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mountainviking
07-10-2011, 06:51 PM
Antoine Winfield: 2010?s Most Complete Corner?

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/07/10/antoine-winfield-nfls-most-complete-corner/

Good article, lots of nice points!

delviking
07-10-2011, 07:05 PM
yeah i liked the article especially the part about woodson having the most penalties of any corner.

but we all agree winfield is by and large the best all around corner in the league. yes theirs corner who cover better get more ints, and such but winfield shows the passion to make the every down play and also he can change a game around in a instant IE the eagles game last year and a panthers game a few seasons back.

tastywaves
07-11-2011, 05:06 PM
Obviously, coverage is the most important facet of any cornerback’s play, but offenses still run the ball anywhere between 40 and 50% of the time, and a corner that can’t hold up his end of the bargain in the run game is a problem, even if some people would prefer to bury their head in the sand about it because he can cover on the back end. Asante Samuel’s coverage numbers last season were bordering on ridiculous, but he was pulled from games by Eagles head coach Andy Reid for his inability to make simple tackles in the run game. This isn’t just us at PFF holding a purist view of things, you can’t just ignore two players out of 11 on D when it comes to the run game.

Especially true for the defense we've run over the last several years.

Caine
07-11-2011, 09:59 PM
Now THAT was a well written article. The author didn't make any pie-in-the-sky claims, but instead backed up his opinion with well thought out arguments supported by statistical facts.

Caine

mountainviking
07-12-2011, 03:30 PM
I am so freakin stoked we resigned him longterm!!!

People rip on our defense often for some reason, but while our rush D did drop a bit to 9th in the NFL last year (still top 10) with 3 backup CBs playing extensively we still improved our overall defensive rankings to 8th in total yards allowed and 10th in passing yards.

Unfortunately, the offense didn't back them up, resulting in a -11 Turnover Differential good for 4th worst in the league and dropping our points allowed ranking to 18th!!!! DOH!

i Think i just Shots my Feets off!!?!?!?! ;) :P

jmcdon00
07-12-2011, 04:01 PM
I am so freakin stoked we resigned him longterm!!!

People rip on our defense often for some reason, but while our rush D did drop a bit to 9th in the NFL last year (still top 10) with 3 backup CBs playing extensively we still improved our overall defensive rankings to 8th in total yards allowed and 10th in passing yards.

Unfortunately, the offense didn't back them up, resulting in a -11 Turnover Differential good for 4th worst in the league and dropping our points allowed ranking to 18th!!!! DOH!

i Think i just Shots my Feets off!!?!?!?! ;) :P
It's easy to imagine them being a top 5 defense this year. Unfortunately the same can't be said for the offense.

BloodyHorns82
07-12-2011, 05:37 PM
I am so freakin stoked we resigned him longterm!!!

People rip on our defense often for some reason, but while our rush D did drop a bit to 9th in the NFL last year (still top 10) with 3 backup CBs playing extensively we still improved our overall defensive rankings to 8th in total yards allowed and 10th in passing yards.

Unfortunately, the offense didn't back them up, resulting in a -11 Turnover Differential good for 4th worst in the league and dropping our points allowed ranking to 18th!!!! DOH!

i Think i just Shots my Feets off!!?!?!?! ;) :P
It's easy to imagine them being a top 5 defense this year. Unfortunately the same can't be said for the offense.

While it is easy to imagine them as a top 5 defense, it's also easy to imagine them as only a top 20 defense. Seems like they're on a downward trend going back a few years. They've gone from great to just good during that span.

The offense could be good. If Rice comes back and Harvin stays healthy that still leaves Peterson and a promising new QB. The odds aren't in our favor but it's not like it's out of the realm of possibility for them to surprise us in a positive way either.

Johnson14
07-12-2011, 09:44 PM
I am so freakin stoked we resigned him longterm!!!

People rip on our defense often for some reason, but while our rush D did drop a bit to 9th in the NFL last year (still top 10) with 3 backup CBs playing extensively we still improved our overall defensive rankings to 8th in total yards allowed and 10th in passing yards.

Unfortunately, the offense didn't back them up, resulting in a -11 Turnover Differential good for 4th worst in the league and dropping our points allowed ranking to 18th!!!! DOH!

i Think i just Shots my Feets off!!?!?!?! ;) :P
It's easy to imagine them being a top 5 defense this year. Unfortunately the same can't be said for the offense.

While it is easy to imagine them as a top 5 defense, it's also easy to imagine them as only a top 20 defense. Seems like they're on a downward trend going back a few years. They've gone from great to just good during that span.

The offense could be good. If Rice comes back and Harvin stays healthy that still leaves Peterson and a promising new QB. The odds aren't in our favor but it's not like it's out of the realm of possibility for them to surprise us in a positive way either.

Thats a fair point. Especially possibly losing the likes of Leber, Pat Williams, Jimmy Kennedy, Ray Edwards etc.

