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Marrdro
12-22-2010, 06:41 PM
"The record doesn't show it, but we're still a good football team," defensive tackle Kevin Williams said following Monday night's 40-14 loss to the division-clinching Chicago Bears. "Everybody's pressing, trying to do this and that, and it looks a little nasty. We're still fighting, but we just can't get it rolling.


Shooter Now: Vikings are 'a good football team' getting bad breaks, Kevin Williams says (http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_16920229?source=rss&nclick_check=1)
To many protecting themselves K-dubb. To many protecting themselves.

Caine
12-22-2010, 07:26 PM
"The record doesn't show it, but we're still a good football team," defensive tackle Kevin Williams said following Monday night's 40-14 loss to the division-clinching Chicago Bears. "Everybody's pressing, trying to do this and that, and it looks a little nasty. We're still fighting, but we just can't get it rolling.


Shooter Now: Vikings are 'a good football team' getting bad breaks, Kevin Williams says (http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_16920229?source=rss&nclick_check=1)
To many protecting themselves K-dubb. To many protecting themselves.

Or they're a BAD football team who had good breaks last season.

In all seriousness, I don't think we're as good as many project.

Our Receiver corps is weak/thin. Our O-line is crap. Our D-line is crap. Our secondary is crap. Our QB situation is laughable.

Aside from Peterson and the Linebackers, I'm not real happy with the majority of the team. No way I'm calling them a "good team".

Caine

Infidel
12-22-2010, 07:32 PM
Good teams stay fired up.

Good teams protect their QB.

Good teams converge on the ball to make the tackle on defense. The ball carrier draws a crowd, wherever he may be.

Good teams seem interested in the game.

Good teams win.

Marrdro
12-22-2010, 07:41 PM
"The record doesn't show it, but we're still a good football team," defensive tackle Kevin Williams said following Monday night's 40-14 loss to the division-clinching Chicago Bears. "Everybody's pressing, trying to do this and that, and it looks a little nasty. We're still fighting, but we just can't get it rolling.


Shooter Now: Vikings are 'a good football team' getting bad breaks, Kevin Williams says (http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_16920229?source=rss&nclick_check=1)
To many protecting themselves K-dubb. To many protecting themselves.

Or they're a BAD football team who had good breaks last season.

In all seriousness, I don't think we're as good as many project.

Our Receiver corps is weak/thin. Our O-line is crap. Our D-line is crap. Our secondary is crap. Our QB situation is laughable.

Aside from Peterson and the Linebackers, I'm not real happy with the majority of the team. No way I'm calling them a "good team".

Caine
I like your first point. Something I haven't pondered yet.

I, for one, still think we have a pretty talented team. Problem is most of our talent is still coming out of thier first contract year and should have had long term deals done.

I know you don't agree with me, but if you take that many players and tell them play out the year and then we will talk about a long term deal, I think you will see alot of them playing to protect themselves for next year, not this year.

Rice is a prime example. Anyone with half a brain can read between the leaves and see that his agent said, hold off on the surgery, get it done so that you come back just in time to get under the deadline of minimum games and we will get you your money in FA after the season.

Long story longer, it doesn't take to many players on a team playing with that type of attitude to see a team basically go in the tank.

As big of a proponent as I am of El Syd, I am almost of the mind to tell him to pack sand and take his boy Edwards with him. Everson has shown he has the motor and the skills to play LDE. Get rid of Kennedy and plug Guion in at the 0 technique etc etc etc.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see what they command on the open market when they leave. Might be a indicator of how good other teams percieve them to be.

Marrdro
12-22-2010, 07:43 PM
Good teams stay fired up.

Good teams protect their QB.

Good teams converge on the ball to make the tackle on defense. The ball carrier draws a crowd, wherever he may be.

Good teams seem interested in the game.

Good teams win.
Good stuff. A few more to add to the list....

Good teams don't lead the league in turnovers.
Good teams don't commit stupid penalties.
Good teams score when they get into the redzone.
Good teams are good in all 3 phases (ST's, Offense, Defense).
Good teams win close games.

Caine
12-22-2010, 07:51 PM
"The record doesn't show it, but we're still a good football team," defensive tackle Kevin Williams said following Monday night's 40-14 loss to the division-clinching Chicago Bears. "Everybody's pressing, trying to do this and that, and it looks a little nasty. We're still fighting, but we just can't get it rolling.


