrote Randy's name in the steaming poo, and you believed it.

Caine
Wow, and you say I'm a guy who comes up with wild stuff that goes quickly out of the realm of reality.

Couple of questions.....

1. How many teams actually pursued Moss last year?

2. How many teams actually pursued Moss this year?

Face it my friend, he was a great player, arguably one of the best, but he just isn't a threat anymore. Thats why teams haven't fell all over them selves trying to sign him.

He wanted to go to a couple of select teams and when they didn't return the love, he did what Randy always does, takes his ball and goes home.

On a side note, I found all the discussions that have been held over the last few days about his place in Canton very interesting especially the ones that put him and TO up as candidates.

I was suprised to see that TO's numbers were pretty comparable.

Caine
08-04-2011, 01:56 PM
Except put all of those in context:

He quit on Oakland after Oakland quit on itself.

He never quit on Tennessee, he simply wasn't used - and they had one hell of a screwed up locker room.

He made a comment to Wilf, ALLEGEDLY, in passing, that wasn't even reported on until MUCH later. In short, he didn't stand on a table in the locker room and shout it out - he took an opportunity as it was presented. Was it the BEST call? No. But neither was he wrong.

Randy has always been very clear about wanting to win. He has also shown that he has little patience for those who don't - or for those who can't seem to figure out how to. He figured out real quick that Chiller didn't have a clue...something that many of us already knew. And when he was MISUSED and IGNORED for 4 weeks, he got frustrated.

So, he was supposed to simply eat it? Nope. He made it clear taht he was frustrated.

So, what did the idiot coach do? Did he call Randy in and say, "Randy, we have some issues to sort out"? Nope. Did he say, "Randy, how can we get you more involved"? Nope.

He cut him.

Randy didn't shit on the fans, Childress did. Then he wrote Randy's name in the steaming poo, and you believed it.

Caine
Wow, and you say I'm a guy who comes up with wild stuff that goes quickly out of the realm of reality.

Couple of questions.....

1. How many teams actually pursued Moss last year?

2. How many teams actually pursued Moss this year?

Face it my friend, he was a great player, arguably one of the best, but he just isn't a threat anymore. Thats why teams haven't fell all over them selves trying to sign him.

He wanted to go to a couple of select teams and when they didn't return the love, he did what Randy always does, takes his ball and goes home.

On a side note, I found all the discussions that have been held over the last few days about his place in Canton very interesting especially the ones that put him and TO up as candidates.

I was suprised to see that TO's numbers were pretty comparable.

Now we're using the "how many teams pursued him" criteria?

How many teams persued Jackson?

Oh...wait....we can't use that here. We can only use that to determine Randy's worth.

Hmmmm...how many teams drafted him in the 1st round? 21 of them let him slide....

How many teams drafted Rodgers?

Just because teams don't pursue someone doesn't make that person less valuable (ask Tom Brady).

According to statements released by his agent, there have been quite a few teams making offers...he just hasn't been significantly interested.

But he's probably lying, right? Zygi Wilf made him say that....

Caine

Marrdro
08-04-2011, 01:59 PM
Except put all of those in context:

He quit on Oakland after Oakland quit on itself.

He never quit on Tennessee, he simply wasn't used - and they had one hell of a screwed up locker room.

He made a comment to Wilf, ALLEGEDLY, in passing, that wasn't even reported on until MUCH later. In short, he didn't stand on a table in the locker room and shout it out - he took an opportunity as it was presented. Was it the BEST call? No. But neither was he wrong.

Randy has always been very clear about wanting to win. He has also shown that he has little patience for those who don't - or for those who can't seem to figure out how to. He figured out real quick that Chiller didn't have a clue...something that many of us already knew. And when he was MISUSED and IGNORED for 4 weeks, he got frustrated.

So, he was supposed to simply eat it? Nope. He made it clear taht he was frustrated.

So, what did the idiot coach do? Did he call Randy in and say, "Randy, we have some issues to sort out"? Nope. Did he say, "Randy, how can we get you more involved"? Nope.

