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Marrdro
06-20-2011, 04:23 PM
As a pass rusher, Williams offers practically nothing. In fact, in a study yours truly conducted, Williams generated a quarterback pressure on just 1.16% of the 259 times he rushed the passer; the worst number of all defensive tackles who rushed the passer at least 200 times.

Accepting the idea that hes not a pass rusher, his defensive stops number must be high given how disruptive he is the run game, right? Not quite. In 2010, with 18 defensive stops, Williams finished a mediocre 36th of all defensive tackles.

What Williams offers is far more than anything that shows up on a stat sheet.




A big and powerful defensive tackle, Williams is capable of stacking up linemen, plugging holes, and is surprisingly effective at chasing down runners along the line. The point being that when you try to run at Pat Williams hes still good enough to make that decision look foolish in a variety of ways.

The list of offensive guards and centers this year that were left dealing with this is as extensive as it is impressive.




As youd expect, Williams is getting older and isnt quite playing at his Pro Bowl level of 2009. During that season, he was he was our 2nd ranked defensive tackle in run defense. He dropped to 11th in 2010, although, interestingly, he did play more snaps.

In fact, last year saw Williams increase his amount of regular season snaps by 12.63% on his 2009 total. A significant amount, and one that would help explain why Williams had such a mediocre finish to 2010; only one game tagged with a strongly positive grade in the final six weeks of the season.



Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution
(http://)
I actually found it interesting that he took more snaps this year than last.

Again, I love the big guy and would love to see him back, but only if he is willing to cede reps to the younger guys and is willing to take a big pay cut.

Caine
06-20-2011, 10:37 PM
As a pass rusher, Williams offers practically nothing. In fact, in a study yours truly conducted, Williams generated a quarterback pressure on just 1.16% of the 259 times he rushed the passer; the worst number of all defensive tackles who rushed the passer at least 200 times.

Accepting the idea that hes not a pass rusher, his defensive stops number must be high given how disruptive he is the run game, right? Not quite. In 2010, with 18 defensive stops, Williams finished a mediocre 36th of all defensive tackles.

What Williams offers is far more than anything that shows up on a stat sheet.




A big and powerful defensive tackle, Williams is capable of stacking up linemen, plugging holes, and is surprisingly effective at chasing down runners along the line. The point being that when you try to run at Pat Williams hes still good enough to make that decision look foolish in a variety of ways.

The list of offensive guards and centers this year that were left dealing with this is as extensive as it is impressive.




As youd expect, Williams is getting older and isnt quite playing at his Pro Bowl level of 2009. During that season, he was he was our 2nd ranked defensive tackle in run defense. He dropped to 11th in 2010, although, interestingly, he did play more snaps.

In fact, last year saw Williams increase his amount of regular season snaps by 12.63% on his 2009 total. A significant amount, and one that would help explain why Williams had such a mediocre finish to 2010; only one game tagged with a strongly positive grade in the final six weeks of the season.



Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution
(http://)
I actually found it interesting that he took more snaps this year than last.

Again, I love the big guy and would love to see him back, but only if he is willing to cede reps to the younger guys and is willing to take a big pay cut.

Doubt he'll be willing to do either. Pat has a lot of pride.

I personally think that he is a great assett on the line - he plugs holes and eats linemen (Which allows ray Edwards to have opportunities :whistle: ), but I don't think he can maintain for a full season any more.

He's going to be tough to replace.

Caine

vikinggreg
06-21-2011, 02:53 AM
As a pass rusher, Williams offers practically nothing. In fact, in a study yours truly conducted, Williams generated a quarterback pressure on just 1.16% of the 259 times he rushed the passer; the worst number of all defensive tackles who rushed the passer at least 200 times.

Accepting the idea that hes not a pass rusher, his defensive stops number must be high given how disruptive he is the run game, right? Not quite. In 2010, with 18 defensive stops, Williams finished a mediocre 36th of all defensive tackles.

What Williams offers is far more than anything that shows up on a stat sheet.




A big and powerful defensive tackle, Williams is capable of stacking up linemen, plugging holes, and is surprisingly effective at chasing down runners along the line. The point being that when you try to run at Pat Williams hes still good enough to make that decision look foolish in a variety of ways.

The list of offensive guards and centers this year that were left dealing with this is as extensive as it is impressive.




As youd expect, Williams is getting older and isnt quite playing at his Pro Bowl level of 2009. During that season, he was he was our 2nd ranked defensive tackle in run defense. He dropped to 11th in 2010, although, interestingly, he did play more snaps.

In fact, last year saw Williams increase his amount of regular season snaps by 12.63% on his 2009 total. A significant amount, and one that would help explain why Williams had such a mediocre finish to 2010; only one game tagged with a strongly positive grade in the final six weeks of the season.



Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution
(http://)
I actually found it interesting that he took more snaps this year than last.
Again, I love the big guy and would love to see him back, but only if he is willing to cede reps to the younger guys and is willing to take a big pay cut.

He did miss a game against the Bears in 09 and did play all the games in 2010 and if you go back and look at 2008 he missed 2 games with the broken scapula so its not the surprising to get more snaps in 2010 when you're there for the entire season compared with the 2 previous seasons.

Purple Floyd
06-21-2011, 03:41 AM
Pat was a stalwart in the run game and if we ran a 3-4 I could see him being elite but what our team needs right now is a guy who can put pressure on the QB and Pat is not that guy. Will we drop in our rankings against the run? Yes. But if we can get back to where we no longer make every QB look like a HOF, especially with the way our division is trending offensively we need to do what we can to make it happen. I can see having a guy like that for goal line situations possibly but I really want to see us get smaller, faster and younger in the interior of the DL.