Shooter Now: Vikings are 'a good football team' getting bad breaks, Kevin Williams says (http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_16920229?source=rss&nclick_check=1)
To many protecting themselves K-dubb. To many protecting themselves.

Or they're a BAD football team who had good breaks last season.

In all seriousness, I don't think we're as good as many project.

Our Receiver corps is weak/thin. Our O-line is crap. Our D-line is crap. Our secondary is crap. Our QB situation is laughable.

Aside from Peterson and the Linebackers, I'm not real happy with the majority of the team. No way I'm calling them a "good team".

Caine
I like your first point. Something I haven't pondered yet.

I, for one, still think we have a pretty talented team. Problem is most of our talent is still coming out of thier first contract year and should have had long term deals done.

I know you don't agree with me, but if you take that many players and tell them play out the year and then we will talk about a long term deal, I think you will see alot of them playing to protect themselves for next year, not this year.

Rice is a prime example. Anyone with half a brain can read between the leaves and see that his agent said, hold off on the surgery, get it done so that you come back just in time to get under the deadline of minimum games and we will get you your money in FA after the season.

Long story longer, it doesn't take to many players on a team playing with that type of attitude to see a team basically go in the tank.

As big of a proponent as I am of El Syd, I am almost of the mind to tell him to pack sand and take his boy Edwards with him. Everson has shown he has the motor and the skills to play LDE. Get rid of Kennedy and plug Guion in at the 0 technique etc etc etc.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see what they command on the open market when they leave. Might be a indicator of how good other teams percieve them to be.

Highlighted above is the best sentence you've written in weeks.

Rice is GOOD, but I'm not convinced he's worth the big money he'll be looking for. I think he's going to be more of a Nate Burleson than a Santana Moss.

Edwards has always been disposable...only BSberkleybitch couldn't figure that out.

Caine

Infidel
12-22-2010, 08:20 PM
Rice is a prime example. Anyone with half a brain can read between the leaves and see that his agent said, hold off on the surgery, get it done so that you come back just in time to get under the deadline of minimum games and we will get you your money in FA after the season.

Well, I have a whole brain and I can't read that.

It's called an educated guess, and that's not reading, it's speculating.....in this case, pretty wildly.

Rice and several other players are probably anxious about their FA fate due to their lack of convincing accomplishments this year.

That's one reason we may get some of them back.

jmcdon00
12-22-2010, 08:37 PM
I agree with Kevin to a point. I don't think the difference from last year to this year is as big as one might think just looking at the record.

12 wins last year 6 wins this year.

Last year we played 10 teams with losing records and beat 8 of them. This year we will play 6, likely beating all 6.

Last year we got a lucky break against the Ravens, they missed a short field goal in the dome that would have won the game. This year we got unlucky against the Packers with bad calls.

Injuries are a big part of it too. Don't know the numbers but it sure seems injuries have been more prevelent this year(especially on offense).

Infidel
12-22-2010, 08:42 PM
I think a big part of it is that the good teams manage to stay interested in the game even when they get bad breaks.

In fact, the mediocre teams (which is what the Vikings now are) tend to lose their intensity and make more mistakes when they get a few bad breaks.

Good teams play harder, better and mistake-free when things get tough.

The Vikings simply haven't done that, and therein lies a big part of their lack of success this season.

Coaches play a big part in combating this.....and we lacked a coach for most of the season.

Marrdro
12-22-2010, 08:43 PM
"The record doesn't show it, but we're still a good football team," defensive tackle Kevin Williams said following Monday night's 40-14 loss to the division-clinching Chicago Bears. "Everybody's pressing, trying to do this and that, and it looks a little nasty. We're still fighting, but we just can't get it rolling.


Shooter Now: Vikings are 'a good football team' getting bad breaks, Kevin Williams says (http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_16920229?source=rss&nclick_check=1)
To many protecting themselves K-dubb. To many protecting themselves.

Or they're a BAD football team who had good breaks last season.

In all seriousness, I don't think we're as good as many project.

Our Receiver corps is weak/thin. Our O-line is crap. Our D-line is crap. Our secondary is crap. Our QB situation is laughable.