He cut him.

Randy didn't shit on the fans, Childress did. Then he wrote Randy's name in the steaming poo, and you believed it.

Caine
Wow, and you say I'm a guy who comes up with wild stuff that goes quickly out of the realm of reality.

Couple of questions.....

1. How many teams actually pursued Moss last year?

2. How many teams actually pursued Moss this year?

Face it my friend, he was a great player, arguably one of the best, but he just isn't a threat anymore. Thats why teams haven't fell all over them selves trying to sign him.

He wanted to go to a couple of select teams and when they didn't return the love, he did what Randy always does, takes his ball and goes home.

On a side note, I found all the discussions that have been held over the last few days about his place in Canton very interesting especially the ones that put him and TO up as candidates.

I was suprised to see that TO's numbers were pretty comparable.

Now we're using the "how many teams pursued him" criteria?

How many teams persued Jackson?

Oh...wait....we can't use that here. We can only use that to determine Randy's worth.

Hmmmm...how many teams drafted him in the 1st round? 21 of them let him slide....

How many teams drafted Rodgers?

Just because teams don't pursue someone doesn't make that person less valuable (ask Tom Brady).

According to statements released by his agent, there have been quite a few teams making offers...he just hasn't been significantly interested.

But he's probably lying, right? Zygi Wilf made him say that....

Caine
The "Pursuit" criteria is yours that you've used alot on here thats why I used it.

As always, when it doesn't work to support your theories you throw it out and come with the "Agent Says" analysis.

Caine
08-04-2011, 03:52 PM
Except put all of those in context:

He quit on Oakland after Oakland quit on itself.

He never quit on Tennessee, he simply wasn't used - and they had one hell of a screwed up locker room.

He made a comment to Wilf, ALLEGEDLY, in passing, that wasn't even reported on until MUCH later. In short, he didn't stand on a table in the locker room and shout it out - he took an opportunity as it was presented. Was it the BEST call? No. But neither was he wrong.

Randy has always been very clear about wanting to win. He has also shown that he has little patience for those who don't - or for those who can't seem to figure out how to. He figured out real quick that Chiller didn't have a clue...something that many of us already knew. And when he was MISUSED and IGNORED for 4 weeks, he got frustrated.

So, he was supposed to simply eat it? Nope. He made it clear taht he was frustrated.

So, what did the idiot coach do? Did he call Randy in and say, "Randy, we have some issues to sort out"? Nope. Did he say, "Randy, how can we get you more involved"? Nope.

He cut him.

Randy didn't shit on the fans, Childress did. Then he wrote Randy's name in the steaming poo, and you believed it.

Caine
Wow, and you say I'm a guy who comes up with wild stuff that goes quickly out of the realm of reality.

Couple of questions.....

1. How many teams actually pursued Moss last year?

2. How many teams actually pursued Moss this year?

Face it my friend, he was a great player, arguably one of the best, but he just isn't a threat anymore. Thats why teams haven't fell all over them selves trying to sign him.

He wanted to go to a couple of select teams and when they didn't return the love, he did what Randy always does, takes his ball and goes home.

On a side note, I found all the discussions that have been held over the last few days about his place in Canton very interesting especially the ones that put him and TO up as candidates.

I was suprised to see that TO's numbers were pretty comparable.

Now we're using the "how many teams pursued him" criteria?

How many teams persued Jackson?

Oh...wait....we can't use that here. We can only use that to determine Randy's worth.

Hmmmm...how many teams drafted him in the 1st round? 21 of them let him slide....

How many teams drafted Rodgers?

Just because teams don't pursue someone doesn't make that person less valuable (ask Tom Brady).

According to statements released by his agent, there have been quite a few teams making offers...he just hasn't been significantly interested.

But he's probably lying, right? Zygi Wilf made him say that....

Caine
The "Pursuit" criteria is yours that you've used alot on here thats why I used it.

As always, when it doesn't work to support your theories you throw it out and come with the "Agent Says" analysis.

