PDA

View Full Version : Last place the Vikings want to be is in last



Marrdro
12-22-2010, 05:14 PM
Vikings interim coach Leslie Frazier has refused to say his team has lacked effort in losing its past two games to the Giants and Bears by a combined score of 61-17.

But the reality the Vikings face Wednesday as they begin preparations for Sunday night's game at NFC East-leading Philadelphia is that if their performance doesn't improve they stand to end up in a place this franchise isn't used to finishing.

Last in their division.
Last place the Vikings want to be is in last
(http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/112289444.html?elr=KArksUUU5PhDcbDaEP7i17c3mU)

Just in case you missed it.........


Last in their division.


Sad day my friends.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm torn on Leslie. I don't think he is the man for the job but I think he is the only one that can help keep alot of our players here instead of jumping ship and heading to greener pastures.

Such a shame to watch a young talented team get dismantled.

jmcdon00
12-22-2010, 05:25 PM
I think we'll beat the Lions. To date this season the Vikings have not lost to a team with a losing record, and have not beat a team with a winning record. This team is a lot more average than many give them credit for.

Marrdro
12-22-2010, 05:32 PM
I think we'll beat the Lions. To date this season the Vikings have not lost to a team with a losing record, and have not beat a team with a winning record. This team is a lot more average than many give them credit for.
I think it will help that they lost Vbosh but Suh is a monster. Mix in the nice season Avril is having and it should be a good test for Sully, DeGeare and Cook.

For those that like to watch line play, that is were the game will be the most interesting.

NodakPaul
12-22-2010, 05:47 PM
I posted this once before, but it bears repeating.

If we lose againt Philly (which is likely), then the game against Detroit is a must win to avoid finishing last in the division, regardless of what Detroit does against Miami.

If we are both 5-10 going in, whoever wins will be 3rd
If we are 5-10 and Det is 4-11, if we win we will be 3rd
If we are 5-10 and Det is 4-11, if Det wins, we will both be 5-11, and Det wins on tiebreakers.

Marrdro
12-22-2010, 06:05 PM
I posted this once before, but it bears repeating.

If we lose againt Philly (which is likely), then the game against Detroit is a must win to avoid finishing last in the division, regardless of what Detroit does against Miami.

If we are both 5-10 going in, whoever wins will be 3rd
If we are 5-10 and Det is 4-11, if we win we will be 3rd
If we are 5-10 and Det is 4-11, if Det wins, we will both be 5-11, and Det wins on tiebreakers.
Thanks NP.

1990 was along time ago but it still cuts like a knife. I am still pissed at Denny, but in the end, 1992 proved he was correct in his actions.

Caine
12-22-2010, 06:30 PM
Vikings interim coach Leslie Frazier has refused to say his team has lacked effort in losing its past two games to the Giants and Bears by a combined score of 61-17.

But the reality the Vikings face Wednesday as they begin preparations for Sunday night's game at NFC East-leading Philadelphia is that if their performance doesn't improve they stand to end up in a place this franchise isn't used to finishing.

Last in their division.
Last place the Vikings want to be is in last
(http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/112289444.html?elr=KArksUUU5PhDcbDaEP7i17c3mU)

Just in case you missed it.........


Last in their division.


Sad day my friends.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm torn on Leslie. I don't think he is the man for the job but I think he is the only one that can help keep alot of our players here instead of jumping ship and heading to greener pastures.

Such a shame to watch a young talented team get dismantled.

I haven't budged an inch off of my "Leslie Frazier might make a hreat HC...but not HERE" stance. And it has very little to do with player retention.

FWIW, if we get the right people in charge, the talent will stay.

I think this is who you're refering to:

- Brett Favre, QB, Age 40

- Sidney Rice, WR, Age 24

- Brian Robison, DE, Age 27

- Jayme Mitchell, DE, Age 26

- Pat Williams, DT, Age 37

- Chad Greenway, OLB, Age 27

- Ben Leber, OLB, Age 31

- Erin Henderson, OLB, Age 24 (restricted)

- Husain Abdullah, S, Age 25

- Ryan Longwell, K, Age 36

Of that list, Rice and Greenway are the "must sign" guys...and I'm a bit hesitant with regards to Rice.

Leber is a solid player, but aging, Robison is a nice depth guy, and Longwell has been solid.

Other than that, the rest are role players...guys we can replace.

And if you bring up Edwards or Jackson...I don't care if we keep either of them as niether one has been very impressive.

So, the "talent" issue becomes less about KEEPING it and more about FINDING and DEVELOPING it...

I don't know that Leslie can do that.

Caine

gregair13
12-22-2010, 07:22 PM
Last in division after being one play away from the Superbowl. How the mighty have fallen

Marrdro
12-22-2010, 07:24 PM
Vikings interim coach Leslie Frazier has refused to say his team has lacked effort in losing its past two games to the Giants and Bears by a combined score of 61-17.

But the reality the Vikings face Wednesday as they begin preparations for Sunday night's game at NFC East-leading Philadelphia is that if their performance doesn't improve they stand to end up in a place this franchise isn't used to finishing.

Last in their division.
Last place the Vikings want to be is in last
(http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/112289444.html?elr=KArksUUU5PhDcbDaEP7i17c3mU)

Just in case you missed it.........


Last in their division.


Sad day my friends.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm torn on Leslie. I don't think he is the man for the job but I think he is the only one that can help keep alot of our players here instead of jumping ship and heading to greener pastures.

Such a shame to watch a young talented team get dismantled.

I haven't budged an inch off of my "Leslie Frazier might make a hreat HC...but not HERE" stance. And it has very little to do with player retention.

FWIW, if we get the right people in charge, the talent will stay.

I think this is who you're refering to:

- Brett Favre, QB, Age 40

- Sidney Rice, WR, Age 24

- Brian Robison, DE, Age 27

- Jayme Mitchell, DE, Age 26

- Pat Williams, DT, Age 37

- Chad Greenway, OLB, Age 27

- Ben Leber, OLB, Age 31

- Erin Henderson, OLB, Age 24 (restricted)

- Husain Abdullah, S, Age 25

- Ryan Longwell, K, Age 36

Of that list, Rice and Greenway are the "must sign" guys...and I'm a bit hesitant with regards to Rice.

Leber is a solid player, but aging, Robison is a nice depth guy, and Longwell has been solid.

Other than that, the rest are role players...guys we can replace.

And if you bring up Edwards or Jackson...I don't care if we keep either of them as niether one has been very impressive.

So, the "talent" issue becomes less about KEEPING it and more about FINDING and DEVELOPING it...

I don't know that Leslie can do that.

Caine
So for you its all about the starters huh? I guess that rings true if you look at the OL as they are the only position (other than QB) that doesn't rotate in and out.

Anyways, here is another look at it with the thought in mind of what the player provides to the team as a player and not just a starter....