Aside from Peterson and the Linebackers, I'm not real happy with the majority of the team. No way I'm calling them a "good team".

Caine
I like your first point. Something I haven't pondered yet.

I, for one, still think we have a pretty talented team. Problem is most of our talent is still coming out of thier first contract year and should have had long term deals done.

I know you don't agree with me, but if you take that many players and tell them play out the year and then we will talk about a long term deal, I think you will see alot of them playing to protect themselves for next year, not this year.

Rice is a prime example. Anyone with half a brain can read between the leaves and see that his agent said, hold off on the surgery, get it done so that you come back just in time to get under the deadline of minimum games and we will get you your money in FA after the season.

Long story longer, it doesn't take to many players on a team playing with that type of attitude to see a team basically go in the tank.

As big of a proponent as I am of El Syd, I am almost of the mind to tell him to pack sand and take his boy Edwards with him. Everson has shown he has the motor and the skills to play LDE. Get rid of Kennedy and plug Guion in at the 0 technique etc etc etc.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see what they command on the open market when they leave. Might be a indicator of how good other teams percieve them to be.

Highlighted above is the best sentence you've written in weeks.

Rice is GOOD, but I'm not convinced he's worth the big money he'll be looking for. I think he's going to be more of a Nate Burleson than a Santana Moss.

Edwards has always been disposable...only BSberkleybitch couldn't figure that out.

Caine
I don't know about El Syd. I think he still hasn't hit his peak yet. Might not based on injuries he has and still might get. I wouldn't mind grabbing a big kid coming out this year but you would have to go through the whole 3 year learning curve with him just as you have with Syd.

Hopefully he won't have the injury bug.

I think the same can be said for Ray. I think they like Ray but, like me, don't believe he can stand up to the rigors at LDE. Again, his frame is really that of a RDE. He's just beefed up a bit.

You take off 10-15 lbs and move him back to RDE and I bet you see his sack totals go up again. Cat has been up there in pressures as a LDE for a reason.

The shame of it all is that the 2006 and 2007 classes should just be hitting thier prime and we should have them inked and working on growing the 08, 09 and 10 kids.

Now we are going to force 08 and 09 kids, probably some 11 kids on the field before thier time and I will have to sit here and stick up for them like I did Chad and Griff cause fans don't understand they are young and make mistakes. Heck, even old vets make mistakes. Just ask Phat Pat. He got caught up in it bad acouple of times monday.

rednorsk
12-22-2010, 08:47 PM
I admit that Brett Favre has been off his game this year, but he is a better man than a whole bunch of overpaid underachievers on the team. Management blew it under Childress by not having more development for QB.
I agree with what was said above the O-line and the D-line are really bad news. The next dumb move will be going for another washed up QB.

Caine
12-22-2010, 08:48 PM
I agree with Kevin to a point. I don't think the difference from last year to this year is as big as one might think just looking at the record.

12 wins last year 6 wins this year.

Last year we played 10 teams with losing records and beat 8 of them. This year we will play 6, likely beating all 6.

Last year we got a lucky break against the Ravens, they missed a short field goal in the dome that would have won the game. This year we got unlucky against the Packers with bad calls.

Injuries are a big part of it too. Don't know the numbers but it sure seems injuries have been more prevelent this year(especially on offense).

But, again, aren't those things that GOOD teams are supposed to overcome?

As much as I hate to make the comparison, look at the Packers. No team in the NFL has lost as many starters to injury as they have, yet they were in the hunt for the NFCN until Rodgers went down...and they're still possibly in the play-off picture.

Why?

Are they that much LUCKIER than we are, or are they just GOOD?

(See why it pains me to make that comparison?)

Our team this season has been a total abortion. Only a handful of players can hold their heads high and say, "I played my ass off".

player for player, are we that much worse?

Was it coaching?

Was it the looming free agency/lockout question?

I don't know.

But if players aren't making plays, does it really matter why? If they can't get it done, replace them with someone who can.

If your coach can't get it done, replace him with someone who can.

I think that we are a BAD team right now. I would be hard pressed to find 11 guys on our starting roster I would consider worth keeping right now...and that includes both sides of the ball.

Maybe that's too harsh, but maybe that's what we NEED...someone to come in and light a fire under these guys assess.