As I said, there were "a bunch of teams" who inquired about Moss according to his agent. So, even with that criteria in, Moss is still a viable WR option. And, rumor has it that Philly just tossed a contract offer at him.

So, I'm not throwing anything out...just pointing out how you like to pick and choose the criteria for different players, depending upon who you have the most blind love or haste for at the moment.

You rejected the "Offers" criteria for Jackson, but threw it out there for Moss. In other words, YOU are the one changing tunes (Again), not me.

Caine

Culpepper_4717
08-07-2011, 08:42 PM
Daunte Culpepper, Former Vikings QB, joined "Jason & The GM" to talk Randy Moss on Mad Dog Radio

http://siriusxmsports.posterous.com/daunte-culpepper-former-vikings-qb-joined-jas

skum
08-07-2011, 08:44 PM
Daunte Culpepper, Former Vikings QB, joined "Jason & The GM" to talk Randy Moss on Mad Dog Radio

http://siriusxmsports.posterous.com/daunte-culpepper-former-vikings-qb-joined-jas

The Cold Blooded Connection..

Thats Viking History!

i_bleed_purple
08-09-2011, 12:57 PM
Jerry Rice: Randy Moss' laziness was hard for me to swallow
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/09/jerry-rice-randy-mosss-laziness-was-hard-for-me-to-swallow/


Jerry Rice is widely regarded as the best wide receiver ever to play the game, but he says he wasn’t the most talented. Randy Moss, Rice says, was more talented....

Caine
08-09-2011, 02:21 PM
Jerry Rice: Randy Moss' laziness was hard for me to swallow
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/09/jerry-rice-randy-mosss-laziness-was-hard-for-me-to-swallow/


Jerry Rice is widely regarded as the best wide receiver ever to play the game, but he says he wasn’t the most talented. Randy Moss, Rice says, was more talented....

I agree with Rice, 100%.

Doesn't mean I think Randy has nothing left - quite the contrary.

Caine

midgensa
08-09-2011, 02:46 PM
He's apparently submitted the paperwork already, but as we know, it doesn't take a lot to get un-retired.

God, I hope they sign him. Because nothing makes me more pumped for the Vikings than to have petulant WRs on the field who short-arm balls they could catch for TDs, cause disruptions in the locker room and bad mouth the coach to the owner.

=Z=

Yeah, I used to be a Moss apologist but I just can't do it anymore, not after his brief stint with the Vikings last season. Guy is a jerk off. Still pretty convinced he's bi-polar.
Ding, ding, ding.

That is the winner for today.

I am almost sure he is bi-polar. My mother (a psychiatrist) said this about three years into his career and I think it seems completely accurate.

While it may not be exactly bi-polar, he could definitely have something going on. He seems to have such immense ups and downs I almost feel sorry for him ... almost.

This last stint in Minnesota made me very sad. I thought it was a chance for him to give us 2 or 3 more years, put up average to good numbers and really redeem himself to a fanbase that wants nothing more than to love him.

And he shit on all of it.

Whereas I tend to be of the belief that he simply told the truth about the coach.

I don't feel he failed the fans, he was simply Randy. He wanted to win, and he quickly realized that we weren't being put in a position to do so by the person whose JOB it is to get us ready.

The ONLY issue I might take with him is blowing up at a caterer...but once you put it into the context of everything else that was wrong with last season, that really is a petty issue.

In short, I don't think he failed anybody last season. I think Chiller screwed the pooch (again), and Randy took the blame because he's a convenient target.

Caine

Exactly.

If you want to hold it against him that he quit on the Raiders, fine.

If you want to hold it against him that he quit on one deep route with us last year, fine.

But to claim he quit on the fans and shit on his opportunity is a tad bit of a stretch.

Was he a perfectly behaved little boy? No.

Did he have a positive impact on our offense? Yes.

Did he maybe call out the coach when he would have been better keeping his mouth shut? Yes, but the end result was Chlly got fired, so I consider the Moss 2.0 a success.
By being a pout-baby whiney shit, he effectively shits on all of us that wanted 2.0 to be a wonderful experience.