I actually think our CB's, when healthy, are pretty strong set. Ced being hurt killed us, then losing Cook when he showed so much promise was another massive blow. But a healthy core of Winfield, Ced, Cook, Walker (who did a standout job imho), plus the rooks and 2/3yr guys.. and we'll have the making of a solid defensive back field.

marshallvike
07-12-2011, 10:34 PM
I am so freakin stoked we resigned him longterm!!!

People rip on our defense often for some reason, but while our rush D did drop a bit to 9th in the NFL last year (still top 10) with 3 backup CBs playing extensively we still improved our overall defensive rankings to 8th in total yards allowed and 10th in passing yards.

Unfortunately, the offense didn't back them up, resulting in a -11 Turnover Differential good for 4th worst in the league and dropping our points allowed ranking to 18th!!!! DOH!

i Think i just Shots my Feets off!!?!?!?! ;) :P
It's easy to imagine them being a top 5 defense this year. Unfortunately the same can't be said for the offense.

While it is easy to imagine them as a top 5 defense, it's also easy to imagine them as only a top 20 defense. Seems like they're on a downward trend going back a few years. They've gone from great to just good during that span.

The offense could be good. If Rice comes back and Harvin stays healthy that still leaves Peterson and a promising new QB. The odds aren't in our favor but it's not like it's out of the realm of possibility for them to surprise us in a positive way either.

Don't forget, Childress with his mandated Tampa/Cover2 defense was in charge during the slide in our run D. I realize we are getting a little long in the tooth in a few positions, but Leslie seems to a little more inclined to let the D run more aggressively than his predessor. Hopefully that will put more life in our D.

dfosterf
07-12-2011, 11:42 PM
Snaggely-tooth Winfield should hang up the cleats. Put a fork in him, he's done. B)

You guys are like the NFL / Vikes version of civil-war buffs. :P

Marrdro
07-13-2011, 12:27 AM
I love the ref site. Wasn't long ago Caine was hacking on them. Now he is legitimizing them. LOL......Said it before, he cracks me up.

Anyway, everyone knows my feelings on Whinny. I want my CB's to stop the pass first, sto the run second. Whinny does them the exact opposite. He's great in run support but sucks when it comes to pass coverage on the outside.

From the now credible source.......


I know there are some people who are only interested in coverage when it comes to a cornerback’s play, and for those people, Winfield wouldn’t be your top guy last season. That’s not to say he had a poor year in coverage, far from it, but he wasn’t our top graded player in that regard – Champ Bailey was – and what makes Winfield special is his ability to be a force in multiple areas of the game, something very rare today.



What Leslie did with him last year was about the only thing that Leslie did smart and thats to move him to the inside as much as possible and let one of the other CB's take over duties on the outside.

By doing that he allowed Whinny to take reps off, which I believe actually helped him in his abilities to stay healthy (something he hasn't been able to do) and it allowed him to be closer to the ball which helped him in the area of closing on the ball.

LOL, wasn't to long ago a yutz on here came up with some sort of hairbrained discussion point (he actualy started a thread) that wondered if we should Whinny in at S. That yutz still remembers the posters who scoffed, and yet, are the posters who have been bringing that very topic up alot recently.

I wonder if that yutz feels that that attempt at stimulating discussion, which was scoffed at like BR is, could now be now considered a "Legitimate" idea for a discussion topic......LOL.

i_bleed_purple
07-13-2011, 12:50 AM
I love the ref site. Wasn't long ago Caine was hacking on them. Now he is legitimizing them. LOL......Said it before, he cracks me up.

Anyway, everyone knows my feelings on Whinny. I want my CB's to stop the pass first, sto the run second. Whinny does them the exact opposite. He's great in run support but sucks when it comes to pass coverage on the outside.

From the now credible source.......


I know there are some people who are only interested in coverage when it comes to a cornerback’s play, and for those people, Winfield wouldn’t be your top guy last season. That’s not to say he had a poor year in coverage, far from it, but he wasn’t our top graded player in that regard – Champ Bailey was – and what makes Winfield special is his ability to be a force in multiple areas of the game, something very rare today.



What Leslie did with him last year was about the only thing that Leslie did smart and thats to move him to the inside as much as possible and let one of the other CB's take over duties on the outside.

By doing that he allowed Whinny to take reps off, which I believe actually helped him in his abilities to stay healthy (something he hasn't been able to do) and it allowed him to be closer to the ball which helped him in the area of closing on the ball.

LOL, wasn't to long ago a yutz on here came up with some sort of hairbrained discussion point (he actualy started a thread) that wondered if we should Whinny in at S. That yutz still remembers the posters who scoffed, and yet, are the posters who have been bringing that very topic up alot recently.

I wonder if that yutz feels that that attempt at stimulating discussion, which was scoffed at like BR is, could now be now considered a "Legitimate" idea for a discussion topic......LOL.

How exactly is he legitimizing them? He simply said it was a well written article. I agree. It's not full of absolute shit like alot of things I see. While claiming Winfield is the best in the league might be a stretch, it's presented well in a way that you can see his point using FACTS rather than just watching and saying "yeah, he's the best".