Lord knows I'm ready...and I'll bring a flame thrower!!!!

Caine

Marrdro
12-22-2010, 08:48 PM
Rice is a prime example. Anyone with half a brain can read between the leaves and see that his agent said, hold off on the surgery, get it done so that you come back just in time to get under the deadline of minimum games and we will get you your money in FA after the season.

Well, I have a whole brain and I can't read that.

It's called an educated guess, and that's not reading, it's speculating.....in this case, pretty wildly.

Rice and several other players are probably anxious about their FA fate due to their lack of convincing accomplishments this year.

That's one reason we may get some of them back.
Maybe your more of an optimist than I.

As to how wild my speculation is, you might be correct, however, I have watched the game along time and actually enjoy the Front Office aspect of the game more than I do the game.

Since the onset of FA in the league, players aren't as loyal as they used to be. They go were the money is. How they get the money is via two avenues......1) Upfront gauranteed and 2) Escalators/incentives.

Without a contract that gives them those things they will protect themselves and won't risk a career ending injury because they love the game, fans or thier team.

Specualation is a good word. I like it. I speculate that we will have a whole new roster next year and alot of our talent that is on this roster this year will be hitting thier escalators on other rosters.

Infidel
12-22-2010, 09:09 PM
Why should we think that Rice won't get his most attractive offer from the Vikings?

Will our QB situation drive him and other receivers to other teams?

AngloVike
12-22-2010, 09:38 PM
Why should we think that Rice won't get his most attractive offer from the Vikings?

Will our QB situation drive him and other receivers to other teams?

Because his agent is Rosenwhore whose mininum expectation from a team is most attractive and then wants to drive it up from there.
He'll already be looking around and have a few teams in mind to target and that will be re-inforced by those making the playoffs this year. The QB situation will Rosenwhore's ace in convincing Rice to look elsewhere.

Infidel
12-22-2010, 09:47 PM
Well, unless Rice somehow catches a lot of passes from a game but struggling Joe Webb (who will be dodging a pass rush unimpeded by pass blocking).....there will be no positive stats to market on this year's performance and the hip will still be in question.

I'm not sure that Rice is going to get much in the way of offers from anybody.....his good performance with Favre is already getting to be ancient history.

Minniman
12-23-2010, 04:34 AM
Good teams stay fired up.

Good teams protect their QB.

Good teams converge on the ball to make the tackle on defense. The ball carrier draws a crowd, wherever he may be.

Good teams seem interested in the game.

Good teams win.
Good stuff. A few more to add to the list....

Good teams don't lead the league in turnovers.
Good teams don't commit stupid penalties.
Good teams score when they get into the redzone.
Good teams are good in all 3 phases (ST's, Offense, Defense).
Good teams win close games.
Good teams are coached well enough to eliminate luck as a major factor in the outcome of football games.

Luck, a crazy bounce or a slippery ball in bad weather, can make the difference in a close game, but it usually averages out. Luck is not going to make a difference when the defensive line does not get pressure and the wide receiver beats the cornerback deep by three yards.

The Vikings are not a well coached team, and I do not see an improvement under Frazier. It may be unfair, because he has to coach with the group Childress brought in, but it is, after all, his defensive scheme that is getting blow out.

Marrdro
12-23-2010, 05:32 PM
Why should we think that Rice won't get his most attractive offer from the Vikings?

Will our QB situation drive him and other receivers to other teams?

Because his agent is Rosenwhore whose mininum expectation from a team is most attractive and then wants to drive it up from there.
He'll already be looking around and have a few teams in mind to target and that will be re-inforced by those making the playoffs this year. The QB situation will Rosenwhore's ace in convincing Rice to look elsewhere.
Spot on Anglo.

Add to that there are several on this team that are gonna want top dollar.
Ol Bryzcheapski is pretty smart in that area. A oft injured, although talented WR might not be at the top of the list.

Caine
12-23-2010, 07:26 PM
Why should we think that Rice won't get his most attractive offer from the Vikings?

Will our QB situation drive him and other receivers to other teams?

Because his agent is Rosenwhore whose mininum expectation from a team is most attractive and then wants to drive it up from there.
He'll already be looking around and have a few teams in mind to target and that will be re-inforced by those making the playoffs this year. The QB situation will Rosenwhore's ace in convincing Rice to look elsewhere.
Spot on Anglo.