A PROFESSIONAL does not do what he did with the coach. PERIOD. He could have went to Wilf behind the scenes and kept it to himself.

He didn't just quit on the ball in New England. He quit on the last play in Green Bay. He clearly was not interested much after the first contest because he didn't like the coach. WAH.

He quit in Oakland. He quit in Tennessee. And now he is quitting because no good teams want him. WAAAAAAAH.

I love Moss. Always will. But his entire career goes down as a "what if" and that is all on him ... period. By being disrespectful to teams (like he was to all of them that he played for on multiple occasions) he is disrespectful to those fan bases. Simple as that.

He could have legitimately challenged Rice. Hell, I am convinced Me-rry Rice stuck around for a few years just to try and keep Moss from his numbers.

Instead, he pouted. In Minny, in Oakland, in New England, back in Minny, in Tennessee and now all the way to retirement. In the end ... it is all more of a shame than it is greatness.

Except put all of those in context:

He quit on Oakland after Oakland quit on itself.

He never quit on Tennessee, he simply wasn't used - and they had one hell of a screwed up locker room.

He made a comment to Wilf, ALLEGEDLY, in passing, that wasn't even reported on until MUCH later. In short, he didn't stand on a table in the locker room and shout it out - he took an opportunity as it was presented. Was it the BEST call? No. But neither was he wrong.

Randy has always been very clear about wanting to win. He has also shown that he has little patience for those who don't - or for those who can't seem to figure out how to. He figured out real quick that Chiller didn't have a clue...something that many of us already knew. And when he was MISUSED and IGNORED for 4 weeks, he got frustrated.

So, he was supposed to simply eat it? Nope. He made it clear taht he was frustrated.

So, what did the idiot coach do? Did he call Randy in and say, "Randy, we have some issues to sort out"? Nope. Did he say, "Randy, how can we get you more involved"? Nope.

He cut him.

Randy didn't shit on the fans, Childress did. Then he wrote Randy's name in the steaming poo, and you believed it.

Caine

The blame Chiller only argument is old and tired. If Randy had a problem with the coach, he should have went to the coach, not the other way around. Instead, he makes a few backhanded statements about his coach, his idiot coach gets wind of it and says that is that.

He should not be holding press conferences in New England discussing how much he wishes he was still there. He should not be causing scenes in the fucking dining hall. He should not EVER, anywhere, for any reason be quitting on plays like he did in New England and Green Bay, and like he did for much of his short tenure in Tennessee.

Was Chiller an idiot and a douchebag? Absolutely. Does that in any way excuse Randy Moss for being an idiot and a douchebag? Absolutely not.

midgensa
08-09-2011, 02:48 PM
Jerry Rice: Randy Moss' laziness was hard for me to swallow
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/09/jerry-rice-randy-mosss-laziness-was-hard-for-me-to-swallow/


Jerry Rice is widely regarded as the best wide receiver ever to play the game, but he says he wasn’t the most talented. Randy Moss, Rice says, was more talented....

I agree and think it is quite clear that Moss was the most talented receiver to ever play. I am convince that Me-rry Rice continued playing for as long as he could because he knew that Moss could make a run at his numbers.

That said ... everything Rice says is about one person and one person only ... himself. He is saying this to basically say "look how hard I worked to be great" ... it really has little to do with his actual feelings on Moss.

Caine
08-10-2011, 01:47 PM
The blame Chiller only argument is old and tired.

Right...blaming Moss is new and fresh, so we should do that....


If Randy had a problem with the coach, he should have went to the coach, not the other way around. Instead, he makes a few backhanded statements about his coach, his idiot coach gets wind of it and says that is that.

So, the burden of acting responsibly lies solely with Randy? According to him, he DID make statements to the coaching staff. He DID try and get involved in the process. They blew him off. He then went up the food chain. Maybe not the way one would like, but he also didn't make a huge scene.

Chiller, on the other hand, never hauled Randy in. Never chewed his butt. Never counseled him. Never tried to adjust him. In short, he never COACHED him. He just cut him.