Marrdro
07-13-2011, 12:23 PM
I love the ref site. Wasn't long ago Caine was hacking on them. Now he is legitimizing them. LOL......Said it before, he cracks me up.

Anyway, everyone knows my feelings on Whinny. I want my CB's to stop the pass first, sto the run second. Whinny does them the exact opposite. He's great in run support but sucks when it comes to pass coverage on the outside.

From the now credible source.......


I know there are some people who are only interested in coverage when it comes to a cornerback’s play, and for those people, Winfield wouldn’t be your top guy last season. That’s not to say he had a poor year in coverage, far from it, but he wasn’t our top graded player in that regard – Champ Bailey was – and what makes Winfield special is his ability to be a force in multiple areas of the game, something very rare today.



What Leslie did with him last year was about the only thing that Leslie did smart and thats to move him to the inside as much as possible and let one of the other CB's take over duties on the outside.

By doing that he allowed Whinny to take reps off, which I believe actually helped him in his abilities to stay healthy (something he hasn't been able to do) and it allowed him to be closer to the ball which helped him in the area of closing on the ball.

LOL, wasn't to long ago a yutz on here came up with some sort of hairbrained discussion point (he actualy started a thread) that wondered if we should Whinny in at S. That yutz still remembers the posters who scoffed, and yet, are the posters who have been bringing that very topic up alot recently.

I wonder if that yutz feels that that attempt at stimulating discussion, which was scoffed at like BR is, could now be now considered a "Legitimate" idea for a discussion topic......LOL.

How exactly is he legitimizing them? He simply said it was a well written article. I agree. It's not full of absolute shit like alot of things I see. While claiming Winfield is the best in the league might be a stretch, it's presented well in a way that you can see his point using FACTS rather than just watching and saying "yeah, he's the best".
Because its presented well and uses stats as facts ehhhhh.

Who is it on here who continually hacks on me for using stats (multiple times for using PFF stats) to spur on a discussion point?

LOL, keep trying though. I give you a BR (get it BR) for your efforts. :laugh:

Marrdro
07-13-2011, 12:27 PM
Don't forget, Childress with his mandated Tampa/Cover2 defense was in charge during the slide in our run D. I realize we are getting a little long in the tooth in a few positions, but Leslie seems to a little more inclined to let the D run more aggressively than his predessor. Hopefully that will put more life in our D.
Wait a minute, wait a minute.

Yet another poster who says the Chiller had a hand in the defense. I thought Tomlin and ultimately Frazier were left alone to run the defense and the Chiller only meddled in the offense.

One thing I will blame the Chiller.......Sticking with Phat Pat so long without forcing the staff to draft a eventual replacement that could have helped take reps off. Instead we get the likes of Evans (who couldn't even make it on the active game day roster) and JK, a under achieving NT that only wants to play DE.

Our run defense has slide, as you said, because players got old, nothing more, nothing esle, unless of course you want to consider the possibility that maybe our DT's were only good because of steroids. :ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy:

marshallvike
07-14-2011, 09:17 PM
Don't forget, Childress with his mandated Tampa/Cover2 defense was in charge during the slide in our run D. I realize we are getting a little long in the tooth in a few positions, but Leslie seems to a little more inclined to let the D run more aggressively than his predessor. Hopefully that will put more life in our D.
Wait a minute, wait a minute.

Yet another poster who says the Chiller had a hand in the defense. I thought Tomlin and ultimately Frazier were left alone to run the defense and the Chiller only meddled in the offense.

One thing I blame the Chiller.......Sticking with Phat Pat so long without forcing the staff to draft a eventual replacement that could have helped take reps off. Instead we get the likes of Evans (who couldn't even make it on the active game day roster) and JK, a under achieving NT that only wants to play DE.

Our run defense has slide, as you said, because players got old, nothing more, nothing esle, unless of course you want to consider the possibility that maybe our DT's were only good because of steroids. :ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy:

Easy marrdro, no need to load the 12 Guage.:)
Although I didn't like Childress as our HC, I did not blame him for everything and anything that went wrong with the Vikings and our country. I think you would agree though, that with few exceptions, the head coach decides what type of offense and defense his team will run. Just because Chilly didn't name his defense as he did his KAO,doesn't mean that it wasn't his decision to run T2. I firmly believe Leslie ran the defense HIS BOSS wanted to run. As he did under Tony Dungy. It seems evident, by his willingness to move away from it so quickly when he took over, that he may feel more comfortable with a more aggressive defense. If Leslie was sold on the belief that the ccover 2 was the absolute best defense to run, that would be the defense we would still be running. ( I am assuming by what we saw and what we have read, that is not the case).
That being said, I do think Childress had more control over draft picks and personnel acquisitions than you seem to believe. But that is a matter of opinion. Doesn't make me right, just what I have deduced in my little mind.

And I was pretty sure I would get a rise out of you with that first sentence about mandated defense. lol