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View Full Version : Possible WR Replacements WHEN/IF Rice Walks?



SpaceMTN69
06-29-2011, 05:58 AM
Just wanted to throw a few names out there for you guys and see which ones you would jump on if say the Vikings had a chance. If the money they want to committ to Rice doesnt sway him, I am sure another guy wouldn't mind that contract coming his way. Here are a few names I wouldn't mind on the Vikes roster next season:

Steve Smith (NYG)
Mike Sims-Walker (JAC)
Plaxico Burress (FA)
James Jones (GB)

If there are others who I did not name. feel free to share!

i_bleed_purple
06-29-2011, 01:35 PM
Braylon Edwards
Randy Moss (hehe)
Santana Moss
Santonio Holmes
James Jones
Steve Smith (NYG)
Steve Smith (CAR)
TO
Ocho
Plaxico Burress

Any of the above can probably be had, and would instantly help out our receiving corps

Marrdro
06-29-2011, 01:48 PM
I think you have to look at it from a scheme point of view.....I.e. what does Rice bring to the table.

a. Big tall possesion reciever that will work the short to intermediate routes and if necessary go deep if the mismatch is there.

Smith - Giants = to small. Slot guy like Harvin. Not a good fit.
Jones - EX-PUKER. Nothing else needs to be said.
Sims-walder - Interesting prospect. Problem for me is why aren't the Jags trying to keep him? It isn't like they have anyone better.

For me - my priority:

a. V. Jackson. Big/Tall Possesion guy. Catches anything close. Can work the inside and outside. Deadly in the red zone.

b. Rice. Same as Jackson. Worry about health reasons.

c. Plex. Same as Jackson. I think he will have something to prove. Question is, will he opt to sign with the Vikes this time around?

d. Braylon. Interesting guy. Has had droppsy issues. If the Jets let him walk, I think he will definately have a chip and might really come to prove something.

e. Stallworth. Crafty vet that would really be a nice target for a rook QB.

Macken
06-29-2011, 02:52 PM
All good reasons and i agree with most of them. I dont think VJax wants to come to minny but may change his mind. Plex is just a problem and i hope they dont go that route.

Braylon is also another problem and for a rookie qb having a WR drop as many as balls he does isnt going to be good in his head.

Stallworth isnt a good choice either because i dont think he has the playmaking ability that the vikings are looking for. I may be wrong but we are talking about Donte Stallworth right?

Sims walker would be a great fit but like you said i dont see the jags letting him go in the end.

I sit and continue to pray that they make a move and acquire Eric Decker :)

Marrdro
06-29-2011, 03:19 PM
All good reasons and i agree with most of them. I dont think VJax wants to come to minny but may change his mind. Plex is just a problem and i hope they dont go that route.

Braylon is also another problem and for a rookie qb having a WR drop as many as balls he does isnt going to be good in his head.

Stallworth isnt a good choice either because i dont think he has the playmaking ability that the vikings are looking for. I may be wrong but we are talking about Donte Stallworth right?

Sims walker would be a great fit but like you said i dont see the jags letting him go in the end.

I sit and continue to pray that they make a move and acquire Eric Decker :)
Three things.....

1. Love your posts. Keep them coming.

2. WR issues. Seems that all of the "Good" ones have some sort of "Diva" like quality. I kindof try to ignore that aspect when it comes to the WR position.

3. Eric Decker? Bronco's?/Gophers? If so, loved his size when he was coming out but don't think he is a FA is he?

Macken
06-29-2011, 03:33 PM
No Decker is not a FA but he saw limited time with them last year due to his injury and i dont think the broncos have any plans for him with Royal and Thomas around still. the vikings could pick him up via a trade and not have to give up too much, i mean he is the all time big 10 leading wr...

Marrdro
06-29-2011, 03:39 PM
No Decker is not a FA but he saw limited time with them last year due to his injury and i dont think the broncos have any plans for him with Royal and Thomas around still. the vikings could pick him up via a trade and not have to give up too much, i mean he is the all time big 10 leading wr...
OK, I'm tracking now.

Interesting idea about trading for him. Right now, though, if I was Ricky Boy I wouldn't get rid of any of my picks, especially for a kid that I passed on already. Were did he go, 4th round or something like that?