Marrdro
06-21-2011, 12:35 PM
As a pass rusher, Williams offers practically nothing. In fact, in a study yours truly conducted, Williams generated a quarterback pressure on just 1.16% of the 259 times he rushed the passer; the worst number of all defensive tackles who rushed the passer at least 200 times.

Accepting the idea that hes not a pass rusher, his defensive stops number must be high given how disruptive he is the run game, right? Not quite. In 2010, with 18 defensive stops, Williams finished a mediocre 36th of all defensive tackles.

What Williams offers is far more than anything that shows up on a stat sheet.




A big and powerful defensive tackle, Williams is capable of stacking up linemen, plugging holes, and is surprisingly effective at chasing down runners along the line. The point being that when you try to run at Pat Williams hes still good enough to make that decision look foolish in a variety of ways.

The list of offensive guards and centers this year that were left dealing with this is as extensive as it is impressive.




As youd expect, Williams is getting older and isnt quite playing at his Pro Bowl level of 2009. During that season, he was he was our 2nd ranked defensive tackle in run defense. He dropped to 11th in 2010, although, interestingly, he did play more snaps.

In fact, last year saw Williams increase his amount of regular season snaps by 12.63% on his 2009 total. A significant amount, and one that would help explain why Williams had such a mediocre finish to 2010; only one game tagged with a strongly positive grade in the final six weeks of the season.



Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution
(http://)
I actually found it interesting that he took more snaps this year than last.

Again, I love the big guy and would love to see him back, but only if he is willing to cede reps to the younger guys and is willing to take a big pay cut.

Doubt he'll be willing to do either. Pat has a lot of pride.

I personally think that he is a great assett on the line - he plugs holes and eats linemen (Which allows ray Edwards to have opportunities :whistle: ), but I don't think he can maintain for a full season any more.

He's going to be tough to replace.

Caine
Good points, and I agree on all of them. Problem is, although he can plug up the run, the pocket sure doesn't get collapsed much anymore.

Worst thing the type of defense we run world, no pressure up the middle allowing the QB to simply step up and away from the outside rush.

Marrdro
06-21-2011, 12:42 PM
Pat was a stalwart in the run game and if we ran a 3-4 I could see him being elite but what our team needs right now is a guy who can put pressure on the QB and Pat is not that guy. Will we drop in our rankings against the run? Yes. But if we can get back to where we no longer make every QB look like a HOF, especially with the way our division is trending offensively we need to do what we can to make it happen. I can see having a guy like that for goal line situations possibly but I really want to see us get smaller, faster and younger in the interior of the DL.
Well said Adequately articulated my friend.

Again, I would love to see him stay on, but only in a role were he is coming into games were they need to shut down the run with someone else eating up the primary snaps in our base defense as well as passing downs.

Like Whinny, I think he is a liability in the passing game.

Marrdro
06-21-2011, 12:43 PM
He did miss a game against the Bears in 09 and did play all the games in 2010 and if you go back and look at 2008 he missed 2 games with the broken scapula so its not the surprising to get more snaps in 2010 when you're there for the entire season compared with the 2 previous seasons.
Good points.

Still, all in all I would have thought his snaps would have been down last year.

I think I am going to add another column to my game chart (number of snaps). Might make it to busy, but I will see if it works out.

Johnson14
06-21-2011, 02:43 PM
Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution
(http://)
I actually found it interesting that he took more snaps this year than last.

Again, I love the big guy and would love to see him back, but only if he is willing to cede reps to the younger guys and is willing to take a big pay cut.

+1

Would love to see him back here, think he could really help out the young guys.

Marrdro
06-21-2011, 04:07 PM
Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution
(http://)
I actually found it interesting that he took more snaps this year than last.

Again, I love the big guy and would love to see him back, but only if he is willing to cede reps to the younger guys and is willing to take a big pay cut.

+1

Would love to see him back here, think he could really help out the young guys.
I hear ya my friend but not in the "Help" area.

You know my traditional reply to that type of comment...."Coaches Coach/Players Play".;)

Besides, if he was gonna help, one would think that Guion would have been a bit more capable than he has over his short tenure.

i_bleed_purple
06-21-2011, 04:10 PM
Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution
(http://)
I actually found it interesting that he took more snaps this year than last.

Again, I love the big guy and would love to see him back, but only if he is willing to cede reps to the younger guys and is willing to take a big pay cut.

+1

Would love to see him back here, think he could really help out the young guys.
I hear ya my friend but not in the "Help" area.

You know my traditional reply to that type of comment...."Coaches Coach/Players Play".;)

Besides, if he was gonna help, one would think that Guion would have been a bit more capable than he has over his short tenure.

turned a 6th round raw rookie into a guy you seem to want to start. Not sure how you can say Pat did or didn't help. You have no basis whatsoever for that comment.

Marrdro
06-21-2011, 04:40 PM
Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution
(http://)
I actually found it interesting that he took more snaps this year than last.

Again, I love the big guy and would love to see him back, but only if he is willing to cede reps to the younger guys and is willing to take a big pay cut.

+1

Would love to see him back here, think he could really help out the young guys.
I hear ya my friend but not in the "Help" area.

