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singersp
02-20-2011, 05:36 PM
Vikings would be team hit hardest by lockout


http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/blogs/116427204.html

singersp
02-20-2011, 05:39 PM
Looks like the Favre experiment could end up costing us playoffs in 2011 as well.

Purple Floyd
02-20-2011, 05:42 PM
That is the price the ownership pays for failing to see what was in store for them with that coach and no GM to control the situation. Now they are going at it again without a GM and my only hope is this coach has someone to reign him in if it becomes necessary.

Purple Floyd
02-20-2011, 05:46 PM
Looks like the FavreChildress experiment could end up costing us playoffs in 2011 as well.

I fixed it for you.

Had Brett never been on the team we would be in no different situation now other than we MIGHT still have sage on the team to be a stop gap QB. The real problem was with Childress and he was going to tear the team apart whether we had Brett or not. In reality all Brett probably did is extend the Childress era by a year with the phenomenal season he turned in in 2009. Without him Childress probably didn't get an extension and faced with what he had at QB he might have been out the door after that season.

singersp
02-20-2011, 05:51 PM
Looks like the FavreChildress experiment could end up costing us playoffs in 2011 as well.

I fixed it for you.

Had Brett never been on the team we would be in no different situation now other than we MIGHT still have sage on the team to be a stop gap QB. The real problem was with Childress and he was going to tear the team apart whether we had Brett or not. In reality all Brett probably did is extend the Childress era by a year with the phenomenal season he turned in in 2009. Without him Childress probably didn't get an extension and faced with what he had at QB he might have been out the door after that season.

No you didn't.

Had we not acquired Favre & started TJ or Sage in 2009, we'd have already signed a better QB in 2010 or drafted one in 2009/2010 & been a year or two ahead of the game.

Caine
02-20-2011, 06:20 PM
Looks like the FavreChildress experiment could end up costing us playoffs in 2011 as well.

I fixed it for you.

Had Brett never been on the team we would be in no different situation now other than we MIGHT still have sage on the team to be a stop gap QB. The real problem was with Childress and he was going to tear the team apart whether we had Brett or not. In reality all Brett probably did is extend the Childress era by a year with the phenomenal season he turned in in 2009. Without him Childress probably didn't get an extension and faced with what he had at QB he might have been out the door after that season.

No you didn't.

Had we not acquired Favre & started TJ or Sage in 2009, we'd have already signed a better QB in 2010 or drafted one in 2009/2010 & been a year or two ahead of the game.

As Marrdro is fond of asking when this line of talk arises....

"Who would we have signed"? Or, more telling, "Who would we have drafted"?

Everyone - except Childress it seems - knew Favre was a 1-2 year band-aid on the QB position, but Chiller did NOTHING to address it while he had the opportunity. NOTHING.

And, based upon Chiller track record, he more than likely would have brought in over-the-hill QB's to help train Jackson, and kept Tarvaris in there despite a (likely) series of forgettable games and a flurry of fan backlash...punctuated by a slew of excuses for why it wasn't Jackson's fault, and he just needs "more time" or "a better line" or "different receivers".

No, this was Childress's fault all the way. He spent 5 years NOT addressing the QB issue...Favre didn't alter that.

Caine

singersp
02-20-2011, 10:23 PM
Looks like the FavreChildress experiment could end up costing us playoffs in 2011 as well.

I fixed it for you.

Had Brett never been on the team we would be in no different situation now other than we MIGHT still have sage on the team to be a stop gap QB. The real problem was with Childress and he was going to tear the team apart whether we had Brett or not. In reality all Brett probably did is extend the Childress era by a year with the phenomenal season he turned in in 2009. Without him Childress probably didn't get an extension and faced with what he had at QB he might have been out the door after that season.

No you didn't.

Had we not acquired Favre & started TJ or Sage in 2009, we'd have already signed a better QB in 2010 or drafted one in 2009/2010 & been a year or two ahead of the game.

As Marrdro is fond of asking when this line of talk arises....

"Who would we have signed"? Or, more telling, "Who would we have drafted"?

Everyone - except Childress it seems - knew Favre was a 1-2 year band-aid on the QB position, but Chiller did NOTHING to address it while he had the opportunity. NOTHING.

And, based upon Chiller track record, he more than likely would have brought in over-the-hill QB's to help train Jackson, and kept Tarvaris in there despite a (likely) series of forgettable games and a flurry of fan backlash...punctuated by a slew of excuses for why it wasn't Jackson's fault, and he just needs "more time" or "a better line" or "different receivers".

No, this was Childress's fault all the way. He spent 5 years NOT addressing the QB issue...Favre didn't alter that.

Caine

Favre said "YES!"

vikinggreg
02-20-2011, 10:32 PM
Looks like the FavreChildress experiment could end up costing us playoffs in 2011 as well.

I fixed it for you.

Had Brett never been on the team we would be in no different situation now other than we MIGHT still have sage on the team to be a stop gap QB. The real problem was with Childress and he was going to tear the team apart whether we had Brett or not. In reality all Brett probably did is extend the Childress era by a year with the phenomenal season he turned in in 2009. Without him Childress probably didn't get an extension and faced with what he had at QB he might have been out the door after that season.

No you didn't.

Had we not acquired Favre & started TJ or Sage in 2009, we'd have already signed a better QB in 2010 or drafted one in 2009/2010 & been a year or two ahead of the game.

As Marrdro is fond of asking when this line of talk arises....

"Who would we have signed"? Or, more telling, "Who would we have drafted"?

Everyone - except Childress it seems - knew Favre was a 1-2 year band-aid on the QB position, but Chiller did NOTHING to address it while he had the opportunity. NOTHING.

And, based upon Chiller track record, he more than likely would have brought in over-the-hill QB's to help train Jackson, and kept Tarvaris in there despite a (likely) series of forgettable games and a flurry of fan backlash...punctuated by a slew of excuses for why it wasn't Jackson's fault, and he just needs "more time" or "a better line" or "different receivers".

No, this was Childress's fault all the way. He spent 5 years NOT addressing the QB issue...Favre didn't alter that.

Caine

Favre said "YES!"

http://www.funnymotivationalposters.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Jesus-Facepalm.jpg

singersp
02-20-2011, 10:51 PM
Looks like the FavreChildress experiment could end up costing us playoffs in 2011 as well.

I fixed it for you.

Had Brett never been on the team we would be in no different situation now other than we MIGHT still have sage on the team to be a stop gap QB. The real problem was with Childress and he was going to tear the team apart whether we had Brett or not. In reality all Brett probably did is extend the Childress era by a year with the phenomenal season he turned in in 2009. Without him Childress probably didn't get an extension and faced with what he had at QB he might have been out the door after that season.

No you didn't.

Had we not acquired Favre & started TJ or Sage in 2009, we'd have already signed a better QB in 2010 or drafted one in 2009/2010 & been a year or two ahead of the game.

As Marrdro is fond of asking when this line of talk arises....

"Who would we have signed"? Or, more telling, "Who would we have drafted"?

Everyone - except Childress it seems - knew Favre was a 1-2 year band-aid on the QB position, but Chiller did NOTHING to address it while he had the opportunity. NOTHING.

And, based upon Chiller track record, he more than likely would have brought in over-the-hill QB's to help train Jackson, and kept Tarvaris in there despite a (likely) series of forgettable games and a flurry of fan backlash...punctuated by a slew of excuses for why it wasn't Jackson's fault, and he just needs "more time" or "a better line" or "different receivers".

No, this was Childress's fault all the way. He spent 5 years NOT addressing the QB issue...Favre didn't alter that.

Caine

Favre said "YES!"

http://www.funnymotivationalposters.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Jesus-Facepalm.jpg

You can't see sarcasm without it being pointed out to you?

**rolls eyes**

Purple Floyd
02-21-2011, 12:09 AM
Looks like the FavreChildress experiment could end up costing us playoffs in 2011 as well.

I fixed it for you.

Had Brett never been on the team we would be in no different situation now other than we MIGHT still have sage on the team to be a stop gap QB. The real problem was with Childress and he was going to tear the team apart whether we had Brett or not. In reality all Brett probably did is extend the Childress era by a year with the phenomenal season he turned in in 2009. Without him Childress probably didn't get an extension and faced with what he had at QB he might have been out the door after that season.

No you didn't.

Had we not acquired Favre & started TJ or Sage in 2009, we'd have already signed a better QB in 2010 or drafted one in 2009/2010 & been a year or two ahead of the game.

What makes you think that? There really wasn't anyone to sign and Childress certainly didn't put a priority on signing any quality QB's in the draft so I really have to wonder how you could have gotten to that conclusion.

The only way we would have been a year or two ahead at this time is if Childress had been fired a year or two earlier.

vikinggreg
02-21-2011, 01:40 AM
Looks like the FavreChildress experiment could end up costing us playoffs in 2011 as well.

I fixed it for you.

Had Brett never been on the team we would be in no different situation now other than we MIGHT still have sage on the team to be a stop gap QB. The real problem was with Childress and he was going to tear the team apart whether we had Brett or not. In reality all Brett probably did is extend the Childress era by a year with the phenomenal season he turned in in 2009. Without him Childress probably didn't get an extension and faced with what he had at QB he might have been out the door after that season.

No you didn't.

Had we not acquired Favre & started TJ or Sage in 2009, we'd have already signed a better QB in 2010 or drafted one in 2009/2010 & been a year or two ahead of the game.

As Marrdro is fond of asking when this line of talk arises....

"Who would we have signed"? Or, more telling, "Who would we have drafted"?

Everyone - except Childress it seems - knew Favre was a 1-2 year band-aid on the QB position, but Chiller did NOTHING to address it while he had the opportunity. NOTHING.

And, based upon Chiller track record, he more than likely would have brought in over-the-hill QB's to help train Jackson, and kept Tarvaris in there despite a (likely) series of forgettable games and a flurry of fan backlash...punctuated by a slew of excuses for why it wasn't Jackson's fault, and he just needs "more time" or "a better line" or "different receivers".

No, this was Childress's fault all the way. He spent 5 years NOT addressing the QB issue...Favre didn't alter that.

Caine

Favre said "YES!"

http://www.funnymotivationalposters.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Jesus-Facepalm.jpg

You can't see sarcasm without it being pointed out to you?

**rolls eyes**

I confused it with your usual Favre cynicism and posted a counter scarastic image......with was missed so I'll use this card

http://pancake-alert.net/sarcasm.jpg

singersp
02-22-2011, 12:15 PM
Looks like the FavreChildress experiment could end up costing us playoffs in 2011 as well.