I'd rather see what Arceneaux could do. He has experience, albeit not at the NFL level and seems to be cut of the same ilk that Rice, Jackson and Plex are and is a hell of alot cheaper.

The fans, and press, will freak out, however, if Rice gets away and they say that their plan is Arceneaux though. :lol:

Macken
06-29-2011, 03:43 PM
No Decker is not a FA but he saw limited time with them last year due to his injury and i dont think the broncos have any plans for him with Royal and Thomas around still. the vikings could pick him up via a trade and not have to give up too much, i mean he is the all time big 10 leading wr...
OK, I'm tracking now.

Interesting idea about trading for him. Right now, though, if I was Ricky Boy I wouldn't get rid of any of my picks, especially for a kid that I passed on already. Were did he go, 4th round or something like that?

I'd rather see what Arceneaux could do. He has experience, albeit not at the NFL level and seems to be cut of the same ilk that Rice, Jackson and Plex are and is a hell of alot cheaper.

The fans, and press, will freak out, however, if Rice gets away and they say that their plan is Arceneaux though. :lol:

Arceneaux? who is this you speak of? i have been out of the loop as of late on the sports side of the world starting this new job.

Marrdro
06-29-2011, 03:54 PM
No Decker is not a FA but he saw limited time with them last year due to his injury and i dont think the broncos have any plans for him with Royal and Thomas around still. the vikings could pick him up via a trade and not have to give up too much, i mean he is the all time big 10 leading wr...
OK, I'm tracking now.

Interesting idea about trading for him. Right now, though, if I was Ricky Boy I wouldn't get rid of any of my picks, especially for a kid that I passed on already. Were did he go, 4th round or something like that?

I'd rather see what Arceneaux could do. He has experience, albeit not at the NFL level and seems to be cut of the same ilk that Rice, Jackson and Plex are and is a hell of alot cheaper.

The fans, and press, will freak out, however, if Rice gets away and they say that their plan is Arceneaux though. :lol:

Arceneaux? who is this you speak of? i have been out of the loop as of late on the sports side of the world starting this new job.

CFL'r they picked up after the season. My guess they were looking for a cheap replacement for Rice or atleast a guy on the roster who could step in of they resigned Rice and he went down.

Vikes Sign Arceneaux to 3 year deal (http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Vikings_sign_Emmanuel_Arceneaux_out_of_CFL_receiver_says012211)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spWZ9zDX-co

jargomcfargo
06-29-2011, 04:29 PM
I think you have to look at it from a scheme point of view.....I.e. what does Rice bring to the table.

a. Big tall possesion reciever that will work the short to intermediate routes and if necessary go deep if the mismatch is there.

Smith - Giants = to small. Slot guy like Harvin. Not a good fit.
Jones - EX-PUKER. Nothing else needs to be said.
Sims-walder - Interesting prospect. Problem for me is why aren't the Jags trying to keep him? It isn't like they have anyone better.

For me - my priority:

a. V. Jackson. Big/Tall Possesion guy. Catches anything close. Can work the inside and outside. Deadly in the red zone.

b. Rice. Same as Jackson. Worry about health reasons.

c. Plex. Same as Jackson. I think he will have something to prove. Question is, will he opt to sign with the Vikes this time around?

d. Braylon. Interesting guy. Has had droppsy issues. If the Jets let him walk, I think he will definately have a chip and might really come to prove something.

e. Stallworth. Crafty vet that would really be a nice target for a rook QB.

I agree. It is crucial to replace Rice with a receiver who brings the same skill set to the team. Tall third down and red zone possesion type receiver with atheletic ability and great hands.
Two minor variations on your list for me.

First and foremost, I place Rice at the top of the list despite his injury history. Who are we going to find to replace him that will be as good or better, and want to come play up north with a rookie QB and a rebuilding team?

Other than injury issues Rice has no sognificant diva or off field issues and we know what he fits the scheme as a vital part.

Minnesota should open the wallet for him and do everything possible to keep him.

Second, if he is replaced, I would strongly favor a young player at the end of his first contract over any of the older band aids. I doubt bringing in a guy from the CFL is going to be an immediate answer.

Ponder will need a go to guy. That guy could be a tight end but more likely Rice would be that guy.