17 Players can walk at the end of the year. Almost everyone of them are a current starter, have started at one point in thier career.
Brett Favre 40 2011
Tarvaris Jackson 27 2011
Naufahu Tahi 28 2011
Sidney Rice 24 2011
Greg Lewis 30 2011
Ryan Cook 27 2011
Ray Edwards 25 2011
Brian Robison 27 2011
Pat Williams 37 2011
Fred Evans 26 2011
Chad Greenway 27 2011
Ben Leber 31 2011
Erin Henderson 24 2011
Eric Frampton 26 2011
Husain Abdullah 25 2011
Lito Sheppard 29 2011
Ryan Longwell 36 2011

The following 9 players should get deals done at the end of this year leading up to next year.
Letroy Guion 23 2012
E.J. Henderson 30 2012
Jimmy Kennedy 30 2012
John Sullivan 25 2012
Visanthe Shiancoe 30 2012
Jim Kleinsasser 33 2012
Jeff Dugan 29 2012
Heath Farwell 28 2012
Greg Camarillo 28 2012

Thats 26 players (out of your 53 man roster) that expect to have a contract of some sort done this year (excluding a few). The ones that are sitting back in the 2013 and 2014 class will be watching with interest how the organization takes care of its own.

Say what you will with respect to your feelings about how important or unimportant they are to this team but you just can't loose that many players and still think you are going to maintain any kindof consistency on the field of play especially when you mix in how the ones that are left behind might percieve the actions taken by the FO pukes.

Marrdro
12-22-2010, 07:28 PM
Last in division after being one play away from the Superbowl. How the mighty have fallen
I did a thread shortly before the season started that listed how the loosing teams (from thier respective Championship game) did the following year.

It got kindof blown out of proportion by Midg cause I only went back 10 years and refused to mention the hate PUKERS in it, however, the data is still valid.

Its gonna be interesting to see what the Jets do/continue to do this year. So far the Bafooooooon has them still in the hunt but he is working real hard at messing that up. :laugh:

Caine
12-22-2010, 08:36 PM
Vikings interim coach Leslie Frazier has refused to say his team has lacked effort in losing its past two games to the Giants and Bears by a combined score of 61-17.

But the reality the Vikings face Wednesday as they begin preparations for Sunday night's game at NFC East-leading Philadelphia is that if their performance doesn't improve they stand to end up in a place this franchise isn't used to finishing.

Last in their division.
Last place the Vikings want to be is in last
(http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/112289444.html?elr=KArksUUU5PhDcbDaEP7i17c3mU)

Just in case you missed it.........


Last in their division.


Sad day my friends.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm torn on Leslie. I don't think he is the man for the job but I think he is the only one that can help keep alot of our players here instead of jumping ship and heading to greener pastures.

Such a shame to watch a young talented team get dismantled.

I haven't budged an inch off of my "Leslie Frazier might make a hreat HC...but not HERE" stance. And it has very little to do with player retention.

FWIW, if we get the right people in charge, the talent will stay.

I think this is who you're refering to:

- Brett Favre, QB, Age 40

- Sidney Rice, WR, Age 24

- Brian Robison, DE, Age 27

- Jayme Mitchell, DE, Age 26

- Pat Williams, DT, Age 37

- Chad Greenway, OLB, Age 27

- Ben Leber, OLB, Age 31

- Erin Henderson, OLB, Age 24 (restricted)

- Husain Abdullah, S, Age 25

- Ryan Longwell, K, Age 36

Of that list, Rice and Greenway are the "must sign" guys...and I'm a bit hesitant with regards to Rice.

Leber is a solid player, but aging, Robison is a nice depth guy, and Longwell has been solid.

Other than that, the rest are role players...guys we can replace.

And if you bring up Edwards or Jackson...I don't care if we keep either of them as niether one has been very impressive.

So, the "talent" issue becomes less about KEEPING it and more about FINDING and DEVELOPING it...

I don't know that Leslie can do that.

Caine
So for you its all about the starters huh? I guess that rings true if you look at the OL as they are the only position (other than QB) that doesn't rotate in and out.

Anyways, here is another look at it with the thought in mind of what the player provides to the team as a player and not just a starter....

17 Players can walk at the end of the year. Almost everyone of them are a current starter, have started at one point in thier career.
Brett Favre 40 2011
Tarvaris Jackson 27 2011
Naufahu Tahi 28 2011
Sidney Rice 24 2011
Greg Lewis 30 2011
Ryan Cook 27 2011
Ray Edwards 25 2011
Brian Robison 27 2011
Pat Williams 37 2011
Fred Evans 26 2011
Chad Greenway 27 2011
Ben Leber 31 2011
Erin Henderson 24 2011
Eric Frampton 26 2011
Husain Abdullah 25 2011
Lito Sheppard 29 2011
Ryan Longwell 36 2011

The following 9 players should get deals done at the end of this year leading up to next year.
Letroy Guion 23 2012
E.J. Henderson 30 2012
Jimmy Kennedy 30 2012
John Sullivan 25 2012
Visanthe Shiancoe 30 2012
Jim Kleinsasser 33 2012
Jeff Dugan 29 2012
Heath Farwell 28 2012
Greg Camarillo 28 2012

Thats 26 players (out of your 53 man roster) that expect to have a contract of some sort done this year (excluding a few). The ones that are sitting back in the 2013 and 2014 class will be watching with interest how the organization takes care of its own.

Say what you will with respect to your feelings about how important or unimportant they are to this team but you just can't loose that many players and still think you are going to maintain any kindof consistency on the field of play especially when you mix in how the ones that are left behind might percieve the actions taken by the FO pukes.

And for every Free Agent that walks, you have the opportunity to sign another one.

Face it, we're a crap team right now. We can't really blame all of our woes on injury. We have to recognize that the CORE guys, the one's we were all so fired up on, have failed to perform.

That said, there are a handful of guys who haven't failed. Greenway and Leber head that list IMO. Rice is there, but with questions...is he durable enough? Can he reproduce his '09 season?

After that, it becomes a series of guys who can contribute, but the world doesn't stop turning if they're gone. So we sign the ones we can get VALUE from, and let the rest go.

We'll probably keep the DB's, because there's such a shortage of good ones. And Robison is a solid contributor.

But that also depends upon their asking price. Almost no one on that list is a deal breaker/must sign guy except Greenway.

So keeping Leslie on the assumption that he will be able to resign these guys is piling a mistake on top of a mistake.

Caine

Marrdro
12-22-2010, 09:35 PM
Vikings interim coach Leslie Frazier has refused to say his team has lacked effort in losing its past two games to the Giants and Bears by a combined score of 61-17.

But the reality the Vikings face Wednesday as they begin preparations for Sunday night's game at NFC East-leading Philadelphia is that if their performance doesn't improve they stand to end up in a place this franchise isn't used to finishing.

Last in their division.
Last place the Vikings want to be is in last
(http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/112289444.html?elr=KArksUUU5PhDcbDaEP7i17c3mU)

Just in case you missed it.........


Last in their division.