I fixed it for you.

Had Brett never been on the team we would be in no different situation now other than we MIGHT still have sage on the team to be a stop gap QB. The real problem was with Childress and he was going to tear the team apart whether we had Brett or not. In reality all Brett probably did is extend the Childress era by a year with the phenomenal season he turned in in 2009. Without him Childress probably didn't get an extension and faced with what he had at QB he might have been out the door after that season.

No you didn't.

Had we not acquired Favre & started TJ or Sage in 2009, we'd have already signed a better QB in 2010 or drafted one in 2009/2010 & been a year or two ahead of the game.

As Marrdro is fond of asking when this line of talk arises....

"Who would we have signed"? Or, more telling, "Who would we have drafted"?

Everyone - except Childress it seems - knew Favre was a 1-2 year band-aid on the QB position, but Chiller did NOTHING to address it while he had the opportunity. NOTHING.

And, based upon Chiller track record, he more than likely would have brought in over-the-hill QB's to help train Jackson, and kept Tarvaris in there despite a (likely) series of forgettable games and a flurry of fan backlash...punctuated by a slew of excuses for why it wasn't Jackson's fault, and he just needs "more time" or "a better line" or "different receivers".

No, this was Childress's fault all the way. He spent 5 years NOT addressing the QB issue...Favre didn't alter that.

Caine

Favre said "YES!"

http://www.funnymotivationalposters.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Jesus-Facepalm.jpg

You can't see sarcasm without it being pointed out to you?

**rolls eyes**

I confused it with your usual Favre cynicism and posted a counter scarastic image......with was missed so I'll use this card

http://pancake-alert.net/sarcasm.jpg

Then you were totally confused.

The "Favre expirement" wasn't the brainchild of Favre, but rather from within the Vikings organization. Some choose to blame Childress for it. I tend to believe that Bevell & Wilf, along with Childress, all played a big part in bringing here.

Your still to defensive about Favre. It seems any mention of Favre's time here in any negative light, brings out the Chris Crocker in you.

singersp
02-22-2011, 12:29 PM
Looks like the FavreChildress experiment could end up costing us playoffs in 2011 as well.

I fixed it for you.

Had Brett never been on the team we would be in no different situation now other than we MIGHT still have sage on the team to be a stop gap QB. The real problem was with Childress and he was going to tear the team apart whether we had Brett or not. In reality all Brett probably did is extend the Childress era by a year with the phenomenal season he turned in in 2009. Without him Childress probably didn't get an extension and faced with what he had at QB he might have been out the door after that season.

No you didn't.

Had we not acquired Favre & started TJ or Sage in 2009, we'd have already signed a better QB in 2010 or drafted one in 2009/2010 & been a year or two ahead of the game.

What makes you think that? There really wasn't anyone to sign and Childress certainly didn't put a priority on signing any quality QB's in the draft so I really have to wonder how you could have gotten to that conclusion.

The only way we would have been a year or two ahead at this time is if Childress had been fired a year or two earlier.

What makes me think that is had they stuck with TJ & Sage, they would have started TJ in 2009. He won the spot. (They should have continued to play him in 2008, IMO)It should have been shown by seasons end, that the Vikings needed to look elsewhere for a franchise QB. That would have forced them to look at acquiring one earlier in the 2010 draft than a late round Webb. Had they continued to play TJ in 2008, rather than sitting him after only just two games, they might have found out by the end of that season allowing them to look in the 2009 draft.

As it went, they sat him the bulk of 2008 & all of 2009 still with that "not knowing" if he would eventually come around or not.

singersp
02-22-2011, 12:46 PM
Looks like the FavreChildress experiment could end up costing us playoffs in 2011 as well.

I fixed it for you.

Had Brett never been on the team we would be in no different situation now other than we MIGHT still have sage on the team to be a stop gap QB. The real problem was with Childress and he was going to tear the team apart whether we had Brett or not. In reality all Brett probably did is extend the Childress era by a year with the phenomenal season he turned in in 2009. Without him Childress probably didn't get an extension and faced with what he had at QB he might have been out the door after that season.

No you didn't.

Had we not acquired Favre & started TJ or Sage in 2009, we'd have already signed a better QB in 2010 or drafted one in 2009/2010 & been a year or two ahead of the game.

As Marrdro is fond of asking when this line of talk arises....

"Who would we have signed"? Or, more telling, "Who would we have drafted"?

Everyone - except Childress it seems - knew Favre was a 1-2 year band-aid on the QB position, but Chiller did NOTHING to address it while he had the opportunity. NOTHING.

And, based upon Chiller track record, he more than likely would have brought in over-the-hill QB's to help train Jackson, and kept Tarvaris in there despite a (likely) series of forgettable games and a flurry of fan backlash...punctuated by a slew of excuses for why it wasn't Jackson's fault, and he just needs "more time" or "a better line" or "different receivers".

No, this was Childress's fault all the way. He spent 5 years NOT addressing the QB issue...Favre didn't alter that.

Caine


Favre wasn't brought in here as a 1-2 year band-aid, nor was he brought in here to teach Jackson. His years in GB & by his own admission already proved Favre does not teach/mentor QB's.

They brought Favre in because they saw a window of opportunity to win a SB with the talent they had, led by Favre, rather than trying to progress TJ along. The QB progressing was put "on hold" for a year & then two in pursuit of the Lombardi trophy

Had it merely been a band-aid they were looking for, Sage would have sufficed in that role had TJ floundered or not proven better than Sage.

Caine
02-22-2011, 10:59 PM
Looks like the FavreChildress experiment could end up costing us playoffs in 2011 as well.

I fixed it for you.

Had Brett never been on the team we would be in no different situation now other than we MIGHT still have sage on the team to be a stop gap QB. The real problem was with Childress and he was going to tear the team apart whether we had Brett or not. In reality all Brett probably did is extend the Childress era by a year with the phenomenal season he turned in in 2009. Without him Childress probably didn't get an extension and faced with what he had at QB he might have been out the door after that season.

No you didn't.

Had we not acquired Favre & started TJ or Sage in 2009, we'd have already signed a better QB in 2010 or drafted one in 2009/2010 & been a year or two ahead of the game.

As Marrdro is fond of asking when this line of talk arises....

"Who would we have signed"? Or, more telling, "Who would we have drafted"?

Everyone - except Childress it seems - knew Favre was a 1-2 year band-aid on the QB position, but Chiller did NOTHING to address it while he had the opportunity. NOTHING.

And, based upon Chiller track record, he more than likely would have brought in over-the-hill QB's to help train Jackson, and kept Tarvaris in there despite a (likely) series of forgettable games and a flurry of fan backlash...punctuated by a slew of excuses for why it wasn't Jackson's fault, and he just needs "more time" or "a better line" or "different receivers".

No, this was Childress's fault all the way. He spent 5 years NOT addressing the QB issue...Favre didn't alter that.

Caine


Favre wasn't brought in here as a 1-2 year band-aid, nor was he brought in here to teach Jackson. His years in GB & by his own admission already proved Favre does not teach/mentor QB's.

They brought Favre in because they saw a window of opportunity to win a SB with the talent they had, led by Favre, rather than trying to progress TJ along. The QB progressing was put "on hold" for a year & then two in pursuit of the Lombardi trophy

Had it merely been a band-aid they were looking for, Sage would have sufficed in that role had TJ floundered or not proven better than Sage.

Favre wasn't a 1-2 year band-aid? Really? They planned to franchise him then?

Despite the desire to win a Superbowl - and, I'd like to add that that is the goal of EVERY acquisition, not just Favre - Childress, and everyone else, knew that Favre was a 1-2 year acquisition. That gave Childress 1-2 years to either get Jackson ready, or find someone better.

He did neither.

You, and a handful of others, like to make a stink about Favre not "mentoring" Jackson...despite me never having read a single word of complaint from any Viking QB in that regard. But I would like top point out that mentoring Jackson wasn't Favre's job.

How much mentoring do you think Matt Leinart got from Kurt Warner? The irony here is that Warner was brought in TO DO JUST THAT!!! Then he took away the starting job. But no one talks about him being a great mentor.

So why keep flogging that horse?

Favre wasn't brought in here to make Jackson better. He also didn't have any responsibility to make Aaron Rodgers better. THAT'S WHAT COACHES ARE FOR. Favre's job was to win games...and in 2009, he did.

But, through all of this, Childress had to have seen how thin he was at QB. Hell, he had to reach into RETIREMENT to pull out a QB for his team!!!

Yet he did nothing beyond that. (No, I don't count Joe Webb as a legitimate effort, since he was drafted as a WR!!!).

So, yes, I blame Childress for this. It was his JOB to know what his team needed...and he blew it. Which is why he no longer has that job.

Caine

vikinggreg
02-23-2011, 02:33 AM
Looks like the FavreChildress experiment could end up costing us playoffs in 2011 as well.

I fixed it for you.

Had Brett never been on the team we would be in no different situation now other than we MIGHT still have sage on the team to be a stop gap QB. The real problem was with Childress and he was going to tear the team apart whether we had Brett or not. In reality all Brett probably did is extend the Childress era by a year with the phenomenal season he turned in in 2009. Without him Childress probably didn't get an extension and faced with what he had at QB he might have been out the door after that season.

No you didn't.

Had we not acquired Favre & started TJ or Sage in 2009, we'd have already signed a better QB in 2010 or drafted one in 2009/2010 & been a year or two ahead of the game.

As Marrdro is fond of asking when this line of talk arises....

"Who would we have signed"? Or, more telling, "Who would we have drafted"?

Everyone - except Childress it seems - knew Favre was a 1-2 year band-aid on the QB position, but Chiller did NOTHING to address it while he had the opportunity. NOTHING.

And, based upon Chiller track record, he more than likely would have brought in over-the-hill QB's to help train Jackson, and kept Tarvaris in there despite a (likely) series of forgettable games and a flurry of fan backlash...punctuated by a slew of excuses for why it wasn't Jackson's fault, and he just needs "more time" or "a better line" or "different receivers".

No, this was Childress's fault all the way. He spent 5 years NOT addressing the QB issue...Favre didn't alter that.

Caine

Favre said "YES!"

http://www.funnymotivationalposters.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Jesus-Facepalm.jpg

You can't see sarcasm without it being pointed out to you?

**rolls eyes**

I confused it with your usual Favre cynicism and posted a counter scarastic image......with was missed so I'll use this card

http://pancake-alert.net/sarcasm.jpg

Then you were totally confused.