It goes without saying, Rice should have been extended last season.

Marrdro
06-29-2011, 04:39 PM
I think you have to look at it from a scheme point of view.....I.e. what does Rice bring to the table.

a. Big tall possesion reciever that will work the short to intermediate routes and if necessary go deep if the mismatch is there.

Smith - Giants = to small. Slot guy like Harvin. Not a good fit.
Jones - EX-PUKER. Nothing else needs to be said.
Sims-walder - Interesting prospect. Problem for me is why aren't the Jags trying to keep him? It isn't like they have anyone better.

For me - my priority:

a. V. Jackson. Big/Tall Possesion guy. Catches anything close. Can work the inside and outside. Deadly in the red zone.

b. Rice. Same as Jackson. Worry about health reasons.

c. Plex. Same as Jackson. I think he will have something to prove. Question is, will he opt to sign with the Vikes this time around?

d. Braylon. Interesting guy. Has had droppsy issues. If the Jets let him walk, I think he will definately have a chip and might really come to prove something.

e. Stallworth. Crafty vet that would really be a nice target for a rook QB.

I agree. It is crucial to replace Rice with a receiver who brings the same skill set to the team. Tall third down and red zone possesion type receiver with atheletic ability and great hands.
Two minor variations on your list for me.

First and foremost, I place Rice at the top of the list despite his injury history. Who are we going to find to replace him that will be as good or better, and want to come play up north with a rookie QB and a rebuilding team?

Other than injury issues Rice has no sognificant diva or off field issues and we know what he fits the scheme as a vital part.

Minnesota should open the wallet for him and do everything possible to keep him.

Second, if he is replaced, I would strongly favor a young player at the end of his first contract over any of the older band aids. I doubt bringing in a guy from the CFL is going to be an immediate answer.
Ponder will need a go to guy. That guy could be a tight end but more likely Rice would be that guy.

It goes without saying, Rice should have been extended last season.
How about as a fix/depth behind Rice? We really don't have one of those unless you count Brown, Baskett or Buron.


-- Emmanuel Arceneaux WR 23 6-2 210 R Alcorn State
19 Hank Baskett WR 28 6-4 220 6 New Mexico
87 Bernard Berrian WR 30 6-1 185 8 Fresno State
84 Freddie Brown WR 25 6-4 200 1 Utah
86 Stephen Burton WR 21 6-1 221 R West Texas A&M
85 Greg Camarillo WR 29 6-1 190 6 Stanford
12 Percy Harvin WR 23 5-11 184 3 Florida
84 Juaquin Iglesias WR 23 6-1 205 2 Oklahoma
11 Jaymar Johnson WR 26 6-0 176 3 Jackson State
17 Greg Lewis WR 31 6-0 185 9 Illinois
18 Sidney Rice WR 24 6-4 202 5 South Carolina

Macken
06-29-2011, 04:45 PM
I value rice way more then a CFLer who played against undersized and slower CBs. he looks promising but adapting to the NFL isnt easy for cflers. What are your thoughts on making a move for Matt Jones? I think in this situation if Rice does walk they are going to have to look at the trade tables for a replacement as the FA field just doesnt offer the same kind of threat that Rice does.

i_bleed_purple
06-29-2011, 04:49 PM
Matt Jones has done nothing so far, I don't expect he'll all of a sudden become a good player.

here's a list of the WR Free agents, and their rankings by Scout.com
http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&yr=2011&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&pid=16

b_sandhar_29
06-29-2011, 04:59 PM
One thing that has always got me to stop to think is: What about Jaymar Johnson? I figured with all his injuries by now we would have let him walk. Fitzgerald said he was ready for a breakout year this past year. Never happened with his wrist injury (I think?). In 2009 I also believe Chillar said Jaymar Johnson was the hardest working player on the team. Maybe he's a diamond in the rough waiting for his moment. The kid from the CFL is a pretty interesting prospect and in my opinion draws a lot of comparison to Marques Colston. We may not have the sexiest WR corp, but you never know, the FO could think they have a good enough WR corp and will decide to pursue other positions when FA begins.