Sad day my friends.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm torn on Leslie. I don't think he is the man for the job but I think he is the only one that can help keep alot of our players here instead of jumping ship and heading to greener pastures.

Such a shame to watch a young talented team get dismantled.

I haven't budged an inch off of my "Leslie Frazier might make a hreat HC...but not HERE" stance. And it has very little to do with player retention.

FWIW, if we get the right people in charge, the talent will stay.

I think this is who you're refering to:

- Brett Favre, QB, Age 40

- Sidney Rice, WR, Age 24

- Brian Robison, DE, Age 27

- Jayme Mitchell, DE, Age 26

- Pat Williams, DT, Age 37

- Chad Greenway, OLB, Age 27

- Ben Leber, OLB, Age 31

- Erin Henderson, OLB, Age 24 (restricted)

- Husain Abdullah, S, Age 25

- Ryan Longwell, K, Age 36

Of that list, Rice and Greenway are the "must sign" guys...and I'm a bit hesitant with regards to Rice.

Leber is a solid player, but aging, Robison is a nice depth guy, and Longwell has been solid.

Other than that, the rest are role players...guys we can replace.

And if you bring up Edwards or Jackson...I don't care if we keep either of them as niether one has been very impressive.

So, the "talent" issue becomes less about KEEPING it and more about FINDING and DEVELOPING it...

I don't know that Leslie can do that.

Caine
So for you its all about the starters huh? I guess that rings true if you look at the OL as they are the only position (other than QB) that doesn't rotate in and out.

Anyways, here is another look at it with the thought in mind of what the player provides to the team as a player and not just a starter....

17 Players can walk at the end of the year. Almost everyone of them are a current starter, have started at one point in thier career.
Brett Favre 40 2011
Tarvaris Jackson 27 2011
Naufahu Tahi 28 2011
Sidney Rice 24 2011
Greg Lewis 30 2011
Ryan Cook 27 2011
Ray Edwards 25 2011
Brian Robison 27 2011
Pat Williams 37 2011
Fred Evans 26 2011
Chad Greenway 27 2011
Ben Leber 31 2011
Erin Henderson 24 2011
Eric Frampton 26 2011
Husain Abdullah 25 2011
Lito Sheppard 29 2011
Ryan Longwell 36 2011

The following 9 players should get deals done at the end of this year leading up to next year.
Letroy Guion 23 2012
E.J. Henderson 30 2012
Jimmy Kennedy 30 2012
John Sullivan 25 2012
Visanthe Shiancoe 30 2012
Jim Kleinsasser 33 2012
Jeff Dugan 29 2012
Heath Farwell 28 2012
Greg Camarillo 28 2012

Thats 26 players (out of your 53 man roster) that expect to have a contract of some sort done this year (excluding a few). The ones that are sitting back in the 2013 and 2014 class will be watching with interest how the organization takes care of its own.

Say what you will with respect to your feelings about how important or unimportant they are to this team but you just can't loose that many players and still think you are going to maintain any kindof consistency on the field of play especially when you mix in how the ones that are left behind might percieve the actions taken by the FO pukes.

And for every Free Agent that walks, you have the opportunity to sign another one.

Face it, we're a crap team right now. We can't really blame all of our woes on injury. We have to recognize that the CORE guys, the one's we were all so fired up on, have failed to perform.

I hear ya and agree, however, I feel that two things happen when you see a team have a mass exodus like this...

1. You loose the team chemistry and consistency associated with the time those players spent getting to know each other.
2. Teams will overpay and wind up with just a few quality FA's. Those FA's will also contribute to the inconsistency because they don't know the system or the players they are now working with.

Shanc is a prime example of that. It isn't like he found talent. He always had it. He just needed to figure things out.

Will we have a 53 man roster? Sure, but we won't have the consistency if we were to retain all but a select few. Teams like the Steelers and Pats let that select few go, promote from within which keeps them consistent.

We are not only going to loose alot of good players, we are also going to loose a few we would normally promote from within. (if that makes sense)



That said, there are a handful of guys who haven't failed. Greenway and Leber head that list IMO. Rice is there, but with questions...is he durable enough? Can he reproduce his '09 season?
But will they stay? I like to think that there is still a bit of loyalty out there, however, I am a realist. Chads, Syds, Bens agents are going to advise them to go were they will be able to meet the escalators that will be in thier contracts.

Teams that are inconsistent aren't really conduscive to meeting those incentives.

I really really really am worried about how this organization will be percieved by the agents representing not only the players on our roster but players out there that we might want to come join the roster.


After that, it becomes a series of guys who can contribute, but the world doesn't stop turning if they're gone. So we sign the ones we can get VALUE from, and let the rest go.

We'll probably keep the DB's, because there's such a shortage of good ones. And Robison is a solid contributor.

But that also depends upon their asking price. Almost no one on that list is a deal breaker/must sign guy except Greenway.

So keeping Leslie on the assumption that he will be able to resign these guys is piling a mistake on top of a mistake.

Caine
Good stuff and I agree, but in the end it isn't what we want to keep, its gonna be who of them will want to stay.

I think its pretty evident that Edwards will leave. Thats ok cause we have a backup that looks ready. El Syds move to get his surgery later rather than sooner is an indicator that I think his agent is advising him to move on. I think Chad will be loyal. Again, I might be a bit naive in that regard. Lineman are short, I bet Cook moves on as well. If nothing else he has proven to be a good swing man. Abdullah came on strong this year and could garner a nice check, etc etc etc.

I know you don't see the talent the way I do, but I think its there and other teams are just waiting to snatch it up. (Sad crying emoticon)

Caine
12-22-2010, 09:55 PM
And for every Free Agent that walks, you have the opportunity to sign another one.

Face it, we're a crap team right now. We can't really blame all of our woes on injury. We have to recognize that the CORE guys, the one's we were all so fired up on, have failed to perform.

I hear ya and agree, however, I feel that two things happen when you see a team have a mass exodus like this...

1. You loose the team chemistry and consistency associated with the time those players spent getting to know each other.
2. Teams will overpay and wind up with just a few quality FA's. Those FA's will also contribute to the inconsistency because they don't know the system or the players they are now working with.

Shanc is a prime example of that. It isn't like he found talent. He always had it. He just needed to figure things out.

Will we have a 53 man roster? Sure, but we won't have the consistency if we were to retain all but a select few. Teams like the Steelers and Pats let that select few go, promote from within which keeps them consistent.

We are not only going to loose alot of good players, we are also going to loose a few we would normally promote from within. (if that makes sense)



That said, there are a handful of guys who haven't failed. Greenway and Leber head that list IMO. Rice is there, but with questions...is he durable enough? Can he reproduce his '09 season?
But will they stay? I like to think that there is still a bit of loyalty out there, however, I am a realist. Chads, Syds, Bens agents are going to advise them to go were they will be able to meet the escalators that will be in thier contracts.

Teams that are inconsistent aren't really conduscive to meeting those incentives.

I really really really am worried about how this organization will be percieved by the agents representing not only the players on our roster but players out there that we might want to come join the roster.