The "Favre expirement" wasn't the brainchild of Favre, but rather from within the Vikings organization. Some choose to blame Childress for it. I tend to believe that Bevell & Wilf, along with Childress, all played a big part in bringing here.

Your still to defensive about Favre. It seems any mention of Favre's time here in any negative light, brings out the Chris Crocker in you.

Well from what I recall there was some texting going on from Favre's Packer cellphone (possible sausage photos).......and Favre telling the Jets if he was release he would only consider going to the Vikings and as far is Bevell....I don't think Choldress ever really listened to him.

After I googled Chris Crocker and had a lol, I saw this post re TJ and would have to say nice try Mr Pot :P


What reports? I haven't seen or heard of any. Links?

And why is this is General NFL? Is it because of his FA status? If that's the case, then all articles/threads regarding Rice, Greenway, Leber, Edwards, Robison, etc should be funneled in to the general NFL as well.

Marrdro
02-24-2011, 04:54 PM
Looks like the FavreChildress experiment could end up costing us playoffs in 2011 as well.

I fixed it for you.

Had Brett never been on the team we would be in no different situation now other than we MIGHT still have sage on the team to be a stop gap QB. The real problem was with Childress and he was going to tear the team apart whether we had Brett or not. In reality all Brett probably did is extend the Childress era by a year with the phenomenal season he turned in in 2009. Without him Childress probably didn't get an extension and faced with what he had at QB he might have been out the door after that season.

No you didn't.

Had we not acquired Favre & started TJ or Sage in 2009, we'd have already signed a better QB in 2010 or drafted one in 2009/2010 & been a year or two ahead of the game.

As Marrdro is fond of asking when this line of talk arises....

"Who would we have signed"? Or, more telling, "Who would we have drafted"?

Everyone - except Childress it seems - knew Favre was a 1-2 year band-aid on the QB position, but Chiller did NOTHING to address it while he had the opportunity. NOTHING.

And, based upon Chiller track record, he more than likely would have brought in over-the-hill QB's to help train Jackson, and kept Tarvaris in there despite a (likely) series of forgettable games and a flurry of fan backlash...punctuated by a slew of excuses for why it wasn't Jackson's fault, and he just needs "more time" or "a better line" or "different receivers".

No, this was Childress's fault all the way. He spent 5 years NOT addressing the QB issue...Favre didn't alter that.

Caine
Your finally catching on.........snicker......

Only problem is, your still blaming the Chiller cause he didn't go out and find a jewel amongst a bunch of crap.

The same issue is gonna filter over for Leslie I fear. No young QB's will be available in this draft that have any hopes of coming in and not sucking for atleast 2 to 3 years.

No viable options in the FA market.

As I said in another thread, the best option in the FA market right now is TJ. The staff probably won't do that cause of the upheaval yutz fans will have.

Sage is not, nor was he ever an option other than in Spielmans mind. Heck, the only reason he is still in the league is because of Spielman, well that, and the other fact that there just aren't any good QB's running around available.

I think the best way to say it, and really be accurate is....

He spent 5 years without any option to fix the QB issue because there were no options out there......

Marrdro
02-24-2011, 04:58 PM
What makes you think that? There really wasn't anyone to sign and Childress certainly didn't put a priority on signing any quality QB's in the draft so I really have to wonder how you could have gotten to that conclusion.

The only way we would have been a year or two ahead at this time is if Childress had been fired a year or two earlier.
Still wouldn't have alleviated or eliminated the fact that who ever took over for the Chiller would still have to pick from the same dregs at QB that the staff picked from.

Unless of course you are aware of any Vet QB's that we passed in FA on or rookie QB's that we passed on in the draft that are now lighting it up in the league.

Aside from Warner (who most on here would have shit a brick on if we would have signed in 2006) and Bree's, who again, would have shit a brick on, there have been no other options for us to solve the QB position.

Caine
02-25-2011, 03:32 PM
Looks like the FavreChildress experiment could end up costing us playoffs in 2011 as well.

I fixed it for you.

Had Brett never been on the team we would be in no different situation now other than we MIGHT still have sage on the team to be a stop gap QB. The real problem was with Childress and he was going to tear the team apart whether we had Brett or not. In reality all Brett probably did is extend the Childress era by a year with the phenomenal season he turned in in 2009. Without him Childress probably didn't get an extension and faced with what he had at QB he might have been out the door after that season.

No you didn't.

Had we not acquired Favre & started TJ or Sage in 2009, we'd have already signed a better QB in 2010 or drafted one in 2009/2010 & been a year or two ahead of the game.

As Marrdro is fond of asking when this line of talk arises....

"Who would we have signed"? Or, more telling, "Who would we have drafted"?

Everyone - except Childress it seems - knew Favre was a 1-2 year band-aid on the QB position, but Chiller did NOTHING to address it while he had the opportunity. NOTHING.

And, based upon Chiller track record, he more than likely would have brought in over-the-hill QB's to help train Jackson, and kept Tarvaris in there despite a (likely) series of forgettable games and a flurry of fan backlash...punctuated by a slew of excuses for why it wasn't Jackson's fault, and he just needs "more time" or "a better line" or "different receivers".

No, this was Childress's fault all the way. He spent 5 years NOT addressing the QB issue...Favre didn't alter that.

Caine
Your finally catching on.........snicker......

Only problem is, your still blaming the Chiller cause he didn't go out and find a jewel amongst a bunch of crap.

The same issue is gonna filter over for Leslie I fear. No young QB's will be available in this draft that have any hopes of coming in and not sucking for atleast 2 to 3 years.

No viable options in the FA market.

As I said in another thread, the best option in the FA market right now is TJ. The staff probably won't do that cause of the upheaval yutz fans will have.

Sage is not, nor was he ever an option other than in Spielmans mind. Heck, the only reason he is still in the league is because of Spielman, well that, and the other fact that there just aren't any good QB's running around available.

I think the best way to say it, and really be accurate is....

He spent 5 years without any option to fix the QB issue because there were no options out there......

Let's be completely honest here...no one really KNOWS who will pan out and who won't. Not until you see them play a few times.

For example, while I argued AGAINST starting Jackson in '07, I didn't KNOW he would fail...not until '08.

The same holds true in reverse - who KNEW Aaron Rodgers would be a star? 23 teams DIDN'T...or they would have drafted him. Green Bay needed a QB, Rodgers fell to them, and they got a great pick.

The POINT is that you have to TRY. Chiller didn't. He didn't bring guys in, he didn't offer options, and he flat out PASSED on the 2-3 hindsight viable options that we all AGREED then AND NOW that he should have looked at.

He stuck with Jackson.

He kept telling us how much Jackson had improved.

He kept telling us Jackson was ready.

And Jackson kept on sucking.

So, yes, I blame Chiller. Not for FAILING, but for not TRYING.

When you enter a season with 3 QB's on your roster - 1 a 6th round Wide receiver pick rookie, 1 a retirement bound band-aid, and 1 a 5 year failed project in the final year of his contract, that is NOT planning ahead.

Chiller fell in love with Jackson - hitched his wagon to Jackson - staked his professional reputation on Jackson - then couldn't deliver with Jackson. A more objective man would have recognized the need to seek an alternate QB...Chiller was too proud/foolish to do so.

And, as a final note, YOU keep saying how Jackson might blossom under the tutelage of a new franchise. That argument cuts both ways. I would submit that the same might be true for any of the QB prospects we DIDN'T look at had they come here.

Caine

Marrdro
02-28-2011, 02:06 PM
Looks like the FavreChildress experiment could end up costing us playoffs in 2011 as well.

I fixed it for you.

Had Brett never been on the team we would be in no different situation now other than we MIGHT still have sage on the team to be a stop gap QB. The real problem was with Childress and he was going to tear the team apart whether we had Brett or not. In reality all Brett probably did is extend the Childress era by a year with the phenomenal season he turned in in 2009. Without him Childress probably didn't get an extension and faced with what he had at QB he might have been out the door after that season.

No you didn't.

Had we not acquired Favre & started TJ or Sage in 2009, we'd have already signed a better QB in 2010 or drafted one in 2009/2010 & been a year or two ahead of the game.

As Marrdro is fond of asking when this line of talk arises....

"Who would we have signed"? Or, more telling, "Who would we have drafted"?

Everyone - except Childress it seems - knew Favre was a 1-2 year band-aid on the QB position, but Chiller did NOTHING to address it while he had the opportunity. NOTHING.

And, based upon Chiller track record, he more than likely would have brought in over-the-hill QB's to help train Jackson, and kept Tarvaris in there despite a (likely) series of forgettable games and a flurry of fan backlash...punctuated by a slew of excuses for why it wasn't Jackson's fault, and he just needs "more time" or "a better line" or "different receivers".

No, this was Childress's fault all the way. He spent 5 years NOT addressing the QB issue...Favre didn't alter that.

Caine
Your finally catching on.........snicker......

Only problem is, your still blaming the Chiller cause he didn't go out and find a jewel amongst a bunch of crap.

The same issue is gonna filter over for Leslie I fear. No young QB's will be available in this draft that have any hopes of coming in and not sucking for atleast 2 to 3 years.

No viable options in the FA market.

As I said in another thread, the best option in the FA market right now is TJ. The staff probably won't do that cause of the upheaval yutz fans will have.

Sage is not, nor was he ever an option other than in Spielmans mind. Heck, the only reason he is still in the league is because of Spielman, well that, and the other fact that there just aren't any good QB's running around available.

I think the best way to say it, and really be accurate is....

He spent 5 years without any option to fix the QB issue because there were no options out there......

Let's be completely honest here...no one really KNOWS who will pan out and who won't. Not until you see them play a few times.

For example, while I argued AGAINST starting Jackson in '07, I didn't KNOW he would fail...not until '08.

The same holds true in reverse - who KNEW Aaron Rodgers would be a star? 23 teams DIDN'T...or they would have drafted him. Green Bay needed a QB, Rodgers fell to them, and they got a great pick.

The POINT is that you have to TRY. Chiller didn't. He didn't bring guys in, he didn't offer options, and he flat out PASSED on the 2-3 hindsight viable options that we all AGREED then AND NOW that he should have looked at.

He stuck with Jackson.

He kept telling us how much Jackson had improved.

He kept telling us Jackson was ready.

And Jackson kept on sucking.

So, yes, I blame Chiller. Not for FAILING, but for not TRYING.

When you enter a season with 3 QB's on your roster - 1 a 6th round Wide receiver pick rookie, 1 a retirement bound band-aid, and 1 a 5 year failed project in the final year of his contract, that is NOT planning ahead.