Add to that there are several on this team that are gonna want top dollar.
Ol Bryzcheapski is pretty smart in that area. A oft injured, although talented WR might not be at the top of the list.

He's not real high on MY list...

AngloVike
12-23-2010, 08:04 PM
Why should we think that Rice won't get his most attractive offer from the Vikings?

Will our QB situation drive him and other receivers to other teams?

Because his agent is Rosenwhore whose mininum expectation from a team is most attractive and then wants to drive it up from there.
He'll already be looking around and have a few teams in mind to target and that will be re-inforced by those making the playoffs this year. The QB situation will Rosenwhore's ace in convincing Rice to look elsewhere.
Spot on Anglo.

Add to that there are several on this team that are gonna want top dollar.
Ol Bryzcheapski is pretty smart in that area. A oft injured, although talented WR might not be at the top of the list.

Agreed there are some positions I'd rather spend the money on where I know we'll get a good return eg LB. Whilst good WRs aren't necessarily 10 a penny I think they are a little easier to pick up good ones as opposed to look to overspend for a better one.

Infidel
12-23-2010, 09:26 PM
While some of our players may WISH they could get top dollar.....some are kidding themselves and will find themselves staying with the Vikings.

With Rice and others on the offense, it may depend a lot on whether or not they think the offense can succeed next year.....to me, prospects are not that good.

Nobody is talking about fixing the broken O-Line and QB situation is volatile and vague.

It would help if Webb could make a good showing in the next two games, but the odds are against him. Even if he gets improved pass protection.....he's got a lot to learn.

AngloVike
12-23-2010, 09:37 PM
While some of our players may WISH they could get top dollar.....some are kidding themselves and will find themselves staying with the Vikings.

With Rice and others on the offense, it may depend a lot on whether or not they think the offense can succeed next year.....to me, prospects are not that good.

in Rice's case his agent won't want to take a chance so I don't expect to see him in Minny after this season. Also depends on whether the Vikes want to keep said players.

Marrdro
12-28-2010, 05:34 PM
While some of our players may WISH they could get top dollar.....some are kidding themselves and will find themselves staying with the Vikings.

With Rice and others on the offense, it may depend a lot on whether or not they think the offense can succeed next year.....to me, prospects are not that good.

in Rice's case his agent won't want to take a chance so I don't expect to see him in Minny after this season. Also depends on whether the Vikes want to keep said players.
Again Anglo is spot on.

Lets remember that the player gets money two ways.....1) Gauranteed up front and 2) Escalators/incentives.

A WR like El Syd will get alot of his money based on production on the field. No way in hell Rosie lets him stay in MN catching balls from the likes of Joe Webb or one of the rooks coming out this year.

My guess, you will see El Syd go to a team that already has a good QB but needs WR help (I.e. Chargers, Houston) were he will get a nice signing bonus but will get most of his money from incentives. If that doesn't work out he will go to a team that will give him huge dollars up front (Raiders, Wash, Seattle) and a contract that has very little incentives in it.

Marrdro
12-28-2010, 05:39 PM
Good teams stay fired up.

Good teams protect their QB.

Good teams converge on the ball to make the tackle on defense. The ball carrier draws a crowd, wherever he may be.

Good teams seem interested in the game.

Good teams win.
Good stuff. A few more to add to the list....

Good teams don't lead the league in turnovers.
Good teams don't commit stupid penalties.
Good teams score when they get into the redzone.
Good teams are good in all 3 phases (ST's, Offense, Defense).
Good teams win close games.
Good teams are coached well enough to eliminate luck as a major factor in the outcome of football games.

Luck, a crazy bounce or a slippery ball in bad weather, can make the difference in a close game, but it usually averages out. Luck is not going to make a difference when the defensive line does not get pressure and the wide receiver beats the cornerback deep by three yards.

The Vikings are not a well coached team, and I do not see an improvement under Frazier. It may be unfair, because he has to coach with the group Childress brought in, but it is, after all, his defensive scheme that is getting blow out.
Good stuff my friend. Just one question.....

Would you say that the Vikes were well coached last year or lucky? They did get to the NFCC game based on something.