After that, it becomes a series of guys who can contribute, but the world doesn't stop turning if they're gone. So we sign the ones we can get VALUE from, and let the rest go.

We'll probably keep the DB's, because there's such a shortage of good ones. And Robison is a solid contributor.

But that also depends upon their asking price. Almost no one on that list is a deal breaker/must sign guy except Greenway.

So keeping Leslie on the assumption that he will be able to resign these guys is piling a mistake on top of a mistake.

Caine
Good stuff and I agree, but in the end it isn't what we want to keep, its gonna be who of them will want to stay.

I think its pretty evident that Edwards will leave. Thats ok cause we have a backup that looks ready. El Syds move to get his surgery later rather than sooner is an indicator that I think his agent is advising him to move on. I think Chad will be loyal. Again, I might be a bit naive in that regard. Lineman are short, I bet Cook moves on as well. If nothing else he has proven to be a good swing man. Abdullah came on strong this year and could garner a nice check, etc etc etc.

I know you don't see the talent the way I do, but I think its there and other teams are just waiting to snatch it up. (Sad crying emoticon)

You talk about chemistry...but where was it all season? Our team came back virtually INTACT from a 12-4 season that heartbreakingly ended in New Orleans at teh NFC Championship...and proceeded to suck royally. Chemistry couldn't have been the problem...maybe it was talent?

My point is that while I agree that many teams DO over pay in FA, we don't have to follow that model. Whomever our new HC is will have to find his core guys and build around them. Greenway is a great one to build around. So is Peterson. Rice? Not so much. Harvin? Not so much.

Next season will hurt, most likely. I do NOT look for a quick turnaround on being a Superbowl caliber team. I think it will take a few years to repair the holes AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW...


...but a lot of factors remain undefined. The primary one is WHO the new HC will be...and until we answer THAT question and find out what scheme he's going to run, everything else is moot.

Caine

Infidel
12-22-2010, 10:27 PM
You talk about chemistry...but where was it all season? Our team came back virtually INTACT from a 12-4 season that heartbreakingly ended in New Orleans at teh NFC Championship...and proceeded to suck royally. Chemistry couldn't have been the problem...maybe it was talent?

The problems of that final game in New Orleans came back in spades......Favre was AGAIN successfully targeted for destruction.

The key problem was that Favre got hurt starting with the first game due to poor pass protection and sheer bad luck.

More bad luck.....receivers were hurt and Harvin was out with migraines.

So receiver/QB practice suffered on both ends.

They were reluctant to do slants because of this lack of practice.

Timing was off, the offense was too complex and receivers ran the wrong way at the same time the OL was screwing up.

Our coach was not only unable to deal with it....he made it worse.

Chemistry is going to suffer in that atmosphere.

Some folks are going to quit or at least dog it a bit.....because they get discouraged.

Our conditioning was not what it should have been.

A mix of bad things.....not a perfect storm, but perfect enough to ruin a season.

It's quite likely that things will go better, not worse, next year........if the QB situation is resolved in a satisfactory manner and we can pick up a couple of O-Linemen.

ILLvike
12-23-2010, 12:46 AM
Vikings interim coach Leslie Frazier has refused to say his team has lacked effort in losing its past two games to the Giants and Bears by a combined score of 61-17.

But the reality the Vikings face Wednesday as they begin preparations for Sunday night's game at NFC East-leading Philadelphia is that if their performance doesn't improve they stand to end up in a place this franchise isn't used to finishing.

Last in their division.
Last place the Vikings want to be is in last
(http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/112289444.html?elr=KArksUUU5PhDcbDaEP7i17c3mU)

Just in case you missed it.........


Last in their division.


Sad day my friends.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm torn on Leslie. I don't think he is the man for the job but I think he is the only one that can help keep alot of our players here instead of jumping ship and heading to greener pastures.

Such a shame to watch a young talented team get dismantled.

I haven't budged an inch off of my "Leslie Frazier might make a hreat HC...but not HERE" stance. And it has very little to do with player retention.

FWIW, if we get the right people in charge, the talent will stay.

I think this is who you're refering to:

- Brett Favre, QB, Age 40

- Sidney Rice, WR, Age 24

- Brian Robison, DE, Age 27

- Jayme Mitchell, DE, Age 26

- Pat Williams, DT, Age 37

- Chad Greenway, OLB, Age 27

- Ben Leber, OLB, Age 31

- Erin Henderson, OLB, Age 24 (restricted)

- Husain Abdullah, S, Age 25

- Ryan Longwell, K, Age 36

Of that list, Rice and Greenway are the "must sign" guys...and I'm a bit hesitant with regards to Rice.

Leber is a solid player, but aging, Robison is a nice depth guy, and Longwell has been solid.

Other than that, the rest are role players...guys we can replace.

And if you bring up Edwards or Jackson...I don't care if we keep either of them as niether one has been very impressive.

So, the "talent" issue becomes less about KEEPING it and more about FINDING and DEVELOPING it...

I don't know that Leslie can do that.

Caine
So for you its all about the starters huh? I guess that rings true if you look at the OL as they are the only position (other than QB) that doesn't rotate in and out.

Anyways, here is another look at it with the thought in mind of what the player provides to the team as a player and not just a starter....



Thats 26 players (out of your 53 man roster) that expect to have a contract of some sort done this year (excluding a few). The ones that are sitting back in the 2013 and 2014 class will be watching with interest how the organization takes care of its own.

Say what you will with respect to your feelings about how important or unimportant they are to this team but you just can't loose that many players and still think you are going to maintain any kindof consistency on the field of play especially when you mix in how the ones that are left behind might percieve the actions taken by the FO pukes.

Didn't we trade Mitchell months ago?

Otherwise- I don't think this list is really as painful as you make it sound, yeah, theres some good players there, but nothing irreplaceable...

17 Players can walk at the end of the year. Almost everyone of them are a current starter, have started at one point in thier career.
Brett Favre 40 2011

This one has been beat to death, I'll leave it alone

Tarvaris Jackson 27 2011

Talent or not, he has struggled on the field historically, and has alienated half of the fanbase. Also, likely easily replaceable thru FA or the draft.

Naufahu Tahi 28 2011

absolutely worthless... letting Richardson go in favor of him was one of the worst personnel moves that ol' baldy made.

Sidney Rice 24 2011

An excellent athlete, and I really like him being a Viking, but compare the Vikings with and without him this year, and its pretty obvious that he is a player we could possibly move on from.

Greg Lewis 30 2011

Yeah, right. Interchangeable part. I'd rather have a 4th/5th WR that is a young guy just getting into the league, than a older journeyman like Lewis

Ryan Cook 27 2011

Actually, one of the guys I would most dislike losing. He is never going to be great but he provides good, versatile depth on the line, he can play all five positions.

Ray Edwards 25 2011

Lots of talk- what has he done? more importantly, what has he done that we couldn't get out of Robison or a cheaper guy?