Chiller fell in love with Jackson - hitched his wagon to Jackson - staked his professional reputation on Jackson - then couldn't deliver with Jackson. A more objective man would have recognized the need to seek an alternate QB...Chiller was too proud/foolish to do so.

And, as a final note, YOU keep saying how Jackson might blossom under the tutelage of a new franchise. That argument cuts both ways. I would submit that the same might be true for any of the QB prospects we DIDN'T look at had they come here.

Caine
He didn't try? WHAT....First, that statement is totally wrong. Mostly cause the Chiller wasn't the only one working the issue. It was the whole fricken staff my friend.

Unless of course you still believe that the HC runs around doing everything when it comes to player personnnel moves.

Second, They did try, problem is, the ones they brought in, never worked out. Heck, truth of the matter is, and you won't admit it, that TJ worked out to be the best one they brought in.

Drafted Four
2 Tarvaris Jackson Alabama State
7 Tyler Thigpen Coastal Carolina
5 John Booty USC
6 Joe Webb UAB

Traded for or aquired via FA
Rosenfell
Bollinger
Holcomb
Noodle

Not sure, however, I think there are atleast 4 other "Camp Arms" that have been brought in for a look.

I think you need a grip on reality my friend. If nothing else, the Vikings have been one of the most "Active" teams in the QB search.

Didn't try anything my ass. You make me snicker my friend. :laugh:

Purple Floyd
02-28-2011, 03:01 PM
What makes you think that? There really wasn't anyone to sign and Childress certainly didn't put a priority on signing any quality QB's in the draft so I really have to wonder how you could have gotten to that conclusion.

The only way we would have been a year or two ahead at this time is if Childress had been fired a year or two earlier.
Still wouldn't have alleviated or eliminated the fact that who ever took over for the Chiller would still have to pick from the same dregs at QB that the staff picked from.

Unless of course you are aware of any Vet QB's that we passed in FA on or rookie QB's that we passed on in the draft that are now lighting it up in the league.

Aside from Warner (who most on here would have shit a brick on if we would have signed in 2006) and Bree's, who again, would have shit a brick on, there have been no other options for us to solve the QB position.

I suppose we could have signed Vick. After all he was in the pro bowl last year. We could have traded for McNabb, who I like less than Brett but he played in the same system as us so possibly he would have played better than he did in Washington.

We could have picked McCoy or Clausen in the draft. Both of them were starting last year and depending on how the draft goes they both very well might be starting this year.


What exactly was the shit a brick comment on Brees about anyway?

Purple Floyd
02-28-2011, 03:03 PM
Looks like the FavreChildress experiment could end up costing us playoffs in 2011 as well.

I fixed it for you.

Had Brett never been on the team we would be in no different situation now other than we MIGHT still have sage on the team to be a stop gap QB. The real problem was with Childress and he was going to tear the team apart whether we had Brett or not. In reality all Brett probably did is extend the Childress era by a year with the phenomenal season he turned in in 2009. Without him Childress probably didn't get an extension and faced with what he had at QB he might have been out the door after that season.

No you didn't.

Had we not acquired Favre & started TJ or Sage in 2009, we'd have already signed a better QB in 2010 or drafted one in 2009/2010 & been a year or two ahead of the game.

As Marrdro is fond of asking when this line of talk arises....

"Who would we have signed"? Or, more telling, "Who would we have drafted"?

Everyone - except Childress it seems - knew Favre was a 1-2 year band-aid on the QB position, but Chiller did NOTHING to address it while he had the opportunity. NOTHING.

And, based upon Chiller track record, he more than likely would have brought in over-the-hill QB's to help train Jackson, and kept Tarvaris in there despite a (likely) series of forgettable games and a flurry of fan backlash...punctuated by a slew of excuses for why it wasn't Jackson's fault, and he just needs "more time" or "a better line" or "different receivers".

No, this was Childress's fault all the way. He spent 5 years NOT addressing the QB issue...Favre didn't alter that.

Caine
Your finally catching on.........snicker......

Only problem is, your still blaming the Chiller cause he didn't go out and find a jewel amongst a bunch of crap.

The same issue is gonna filter over for Leslie I fear. No young QB's will be available in this draft that have any hopes of coming in and not sucking for atleast 2 to 3 years.

No viable options in the FA market.

As I said in another thread, the best option in the FA market right now is TJ. The staff probably won't do that cause of the upheaval yutz fans will have.

Sage is not, nor was he ever an option other than in Spielmans mind. Heck, the only reason he is still in the league is because of Spielman, well that, and the other fact that there just aren't any good QB's running around available.

I think the best way to say it, and really be accurate is....

He spent 5 years without any option to fix the QB issue because there were no options out there......

Let's be completely honest here...no one really KNOWS who will pan out and who won't. Not until you see them play a few times.

For example, while I argued AGAINST starting Jackson in '07, I didn't KNOW he would fail...not until '08.

The same holds true in reverse - who KNEW Aaron Rodgers would be a star? 23 teams DIDN'T...or they would have drafted him. Green Bay needed a QB, Rodgers fell to them, and they got a great pick.

The POINT is that you have to TRY. Chiller didn't. He didn't bring guys in, he didn't offer options, and he flat out PASSED on the 2-3 hindsight viable options that we all AGREED then AND NOW that he should have looked at.

He stuck with Jackson.

He kept telling us how much Jackson had improved.

He kept telling us Jackson was ready.

And Jackson kept on sucking.

So, yes, I blame Chiller. Not for FAILING, but for not TRYING.

When you enter a season with 3 QB's on your roster - 1 a 6th round Wide receiver pick rookie, 1 a retirement bound band-aid, and 1 a 5 year failed project in the final year of his contract, that is NOT planning ahead.

Chiller fell in love with Jackson - hitched his wagon to Jackson - staked his professional reputation on Jackson - then couldn't deliver with Jackson. A more objective man would have recognized the need to seek an alternate QB...Chiller was too proud/foolish to do so.

And, as a final note, YOU keep saying how Jackson might blossom under the tutelage of a new franchise. That argument cuts both ways. I would submit that the same might be true for any of the QB prospects we DIDN'T look at had they come here.

Caine
He didn't try? WHAT....First, that statement is totally wrong. Mostly cause the Chiller wasn't the only one working the issue. It was the whole fricken staff my friend.

Unless of course you still believe that the HC runs around doing everything when it comes to player personnnel moves.

Second, They did try, problem is, the ones they brought in, never worked out. Heck, truth of the matter is, and you won't admit it, that TJ worked out to be the best one they brought in.

Drafted Four
2 Tarvaris Jackson Alabama State
7 Tyler Thigpen Coastal Carolina
5 John Booty USC
6 Joe Webb UAB

Traded for or aquired via FA
Rosenfell
Bollinger
Holcomb
Noodle

Not sure, however, I think there are atleast 4 other "Camp Arms" that have been brought in for a look.

I think you need a grip on reality my friend. If nothing else, the Vikings have been one of the most "Active" teams in the QB search.

Didn't try anything my ass. You make me snicker my friend. :laugh:

If you call that trying their best effort then it is a good thing Childress is gone before he tried the whole team into the ground.

Caine
02-28-2011, 05:31 PM
Let's be completely honest here...no one really KNOWS who will pan out and who won't. Not until you see them play a few times.

For example, while I argued AGAINST starting Jackson in '07, I didn't KNOW he would fail...not until '08.

The same holds true in reverse - who KNEW Aaron Rodgers would be a star? 23 teams DIDN'T...or they would have drafted him. Green Bay needed a QB, Rodgers fell to them, and they got a great pick.

The POINT is that you have to TRY. Chiller didn't. He didn't bring guys in, he didn't offer options, and he flat out PASSED on the 2-3 hindsight viable options that we all AGREED then AND NOW that he should have looked at.

He stuck with Jackson.

He kept telling us how much Jackson had improved.

He kept telling us Jackson was ready.

And Jackson kept on sucking.

So, yes, I blame Chiller. Not for FAILING, but for not TRYING.

When you enter a season with 3 QB's on your roster - 1 a 6th round Wide receiver pick rookie, 1 a retirement bound band-aid, and 1 a 5 year failed project in the final year of his contract, that is NOT planning ahead.

Chiller fell in love with Jackson - hitched his wagon to Jackson - staked his professional reputation on Jackson - then couldn't deliver with Jackson. A more objective man would have recognized the need to seek an alternate QB...Chiller was too proud/foolish to do so.

And, as a final note, YOU keep saying how Jackson might blossom under the tutelage of a new franchise. That argument cuts both ways. I would submit that the same might be true for any of the QB prospects we DIDN'T look at had they come here.

Caine
He didn't try? WHAT....First, that statement is totally wrong. Mostly cause the Chiller wasn't the only one working the issue. It was the whole fricken staff my friend.

Unless of course you still believe that the HC runs around doing everything when it comes to player personnnel moves.

Second, They did try, problem is, the ones they brought in, never worked out. Heck, truth of the matter is, and you won't admit it, that TJ worked out to be the best one they brought in.

Drafted Four
2 Tarvaris Jackson Alabama State
7 Tyler Thigpen Coastal Carolina
5 John Booty USC
6 Joe Webb UAB

Traded for or aquired via FA
Rosenfell
Bollinger
Holcomb
Noodle

Not sure, however, I think there are atleast 4 other "Camp Arms" that have been brought in for a look.

I think you need a grip on reality my friend. If nothing else, the Vikings have been one of the most "Active" teams in the QB search.

Didn't try anything my ass. You make me snicker my friend. :laugh:

I need a grip on reality? From where I'm sitting, you are the one dealing with delusions, mein freund.

You're calling Holcomb, Bollinger, and Rosenfels, "Trying"?

You're calling token late round draft picks, "trying"?

You want to characterize Frerotte as "trying"?

And while acquiring Favre was "trying", it was "trying to save my job"...and then he BLEW IT by not TRYING to bring in a legit future QB during that 2 year period.

Don't confuse the signing of a boat load of sub par veterans and a series of late round "value picks" with actually TRYING.

And just because you sign a LOT of players at a certain position doesn't mean you've signed anyone with any real potential.

Quality, not quantity, is what determines "Trying".

What if we'd TRIED to increase QB pressure by signing a late round DE?

Wouldn't work.

We went and got Jared Allen instead.

What if we'd TRIED to improve our Linebacker corps by drafting a series of "value picks" and aging veterans?

Wouldn't work.

We got Greenway instead.

Shall we TRY and fix our O-line with late round picks and scrub FA's? If I recall correctly, YOU are one of the biggest proponents of drafting OL/DL early....