He should not be holding press conferences in New England discussing how much he wishes he was still there.

Sorry, Randy is a celebrity. As such, he gets approached by the press. And with the NFL rules REQUIRING players to talk to the media, he's going to get talked to. And what was so wrong about what he said? Did you watch it? I did. He lauded the Patriots - a team he'd recently been a member of. No crime in that.


He should not be causing scenes in the fucking dining hall.

OK, that was a bad move...but was it a BIG DEAL? Nope. In fact, it was a non-story until they threw it out there after he was cut to try and characterize him as a problem. Fact is, the guy he ranted on made a ton of money on the deal. He got all kinds of free publicity, and his business boomed afterwards.


He should not EVER, anywhere, for any reason be quitting on plays like he did in New England and Green Bay, and like he did for much of his short tenure in Tennessee.

1: He didn't quit in Tennessee - his coaches flat out said that they simply didn't use him.

2: He quit on a play in New England. ONE play.

He also improved our offenses statistics just by being on the field. We scored more, we converted more 3rd downs. Funny how people like to pick out the 1 or 2 plays that piss them off but neglect to look at the overall picture.


Was Chiller an idiot and a douchebag? Absolutely. Does that in any way excuse Randy Moss for being an idiot and a douchebag? Absolutely not.

Again, I don't see Randy as an idiot or a douchebag. I see him as a competitive guy who was frustrated by his coaching staff's inability to utilize him, and their refusal to listen to him when he tried to help them gameplan versus New England.

But that's me.

Caine

i_bleed_purple
08-10-2011, 01:49 PM
The blame Chiller only argument is old and tired.

Right...blaming Moss is new and fresh, so we should do that....


If Randy had a problem with the coach, he should have went to the coach, not the other way around. Instead, he makes a few backhanded statements about his coach, his idiot coach gets wind of it and says that is that.

So, the burden of acting responsibly lies solely with Randy? According to him, he DID make statements to the coaching staff. He DID try and get involved in the process. They blew him off. He then went up the food chain. Maybe not the way one would like, but he also didn't make a huge scene.

Chiller, on the other hand, never hauled Randy in. Never chewed his butt. Never counseled him. Never tried to adjust him. In short, he never COACHED him. He just cut him.


He should not be holding press conferences in New England discussing how much he wishes he was still there.

Sorry, Randy is a celebrity. As such, he gets approached by the press. And with the NFL rules REQUIRING players to talk to the media, he's going to get talked to. And what was so wrong about what he said? Did you watch it? I did. He lauded the Patriots - a team he'd recently been a member of. No crime in that.


He should not be causing scenes in the fucking dining hall.

OK, that was a bad move...but was it a BIG DEAL? Nope. In fact, it was a non-story until they threw it out there after he was cut to try and characterize him as a problem. Fact is, the guy he ranted on made a ton of money on the deal. He got all kinds of free publicity, and his business boomed afterwards.


He should not EVER, anywhere, for any reason be quitting on plays like he did in New England and Green Bay, and like he did for much of his short tenure in Tennessee.

1: He didn't quit in Tennessee - his coaches flat out said that they simply didn't use him.

2: He quit on a play in New England. ONE play.

He also improved our offenses statistics just by being on the field. We scored more, we converted more 3rd downs. Funny how people like to pick out the 1 or 2 plays that piss them off but neglect to look at the overall picture.


Was Chiller an idiot and a douchebag? Absolutely. Does that in any way excuse Randy Moss for being an idiot and a douchebag? Absolutely not.

Again, I don't see Randy as an idiot or a douchebag. I see him as a competitive guy who was frustrated by his coaching staff's inability to utilize him, and their refusal to listen to him when he tried to help them gameplan versus New England.

But that's me.

Caine
quit making sense, you'll come off as an idiot or a douchebag.

Marrdro
08-10-2011, 02:25 PM
Is this one still going? Damn, isn't there something better to talk about?

i_bleed_purple
08-10-2011, 02:26 PM
Is this one still going? Damn, isn't there something better to talk about?

not really, no