Brian Robison 27 2011

I really like Robison, I think he could start for most teams in this league. For that reason alone, I don't think they can keep him and Edwards.

Pat Williams 37 2011

Older than dirt- whether he comes back or not, his replacement should be on the roster next year (Guion??)

Fred Evans 26 2011

Another interchangeable part. It would be nice to keep him, but if thay cant, they can get the same role out of any number of DT's.

Chad Greenway 27 2011

Probably the best player on this list: should be the primary guy they try to retain over the offseason.

Ben Leber 31 2011

very solid guy, would be a great one to keep. that said, there will be a good handful of linebackers, either on the roster, in FA, or in the draft who can step into his role.

Erin Henderson 24 2011

Would like to keep him, has potential, but is currently just a special teamer

Eric Frampton 26 2011

Solid special team player, decent backup, but we need to get a decent safety as a priority this offseason, since Madon't is clearly not cutting it. Frampton might be the guy that gets left out to open the roster spot.

Husain Abdullah 25 2011

Seems to be turning it, lots of potential. I think he stays.

Lito Sheppard 29 2011

hahahahaha... so glad he is on this list

Ryan Longwell 36 2011

Yeah, I don't see many situations where he doesn't stay

The following 9 players should get deals done at the end of this year leading up to next year.
Letroy Guion 23 2012

DT of the future?? maybe. Worth keeping?? definitely.

E.J. Henderson 30 2012

Two major season ending injuries, and he will be 32 by the time a new contract takes effect. Perhaps a short term deal, but probably all he should get.

Jimmy Kennedy 30 2012

interchangeable part.

John Sullivan 25 2012

Lets see how he develops. Honestly he MAY be a guy who becomes a great NFL lineman for the next ten years, and he may become an injury prone backup who fades into obscurity. a lot depends on who the new coach is, his approach to the line, and his faith in sully.

Visanthe Shiancoe 30 2012

Yeah, where has he been this year? plus, he isn't getting much younger.

Jim Kleinsasser 33 2012

If he will stay in the same role he is now (why not?) he will probably stay on the team. Its like having a 6th lineman in there. Cut Tahi and put sauce in at FB haha

Jeff Dugan 29 2012

good player to have, but interchangeable...

Heath Farwell 28 2012

ST stud. or what passes for one on this team. probably not going to go anywhere

Greg Camarillo 28 2012

Keeper. should be one of our starters next year if anyone with any sense comes in. assuming they don't pick up a better WR. that would essentially give three basic scenarios: Rice, Camarillo, and Harvin in the slot, or Berrian, Camarillo, Harvin (God help us) or Player X, Camarillo, Harvin. obviously best case would be Player X, Rice, Harvin, Camarillo

Purple Floyd
12-23-2010, 04:23 AM
I guess I am ready for a wholesale rebuild and to be honest with you at this point the difference to me between being 3rd or last in the division is that finishing last gives us a higher draft pick and this year I would like us picking as close to the top as possible.

Nothing will be gained by finishing tied or one game ahead of Detroit. OTOH much can be gained if the right player is available when we draft.

I said at the end of last season that we would see a dropoff this season but I never expected it to be this great. OTOH it certainly supports my claim that The team did not have the depth on the roster that some claim they did and it also showed that they were either not very good at finding players to fit "The Scheme" or that they were not that good at developing some of the later round talent that they brought in.

gregair13
12-23-2010, 07:58 AM
Last in division after being one play away from the Superbowl. How the mighty have fallen
I did a thread shortly before the season started that listed how the loosing teams (from thier respective Championship game) did the following year.

It got kindof blown out of proportion by Midg cause I only went back 10 years and refused to mention the hate PUKERS in it, however, the data is still valid.

Its gonna be interesting to see what the Jets do/continue to do this year. So far the Bafooooooon has them still in the hunt but he is working real hard at messing that up. :laugh:
Isn't it more so with the Superbowl loser that does not make it back to the playoffs? 7/9 did not make the playoffs the next year.

What happens to the conference losers? Usually those teams end up ok?

Marrdro
12-23-2010, 02:18 PM
And for every Free Agent that walks, you have the opportunity to sign another one.

Face it, we're a crap team right now. We can't really blame all of our woes on injury. We have to recognize that the CORE guys, the one's we were all so fired up on, have failed to perform.

I hear ya and agree, however, I feel that two things happen when you see a team have a mass exodus like this...

1. You loose the team chemistry and consistency associated with the time those players spent getting to know each other.
2. Teams will overpay and wind up with just a few quality FA's. Those FA's will also contribute to the inconsistency because they don't know the system or the players they are now working with.

Shanc is a prime example of that. It isn't like he found talent. He always had it. He just needed to figure things out.

Will we have a 53 man roster? Sure, but we won't have the consistency if we were to retain all but a select few. Teams like the Steelers and Pats let that select few go, promote from within which keeps them consistent.

We are not only going to loose alot of good players, we are also going to loose a few we would normally promote from within. (if that makes sense)



That said, there are a handful of guys who haven't failed. Greenway and Leber head that list IMO. Rice is there, but with questions...is he durable enough? Can he reproduce his '09 season?
But will they stay? I like to think that there is still a bit of loyalty out there, however, I am a realist. Chads, Syds, Bens agents are going to advise them to go were they will be able to meet the escalators that will be in thier contracts.

Teams that are inconsistent aren't really conduscive to meeting those incentives.

I really really really am worried about how this organization will be percieved by the agents representing not only the players on our roster but players out there that we might want to come join the roster.


After that, it becomes a series of guys who can contribute, but the world doesn't stop turning if they're gone. So we sign the ones we can get VALUE from, and let the rest go.

We'll probably keep the DB's, because there's such a shortage of good ones. And Robison is a solid contributor.

But that also depends upon their asking price. Almost no one on that list is a deal breaker/must sign guy except Greenway.

So keeping Leslie on the assumption that he will be able to resign these guys is piling a mistake on top of a mistake.

Caine
Good stuff and I agree, but in the end it isn't what we want to keep, its gonna be who of them will want to stay.

I think its pretty evident that Edwards will leave. Thats ok cause we have a backup that looks ready. El Syds move to get his surgery later rather than sooner is an indicator that I think his agent is advising him to move on. I think Chad will be loyal. Again, I might be a bit naive in that regard. Lineman are short, I bet Cook moves on as well. If nothing else he has proven to be a good swing man. Abdullah came on strong this year and could garner a nice check, etc etc etc.

I know you don't see the talent the way I do, but I think its there and other teams are just waiting to snatch it up. (Sad crying emoticon)

You talk about chemistry...but where was it all season? Our team came back virtually INTACT from a 12-4 season that heartbreakingly ended in New Orleans at teh NFC Championship...and proceeded to suck royally. Chemistry couldn't have been the problem...maybe it was talent?

My point is that while I agree that many teams DO over pay in FA, we don't have to follow that model. Whomever our new HC is will have to find his core guys and build around them. Greenway is a great one to build around. So is Peterson. Rice? Not so much. Harvin? Not so much.