Well, let's NOT do that...we'll grab a couple value guys and FA cast offs, pat ourselves on the back for TRYING, then look confused when it DOESN'T WORK.

See a pattern? You're dangerously close to hypocrisy here. You're lauding and defending a course of action for one position that you would - and frequently DO - condemn for another.

You can't have it both ways.

If Chiller "Tried", then we should be able to fix our O-Line and D-Line issues with value picks and scrub FA's.

If that's unlikely to work - and it is - then how in the floop can you sit there and even TRY and sell the notion that Chiller tried to fix the QB position when he OBVIOUSLY didn't try very hard.

You can't. Not really. Not if you want to retain even a shred of integrity.

Caine

Marrdro
02-28-2011, 09:15 PM
Let's be completely honest here...no one really KNOWS who will pan out and who won't. Not until you see them play a few times.

For example, while I argued AGAINST starting Jackson in '07, I didn't KNOW he would fail...not until '08.

The same holds true in reverse - who KNEW Aaron Rodgers would be a star? 23 teams DIDN'T...or they would have drafted him. Green Bay needed a QB, Rodgers fell to them, and they got a great pick.

The POINT is that you have to TRY. Chiller didn't. He didn't bring guys in, he didn't offer options, and he flat out PASSED on the 2-3 hindsight viable options that we all AGREED then AND NOW that he should have looked at.

He stuck with Jackson.

He kept telling us how much Jackson had improved.

He kept telling us Jackson was ready.

And Jackson kept on sucking.

So, yes, I blame Chiller. Not for FAILING, but for not TRYING.

When you enter a season with 3 QB's on your roster - 1 a 6th round Wide receiver pick rookie, 1 a retirement bound band-aid, and 1 a 5 year failed project in the final year of his contract, that is NOT planning ahead.

Chiller fell in love with Jackson - hitched his wagon to Jackson - staked his professional reputation on Jackson - then couldn't deliver with Jackson. A more objective man would have recognized the need to seek an alternate QB...Chiller was too proud/foolish to do so.

And, as a final note, YOU keep saying how Jackson might blossom under the tutelage of a new franchise. That argument cuts both ways. I would submit that the same might be true for any of the QB prospects we DIDN'T look at had they come here.

Caine
He didn't try? WHAT....First, that statement is totally wrong. Mostly cause the Chiller wasn't the only one working the issue. It was the whole fricken staff my friend.

Unless of course you still believe that the HC runs around doing everything when it comes to player personnnel moves.

Second, They did try, problem is, the ones they brought in, never worked out. Heck, truth of the matter is, and you won't admit it, that TJ worked out to be the best one they brought in.

Drafted Four
2 Tarvaris Jackson Alabama State
7 Tyler Thigpen Coastal Carolina
5 John Booty USC
6 Joe Webb UAB

Traded for or aquired via FA
Rosenfell
Bollinger
Holcomb
Noodle

Not sure, however, I think there are atleast 4 other "Camp Arms" that have been brought in for a look.

I think you need a grip on reality my friend. If nothing else, the Vikings have been one of the most "Active" teams in the QB search.

Didn't try anything my ass. You make me snicker my friend. :laugh:

I need a grip on reality? From where I'm sitting, you are the one dealing with delusions, mein freund.

You're calling Holcomb, Bollinger, and Rosenfels, "Trying"?

You're calling token late round draft picks, "trying"?

You want to characterize Frerotte as "trying"?

And while acquiring Favre was "trying", it was "trying to save my job"...and then he BLEW IT by not TRYING to bring in a legit future QB during that 2 year period.

Don't confuse the signing of a boat load of sub par veterans and a series of late round "value picks" with actually TRYING.

And just because you sign a LOT of players at a certain position doesn't mean you've signed anyone with any real potential.

Quality, not quantity, is what determines "Trying".

What if we'd TRIED to increase QB pressure by signing a late round DE?

Wouldn't work.

We went and got Jared Allen instead.

What if we'd TRIED to improve our Linebacker corps by drafting a series of "value picks" and aging veterans?

Wouldn't work.

We got Greenway instead.

Shall we TRY and fix our O-line with late round picks and scrub FA's? If I recall correctly, YOU are one of the biggest proponents of drafting OL/DL early....

Well, let's NOT do that...we'll grab a couple value guys and FA cast offs, pat ourselves on the back for TRYING, then look confused when it DOESN'T WORK.

See a pattern? You're dangerously close to hypocrisy here. You're lauding and defending a course of action for one position that you would - and frequently DO - condemn for another.

You can't have it both ways.

If Chiller "Tried", then we should be able to fix our O-Line and D-Line issues with value picks and scrub FA's.

If that's unlikely to work - and it is - then how in the floop can you sit there and even TRY and sell the notion that Chiller tried to fix the QB position when he OBVIOUSLY didn't try very hard.

You can't. Not really. Not if you want to retain even a shred of integrity.

Caine
OK, if you don't like what they "Tried" with, you tell me the other options they should have tried.

I believe, in the thread I created that actually listed who was available, you came up with Carr.

Tell me how he is any different that the stuff that was out there that we tried with.

What doesn't work around here, and if there is any sort of integrity on a site of this nature (which I say there isn't) is that you continue to say crap like this and don't really look at the proof.

Again, who, other than who we brought in, would you have considered "Trying"?

LOL, you can't have it both ways either. Your integrity is on the line just as much as mine my friend. ;)

Caine
02-28-2011, 10:03 PM
Let's be completely honest here...no one really KNOWS who will pan out and who won't. Not until you see them play a few times.

For example, while I argued AGAINST starting Jackson in '07, I didn't KNOW he would fail...not until '08.

The same holds true in reverse - who KNEW Aaron Rodgers would be a star? 23 teams DIDN'T...or they would have drafted him. Green Bay needed a QB, Rodgers fell to them, and they got a great pick.

The POINT is that you have to TRY. Chiller didn't. He didn't bring guys in, he didn't offer options, and he flat out PASSED on the 2-3 hindsight viable options that we all AGREED then AND NOW that he should have looked at.

He stuck with Jackson.

He kept telling us how much Jackson had improved.

He kept telling us Jackson was ready.

And Jackson kept on sucking.

So, yes, I blame Chiller. Not for FAILING, but for not TRYING.

When you enter a season with 3 QB's on your roster - 1 a 6th round Wide receiver pick rookie, 1 a retirement bound band-aid, and 1 a 5 year failed project in the final year of his contract, that is NOT planning ahead.

Chiller fell in love with Jackson - hitched his wagon to Jackson - staked his professional reputation on Jackson - then couldn't deliver with Jackson. A more objective man would have recognized the need to seek an alternate QB...Chiller was too proud/foolish to do so.

And, as a final note, YOU keep saying how Jackson might blossom under the tutelage of a new franchise. That argument cuts both ways. I would submit that the same might be true for any of the QB prospects we DIDN'T look at had they come here.

Caine
He didn't try? WHAT....First, that statement is totally wrong. Mostly cause the Chiller wasn't the only one working the issue. It was the whole fricken staff my friend.

Unless of course you still believe that the HC runs around doing everything when it comes to player personnnel moves.

Second, They did try, problem is, the ones they brought in, never worked out. Heck, truth of the matter is, and you won't admit it, that TJ worked out to be the best one they brought in.

Drafted Four
2 Tarvaris Jackson Alabama State
7 Tyler Thigpen Coastal Carolina
5 John Booty USC
6 Joe Webb UAB

Traded for or aquired via FA
Rosenfell
Bollinger
Holcomb
Noodle

Not sure, however, I think there are atleast 4 other "Camp Arms" that have been brought in for a look.

I think you need a grip on reality my friend. If nothing else, the Vikings have been one of the most "Active" teams in the QB search.

Didn't try anything my ass. You make me snicker my friend. :laugh:

I need a grip on reality? From where I'm sitting, you are the one dealing with delusions, mein freund.

You're calling Holcomb, Bollinger, and Rosenfels, "Trying"?

You're calling token late round draft picks, "trying"?

You want to characterize Frerotte as "trying"?

And while acquiring Favre was "trying", it was "trying to save my job"...and then he BLEW IT by not TRYING to bring in a legit future QB during that 2 year period.

Don't confuse the signing of a boat load of sub par veterans and a series of late round "value picks" with actually TRYING.

And just because you sign a LOT of players at a certain position doesn't mean you've signed anyone with any real potential.

Quality, not quantity, is what determines "Trying".

What if we'd TRIED to increase QB pressure by signing a late round DE?

Wouldn't work.

We went and got Jared Allen instead.

What if we'd TRIED to improve our Linebacker corps by drafting a series of "value picks" and aging veterans?

Wouldn't work.

We got Greenway instead.

Shall we TRY and fix our O-line with late round picks and scrub FA's? If I recall correctly, YOU are one of the biggest proponents of drafting OL/DL early....

Well, let's NOT do that...we'll grab a couple value guys and FA cast offs, pat ourselves on the back for TRYING, then look confused when it DOESN'T WORK.

See a pattern? You're dangerously close to hypocrisy here. You're lauding and defending a course of action for one position that you would - and frequently DO - condemn for another.

You can't have it both ways.

If Chiller "Tried", then we should be able to fix our O-Line and D-Line issues with value picks and scrub FA's.

If that's unlikely to work - and it is - then how in the floop can you sit there and even TRY and sell the notion that Chiller tried to fix the QB position when he OBVIOUSLY didn't try very hard.

You can't. Not really. Not if you want to retain even a shred of integrity.

Caine
OK, if you don't like what they "Tried" with, you tell me the other options they should have tried.

I believe, in the thread I created that actually listed who was available, you came up with Carr.

Tell me how he is any different that the stuff that was out there that we tried with.

What doesn't work around here, and if there is any sort of integrity on a site of this nature (which I say there isn't) is that you continue to say crap like this and don't really look at the proof.

Again, who, other than who we brought in, would you have considered "Trying"?

LOL, you can't have it both ways either. Your integrity is on the line just as much as mine my friend. ;)

Other options - by year:

2006 Free Agents:
Drew Brees
John Kitna
Jeff Garcia
David Carr

2007 FA's:
Matt Schaub
Jeff Garcia (again)

2008 FA's:
Shaun Hill

2009 FA's:
Matt Cassel

2007 Draft choices:
Kevin Kolb (could have easily traded up for him)

2008 Draft Choices:
Joe Flacco - we traded for Allen...maybe we shouldn't have? Just saying MAYBE.

2010 Draft:
Tim Tebow
Jimmy Clausen
Colt McCoy

Any one of those options would have been arguably better than Jackson.