You know my traditional reply to that type of comment...."Coaches Coach/Players Play".;)

Besides, if he was gonna help, one would think that Guion would have been a bit more capable than he has over his short tenure.

turned a 6th round raw rookie into a guy you seem to want to start. Not sure how you can say Pat did or didn't help. You have no basis whatsoever for that comment.
Just like you have no basis to say that he did help.

i_bleed_purple
06-21-2011, 04:47 PM
Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution
(http://)
I actually found it interesting that he took more snaps this year than last.

Again, I love the big guy and would love to see him back, but only if he is willing to cede reps to the younger guys and is willing to take a big pay cut.

+1

Would love to see him back here, think he could really help out the young guys.
I hear ya my friend but not in the "Help" area.

You know my traditional reply to that type of comment...."Coaches Coach/Players Play".;)

Besides, if he was gonna help, one would think that Guion would have been a bit more capable than he has over his short tenure.

turned a 6th round raw rookie into a guy you seem to want to start. Not sure how you can say Pat did or didn't help. You have no basis whatsoever for that comment.
Just like you have no basis to say that he did help.

If you look up a couple posts, you might notice that I didn't.

Caine
06-21-2011, 06:44 PM
As a pass rusher, Williams offers practically nothing. In fact, in a study yours truly conducted, Williams generated a quarterback pressure on just 1.16% of the 259 times he rushed the passer; the worst number of all defensive tackles who rushed the passer at least 200 times.

Accepting the idea that hes not a pass rusher, his defensive stops number must be high given how disruptive he is the run game, right? Not quite. In 2010, with 18 defensive stops, Williams finished a mediocre 36th of all defensive tackles.

What Williams offers is far more than anything that shows up on a stat sheet.




A big and powerful defensive tackle, Williams is capable of stacking up linemen, plugging holes, and is surprisingly effective at chasing down runners along the line. The point being that when you try to run at Pat Williams hes still good enough to make that decision look foolish in a variety of ways.

The list of offensive guards and centers this year that were left dealing with this is as extensive as it is impressive.




As youd expect, Williams is getting older and isnt quite playing at his Pro Bowl level of 2009. During that season, he was he was our 2nd ranked defensive tackle in run defense. He dropped to 11th in 2010, although, interestingly, he did play more snaps.

In fact, last year saw Williams increase his amount of regular season snaps by 12.63% on his 2009 total. A significant amount, and one that would help explain why Williams had such a mediocre finish to 2010; only one game tagged with a strongly positive grade in the final six weeks of the season.



Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution
(http://)
I actually found it interesting that he took more snaps this year than last.

Again, I love the big guy and would love to see him back, but only if he is willing to cede reps to the younger guys and is willing to take a big pay cut.

Doubt he'll be willing to do either. Pat has a lot of pride.

I personally think that he is a great assett on the line - he plugs holes and eats linemen (Which allows ray Edwards to have opportunities :whistle: ), but I don't think he can maintain for a full season any more.

He's going to be tough to replace.

Caine
Good points, and I agree on all of them. Problem is, although he can plug up the run, the pocket sure doesn't get collapsed much anymore.

Worst thing the type of defense we run world, no pressure up the middle allowing the QB to simply step up and away from the outside rush.

But that's not Pat failing as much as it is the other 3 not doing their part.

Pat isn't a pass rush guy. He's a run stuffing, O-Line eating, plug in the middle of the field. Sort of the roll Jerry Ball had back in the day. You can't run AT him, but he's not going to get your QB.

The other 3 are supposed to take advantage of Pat being doubled and create opportunities...but they all fell short last season.

Caine

Marrdro
06-22-2011, 04:41 PM
As a pass rusher, Williams offers practically nothing. In fact, in a study yours truly conducted, Williams generated a quarterback pressure on just 1.16% of the 259 times he rushed the passer; the worst number of all defensive tackles who rushed the passer at least 200 times.

Accepting the idea that hes not a pass rusher, his defensive stops number must be high given how disruptive he is the run game, right? Not quite. In 2010, with 18 defensive stops, Williams finished a mediocre 36th of all defensive tackles.

What Williams offers is far more than anything that shows up on a stat sheet.




A big and powerful defensive tackle, Williams is capable of stacking up linemen, plugging holes, and is surprisingly effective at chasing down runners along the line. The point being that when you try to run at Pat Williams hes still good enough to make that decision look foolish in a variety of ways.

The list of offensive guards and centers this year that were left dealing with this is as extensive as it is impressive.




As youd expect, Williams is getting older and isnt quite playing at his Pro Bowl level of 2009. During that season, he was he was our 2nd ranked defensive tackle in run defense. He dropped to 11th in 2010, although, interestingly, he did play more snaps.

In fact, last year saw Williams increase his amount of regular season snaps by 12.63% on his 2009 total. A significant amount, and one that would help explain why Williams had such a mediocre finish to 2010; only one game tagged with a strongly positive grade in the final six weeks of the season.



Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution
(http://)
I actually found it interesting that he took more snaps this year than last.

Again, I love the big guy and would love to see him back, but only if he is willing to cede reps to the younger guys and is willing to take a big pay cut.

Doubt he'll be willing to do either. Pat has a lot of pride.

I personally think that he is a great assett on the line - he plugs holes and eats linemen (Which allows ray Edwards to have opportunities :whistle: ), but I don't think he can maintain for a full season any more.

He's going to be tough to replace.

Caine
Good points, and I agree on all of them. Problem is, although he can plug up the run, the pocket sure doesn't get collapsed much anymore.