Marrdro
06-29-2011, 05:07 PM
One thing that has always got me to stop to think is: What about Jaymar Johnson? I figured with all his injuries by now we would have let him walk. Fitzgerald said he was ready for a breakout year this past year. Never happened with his wrist injury (I think?). In 2009 I also believe Chillar said Jaymar Johnson was the hardest working player on the team. Maybe he's a diamond in the rough waiting for his moment. The kid from the CFL is a pretty interesting prospect and in my opinion draws a lot of comparison to Marques Colston. We may not have the sexiest WR corp, but you never know, the FO could think they have a good enough WR corp and will decide to pursue other positions when FA begins.
Funny (not hahaha but interesting funny) that you would mention JJ. Read something on him this morning.

Jaymar Putting In The Work Again
(http://www.vikingsgab.com/2011/06/29/jaymar-putting-in-the-work-again/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+VikingsGab+%28Vikings+Gab%29)

Edit: at 6' 176 lbs, I don't think he has the skillset Rice provides.

jmcdon00
06-29-2011, 05:08 PM
Matt Jones has done nothing so far, I don't expect he'll all of a sudden become a good player.

here's a list of the WR Free agents, and their rankings by Scout.com
http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&yr=2011&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&pid=16
Are we talking about the Matt jones from Jacksonville who hasn't played since 08 and says he's retired?
Interestingly in his first 4 years he had more catches and yards than Rice but slightly fewer TDs.

Mark_The_Viking
06-29-2011, 05:15 PM
Seems the common consencus is when not if. be a shame though

jmcdon00
06-29-2011, 05:22 PM
Seems the common consencus is when not if. be a shame though
I wouldn't say consensus.

i_bleed_purple
06-29-2011, 05:34 PM
One thing that has always got me to stop to think is: What about Jaymar Johnson? I figured with all his injuries by now we would have let him walk. Fitzgerald said he was ready for a breakout year this past year. Never happened with his wrist injury (I think?). In 2009 I also believe Chillar said Jaymar Johnson was the hardest working player on the team. Maybe he's a diamond in the rough waiting for his moment. The kid from the CFL is a pretty interesting prospect and in my opinion draws a lot of comparison to Marques Colston. We may not have the sexiest WR corp, but you never know, the FO could think they have a good enough WR corp and will decide to pursue other positions when FA begins.
Funny (not hahaha but interesting funny) that you would mention JJ. Read something on him this morning.

Jaymar Putting In The Work Again
(http://www.vikingsgab.com/2011/06/29/jaymar-putting-in-the-work-again/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+VikingsGab+%28Vikings+Gab%29)

Edit: at 6' 176 lbs, I don't think he has the skillset Rice provides.

Time's running out for JJ. Don't get me wrong, I like the kid, but he's had waht, 3, 4 years now to make an impact? Most players in that situation don't last that long.

jargomcfargo
06-29-2011, 07:17 PM
Seems the common consencus is when not if. be a shame though

It would seem so, but we do have this.


Frazier has maintained the Vikings want to retain Rice, and NFL.com’s Steve Wyche told fans during a Thursday chat that he believes the team will be competitive in its effort to keep the four-year veteran.
“I know this: The Vikings really, really, really want to re-sign Rice, and I know they’ll be competitive in the market place,” Wyche wrote. “I think they’ll have a limit as to how much they’d spend, though. Rice only has been healthy for one season and that is a concern. Still, they know how good he is and how much they’d be hurting if he left. I think he’s back in Minnesota.”


http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/06/23/wyche-vikings-will-be-competitive-in-rice-market/

SpaceMTN69
06-30-2011, 11:34 AM
I'll say this: If Vincent Jackson is there for the taking and he will listen to an offer from Spielman, then Sidney Rice MUST be let go. While it would benefit the team greatly to have both VJAX and Rice on the roster next season, that doesnt seem likely. Vincent Jackson is an absolute stud with a track record of consistency. This is something we cannott say about Rice. While I will always enjoy what Sidney did for the Vikings in 09, he will be an afterthought if Jackson can be courted.