Caine

Purple Floyd
03-01-2011, 12:14 AM
Let's be completely honest here...no one really KNOWS who will pan out and who won't. Not until you see them play a few times.

For example, while I argued AGAINST starting Jackson in '07, I didn't KNOW he would fail...not until '08.

The same holds true in reverse - who KNEW Aaron Rodgers would be a star? 23 teams DIDN'T...or they would have drafted him. Green Bay needed a QB, Rodgers fell to them, and they got a great pick.

The POINT is that you have to TRY. Chiller didn't. He didn't bring guys in, he didn't offer options, and he flat out PASSED on the 2-3 hindsight viable options that we all AGREED then AND NOW that he should have looked at.

He stuck with Jackson.

He kept telling us how much Jackson had improved.

He kept telling us Jackson was ready.

And Jackson kept on sucking.

So, yes, I blame Chiller. Not for FAILING, but for not TRYING.

When you enter a season with 3 QB's on your roster - 1 a 6th round Wide receiver pick rookie, 1 a retirement bound band-aid, and 1 a 5 year failed project in the final year of his contract, that is NOT planning ahead.

Chiller fell in love with Jackson - hitched his wagon to Jackson - staked his professional reputation on Jackson - then couldn't deliver with Jackson. A more objective man would have recognized the need to seek an alternate QB...Chiller was too proud/foolish to do so.

And, as a final note, YOU keep saying how Jackson might blossom under the tutelage of a new franchise. That argument cuts both ways. I would submit that the same might be true for any of the QB prospects we DIDN'T look at had they come here.

Caine
He didn't try? WHAT....First, that statement is totally wrong. Mostly cause the Chiller wasn't the only one working the issue. It was the whole fricken staff my friend.

Unless of course you still believe that the HC runs around doing everything when it comes to player personnnel moves.

Second, They did try, problem is, the ones they brought in, never worked out. Heck, truth of the matter is, and you won't admit it, that TJ worked out to be the best one they brought in.

Drafted Four
2 Tarvaris Jackson Alabama State
7 Tyler Thigpen Coastal Carolina
5 John Booty USC
6 Joe Webb UAB

Traded for or aquired via FA
Rosenfell
Bollinger
Holcomb
Noodle

Not sure, however, I think there are atleast 4 other "Camp Arms" that have been brought in for a look.

I think you need a grip on reality my friend. If nothing else, the Vikings have been one of the most "Active" teams in the QB search.

Didn't try anything my ass. You make me snicker my friend. :laugh:

I need a grip on reality? From where I'm sitting, you are the one dealing with delusions, mein freund.

You're calling Holcomb, Bollinger, and Rosenfels, "Trying"?

You're calling token late round draft picks, "trying"?

You want to characterize Frerotte as "trying"?

And while acquiring Favre was "trying", it was "trying to save my job"...and then he BLEW IT by not TRYING to bring in a legit future QB during that 2 year period.

Don't confuse the signing of a boat load of sub par veterans and a series of late round "value picks" with actually TRYING.

And just because you sign a LOT of players at a certain position doesn't mean you've signed anyone with any real potential.

Quality, not quantity, is what determines "Trying".

What if we'd TRIED to increase QB pressure by signing a late round DE?

Wouldn't work.

We went and got Jared Allen instead.

What if we'd TRIED to improve our Linebacker corps by drafting a series of "value picks" and aging veterans?

Wouldn't work.

We got Greenway instead.

Shall we TRY and fix our O-line with late round picks and scrub FA's? If I recall correctly, YOU are one of the biggest proponents of drafting OL/DL early....

Well, let's NOT do that...we'll grab a couple value guys and FA cast offs, pat ourselves on the back for TRYING, then look confused when it DOESN'T WORK.

See a pattern? You're dangerously close to hypocrisy here. You're lauding and defending a course of action for one position that you would - and frequently DO - condemn for another.

You can't have it both ways.

If Chiller "Tried", then we should be able to fix our O-Line and D-Line issues with value picks and scrub FA's.

If that's unlikely to work - and it is - then how in the floop can you sit there and even TRY and sell the notion that Chiller tried to fix the QB position when he OBVIOUSLY didn't try very hard.

You can't. Not really. Not if you want to retain even a shred of integrity.

Caine
OK, if you don't like what they "Tried" with, you tell me the other options they should have tried.

I believe, in the thread I created that actually listed who was available, you came up with Carr.

Tell me how he is any different that the stuff that was out there that we tried with.

What doesn't work around here, and if there is any sort of integrity on a site of this nature (which I say there isn't) is that you continue to say crap like this and don't really look at the proof.

Again, who, other than who we brought in, would you have considered "Trying"?

LOL, you can't have it both ways either. Your integrity is on the line just as much as mine my friend. ;)

Other options - by year:

2006 Free Agents:
Drew Brees
John Kitna
Jeff Garcia
David Carr

2007 FA's:
Matt Schaub
Jeff Garcia (again)

2008 FA's:
Shaun Hill

2009 FA's:
Matt Cassel

2007 Draft choices:
Kevin Kolb (could have easily traded up for him)

2008 Draft Choices:
Joe Flacco - we traded for Allen...maybe we shouldn't have? Just saying MAYBE.

2010 Draft:
Tim Tebow
Jimmy Clausen
Colt McCoy

Any one of those options would have been arguably better than Jackson.

Caine

Don't forget that we could have kept Thigpen and cut Jacksons ass the second year.

Marrdro
03-01-2011, 02:13 PM
What makes you think that? There really wasn't anyone to sign and Childress certainly didn't put a priority on signing any quality QB's in the draft so I really have to wonder how you could have gotten to that conclusion.

The only way we would have been a year or two ahead at this time is if Childress had been fired a year or two earlier.
Still wouldn't have alleviated or eliminated the fact that who ever took over for the Chiller would still have to pick from the same dregs at QB that the staff picked from.

Unless of course you are aware of any Vet QB's that we passed in FA on or rookie QB's that we passed on in the draft that are now lighting it up in the league.

Aside from Warner (who most on here would have shit a brick on if we would have signed in 2006) and Bree's, who again, would have shit a brick on, there have been no other options for us to solve the QB position.

I suppose we could have signed Vick. After all he was in the pro bowl last year. We could have traded for McNabb, who I like less than Brett but he played in the same system as us so possibly he would have played better than he did in Washington.

We could have picked McCoy or Clausen in the draft. Both of them were starting last year and depending on how the draft goes they both very well might be starting this year.


What exactly was the shit a brick comment on Brees about anyway?
Would have you signed Vick? There is no way in hell the Ownership group was gonna OK bringing in a dog killer. No way.

McNabb, going into last season I would have agreed with you on. Good thing the staff evaluated him better than us yutz fans as well as the Deadskin staff. No way in heck I would bring him in this year. His arm is dead.

Both McCoy and Clausen, more so Clausen are considered busts already. I think its to soon to tell about McCoy, but I agree on Clausen and the only reason they might start again this year, is because there just isn't anything better out there.

To the Brees comment, most fans, like most teams, thought he was to big of a risk to take on because of his recent surgery. If the Vikes would have brought him in, most fans would have shit a brick.

As I've said repeatedly on this site, the state of the NFL QB is really really bad. Are there a couple of exciting kids that have come out in that last 3 years or so? Sure, but they are few and far between. The Vets that are good, or were good at one time, are only getting worse over time.

Trust me when I say this, but when teams are trading for the likes of Campbell and Whitehurst, QB's like TJ are gonna get serious looks.

Don't take that last part of my comment wrong. I am not, nor have I ever said (what you contend) that TJ is the next greatest thing to football. All I am saying is that he has gotten better each and every year. After sitting behind the Noodle, and watching how the WCO should really be run (2009), and seeing that his best progression came when he sat behind Ferrotte and watched, I can't help but think he is finally NFL ready.

If I can see that, I'm sure there is a team out there that needs a QB, that will see it that way as well. Truth of the matter is, (back to the state of the QB), there will probably be several teams that will look at him, again, not that he is great, but because there is nothing better out there.

If you don't take anything from this post, take this, go look at the FA list out there, then look at the QB's coming out in this draft. Who, from all of that, do you think is at the level a team needs when it comes to a QB who can win for a team.

Not many. That, IMHO, is why your gonna see teams put an emphasis on building a team instead of looking for a QB.

Marrdro
03-01-2011, 02:27 PM
2006 Free Agents:
Drew Brees
John Kitna
Jeff Garcia
David Carr

Carr - Again, really? What has he done in this league? Atleast TJ has a winning record and didn't get usurped by a guy this year that was sweeping streets and didn't even go to camp.

Garcia - First, he is a career 9-7 QB. Isn't it you who uses the "Mediocrity" statement all the time.

Kitna - I will almost give you that one. Honestly though, what would have you really said if the staff would have brought him in?

Brees - Again, I agree on him, but if you really look at the timing, I don't think the Vikes had a shot at him. His visits went firts to the Phins and then to the Ain'ts with most teams passing on him because of his arm. I for one, wouldn't have wanted him on the team given what we knew at the time.


2007 FA's:
Matt Schaub
Jeff Garcia (again)
Please, don't use Garcia again. Atleast TJ has a winning record and is still in the NFL. Garcia, well, he is in the UFL. If you go on the premise that he isn't on a NFL staff, well then, he can't be considered an option. Besides, the first two times he was available he pretty much jetted to one team and didn't give other teams an chance to bring him in. (Reality my friend).

Matt Schaub was available. Problem is, the asking price. Honestly, would you have given the asking price? Most teams didn't.


2008 FA's:
Shaun Hill
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. Almost as laughable as Carr. Comeon Caine, your really reaching, but I do appreciate the effort.


2009 FA's:
Matt Cassel
What would have you done? Cassel or the Noodle. Can't have both. On a side note, I bet I can go find comments from you were you probably said he hadn't shown/proven anything.


2007 Draft choices:
Kevin Kolb (could have easily traded up for him)
We could have trade up for Cutler, Ryan, Flacco, Sanchez. Comeon my friend. I said who was available, not who we could have got if a dream scenario happened.


2008 Draft Choices:
Joe Flacco - we traded for Allen...maybe we shouldn't have? Just saying MAYBE.
Nice, I like this one. I need to look at it a bit harder. So far, I give you this one.


2010 Draft:
Tim Tebow
Jimmy Clausen
Colt McCoy
Why draft more projects? None of these are viable starters coming out nor are they viable starters now.