Worst thing the type of defense we run world, no pressure up the middle allowing the QB to simply step up and away from the outside rush.

But that's not Pat failing as much as it is the other 3 not doing their part.

Pat isn't a pass rush guy. He's a run stuffing, O-Line eating, plug in the middle of the field. Sort of the roll Jerry Ball had back in the day. You can't run AT him, but he's not going to get your QB.

The other 3 are supposed to take advantage of Pat being doubled and create opportunities...but they all fell short last season.

Caine
Agree, but with one minor discussion point. Phat Pat used to collapse the pocket when he was being doubled.

As the article points out, that part of his game is gone.

i_bleed_purple
06-22-2011, 04:43 PM
As a pass rusher, Williams offers practically nothing. In fact, in a study yours truly conducted, Williams generated a quarterback pressure on just 1.16% of the 259 times he rushed the passer; the worst number of all defensive tackles who rushed the passer at least 200 times.

Accepting the idea that hes not a pass rusher, his defensive stops number must be high given how disruptive he is the run game, right? Not quite. In 2010, with 18 defensive stops, Williams finished a mediocre 36th of all defensive tackles.

What Williams offers is far more than anything that shows up on a stat sheet.




A big and powerful defensive tackle, Williams is capable of stacking up linemen, plugging holes, and is surprisingly effective at chasing down runners along the line. The point being that when you try to run at Pat Williams hes still good enough to make that decision look foolish in a variety of ways.

The list of offensive guards and centers this year that were left dealing with this is as extensive as it is impressive.




As youd expect, Williams is getting older and isnt quite playing at his Pro Bowl level of 2009. During that season, he was he was our 2nd ranked defensive tackle in run defense. He dropped to 11th in 2010, although, interestingly, he did play more snaps.

In fact, last year saw Williams increase his amount of regular season snaps by 12.63% on his 2009 total. A significant amount, and one that would help explain why Williams had such a mediocre finish to 2010; only one game tagged with a strongly positive grade in the final six weeks of the season.



Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution
(http://)
I actually found it interesting that he took more snaps this year than last.

Again, I love the big guy and would love to see him back, but only if he is willing to cede reps to the younger guys and is willing to take a big pay cut.

Doubt he'll be willing to do either. Pat has a lot of pride.

I personally think that he is a great assett on the line - he plugs holes and eats linemen (Which allows ray Edwards to have opportunities :whistle: ), but I don't think he can maintain for a full season any more.

He's going to be tough to replace.

Caine
Good points, and I agree on all of them. Problem is, although he can plug up the run, the pocket sure doesn't get collapsed much anymore.

Worst thing the type of defense we run world, no pressure up the middle allowing the QB to simply step up and away from the outside rush.

But that's not Pat failing as much as it is the other 3 not doing their part.

Pat isn't a pass rush guy. He's a run stuffing, O-Line eating, plug in the middle of the field. Sort of the roll Jerry Ball had back in the day. You can't run AT him, but he's not going to get your QB.

The other 3 are supposed to take advantage of Pat being doubled and create opportunities...but they all fell short last season.

Caine
Agree, but with one minor discussion point. Phat Pat used to collapse the pocket when he was being doubled.

As the article points out, that part of his game is gone.
That part is true.

However, he is still very good at clogging up holes, and has been a HUGE reason for our success defending the run.

Marrdro
06-22-2011, 04:46 PM
As a pass rusher, Williams offers practically nothing. In fact, in a study yours truly conducted, Williams generated a quarterback pressure on just 1.16% of the 259 times he rushed the passer; the worst number of all defensive tackles who rushed the passer at least 200 times.

Accepting the idea that hes not a pass rusher, his defensive stops number must be high given how disruptive he is the run game, right? Not quite. In 2010, with 18 defensive stops, Williams finished a mediocre 36th of all defensive tackles.

What Williams offers is far more than anything that shows up on a stat sheet.




A big and powerful defensive tackle, Williams is capable of stacking up linemen, plugging holes, and is surprisingly effective at chasing down runners along the line. The point being that when you try to run at Pat Williams hes still good enough to make that decision look foolish in a variety of ways.

The list of offensive guards and centers this year that were left dealing with this is as extensive as it is impressive.




As youd expect, Williams is getting older and isnt quite playing at his Pro Bowl level of 2009. During that season, he was he was our 2nd ranked defensive tackle in run defense. He dropped to 11th in 2010, although, interestingly, he did play more snaps.

In fact, last year saw Williams increase his amount of regular season snaps by 12.63% on his 2009 total. A significant amount, and one that would help explain why Williams had such a mediocre finish to 2010; only one game tagged with a strongly positive grade in the final six weeks of the season.



Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution
(http://)
I actually found it interesting that he took more snaps this year than last.

Again, I love the big guy and would love to see him back, but only if he is willing to cede reps to the younger guys and is willing to take a big pay cut.

Doubt he'll be willing to do either. Pat has a lot of pride.

I personally think that he is a great assett on the line - he plugs holes and eats linemen (Which allows ray Edwards to have opportunities :whistle: ), but I don't think he can maintain for a full season any more.

He's going to be tough to replace.

Caine
Good points, and I agree on all of them. Problem is, although he can plug up the run, the pocket sure doesn't get collapsed much anymore.

Worst thing the type of defense we run world, no pressure up the middle allowing the QB to simply step up and away from the outside rush.