Marrdro
06-30-2011, 03:04 PM
I'll say this: If Vincent Jackson is there for the taking and he will listen to an offer from Spielman, then Sidney Rice MUST be let go. While it would benefit the team greatly to have both VJAX and Rice on the roster next season, that doesnt seem likely. Vincent Jackson is an absolute stud with a track record of consistency. This is something we cannott say about Rice. While I will always enjoy what Sidney did for the Vikings in 09, he will be an afterthought if Jackson can be courted.
Hadn't thought of both Rice and VJ. Might be a bit of an over kill to have them both.

i_bleed_purple
06-30-2011, 03:06 PM
I'll say this: If Vincent Jackson is there for the taking and he will listen to an offer from Spielman, then Sidney Rice MUST be let go. While it would benefit the team greatly to have both VJAX and Rice on the roster next season, that doesnt seem likely. Vincent Jackson is an absolute stud with a track record of consistency. This is something we cannott say about Rice. While I will always enjoy what Sidney did for the Vikings in 09, he will be an afterthought if Jackson can be courted.
Hadn't thought of both Rice and VJ. Might be a bit of an over kill to have them both.

Reminds me of a Simpsons episode I watched a couple days ago



on first class flight:

flight attendant: What would you like for dinner sir, one steak, or two steaks?

Homer: Ooohh... could i have both?

flight attendant: Certainly.

jargomcfargo
06-30-2011, 04:32 PM
Sidney Rice Is Everywhere These Days

To take this story in yet another direction, apparently the reports of a pre-lockout contract offer from the Vikings to Rice were incorrect. The Pioneer Press reports that a contract extension was discussed but that an offer was never made. Once again, Drew Rosenhaus was behind this news as he attended a charity event for the Jack Brewer Foundation in Minneapolis.
“The Vikings have been good to him,” said Rosenhaus. “There’s just so many factors that will take place once the lockout is lifted.”


http://www.vikingsgab.com/2011/06/30/sidney-rice-is-everywhere-these-days/

Marrdro
06-30-2011, 05:02 PM
Seems the common consencus is when not if. be a shame though

It would seem so, but we do have this.


Frazier has maintained the Vikings want to retain Rice, and NFL.com’s Steve Wyche told fans during a Thursday chat that he believes the team will be competitive in its effort to keep the four-year veteran.
“I know this: The Vikings really, really, really want to re-sign Rice, and I know they’ll be competitive in the market place,” Wyche wrote. “I think they’ll have a limit as to how much they’d spend, though. Rice only has been healthy for one season and that is a concern. Still, they know how good he is and how much they’d be hurting if he left. I think he’s back in Minnesota.”


http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/06/23/wyche-vikings-will-be-competitive-in-rice-market/
Thanks for the read doc.

ejmat
07-03-2011, 04:09 PM
The WR position is definitely a concern for the Vikings. I would love to have VJax and Rice. Why not have both if you could? Especially given Rice's injury history.

Arceneaux would be a diamond if he pays out however remember rules in the CFL are different than the NFL. I watched that video that Marrdro supplied. The kid seems to have good hands which is awesome. However, it seems like the CFL gets away with a lot more movement from the offense and some would be considered illegal picks imo. Would he be as productive in the NFL without that luxury? I don't know. I don't watch enough CFL to know the entire pisture.

We have Harvin which is good. We need to go out and get someone that doesn't mind splitting the load and can be a #1 WR if Rice should go down again. IMO Rice is good with great hands and body control. VJax has those same qualities. Harvin does too but we all know he does better in the slot when there is a WR that can stretch the field. Maybe Arceneaux can provide that but it's an unknown right now.

My priorities would be trying to get VJax. However, there are more out there that has been brought up already. The Vikes need that good compliment to Rice. Berrian could be if he would stay healthy and actually give a rats ass about the game. IMO he doesn't.

Johnson14
07-03-2011, 05:50 PM
I would love to see VJax but dont see him coming here. Steve Smith (Car) would be good too, i may be alone in this one but i would not be sad to see Plaxico come here. He isn't a smart guy but he can play football.

Caine
07-03-2011, 07:44 PM
I would love to see VJax but dont see him coming here. Steve Smith (Car) would be good too, i may be alone in this one but i would not be sad to see Plaxico come here. He isn't a smart guy but he can play football.

..and if the opposing DB's shut him down, he can just shoot them.

:ohmy:

Caine

Marrdro
07-04-2011, 02:11 PM
The WR position is definitely a concern for the Vikings. I would love to have VJax and Rice. Why not have both if you could? Especially given Rice's injury history.