In case you haven't been watching.......Orton will start for the Broncos, Clausen is considered a bust already and the team is looking at QBs. McCoy, I think, is gonna get one more chance this year, but he isn't going in as the starter.



Any one of those options would have been arguably better than Jackson.

Caine
Arguably, yes. Realistically, no, with one exception.

soonerbornNbred
03-01-2011, 03:22 PM
Give it up Marty TJ will NEVER qb a nfl team as the starter.... it wont happen, just like Chilly will never HC another NFL team they both had their shots and blew it....Just walk away your sounding foolish

Purple Floyd
03-01-2011, 03:47 PM
Would have you signed Vick? There is no way in hell the Ownership group was gonna OK bringing in a dog killer. No way.


He did the time and paid his price. The league reinstated him so yes, I believe the FO could have signed him. I am not one who wanted him at QB but if the only choice was him or TJ then Vick wins in a landslide.



McNabb, going into last season I would have agreed with you on. Good thing the staff evaluated him better than us yutz fans as well as the Deadskin staff. No way in heck I would bring him in this year. His arm is dead.
Or he needed to adjust to the system. I put that one out there for you to cut and paste as an excuse for Jackson over the next few years until he is out of the league.......



Both McCoy and Clausen, more so Clausen are considered busts already. I think its to soon to tell about McCoy, but I agree on Clausen and the only reason they might start again this year, is because there just isn't anything better out there.


To the Brees comment, most fans, like most teams, thought he was to big of a risk to take on because of his recent surgery. If the Vikes would have brought him in, most fans would have shit a brick.


That is pure BS. I don't know of anyone who was even remotely concerned about his health. If that is a problem then what the hell chance does Jackson have of getting picked up considering he is made of glass?



As I've said repeatedly on this site, the state of the NFL QB is really really bad. Are there a couple of exciting kids that have come out in that last 3 years or so? Sure, but they are few and far between. The Vets that are good, or were good at one time, are only getting worse over time.

Actually I think the QB's in the league on average are very very good compared to the past. You view is just skewed from having your head up jackson's butt for 5 years. Some fresh air would change your perspective:woohoo:

Rothlisberger
Manning
Brady
Rivers
Ryan
Rodgers
Cutler
Bradford
Dirty Sanchez
Cassell

That is a darn solid top ten list that would stack up well against any decade.



T
rust me when I say this, but when teams are trading for the likes of Campbell and Whitehurst, QB's like TJ are gonna get serious looks.

Well, he certainly got plenty of run when he was put on waivers last year.....

He probably will get a look as a reserve. He might even get a shot on a team that is going nowhere to start but only because he is going in the same direction.


Don't take that last part of my comment wrong. I am not, nor have I ever said (what you contend) that TJ is the next greatest thing to football. All I am saying is that he has gotten better each and every year. After sitting behind the Noodle, and watching how the WCO should really be run (2009), and seeing that his best progression came when he sat behind Ferrotte and watched, I can't help but think he is finally NFL ready.


What you think and what others know are 2 very different things. Tell us exactly what he is ready for and how that is going to translate on the field. What great leaps in ability have you seen that nobody else on the staff or that evaluate talent in the NFL have? Please, spell it out.





If I can see that, I'm sure there is a team out there that needs a QB, that will see it that way as well. Truth of the matter is, (back to the state of the QB), there will probably be several teams that will look at him, again, not that he is great, but because there is nothing better out there.

I am sure your phone is going to be ringing any day. Funny, you ask me if I am some sort of QB guru, which I have never claimed to be. Then you go out and make a statement that because you see something that there will also be a team somewhere who see it the same way. Kinda hypocritical isn't it?



If you don't take anything from this post, take this, go look at the FA list out there, then look at the QB's coming out in this draft. Who, from all of that, do you think is at the level a team needs when it comes to a QB who can win for a team.

Marc Bulger (UFA) - Baltimore
David Carr (UFA) - San Francisco
Kellen Clemens (UFA) - NY Jets
Kerry Collins (UFA) - Tennessee
Todd Collins (UFA) - Chicago
Brodie Croyle (UFA) - Kansas City
Dennis Dixon (RFA) - Pittsburgh
Trent Edwards (UFA) - Jacksonville
Brett Favre (UFA) - Minnesota
Charlie Frye (UFA) - Oakland
Bruce Gradkowski (UFA) - Oakland
Chris Greisen (UFA) - Dallas
Rex Grossman (UFA) - Washington
Caleb Hanie (RFA) - Chicago
Matt Hasselbeck (UFA) - Seattle
Tarvaris Jackson (UFA) - Minnesota
Matt Leinart (UFA) - Houston
J.P. Losman (UFA) - Seattle
Peyton Manning (UFA) - Indianapolis
Luke McCown (UFA) - Jacksonville
Matt Moore (UFA) - Carolina
J.T. O'Sullivan (UFA) - Oakland
Jordan Palmer (RFA) - Cincinnati



Not many. That, IMHO, is why your gonna see teams put an emphasis on building a team instead of looking for a QB.

I believe that I bolded 9 that I would take over Jackson and in the draft there are another 5-6 that would be on my list ahead of him. Then you can throw in guys like Kolb, McNabb,Tebow etc that might be available via trade and I just don't see his door getting busted down in the rush.

Marrdro
03-01-2011, 04:58 PM
Would have you signed Vick? There is no way in hell the Ownership group was gonna OK bringing in a dog killer. No way.


He did the time and paid his price. The league reinstated him so yes, I believe the FO could have signed him. I am not one who wanted him at QB but if the only choice was him or TJ then Vick wins in a landslide.

You are correct. He did do his time and paid the price. Thats not the problem. The problem is MN Nice and the push for a stadium. No way in hell they sign him and still get support for the stadium last year.

Course I don't think anything they do will get that, but you can still see my point.




McNabb, going into last season I would have agreed with you on. Good thing the staff evaluated him better than us yutz fans as well as the Deadskin staff. No way in heck I would bring him in this year. His arm is dead.
Or he needed to adjust to the system. I put that one out there for you to cut and paste as an excuse for Jackson over the next few years until he is out of the league.......
Fair point, but if you really watched Dnabb last year you could see his arm isn't the same. He was just to far off with his throws to believe he isn't on the serious side of the end of a career.

Long story longer, they resigned Dnabb for a reason. So the could control were he goes/get compensation back for him. No way he is on the Deadskins this year.

They will entertain offers until right before the season then cut him. By then it will be way to late for an aging arm to come in and be productive.





To the Brees comment, most fans, like most teams, thought he was to big of a risk to take on because of his recent surgery. If the Vikes would have brought him in, most fans would have shit a brick.

That is pure BS. I don't know of anyone who was even remotely concerned about his health. If that is a problem then what the hell chance does Jackson have of getting picked up considering he is made of glass?
Pure BS?

Seriuosly, you think that when Brees hit the market there wasn't concerns over his surgery and how it healed?

You do remember thats why the Chargers went with the new kid and let Brees walk for nothing right.

Here is a quick article, but a google search will show alot more that are alot harder on the Saints for signing him.


"Drew was sufficiently impressed with the organization and the head coach in New Orleans," said Brees' agent, Tom Condon, referring to Payton. "New Orleans was also very comfortable with the risk-reward, based on his rehabilitation from the injury, and Miami didn't have that same level of comfort, so New Orleans made a lot of sense for us."


Brees Agrees to Six year Deal (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2368304)



As I've said repeatedly on this site, the state of the NFL QB is really really bad. Are there a couple of exciting kids that have come out in that last 3 years or so? Sure, but they are few and far between. The Vets that are good, or were good at one time, are only getting worse over time.

Actually I think the QB's in the league on average are very very good compared to the past. You view is just skewed from having your head up jackson's butt for 5 years. Some fresh air would change your perspective:woohoo:

Rothlisberger
Manning
Brady
Rivers
Ryan
Rodgers
Cutler
Bradford
Dirty Sanchez
Cassell

That is a darn solid top ten list that would stack up well against any decade.
First, why the "Head stuck up TJ's ass" comment. For the life of me I can't figure out why you are so hostile. Its football, not life or death.

Second, I agree, there are some really interesting kids out there. Problem is, there aren't enough and the number keeps getting smaller.

7 of the top 10 teams drafting this year need a starting QB. 7. That is a number that stacks up pretty high as well.

Of the QB's listed above, who do you think can actually lead a team and not mistakes during the game, to a point were he costs the team games?

I think if your honest with your analysis, that number will dwindle to 3.



rust me when I say this, but when teams are trading for the likes of Campbell and Whitehurst, QB's like TJ are gonna get serious looks.

Well, he certainly got plenty of run when he was put on waivers last year.....

He probably will get a look as a reserve. He might even get a shot on a team that is going nowhere to start but only because he is going in the same direction.
Yea right. Guys like Dumervill were crap as well cause no teams went after him last year.

Truth of the matter is there was no effort to go after any teams FA's because the owners agreed to do it that way. Hard to prove mind you, but the players are putting together some sort of case that tracks along that train of thought.



Don't take that last part of my comment wrong. I am not, nor have I ever said (what you contend) that TJ is the next greatest thing to football. All I am saying is that he has gotten better each and every year. After sitting behind the Noodle, and watching how the WCO should really be run (2009), and seeing that his best progression came when he sat behind Ferrotte and watched, I can't help but think he is finally NFL ready.


What you think and what others know are 2 very different things. Tell us exactly what he is ready for and how that is going to translate on the field. What great leaps in ability have you seen that nobody else on the staff or that evaluate talent in the NFL have? Please, spell it out.
Of course what I think is just that, what I think based on what I've seen over time. But I'm not sure were the "Others Know" falls. Who knows?

Besides, I've done it numerous times. Search the database.



If I can see that, I'm sure there is a team out there that needs a QB, that will see it that way as well. Truth of the matter is, (back to the state of the QB), there will probably be several teams that will look at him, again, not that he is great, but because there is nothing better out there.

I am sure your phone is going to be ringing any day. Funny, you ask me if I am some sort of QB guru, which I have never claimed to be. Then you go out and make a statement that because you see something that there will also be a team somewhere who see it the same way. Kinda hypocritical isn't it?
Why is it hypocritical? I'm not saying I'm some sort of guru. All I'm trying to do is to tell you my side. You, on the other hand, seem to be very very very pissy about the whole thing.

Again, no right, no wrong. ITS A FRICKEN discussion. No one, atleast not me, is trying to be hypocritical here.

I have a opinion. You have a opinion. I can see your side. Hell, I've even been on your side long before you showed up. I've just seen enough that I think he is finally ready to start.