But that's not Pat failing as much as it is the other 3 not doing their part.

Pat isn't a pass rush guy. He's a run stuffing, O-Line eating, plug in the middle of the field. Sort of the roll Jerry Ball had back in the day. You can't run AT him, but he's not going to get your QB.

The other 3 are supposed to take advantage of Pat being doubled and create opportunities...but they all fell short last season.

Caine
Agree, but with one minor discussion point. Phat Pat used to collapse the pocket when he was being doubled.

As the article points out, that part of his game is gone.
That part is true.

However, he is still very good at clogging up holes, and has been a HUGE reason for our success defending the run.
He is, but even that is starting to show some decline.

Besides, when he comes in, if the team isn't trying to run to eat up clock, all they do is check out of run and pass on us. Again, he makes us predictable.

As with the TE discussion, anything that makes a team predictable in this day and age is a bad bad bad thing.

i_bleed_purple
06-22-2011, 04:49 PM
As a pass rusher, Williams offers practically nothing. In fact, in a study yours truly conducted, Williams generated a quarterback pressure on just 1.16% of the 259 times he rushed the passer; the worst number of all defensive tackles who rushed the passer at least 200 times.

Accepting the idea that hes not a pass rusher, his defensive stops number must be high given how disruptive he is the run game, right? Not quite. In 2010, with 18 defensive stops, Williams finished a mediocre 36th of all defensive tackles.

What Williams offers is far more than anything that shows up on a stat sheet.




A big and powerful defensive tackle, Williams is capable of stacking up linemen, plugging holes, and is surprisingly effective at chasing down runners along the line. The point being that when you try to run at Pat Williams hes still good enough to make that decision look foolish in a variety of ways.

The list of offensive guards and centers this year that were left dealing with this is as extensive as it is impressive.




As youd expect, Williams is getting older and isnt quite playing at his Pro Bowl level of 2009. During that season, he was he was our 2nd ranked defensive tackle in run defense. He dropped to 11th in 2010, although, interestingly, he did play more snaps.

In fact, last year saw Williams increase his amount of regular season snaps by 12.63% on his 2009 total. A significant amount, and one that would help explain why Williams had such a mediocre finish to 2010; only one game tagged with a strongly positive grade in the final six weeks of the season.



Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution
(http://)
I actually found it interesting that he took more snaps this year than last.

Again, I love the big guy and would love to see him back, but only if he is willing to cede reps to the younger guys and is willing to take a big pay cut.

Doubt he'll be willing to do either. Pat has a lot of pride.

I personally think that he is a great assett on the line - he plugs holes and eats linemen (Which allows ray Edwards to have opportunities :whistle: ), but I don't think he can maintain for a full season any more.

He's going to be tough to replace.

Caine
Good points, and I agree on all of them. Problem is, although he can plug up the run, the pocket sure doesn't get collapsed much anymore.

Worst thing the type of defense we run world, no pressure up the middle allowing the QB to simply step up and away from the outside rush.

But that's not Pat failing as much as it is the other 3 not doing their part.

Pat isn't a pass rush guy. He's a run stuffing, O-Line eating, plug in the middle of the field. Sort of the roll Jerry Ball had back in the day. You can't run AT him, but he's not going to get your QB.

The other 3 are supposed to take advantage of Pat being doubled and create opportunities...but they all fell short last season.

Caine
Agree, but with one minor discussion point. Phat Pat used to collapse the pocket when he was being doubled.

As the article points out, that part of his game is gone.
That part is true.

However, he is still very good at clogging up holes, and has been a HUGE reason for our success defending the run.
He is, but even that is starting to show some decline.

Besides, when he comes in, if the team isn't trying to run to eat up clock, all they do is check out of run and pass on us. Again, he makes us predictable.

As with the TE discussion, anything that makes a team predictable in this day and age is a bad bad bad thing.

Fair enough, however, I'd say Williams is still our best option at the moment, unless there's a good FA available to pick up.

He posesses leadership, skills and experience to share with some younger guys. He's worked with KW for a long time, and the two work pretty well together. If the price is right, we'd be foolish to not bring him back. I'm by no means saying he's an elite player, or even a great player, but he's solid.

Marrdro
06-22-2011, 05:53 PM
As a pass rusher, Williams offers practically nothing. In fact, in a study yours truly conducted, Williams generated a quarterback pressure on just 1.16% of the 259 times he rushed the passer; the worst number of all defensive tackles who rushed the passer at least 200 times.

Accepting the idea that hes not a pass rusher, his defensive stops number must be high given how disruptive he is the run game, right? Not quite. In 2010, with 18 defensive stops, Williams finished a mediocre 36th of all defensive tackles.

What Williams offers is far more than anything that shows up on a stat sheet.




A big and powerful defensive tackle, Williams is capable of stacking up linemen, plugging holes, and is surprisingly effective at chasing down runners along the line. The point being that when you try to run at Pat Williams hes still good enough to make that decision look foolish in a variety of ways.

The list of offensive guards and centers this year that were left dealing with this is as extensive as it is impressive.




As youd expect, Williams is getting older and isnt quite playing at his Pro Bowl level of 2009. During that season, he was he was our 2nd ranked defensive tackle in run defense. He dropped to 11th in 2010, although, interestingly, he did play more snaps.

In fact, last year saw Williams increase his amount of regular season snaps by 12.63% on his 2009 total. A significant amount, and one that would help explain why Williams had such a mediocre finish to 2010; only one game tagged with a strongly positive grade in the final six weeks of the season.



Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution
(http://)
I actually found it interesting that he took more snaps this year than last.

Again, I love the big guy and would love to see him back, but only if he is willing to cede reps to the younger guys and is willing to take a big pay cut.

Doubt he'll be willing to do either. Pat has a lot of pride.

I personally think that he is a great assett on the line - he plugs holes and eats linemen (Which allows ray Edwards to have opportunities :whistle: ), but I don't think he can maintain for a full season any more.

He's going to be tough to replace.

Caine
Good points, and I agree on all of them. Problem is, although he can plug up the run, the pocket sure doesn't get collapsed much anymore.

Worst thing the type of defense we run world, no pressure up the middle allowing the QB to simply step up and away from the outside rush.

But that's not Pat failing as much as it is the other 3 not doing their part.

Pat isn't a pass rush guy. He's a run stuffing, O-Line eating, plug in the middle of the field. Sort of the roll Jerry Ball had back in the day. You can't run AT him, but he's not going to get your QB.

The other 3 are supposed to take advantage of Pat being doubled and create opportunities...but they all fell short last season.

Caine
Agree, but with one minor discussion point. Phat Pat used to collapse the pocket when he was being doubled.

As the article points out, that part of his game is gone.
That part is true.

However, he is still very good at clogging up holes, and has been a HUGE reason for our success defending the run.
He is, but even that is starting to show some decline.

Besides, when he comes in, if the team isn't trying to run to eat up clock, all they do is check out of run and pass on us. Again, he makes us predictable.

As with the TE discussion, anything that makes a team predictable in this day and age is a bad bad bad thing.

Fair enough, however, I'd say Williams is still our best option at the moment, unless there's a good FA available to pick up.

He posesses leadership, skills and experience to share with some younger guys. He's worked with KW for a long time, and the two work pretty well together. If the price is right, we'd be foolish to not bring him back. I'm by no means saying he's an elite player, or even a great player, but he's solid.
Best option for what?

Were is his leadership for off field activities? Sure, he's not under contract but if he was serious about coming back he'd step in. Sure he's worked well with Kevin but at this point I almost am willing to cut bait with K-dubb as well.

Won't play in a 3-4. Tackles are way down. Makes some nice plays, but there are alot better options out there than him right now. Then bring in the "Leadership" aspect. Were is he when it comes to organizing some off the field workouts?

Players I'd put in Phat Pats spot (some even in Kevins)
Haloti Ngata
Paul Soliai
Barry Cofield
Brandon Mebane

Give me a DL like........

JA - Guion - Ngata/Soliai/Cofield - Griff or Ballard

.......and I bet almost everyone would forget real quick about Phat Pat and possibly even K-dubb.

i_bleed_purple
06-22-2011, 06:12 PM
As a pass rusher, Williams offers practically nothing. In fact, in a study yours truly conducted, Williams generated a quarterback pressure on just 1.16% of the 259 times he rushed the passer; the worst number of all defensive tackles who rushed the passer at least 200 times.

Accepting the idea that hes not a pass rusher, his defensive stops number must be high given how disruptive he is the run game, right? Not quite. In 2010, with 18 defensive stops, Williams finished a mediocre 36th of all defensive tackles.

What Williams offers is far more than anything that shows up on a stat sheet.




A big and powerful defensive tackle, Williams is capable of stacking up linemen, plugging holes, and is surprisingly effective at chasing down runners along the line. The point being that when you try to run at Pat Williams hes still good enough to make that decision look foolish in a variety of ways.

The list of offensive guards and centers this year that were left dealing with this is as extensive as it is impressive.




As youd expect, Williams is getting older and isnt quite playing at his Pro Bowl level of 2009. During that season, he was he was our 2nd ranked defensive tackle in run defense. He dropped to 11th in 2010, although, interestingly, he did play more snaps.

In fact, last year saw Williams increase his amount of regular season snaps by 12.63% on his 2009 total. A significant amount, and one that would help explain why Williams had such a mediocre finish to 2010; only one game tagged with a strongly positive grade in the final six weeks of the season.



Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution
(http://)
I actually found it interesting that he took more snaps this year than last.

Again, I love the big guy and would love to see him back, but only if he is willing to cede reps to the younger guys and is willing to take a big pay cut.

Doubt he'll be willing to do either. Pat has a lot of pride.

I personally think that he is a great assett on the line - he plugs holes and eats linemen (Which allows ray Edwards to have opportunities :whistle: ), but I don't think he can maintain for a full season any more.

He's going to be tough to replace.

Caine
Good points, and I agree on all of them. Problem is, although he can plug up the run, the pocket sure doesn't get collapsed much anymore.

Worst thing the type of defense we run world, no pressure up the middle allowing the QB to simply step up and away from the outside rush.

But that's not Pat failing as much as it is the other 3 not doing their part.

Pat isn't a pass rush guy. He's a run stuffing, O-Line eating, plug in the middle of the field. Sort of the roll Jerry Ball had back in the day. You can't run AT him, but he's not going to get your QB.

The other 3 are supposed to take advantage of Pat being doubled and create opportunities...but they all fell short last season.

Caine
Agree, but with one minor discussion point. Phat Pat used to collapse the pocket when he was being doubled.

As the article points out, that part of his game is gone.
That part is true.

However, he is still very good at clogging up holes, and has been a HUGE reason for our success defending the run.
He is, but even that is starting to show some decline.