Arceneaux would be a diamond if he pays out however remember rules in the CFL are different than the NFL. I watched that video that Marrdro supplied. The kid seems to have good hands which is awesome. However, it seems like the CFL gets away with a lot more movement from the offense and some would be considered illegal picks imo. Would he be as productive in the NFL without that luxury? I don't know. I don't watch enough CFL to know the entire pisture.

We have Harvin which is good. We need to go out and get someone that doesn't mind splitting the load and can be a #1 WR if Rice should go down again. IMO Rice is good with great hands and body control. VJax has those same qualities. Harvin does too but we all know he does better in the slot when there is a WR that can stretch the field. Maybe Arceneaux can provide that but it's an unknown right now.

My priorities would be trying to get VJax. However, there are more out there that has been brought up already. The Vikes need that good compliment to Rice. Berrian could be if he would stay healthy and actually give a rats ass about the game. IMO he doesn't.
Two Edit Three things....

CFL rules allow the WR to be running when he gets to the line as long as he doesn't cross before the ball is snapped.

What I really focused on with respect to the kid was his ability to twist/contort and still catch a badly thrown ball.

If you take a look at Rice/Plex and Jackson, that is a quality they have that is hard to come by.

Not sure how the staff is going to resign the ones they need to resign. Kindof why I didn't put any thought into them signing two "Big Contract" WR's.

i_bleed_purple
07-04-2011, 02:22 PM
The WR position is definitely a concern for the Vikings. I would love to have VJax and Rice. Why not have both if you could? Especially given Rice's injury history.

Arceneaux would be a diamond if he pays out however remember rules in the CFL are different than the NFL. I watched that video that Marrdro supplied. The kid seems to have good hands which is awesome. However, it seems like the CFL gets away with a lot more movement from the offense and some would be considered illegal picks imo. Would he be as productive in the NFL without that luxury? I don't know. I don't watch enough CFL to know the entire pisture.

We have Harvin which is good. We need to go out and get someone that doesn't mind splitting the load and can be a #1 WR if Rice should go down again. IMO Rice is good with great hands and body control. VJax has those same qualities. Harvin does too but we all know he does better in the slot when there is a WR that can stretch the field. Maybe Arceneaux can provide that but it's an unknown right now.

My priorities would be trying to get VJax. However, there are more out there that has been brought up already. The Vikes need that good compliment to Rice. Berrian could be if he would stay healthy and actually give a rats ass about the game. IMO he doesn't.
Two Edit Three things....

CFL rules allow the WR to be running when he gets to the line as long as he doesn't cross before the ball is snapped.

What I really focused on with respect to the kid was his ability to twist/contort and still catch a badly thrown ball.

If you take a look at Rice/Plex and Jackson, that is a quality they have that is hard to come by.

Not sure how the staff is going to resign the ones they need to resign. Kindof why I didn't put any thought into them signing two "Big Contract" WR's.

You have to also think, if he's as good as you claim, and is going to replace Rice in our offense, why was he in the CFL?

Johnson14
07-04-2011, 09:08 PM
I would love to see VJax but dont see him coming here. Steve Smith (Car) would be good too, i may be alone in this one but i would not be sad to see Plaxico come here. He isn't a smart guy but he can play football.

..and if the opposing DB's shut him down, he can just shoot them.

:ohmy:

Caine

No.. he only shoots himself :laugh:

Marrdro
07-05-2011, 12:51 PM
You have to also think, if he's as good as you claim, and is going to replace Rice in our offense, why was he in the CFL?
Yet again you have missed my whole point and made up some other thing. Again, this is why you believe my discussion points are so off kilter.

First, I never claimed he was good. I said he is an interesting prospect that I think the staff has brought in as either a backup to Rice or a possible replacement if they are going to go cheap and let Rice walk with no other viable option such as Jackson or Plex.

As to why he was in the CFL? Who knows. Maybe all the scouts missed him the first time around. Maybe he had injury issues. Maybe he had drug issues.

All I know is the staff didn't just sign him to a "Futures" contract, they signed him to a 3 year deal with gauranteed money.

Again, nothing I did. Something the staff did that I threw out there as something to "Ponder".

I guess I need to get the crayons out for you and Caine. :P