Next season will hurt, most likely. I do NOT look for a quick turnaround on being a Superbowl caliber team. I think it will take a few years to repair the holes AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW...


...but a lot of factors remain undefined. The primary one is WHO the new HC will be...and until we answer THAT question and find out what scheme he's going to run, everything else is moot.

Caine
The team chemistry went out the window when the FO pukes didn't sign players that needed to be signed and awarded a certain player an extra 4 mil for skipping camp.

Mix in the double standard that we saw as a result of that and whatever chemistry we had the previous year was gone, just like the players who have been taking the season off have been gone.

Again, you take over half of your roster and run them out there with little or no sign that you want them there and they will play like it and it doesn't matter who thier HC is or is gonna be. All they are concerned about is getting through the year and getting the hell out of here to a place that will give them that sense of security.

Marrdro
12-23-2010, 02:19 PM
Last in division after being one play away from the Superbowl. How the mighty have fallen
I did a thread shortly before the season started that listed how the loosing teams (from thier respective Championship game) did the following year.

It got kindof blown out of proportion by Midg cause I only went back 10 years and refused to mention the hate PUKERS in it, however, the data is still valid.

Its gonna be interesting to see what the Jets do/continue to do this year. So far the Bafooooooon has them still in the hunt but he is working real hard at messing that up. :laugh:
Isn't it more so with the Superbowl loser that does not make it back to the playoffs? 7/9 did not make the playoffs the next year.

What happens to the conference losers? Usually those teams end up ok?
Because the Vikes were the Conf looser and not the SB looser I didn't do a thread on that.

The thread was about the conference losers and it wasn't OK.

Marrdro
12-23-2010, 02:22 PM
[quote]
It's quite likely that things will go better, not worse, next year........if the QB situation is resolved in a satisfactory manner and we can pick up a couple of O-Linemen.
Did you look at the list? We need to pick up more than a QB and a couple of OLmen.

Infidel
12-23-2010, 04:28 PM
[quote]
It's quite likely that things will go better, not worse, next year........if the QB situation is resolved in a satisfactory manner and we can pick up a couple of O-Linemen.
Did you look at the list? We need to pick up more than a QB and a couple of OLmen.

First things first.

And I didn't say "Pick up" a QB. I said we need to resolve the QB situation in a satisfactory manner.

That could be a lot more complicated than "Picking up."

Getting rid of Childress was the biggest accomplishment.

I think now that Childress is gone we'll have a respectable season next year with more wins than this year.

Maybe surprise a lot of people.....we still have talent at a lot of positions.....it's just a matter of coaching and staying healthy.

Caine
12-23-2010, 04:45 PM
And for every Free Agent that walks, you have the opportunity to sign another one.

Face it, we're a crap team right now. We can't really blame all of our woes on injury. We have to recognize that the CORE guys, the one's we were all so fired up on, have failed to perform.

I hear ya and agree, however, I feel that two things happen when you see a team have a mass exodus like this...

1. You loose the team chemistry and consistency associated with the time those players spent getting to know each other.
2. Teams will overpay and wind up with just a few quality FA's. Those FA's will also contribute to the inconsistency because they don't know the system or the players they are now working with.

Shanc is a prime example of that. It isn't like he found talent. He always had it. He just needed to figure things out.

Will we have a 53 man roster? Sure, but we won't have the consistency if we were to retain all but a select few. Teams like the Steelers and Pats let that select few go, promote from within which keeps them consistent.

We are not only going to loose alot of good players, we are also going to loose a few we would normally promote from within. (if that makes sense)



That said, there are a handful of guys who haven't failed. Greenway and Leber head that list IMO. Rice is there, but with questions...is he durable enough? Can he reproduce his '09 season?
But will they stay? I like to think that there is still a bit of loyalty out there, however, I am a realist. Chads, Syds, Bens agents are going to advise them to go were they will be able to meet the escalators that will be in thier contracts.

Teams that are inconsistent aren't really conduscive to meeting those incentives.

I really really really am worried about how this organization will be percieved by the agents representing not only the players on our roster but players out there that we might want to come join the roster.


After that, it becomes a series of guys who can contribute, but the world doesn't stop turning if they're gone. So we sign the ones we can get VALUE from, and let the rest go.

We'll probably keep the DB's, because there's such a shortage of good ones. And Robison is a solid contributor.

But that also depends upon their asking price. Almost no one on that list is a deal breaker/must sign guy except Greenway.

So keeping Leslie on the assumption that he will be able to resign these guys is piling a mistake on top of a mistake.

Caine
Good stuff and I agree, but in the end it isn't what we want to keep, its gonna be who of them will want to stay.

I think its pretty evident that Edwards will leave. Thats ok cause we have a backup that looks ready. El Syds move to get his surgery later rather than sooner is an indicator that I think his agent is advising him to move on. I think Chad will be loyal. Again, I might be a bit naive in that regard. Lineman are short, I bet Cook moves on as well. If nothing else he has proven to be a good swing man. Abdullah came on strong this year and could garner a nice check, etc etc etc.

I know you don't see the talent the way I do, but I think its there and other teams are just waiting to snatch it up. (Sad crying emoticon)

You talk about chemistry...but where was it all season? Our team came back virtually INTACT from a 12-4 season that heartbreakingly ended in New Orleans at teh NFC Championship...and proceeded to suck royally. Chemistry couldn't have been the problem...maybe it was talent?

My point is that while I agree that many teams DO over pay in FA, we don't have to follow that model. Whomever our new HC is will have to find his core guys and build around them. Greenway is a great one to build around. So is Peterson. Rice? Not so much. Harvin? Not so much.

Next season will hurt, most likely. I do NOT look for a quick turnaround on being a Superbowl caliber team. I think it will take a few years to repair the holes AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW...


...but a lot of factors remain undefined. The primary one is WHO the new HC will be...and until we answer THAT question and find out what scheme he's going to run, everything else is moot.

Caine
The team chemistry went out the window when the FO pukes didn't sign players that needed to be signed and awarded a certain player an extra 4 mil for skipping camp.

Mix in the double standard that we saw as a result of that and whatever chemistry we had the previous year was gone, just like the players who have been taking the season off have been gone.

Again, you take over half of your roster and run them out there with little or no sign that you want them there and they will play like it and it doesn't matter who thier HC is or is gonna be. All they are concerned about is getting through the year and getting the hell out of here to a place that will give them that sense of security.

I don't see it that way.

If these guys are purely playing for a paycheck, then they have no heart anyway.

Teams that WIN have heart.

Teams that win SUPERBOWLS have heart...unless you're the Pittsburgh Steelers and you have the Officials in your pocket...

Bottom line, I don't think that PROFESSIONAL football players are really going to tank their season because their heading into free agency.

Ask anyone who plays or played football...the BEST way to get hurt is to try NOT getting hurt.

So to say that our teams chemistry was destroyed by failure to dole out contracts is - to me - a smoke screen.