I think our problems this year is based on a couple of things.....

1. Injuries. OL hasn't been together all year.
2. Players not happy.

I still say that if our FO pukes would have signed some players this year would have been completely different.

Marrdro
12-28-2010, 05:42 PM
Why should we think that Rice won't get his most attractive offer from the Vikings?

Will our QB situation drive him and other receivers to other teams?

Because his agent is Rosenwhore whose mininum expectation from a team is most attractive and then wants to drive it up from there.
He'll already be looking around and have a few teams in mind to target and that will be re-inforced by those making the playoffs this year. The QB situation will Rosenwhore's ace in convincing Rice to look elsewhere.
Spot on Anglo.

Add to that there are several on this team that are gonna want top dollar.
Ol Bryzcheapski is pretty smart in that area. A oft injured, although talented WR might not be at the top of the list.

He's not real high on MY list...
I know.

Infidel
12-28-2010, 05:44 PM
My guess, you will see El Syd go to a team that already has a good QB but needs WR help.....

Ummmmm......let's alter that to good QB AND good pass protection.

:D

And then only if they need an injury-prone, fairly slow WR who compensates with good jumping skills and good ability to time those jumps and survive the hard landings.......but has already had hip surgery and is quite a risk.

Teams are not going to be knocking down doors to get Sidney......and that will be the case for a lot of our FAs who have turned out to be not quite as stellar as once predicted.

We'll definitely be getting some of these fallen "stars" back......IF WE EVEN WANT THEM.

jmcdon00
12-28-2010, 05:49 PM
My guess, you will see El Syd go to a team that already has a good QB but needs WR help.....

Ummmmm......let's alter that to good QB AND good pass protection.

:D

And then only if they need an injury-prone, fairly slow WR who compensates with good jumping skills and good ability to time those jumps and survive the hard landings.......but has already had hip surgery and is quite a risk.

Teams are not going to be knocking down doors to get Sidney......and that will be the case for a lot of our FAs who have turned out to be not quite as stellar as once predicted.

We'll definitely be getting some of these fallen "stars" back......IF WE EVEN WANT THEM.
Rice has excellent hands, some of the best in the NFL. He will get a huge multiyear deal from the Vikings.

singersp
12-28-2010, 05:52 PM
Good teams stay fired up.

Good teams protect their QB.

Good teams converge on the ball to make the tackle on defense. The ball carrier draws a crowd, wherever he may be.

Good teams seem interested in the game.

Good teams win.
Good stuff. A few more to add to the list....

Good teams don't lead the league in turnovers.
Good teams don't commit stupid penalties.
Good teams score when they get into the redzone.
Good teams are good in all 3 phases (ST's, Offense, Defense).
Good teams win close games.
Good teams are coached well enough to eliminate luck as a major factor in the outcome of football games.

Luck, a crazy bounce or a slippery ball in bad weather, can make the difference in a close game, but it usually averages out. Luck is not going to make a difference when the defensive line does not get pressure and the wide receiver beats the cornerback deep by three yards.

The Vikings are not a well coached team, and I do not see an improvement under Frazier. It may be unfair, because he has to coach with the group Childress brought in, but it is, after all, his defensive scheme that is getting blow out.
Good stuff my friend. Just one question.....

Would you say that the Vikes were well coached last year or lucky? They did get to the NFCC game based on something.

I think our problems this year is based on a couple of things.....

1. Injuries. OL hasn't been together all year.
2. Players not happy.

I still say that if our FO pukes would have signed some players this year would have been completely different.

LOL!

If memory serves, I was adamant about the Vikings signing OLineman & fixing our OL issues, including coaches, prior to FA.

You were dead set against it & didn't want the Vikings to waste roster spots on lineman. You thought we were set.

jmcdon00
01-03-2011, 05:56 PM
So what happened to go from 12 wins to 6. Bad breaks played a part.

Strength of schedule. In 2009 the Vikings opponents finished the year 113-143, minus the Vikings games and they are 109-131. In 2010 the Vikings opponents finished the year 138-118, minus the VIkings games 128-112. This alone explains a couple losses.

In 2009 we won 2 games we had no business winning. One was against the 49ers with the miracle pass, not saying it was luck, but 99 out of 100 times a team in that situation loses.
The other was against the Ravens where they had a short field goal to win the game and missed it. 80% of the time they make that and win the game. Flat out luck there.