Besides, when he comes in, if the team isn't trying to run to eat up clock, all they do is check out of run and pass on us. Again, he makes us predictable.

As with the TE discussion, anything that makes a team predictable in this day and age is a bad bad bad thing.

Fair enough, however, I'd say Williams is still our best option at the moment, unless there's a good FA available to pick up.

He posesses leadership, skills and experience to share with some younger guys. He's worked with KW for a long time, and the two work pretty well together. If the price is right, we'd be foolish to not bring him back. I'm by no means saying he's an elite player, or even a great player, but he's solid.
Best option for what?

Were is his leadership for off field activities? Sure, he's not under contract but if he was serious about coming back he'd step in. Sure he's worked well with Kevin but at this point I almost am willing to cut bait with K-dubb as well.

Won't play in a 3-4. Tackles are way down. Makes some nice plays, but there are alot better options out there than him right now. Then bring in the "Leadership" aspect. Were is he when it comes to organizing some off the field workouts?

Players I'd put in Phat Pats spot (some even in Kevins)
Haloti Ngata
Paul Soliai
Barry Cofield
Brandon Mebane

Give me a DL like........

JA - Guion - Ngata/Soliai/Cofield - Griff or Ballard

.......and I bet almost everyone would forget real quick about Phat Pat and possibly even K-dubb.

Lol Ngata over Williams?!

That's like saying I'd rather have Andre Johnson over Bernard Berrian.

Ngata is one of the best linemen in the league in his prime.

Marrdro
06-22-2011, 06:32 PM
As a pass rusher, Williams offers practically nothing. In fact, in a study yours truly conducted, Williams generated a quarterback pressure on just 1.16% of the 259 times he rushed the passer; the worst number of all defensive tackles who rushed the passer at least 200 times.

Accepting the idea that hes not a pass rusher, his defensive stops number must be high given how disruptive he is the run game, right? Not quite. In 2010, with 18 defensive stops, Williams finished a mediocre 36th of all defensive tackles.

What Williams offers is far more than anything that shows up on a stat sheet.




A big and powerful defensive tackle, Williams is capable of stacking up linemen, plugging holes, and is surprisingly effective at chasing down runners along the line. The point being that when you try to run at Pat Williams hes still good enough to make that decision look foolish in a variety of ways.

The list of offensive guards and centers this year that were left dealing with this is as extensive as it is impressive.




As youd expect, Williams is getting older and isnt quite playing at his Pro Bowl level of 2009. During that season, he was he was our 2nd ranked defensive tackle in run defense. He dropped to 11th in 2010, although, interestingly, he did play more snaps.

In fact, last year saw Williams increase his amount of regular season snaps by 12.63% on his 2009 total. A significant amount, and one that would help explain why Williams had such a mediocre finish to 2010; only one game tagged with a strongly positive grade in the final six weeks of the season.



Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution
(http://)
I actually found it interesting that he took more snaps this year than last.

Again, I love the big guy and would love to see him back, but only if he is willing to cede reps to the younger guys and is willing to take a big pay cut.

Doubt he'll be willing to do either. Pat has a lot of pride.

I personally think that he is a great assett on the line - he plugs holes and eats linemen (Which allows ray Edwards to have opportunities :whistle: ), but I don't think he can maintain for a full season any more.

He's going to be tough to replace.

Caine
Good points, and I agree on all of them. Problem is, although he can plug up the run, the pocket sure doesn't get collapsed much anymore.

Worst thing the type of defense we run world, no pressure up the middle allowing the QB to simply step up and away from the outside rush.

But that's not Pat failing as much as it is the other 3 not doing their part.

Pat isn't a pass rush guy. He's a run stuffing, O-Line eating, plug in the middle of the field. Sort of the roll Jerry Ball had back in the day. You can't run AT him, but he's not going to get your QB.

The other 3 are supposed to take advantage of Pat being doubled and create opportunities...but they all fell short last season.

Caine
Agree, but with one minor discussion point. Phat Pat used to collapse the pocket when he was being doubled.

As the article points out, that part of his game is gone.
That part is true.

However, he is still very good at clogging up holes, and has been a HUGE reason for our success defending the run.
He is, but even that is starting to show some decline.

Besides, when he comes in, if the team isn't trying to run to eat up clock, all they do is check out of run and pass on us. Again, he makes us predictable.

As with the TE discussion, anything that makes a team predictable in this day and age is a bad bad bad thing.

Fair enough, however, I'd say Williams is still our best option at the moment, unless there's a good FA available to pick up.

He posesses leadership, skills and experience to share with some younger guys. He's worked with KW for a long time, and the two work pretty well together. If the price is right, we'd be foolish to not bring him back. I'm by no means saying he's an elite player, or even a great player, but he's solid.
Best option for what?

Were is his leadership for off field activities? Sure, he's not under contract but if he was serious about coming back he'd step in. Sure he's worked well with Kevin but at this point I almost am willing to cut bait with K-dubb as well.

Won't play in a 3-4. Tackles are way down. Makes some nice plays, but there are alot better options out there than him right now. Then bring in the "Leadership" aspect. Were is he when it comes to organizing some off the field workouts?

Players I'd put in Phat Pats spot (some even in Kevins)
Haloti Ngata
Paul Soliai
Barry Cofield
Brandon Mebane

Give me a DL like........

JA - Guion - Ngata/Soliai/Cofield - Griff or Ballard

.......and I bet almost everyone would forget real quick about Phat Pat and possibly even K-dubb.