Our team chemistry evaporated when the players forgot that they were a part of the process, and not the center of the universe. Ray Edwards bitching about his contract erodes chemistry...not because of the contract, but because of his continued WHINING. Ray made himself bigger than the TEAM.

Is that the FO's fault? I don't think so. That goes directly on the shoulders of the PLAYERS. Ray got paid more money this season than you and I will likely ever make in our combined lives...why is he bitching?

Chemistry is supposed to transcend those petty elements...but when players start becoming bigger than the TEAM, chemistry fails.

It also doesn't help that Sydney Rice waits to have surgery.

That Percy Harvin keeps getting pasted with migraines.

That Bryant McKinnie sucks.

That the COACH begged a retired QB to come back AGAIN...

We were not a TEAM this season - not on Offense. We were a collection of underperforming individuals.

Defensively...I doubt Ray alone tanked the squad, but he was part of the problem.

But, again, I don't blame the Front Office for that...I blame the PLAYERS. They're supposed to be professional. They're supposed to be motivated by the goal to win championships. And if they're not, if money is their only motivation, then they're not the type of players we need, and CHEMISTRY will be hard to develop with them regardless.

Caine

Marrdro
12-23-2010, 04:51 PM
[quote]
It's quite likely that things will go better, not worse, next year........if the QB situation is resolved in a satisfactory manner and we can pick up a couple of O-Linemen.
Did you look at the list? We need to pick up more than a QB and a couple of OLmen.

First things first.

And I didn't say "Pick up" a QB. I said we need to resolve the QB situation in a satisfactory manner.

That could be a lot more complicated than "Picking up."

Getting rid of Childress was the biggest accomplishment.

I think now that Childress is gone we'll have a respectable season next year with more wins than this year.

Maybe surprise a lot of people.....we still have talent at a lot of positions.....it's just a matter of coaching and staying healthy.
Way to step off the deep end with that one. Heck, even after the Chiller gutted the team we had 6 wins. It isn't like its that hard to do.

The question is, how much talent will we still have after the mass exodus. My guess, we will loose at least 19 players this offseason.

Infidel
12-23-2010, 04:55 PM
I think that's unlikely, even if it does happen it won't make a lot of difference.

Some of the new players will be better than the old players.

Mark_The_Viking
12-23-2010, 04:57 PM
And for every Free Agent that walks, you have the opportunity to sign another one.

Face it, we're a crap team right now. We can't really blame all of our woes on injury. We have to recognize that the CORE guys, the one's we were all so fired up on, have failed to perform.

I hear ya and agree, however, I feel that two things happen when you see a team have a mass exodus like this...

1. You loose the team chemistry and consistency associated with the time those players spent getting to know each other.
2. Teams will overpay and wind up with just a few quality FA's. Those FA's will also contribute to the inconsistency because they don't know the system or the players they are now working with.

Shanc is a prime example of that. It isn't like he found talent. He always had it. He just needed to figure things out.

Will we have a 53 man roster? Sure, but we won't have the consistency if we were to retain all but a select few. Teams like the Steelers and Pats let that select few go, promote from within which keeps them consistent.

We are not only going to loose alot of good players, we are also going to loose a few we would normally promote from within. (if that makes sense)



That said, there are a handful of guys who haven't failed. Greenway and Leber head that list IMO. Rice is there, but with questions...is he durable enough? Can he reproduce his '09 season?
But will they stay? I like to think that there is still a bit of loyalty out there, however, I am a realist. Chads, Syds, Bens agents are going to advise them to go were they will be able to meet the escalators that will be in thier contracts.

Teams that are inconsistent aren't really conduscive to meeting those incentives.

I really really really am worried about how this organization will be percieved by the agents representing not only the players on our roster but players out there that we might want to come join the roster.


After that, it becomes a series of guys who can contribute, but the world doesn't stop turning if they're gone. So we sign the ones we can get VALUE from, and let the rest go.

We'll probably keep the DB's, because there's such a shortage of good ones. And Robison is a solid contributor.

But that also depends upon their asking price. Almost no one on that list is a deal breaker/must sign guy except Greenway.

So keeping Leslie on the assumption that he will be able to resign these guys is piling a mistake on top of a mistake.

Caine
Good stuff and I agree, but in the end it isn't what we want to keep, its gonna be who of them will want to stay.

I think its pretty evident that Edwards will leave. Thats ok cause we have a backup that looks ready. El Syds move to get his surgery later rather than sooner is an indicator that I think his agent is advising him to move on. I think Chad will be loyal. Again, I might be a bit naive in that regard. Lineman are short, I bet Cook moves on as well. If nothing else he has proven to be a good swing man. Abdullah came on strong this year and could garner a nice check, etc etc etc.

I know you don't see the talent the way I do, but I think its there and other teams are just waiting to snatch it up. (Sad crying emoticon)

You talk about chemistry...but where was it all season? Our team came back virtually INTACT from a 12-4 season that heartbreakingly ended in New Orleans at teh NFC Championship...and proceeded to suck royally. Chemistry couldn't have been the problem...maybe it was talent?

My point is that while I agree that many teams DO over pay in FA, we don't have to follow that model. Whomever our new HC is will have to find his core guys and build around them. Greenway is a great one to build around. So is Peterson. Rice? Not so much. Harvin? Not so much.

Next season will hurt, most likely. I do NOT look for a quick turnaround on being a Superbowl caliber team. I think it will take a few years to repair the holes AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW...


...but a lot of factors remain undefined. The primary one is WHO the new HC will be...and until we answer THAT question and find out what scheme he's going to run, everything else is moot.

Caine
The team chemistry went out the window when the FO pukes didn't sign players that needed to be signed and awarded a certain player an extra 4 mil for skipping camp.

Mix in the double standard that we saw as a result of that and whatever chemistry we had the previous year was gone, just like the players who have been taking the season off have been gone.

Again, you take over half of your roster and run them out there with little or no sign that you want them there and they will play like it and it doesn't matter who thier HC is or is gonna be. All they are concerned about is getting through the year and getting the hell out of here to a place that will give them that sense of security.

I don't see it that way.

If these guys are purely playing for a paycheck, then they have no heart anyway.

Teams that WIN have heart.

Teams that win SUPERBOWLS have heart...unless you're the Pittsburgh Steelers and you have the Officials in your pocket...

Bottom line, I don't think that PROFESSIONAL football players are really going to tank their season because their heading into free agency.

Ask anyone who plays or played football...the BEST way to get hurt is to try NOT getting hurt.

So to say that our teams chemistry was destroyed by failure to dole out contracts is - to me - a smoke screen.

Our team chemistry evaporated when the players forgot that they were a part of the process, and not the center of the universe. Ray Edwards bitching about his contract erodes chemistry...not because of the contract, but because of his continued WHINING. Ray made himself bigger than the TEAM.

Is that the FO's fault? I don't think so. That goes directly on the shoulders of the PLAYERS. Ray got paid more money this season than you and I will likely ever make in our combined lives...why is he bitching?