Again, that doesn't mean he isn't gonna make mistakes. I just think he is ready enough to minimize those mistakes.



Marc Bulger (UFA) - Baltimore
David Carr (UFA) - San Francisco
Kerry Collins (UFA) - Tennessee
Todd Collins (UFA) - Chicago
Brodie Croyle (UFA) - Kansas City
Trent Edwards (UFA) - Jacksonville
Rex Grossman (UFA) - Washington
Matt Hasselbeck (UFA) - Seattle
Peyton Manning (UFA) - Indianapolis
Luke McCown (UFA) - Jacksonville


Not many. That, IMHO, is why your gonna see teams put an emphasis on building a team instead of looking for a QB.

I believe that I bolded 9 that I would take over Jackson and in the draft there are another 5-6 that would be on my list ahead of him. Then you can throw in guys like Kolb, McNabb,Tebow etc that might be available via trade and I just don't see his door getting busted down in the rush.

Now we are getting someplace. Something tangeble out of you that I can see.

Bulger. Interesting. Makes me wonder how much he has in the tank seeings how the Rams moved on to a rookie. Still, might be worth a look.

Carr. Please. He was on the 49rs roster last year when all the other QB's sucked. He had a chance and instead they brought in a guy off the streets that wasn't even in camp.

Collins. I think he will be a Titan next year. They have no other option.

Collins, Croyle, Edwards. Haven't they had just as many chances as TJ? I did rate Brody pretty high when he came out. Not so much now. Again, when you look at the body of work that they have put up against TJ's and factor in that he knows the scheme, I would take TJ over them.

Grossman will not be available. The Deadskins are gonna go with him.

Hassleback is another interesting option but I wonder about his health. I would have to see how the new blocking scheme will jive with the movement required by the QB in this scheme.

Again, kindof an apples and oranges thing when you compare him with TJ. Kindof makes the "Time in the System" variable override Matt as a possible option. Still, he is interesting.

No way Peyton isn't a Colt. Not an option.

Luke just signed with the Dolphins I think.

On a side note. Try to relax a bit and have some fun. Again, this isnt' life and death or anything. Its a discussion page. I have an opinion, you have an opinion kindof thing. ;)

Purple Floyd
03-01-2011, 07:53 PM
You are correct. He did do his time and paid the price. Thats not the problem. The problem is MN Nice and the push for a stadium. No way in hell they sign him and still get support for the stadium last year.

Course I don't think anything they do will get that, but you can still see my point.

Link? Do you have an actual press release stating that the FO would not sign him? Nope, sorry my friend you have no evidence that was the case.


Fair point, but if you really watched Dnabb last year you could see his arm isn't the same. He was just to far off with his throws to believe he isn't on the serious side of the end of a career.

Long story longer, they resigned Dnabb for a reason. So the could control were he goes/get compensation back for him. No way he is on the Deadskins this year.

They will entertain offers until right before the season then cut him. By then it will be way to late for an aging arm to come in and be productive.

He was in a new system with new players. How do you jnow that he just wasn't on the same page with the WR's yet? It is just as likely they were running the wrong route.



Pure BS?

Seriuosly, you think that when Brees hit the market there wasn't concerns over his surgery and how it healed?

You do remember thats why the Chargers went with the new kid and let Brees walk for nothing right.

Here is a quick article, but a google search will show alot more that are alot harder on the Saints for signing him.

Of course teams needed to use due diligence. They let Brees go because Rivers was a prototype for their scheme and he was cheaper so they let Drew walk. Very unusual circumstance for sure but they did have a replacement ready to go.

In the end you do not know that fans would have been pissed by the team signing him. If any were initially it would have lasted only one or two preseason games before that was over.


First, why the "Head stuck up TJ's ass" comment. For the life of me I can't figure out why you are so hostile. Its football, not life or death.

Hostile? I am giving you crap. I can't paste a smiley after every sentence for gods sake.:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

Second, I agree, there are some really interesting kids out there. Problem is, there aren't enough and the number keeps getting smaller.

7 of the top 10 teams drafting this year need a starting QB. 7. That is a number that stacks up pretty high as well.

There are always 7-10 teams at the bottom that need QB's. It has never been any different than that.


Of the QB's listed above, who do you think can actually lead a team and not mistakes during the game, to a point were he costs the team games?

I think if your honest with your analysis, that number will dwindle to 3.

Even the remaining 3 will make mistakes that will lose games so that question is moot.All of them are stars or emerging stars in the league and they would improve any team that doesn't have a QB on that list.

Why is it hypocritical? I'm not saying I'm some sort of guru. All I'm trying to do is to tell you my side. You, on the other hand, seem to be very very very pissy about the whole thing.

Again, no right, no wrong. ITS A FRICKEN discussion. No one, atleast not me, is trying to be hypocritical here.

I have a opinion. You have a opinion. I can see your side. Hell, I've even been on your side long before you showed up. I've just seen enough that I think he is finally ready to start.

Again, that doesn't mean he isn't gonna make mistakes. I just think he is ready enough to minimize those mistakes.

Again, sorry about not pasting enough smilies into my post. I am far from pissy and actually get many chuckles when posting on these threads. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

On a side note. Try to relax a bit and have some fun. Again, this isnt' life and death or anything. Its a discussion page. I have an opinion, you have an opinion kindof thing.

Oh I am relaxed, you are just reading too much into it.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Marrdro
03-01-2011, 08:33 PM
You are correct. He did do his time and paid the price. Thats not the problem. The problem is MN Nice and the push for a stadium. No way in hell they sign him and still get support for the stadium last year.

Course I don't think anything they do will get that, but you can still see my point.

Link? Do you have an actual press release stating that the FO would not sign him? Nope, sorry my friend you have no evidence that was the case.

I lived in MN for the first 20 or so years of my life. Trust me when I tell you that there would have been a major PR nightmare if they would have signed Vick. Not from football fans mind you, although there would have been some, but rather the voting public.

Besides, its a discussion point based on my opinion. Why do I need proof? Unless of course WEbby has changed the site to a "Debate Site".



Fair point, but if you really watched Dnabb last year you could see his arm isn't the same. He was just to far off with his throws to believe he isn't on the serious side of the end of a career.

Long story longer, they resigned Dnabb for a reason. So the could control were he goes/get compensation back for him. No way he is on the Deadskins this year.

They will entertain offers until right before the season then cut him. By then it will be way to late for an aging arm to come in and be productive.

He was in a new system with new players. How do you jnow that he just wasn't on the same page with the WR's yet? It is just as likely they were running the wrong route.
In some instances there were the WR's fault. In others you could see that Dnabb (going with the ball) and the WR (running his route) were on the same page.

Heck, I can't remember how many times I saw Dnabb tap his chest (my fault) this year. It happened alot. It got so bad that at one point the local TV station ran a clip of him doing it in the nightly news.




Pure BS?

Seriuosly, you think that when Brees hit the market there wasn't concerns over his surgery and how it healed?

You do remember thats why the Chargers went with the new kid and let Brees walk for nothing right.

Here is a quick article, but a google search will show alot more that are alot harder on the Saints for signing him.

Of course teams needed to use due diligence. They let Brees go because Rivers was a prototype for their scheme and he was cheaper so they let Drew walk. Very unusual circumstance for sure but they did have a replacement ready to go.

In the end you do not know that fans would have been pissed by the team signing him. If any were initially it would have lasted only one or two preseason games before that was over.
Agree, but it would have been hectic until those two preseason games were over.

In the end, I think the whole "Brees as a viable option" doesn't work because the timing just didn't support getting him in for our docs to look at him.

Could we have got him though? Sure and I give EJ this one, but with the caveat that I don't think it was a reasonable option.



First, why the "Head stuck up TJ's ass" comment. For the life of me I can't figure out why you are so hostile. Its football, not life or death.

Hostile? I am giving you crap. I can't paste a smiley after every sentence for gods sake.
OK, I can live with that. Just need to get used to you a bit more I guess.

Not one to cast stones, I readily admit that my attempts at humor really suck.

In the end, no need for alot of smileys. They make it to damn hard to reply to all your damn quotes. :laugh:



Second, I agree, there are some really interesting kids out there. Problem is, there aren't enough and the number keeps getting smaller.

7 of the top 10 teams drafting this year need a starting QB. 7. That is a number that stacks up pretty high as well.

There are always 7-10 teams at the bottom that need QB's. It has never been any different than that.
Yea but thats just the top 10. How many teams need a starting QB this year. Well over half either need one now, or will need one next year.

Thats pretty bad to say when you look at it.

Over half the teams, in a QB driven league, don't have QB's. WOW.



Of the QB's listed above, who do you think can actually lead a team and not mistakes during the game, to a point were he costs the team games?

I think if your honest with your analysis, that number will dwindle to 3.

Even the remaining 3 will make mistakes that will lose games so that question is moot.All of them are stars or emerging stars in the league and they would improve any team that doesn't have a QB on that list.
But the mistakes happen so few and far between they don't, in most instances, cost teams games.

Right now I can come up with the following QB's that I put in that catagory (see my other post on criteria)

Peyton
Brady
Brees
Rodgers (I think he really emerged this year)
Schaub (Maybe)

Teams that I think are set, but still need for thier QB's to grow a bit...

Giants
Ravens
Iggles (I like what Mike has done but worry about his ability to stay healthy)
Falcons
Chargers
Bores
Rams

Leaves over half the league. Who, right now today, is gonna fix those other teams?



Why is it hypocritical? I'm not saying I'm some sort of guru. All I'm trying to do is to tell you my side. You, on the other hand, seem to be very very very pissy about the whole thing.

Again, no right, no wrong. ITS A FRICKEN discussion. No one, atleast not me, is trying to be hypocritical here.

I have a opinion. You have a opinion. I can see your side. Hell, I've even been on your side long before you showed up. I've just seen enough that I think he is finally ready to start.

Again, that doesn't mean he isn't gonna make mistakes. I just think he is ready enough to minimize those mistakes.

Again, sorry about not pasting enough smilies into my post. I am far from pissy and actually get many chuckles when posting on these threads.
On a side note. Try to relax a bit and have some fun. Again, this isnt' life and death or anything. Its a discussion page. I have an opinion, you have an opinion kindof thing.

Oh I am relaxed, you are just reading too much into it


Again, I can live with that. My apologies. I will try to have a bit thicker skin when I read your posts.

PurpleBloodPurpleBones
03-08-2011, 10:12 PM
Another opinion on this that paints a slightly rosier picture. Vikings are #5 on the list.

Link (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/41881898/ns/sports-nfl/)