Lol Ngata over Williams?!

That's like saying I'd rather have Andre Johnson over Bernard Berrian.

Ngata is one of the best linemen in the league in his prime.
I think you meant......and still in his prime. All of those cats are still in their prime.

i_bleed_purple
06-22-2011, 06:35 PM
As a pass rusher, Williams offers practically nothing. In fact, in a study yours truly conducted, Williams generated a quarterback pressure on just 1.16% of the 259 times he rushed the passer; the worst number of all defensive tackles who rushed the passer at least 200 times.

Accepting the idea that hes not a pass rusher, his defensive stops number must be high given how disruptive he is the run game, right? Not quite. In 2010, with 18 defensive stops, Williams finished a mediocre 36th of all defensive tackles.

What Williams offers is far more than anything that shows up on a stat sheet.




A big and powerful defensive tackle, Williams is capable of stacking up linemen, plugging holes, and is surprisingly effective at chasing down runners along the line. The point being that when you try to run at Pat Williams hes still good enough to make that decision look foolish in a variety of ways.

The list of offensive guards and centers this year that were left dealing with this is as extensive as it is impressive.




As youd expect, Williams is getting older and isnt quite playing at his Pro Bowl level of 2009. During that season, he was he was our 2nd ranked defensive tackle in run defense. He dropped to 11th in 2010, although, interestingly, he did play more snaps.

In fact, last year saw Williams increase his amount of regular season snaps by 12.63% on his 2009 total. A significant amount, and one that would help explain why Williams had such a mediocre finish to 2010; only one game tagged with a strongly positive grade in the final six weeks of the season.



Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution
(http://)
I actually found it interesting that he took more snaps this year than last.

Again, I love the big guy and would love to see him back, but only if he is willing to cede reps to the younger guys and is willing to take a big pay cut.

Doubt he'll be willing to do either. Pat has a lot of pride.

I personally think that he is a great assett on the line - he plugs holes and eats linemen (Which allows ray Edwards to have opportunities :whistle: ), but I don't think he can maintain for a full season any more.

He's going to be tough to replace.

Caine
Good points, and I agree on all of them. Problem is, although he can plug up the run, the pocket sure doesn't get collapsed much anymore.

Worst thing the type of defense we run world, no pressure up the middle allowing the QB to simply step up and away from the outside rush.

But that's not Pat failing as much as it is the other 3 not doing their part.

Pat isn't a pass rush guy. He's a run stuffing, O-Line eating, plug in the middle of the field. Sort of the roll Jerry Ball had back in the day. You can't run AT him, but he's not going to get your QB.

The other 3 are supposed to take advantage of Pat being doubled and create opportunities...but they all fell short last season.

Caine
Agree, but with one minor discussion point. Phat Pat used to collapse the pocket when he was being doubled.

As the article points out, that part of his game is gone.
That part is true.

However, he is still very good at clogging up holes, and has been a HUGE reason for our success defending the run.
He is, but even that is starting to show some decline.

Besides, when he comes in, if the team isn't trying to run to eat up clock, all they do is check out of run and pass on us. Again, he makes us predictable.

As with the TE discussion, anything that makes a team predictable in this day and age is a bad bad bad thing.

Fair enough, however, I'd say Williams is still our best option at the moment, unless there's a good FA available to pick up.

He posesses leadership, skills and experience to share with some younger guys. He's worked with KW for a long time, and the two work pretty well together. If the price is right, we'd be foolish to not bring him back. I'm by no means saying he's an elite player, or even a great player, but he's solid.
Best option for what?

Were is his leadership for off field activities? Sure, he's not under contract but if he was serious about coming back he'd step in. Sure he's worked well with Kevin but at this point I almost am willing to cut bait with K-dubb as well.

Won't play in a 3-4. Tackles are way down. Makes some nice plays, but there are alot better options out there than him right now. Then bring in the "Leadership" aspect. Were is he when it comes to organizing some off the field workouts?

Players I'd put in Phat Pats spot (some even in Kevins)
Haloti Ngata
Paul Soliai
Barry Cofield
Brandon Mebane

Give me a DL like........

JA - Guion - Ngata/Soliai/Cofield - Griff or Ballard

.......and I bet almost everyone would forget real quick about Phat Pat and possibly even K-dubb.

Lol Ngata over Williams?!

That's like saying I'd rather have Andre Johnson over Bernard Berrian.

Ngata is one of the best linemen in the league in his prime.
I think you meant......and still in his prime. All of those cats are still in their prime.

potato potato.

he's one of the best, and he's in his prime.

better?

jargomcfargo
06-22-2011, 07:06 PM
I don't think Pat will be back.

The Vikes have had one pass rushing and one line stuffing tackle in the past, and it has served them well.

First you must stop the run is a mantra that, though true, isn't as relevent as it once was.

When facing Green Bay, with their version of the WCO, which includes spread offense and empty backfields along with their horizontal passing attack,the Vikings need to find ways to generate more pressure.

One way would be to have two defensive tackles who can hold their own against the run but also apply pressure up the middle.
I think the Vikes are moving away from the 0 technique tackle.

Upgrading the nickel and dime backs could also help, as would having at least one safety with speed who can tackle.

Pugs' new blitz package may also help.

Rodgers has to be pressured in order to beat the Packers. You simply aren't going to match him TD for TD on the offensive side of the ball.

Given all that, I think Pat is done.