Chemistry is supposed to transcend those petty elements...but when players start becoming bigger than the TEAM, chemistry fails.

It also doesn't help that Sydney Rice waits to have surgery.

That Percy Harvin keeps getting pasted with migraines.

That Bryant McKinnie sucks.

That the COACH begged a retired QB to come back AGAIN...

We were not a TEAM this season - not on Offense. We were a collection of underperforming individuals.

Defensively...I doubt Ray alone tanked the squad, but he was part of the problem.

But, again, I don't blame the Front Office for that...I blame the PLAYERS. They're supposed to be professional. They're supposed to be motivated by the goal to win championships. And if they're not, if money is their only motivation, then they're not the type of players we need, and CHEMISTRY will be hard to develop with them regardless.

Caine

+1

If money drives you then get lost as far asI'm concerned, we need players who leave it on the field week in week out a la Ray Lewis, AP.

The draft will be a very challenging situation for us next year, will we go for a QB? who knows?

Marrdro
12-23-2010, 04:59 PM
I don't see it that way.

If these guys are purely playing for a paycheck, then they have no heart anyway.

Teams that WIN have heart.

Teams that win SUPERBOWLS have heart...unless you're the Pittsburgh Steelers and you have the Officials in your pocket...

Bottom line, I don't think that PROFESSIONAL football players are really going to tank their season because their heading into free agency.

Ask anyone who plays or played football...the BEST way to get hurt is to try NOT getting hurt.

So to say that our teams chemistry was destroyed by failure to dole out contracts is - to me - a smoke screen.

Our team chemistry evaporated when the players forgot that they were a part of the process, and not the center of the universe. Ray Edwards bitching about his contract erodes chemistry...not because of the contract, but because of his continued WHINING. Ray made himself bigger than the TEAM.

Is that the FO's fault? I don't think so. That goes directly on the shoulders of the PLAYERS. Ray got paid more money this season than you and I will likely ever make in our combined lives...why is he bitching?

Chemistry is supposed to transcend those petty elements...but when players start becoming bigger than the TEAM, chemistry fails.

It also doesn't help that Sydney Rice waits to have surgery.

That Percy Harvin keeps getting pasted with migraines.

That Bryant McKinnie sucks.

That the COACH begged a retired QB to come back AGAIN...

We were not a TEAM this season - not on Offense. We were a collection of underperforming individuals.

Defensively...I doubt Ray alone tanked the squad, but he was part of the problem.

But, again, I don't blame the Front Office for that...I blame the PLAYERS. They're supposed to be professional. They're supposed to be motivated by the goal to win championships. And if they're not, if money is their only motivation, then they're not the type of players we need, and CHEMISTRY will be hard to develop with them regardless.

Caine
I think there are very few players who play for anything but a check. I put Chad in that group.

El Syd, Ray, those are two that are here for a check. Time will tell but I think Percy will be in the later group as well. AD, although he has heart, will go get the big bucks as well. Probably be advised by his agent to move onto a team in a bigger market.

In the end, you have to keep them happy for them to play. The only way you do that is to pay them, be consistent with your leadership style so they know what to expect and keep enough talent around to win.

Hate to say it, but heart has very little to do with it my friend. Our team is underperforming, but it doesn't have anything to do with heart. It has everything to do with players protecting themselves so they can cash in were someone will pay them.

Marrdro
12-23-2010, 05:03 PM
I think that's unlikely, even if it does happen it won't make a lot of difference.

Some of the new players will be better than the old players.
Agree. Everson is gonna make us say "Ray who". Guion impresses me more each and every play. We need someone who can play beside him.

Much like Griff, Asher is a gamer who also gets better each game. Jasper is ready to step in as is Erin.

Problem is, those guys are all gonna still make mistakes that will cause us to see inconsistency that you wouldn't see if you had a more seasoned vet on the field.

A team can get by with one or two on each side of the ball, but the numbers we might see next year will be akin to what we saw in 2006 and 2007.

Case in point Griff. Most hated that kid, now when he was finally coming around, he is gone do to injury again. I see Asher and Cook as the same kinds of players.

marstc09
12-23-2010, 05:19 PM
Why wouldn't we want to be in last at this point?

Infidel
12-23-2010, 05:25 PM
There's this aversion to losing to the Lions.

It's degrading.

:)

marstc09
12-23-2010, 06:07 PM
There's this aversion to losing to the Lions.

It's degrading.

:)

Meh Packers lost to them and their fans still think they are Super Bowl bound.

Speaking of Packers fans, where have they been lately. They sure are quiet.

Marrdro
12-23-2010, 06:14 PM
+1

If money drives you then get lost as far asI'm concerned, we need players who leave it on the field week in week out a la Ray Lewis, AP.

Not a big fan of Ray Lewis. I think he should be in jail for murder, or atleast conspiracy, however........

Ray gets paid. I wonder what he would be like if he was getting lowballed by the organization come contrat time.

What will your opinion be of AD if he elects to leave for bigger money?


The draft will be a very challenging situation for us next year, will we go for a QB? who knows?
Agree. I think it will be the most interesting draft from a Vikings organization standpoint than we've seen since we had 2 first rounders in 2007.

Marrdro
12-23-2010, 06:16 PM
Why wouldn't we want to be in last at this point?
Not sure about you, but a loss with a bad record still hurts as bad as a loss with a good record.

marstc09
12-23-2010, 07:33 PM
Why wouldn't we want to be in last at this point?
Not sure about you, but a loss with a bad record still hurts as bad as a loss with a good record.

Not even close.

Caine
12-23-2010, 08:25 PM
+1

If money drives you then get lost as far asI'm concerned, we need players who leave it on the field week in week out a la Ray Lewis, AP.

Not a big fan of Ray Lewis. I think he should be in jail for murder, or atleast conspiracy, however........

Ray gets paid. I wonder what he would be like if he was getting lowballed by the organization come contrat time.

What will your opinion be of AD if he elects to leave for bigger money?


The draft will be a very challenging situation for us next year, will we go for a QB? who knows?
Agree. I think it will be the most interesting draft from a Vikings organization standpoint than we've seen since we had 2 first rounders in 2007.

Haynesworth got paid....and played his ass off.



...oh.....



...wait.....




...no....


I think you are making an invalid assumption by lumping most players into the "Play for pay" category.

While there is some degree of protecting that goes on, most players also realize that if they play that way it will be noticed. That, in turn, will DECREASE their free agent value as OTHER teams will not pay top dollar for a guy who phones it in.

Every guy who failed to perform this season saw his FA stock DROP. Meanwhile, guys who played their asses off (Greenway and Peterson) saw their stock RISE.

And that's what you're not taking into account. There are too many guys like Jared Allen, Antoine Winfield, or Pat Williams who would CALL THEM OUT.

But that didn't happen.

That tells me that guys are not sandbagging...they're just getting out played.

Especially McKinnie.

Caine

Brewtal
12-23-2010, 08:26 PM
If they get the rookie salary cap it may not be so bad.