Then you have the 2 home games away from the metrodome. The Vikings are a very good home team and I think in the metrodome we win at least 1 of those 2. In 2009 we were 4-4 on the road and 8-0 at home. This year 4-2 in the dome and 2-8 away from the dome.

Injuries, while we certainly had some last season, this year was a mess. Rice missed most of the year, Favre missed basically 4 games and was limited in others. I account for another loss due to injuries.

That's the 6 wins. 2 based on schedule, 2 based on lucky breaks, 1 based on loss of home games. 1 based on injuries.

edit: Or blame it all on the QB.
2010: 305/505 60.4% 3097yds 14td 26int QBrating 67.7
2009: 377/553 68.2% 4156yds 34td 7int QBrating 107.3
:sick:

Minniman
01-03-2011, 06:53 PM
So what happened to go from 12 wins to 6. Bad breaks played a part.

Strength of schedule. In 2009 the Vikings opponents finished the year 113-143, minus the Vikings games and they are 109-131. In 2010 the Vikings opponents finished the year 138-118, minus the VIkings games 128-112. This alone explains a couple losses.

In 2009 we won 2 games we had no business winning. One was against the 49ers with the miracle pass, not saying it was luck, but 99 out of 100 times a team in that situation loses.
The other was against the Ravens where they had a short field goal to win the game and missed it. 80% of the time they make that and win the game. Flat out luck there.

Then you have the 2 home games away from the metrodome. The Vikings are a very good home team and I think in the metrodome we win at least 1 of those 2. In 2009 we were 4-4 on the road and 8-0 at home. This year 4-2 in the dome and 2-8 away from the dome.

Injuries, while we certainly had some last season, this year was a mess. Rice missed most of the year, Favre missed basically 4 games and was limited in others. I account for another loss due to injuries.

That's the 6 wins. 2 based on schedule, 2 based on lucky breaks, 1 based on loss of home games. 1 based on injuries.

edit: Or blame it all on the QB.
2010: 305/505 60.4% 3097yds 14td 26int QBrating 67.7
2009: 377/553 68.2% 4156yds 34td 7int QBrating 107.3
:sick:
I was going to post something similar, but now I can just add some things to this. My carpels thank you.

Part of the QB rating is coaching and breaks. If one considers injuries as breaks, then the Vikings line had bad breaks. They could not keep the same squad on the field, and that really hurt the continuity of line-play.

That stated, the blocking scheme has been complicated and not to the players strengths since Childress has been here. The offensive scheme did not take into account Favre's immobility with chip, rub, and mass protect efforts, and that often put Favre on the ground.

Favre also had to deal with playcalling that did not fit the WCO Favre had been used to calling. There was a constant struggle between Favre and the Childress/Bevell coaching when it came to gameplanning and play selection. Favre often tried to make plays out of nothing, and the downfield or blocking scheme would not allow it.

People can say what they want about Rice, but not having him available as the go-to receiver deep meant Favre had no escape valve, and that meant more forcing the ball to non-factors like Berrian and to players who could not escape coverage. The best receiver Favre had was Harvin, and he was not available for several games. Is that considered a bad break?

As it was, the officiating cost the Vikings the first Packers game, so I guess that is a bad break too. On the other hand, if Childress did not run a keep-it-close-with-no-room-for-error offense, it could have been moot. the '98 Vikings got bad calls, and they overcame most of the calls with points on the scoreboard.

In the end, a few bad breaks did not expose the Vikings secondary. It did not miss protection on a quarterback that thrives when protected. It did not fail to apply pressure up front on the defensive line or cover zones effectively by linebackers. Bad breaks did not scheme the offense and make the gameplans. It was not a bad break last season when the Vikings had 12 players in the huddle.

Good teams survive bad breaks, better teams make their own breaks, and great teams force the other teams into having bad breaks. That is, most of the time.

Caine
01-03-2011, 10:19 PM
Good teams stay fired up.

Good teams protect their QB.

Good teams converge on the ball to make the tackle on defense. The ball carrier draws a crowd, wherever he may be.

Good teams seem interested in the game.

Good teams win.
Good stuff. A few more to add to the list....

Good teams don't lead the league in turnovers.
Good teams don't commit stupid penalties.
Good teams score when they get into the redzone.
Good teams are good in all 3 phases (ST's, Offense, Defense).
Good teams win close games.
Good teams are coached well enough to eliminate luck as a major factor in the outcome of football games.

Luck, a crazy bounce or a slippery ball in bad weather, can make the difference in a close game, but it usually averages out. Luck is not going to make a difference when the defensive line does not get pressure and the wide receiver beats the cornerback deep by three yards.

The Vikings are not a well coached team, and I do not see an improvement under Frazier. It may be unfair, because he has to coach with the group Childress brought in, but it is, after all, his defensive scheme that is getting blow out.
Good stuff my friend. Just one question.....

Would you say that the Vikes were well coached last year or lucky? They did get to the NFCC game based on something.

I think our problems this year is based on a couple of things.....

1. Injuries. OL hasn't been together all year.
2. Players not happy.

I still say that if our FO pukes would have signed some players this year would have been completely different.

LOL!

If memory serves, I was adamant about the Vikings signing OLineman & fixing our OL issues, including coaches, prior to FA.

You were dead set against it & didn't want the Vikings to waste roster spots on lineman. You thought we were set.

He also said that our Receivers could carry a QB and that Jackson was a viable starter...


... when will you learn not to listen to what Marrdro says unless you have a beer bet with him?

Caine

Marrdro
01-04-2011, 06:16 PM
Good teams stay fired up.

Good teams protect their QB.

Good teams converge on the ball to make the tackle on defense. The ball carrier draws a crowd, wherever he may be.

Good teams seem interested in the game.

Good teams win.
Good stuff. A few more to add to the list....

Good teams don't lead the league in turnovers.
Good teams don't commit stupid penalties.
Good teams score when they get into the redzone.
Good teams are good in all 3 phases (ST's, Offense, Defense).
Good teams win close games.
Good teams are coached well enough to eliminate luck as a major factor in the outcome of football games.

Luck, a crazy bounce or a slippery ball in bad weather, can make the difference in a close game, but it usually averages out. Luck is not going to make a difference when the defensive line does not get pressure and the wide receiver beats the cornerback deep by three yards.

The Vikings are not a well coached team, and I do not see an improvement under Frazier. It may be unfair, because he has to coach with the group Childress brought in, but it is, after all, his defensive scheme that is getting blow out.
Good stuff my friend. Just one question.....

Would you say that the Vikes were well coached last year or lucky? They did get to the NFCC game based on something.

I think our problems this year is based on a couple of things.....

1. Injuries. OL hasn't been together all year.
2. Players not happy.

I still say that if our FO pukes would have signed some players this year would have been completely different.

LOL!

If memory serves, I was adamant about the Vikings signing OLineman & fixing our OL issues, including coaches, prior to FA.

You were dead set against it & didn't want the Vikings to waste roster spots on lineman. You thought we were set.

He also said that our Receivers could carry a QB and that Jackson was a viable starter...


... when will you learn not to listen to what Marrdro says unless you have a beer bet with him?

Caine
And all I heard was how the Noodle would make our WR's and our OL better.

From what I've seen, our recievers can carry a QB. We saw that they could in 2009. Without them, in 2010 we sucked.

And the OL looked pretty damn good protecting young Web. Even with 2 backup G's in there.

On a side note, I still have time on TJ. Like the other two (WR/OL) I suspect I will be vindicated as well and will be enjoying EJ and Caines beer. :P

Marrdro
01-04-2011, 06:18 PM
LOL!

If memory serves, I was adamant about the Vikings signing OLineman & fixing our OL issues, including coaches, prior to FA.

You were dead set against it & didn't want the Vikings to waste roster spots on lineman. You thought we were set.
How was I deadset against it? I've been dead set on getting rid of our OL coaches and have been against Big Mac for about 3 or 4 years.

My stance has been that if you don't get dibs on one of the top flight guys you might as well get a UDFA and bring him in cause the latter round guys are all about that same caliber. Atleast they have been in the last 3 or 4 drafts.

dfosterf
01-04-2011, 06:22 PM
I think the Vikes are fan-friggin'-tastic.

Keep up the good work. :P