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View Full Version : Webb or TJ??? What Does Frazier Do?



Infidel
12-14-2010, 06:06 PM
Is Frazier's best move to declare Webb the QB of the future and TJ the backup and give Webb the starts for the rest of the season?

We need to know asap whether or not we need to DRAFT our QB of the future or if we've already got him.

I say if Webb has what it takes to be our franchise QB.....we need to find out now.

ultravikingfan
12-14-2010, 06:08 PM
Future? LOL!

How about the next game.

skum
12-14-2010, 06:11 PM
Is Frazier's best move to declare Webb the QB of the future and TJ the backup and give Webb the starts for the rest of the season?

We need to know asap whether or not we need to DRAFT our QB of the future or if we've already got him.

I say if Webb has what it takes to be our franchise QB.....we need to find out now.

Gotta keep Webb on the roster as the project he is.. but come on.. for the future?, is this thread for real..

If Favre can play, he plays.. if not its Tarvaris..

Marrdro
12-14-2010, 06:14 PM
Why does anyone think we would see anything better from Webb that what we are seeing from any of the other QBs that came out in that class, well, other than Bradford anyways?

We just can't keep running these late round picks out and expecting them to shine as rookies.

NodakPaul
12-14-2010, 06:19 PM
It is a tough decision. Would it be beneficial to put Webb in? Probably not. At least not against Chicago or Philly. Maybe Detroit to get his feet wet and try and gauge him a bit more. But rushing a young QB into a game or games just to see what he has got could have longer term effects on his development.

Also, I realize that I may be in the minority here, but I still want to do everything we can to win these remaining 3 games. And at this point, TJack still gives us a better chance to win than Webb.

If we just roll over and finish the season 5-8, we are going to hemmorage free agents in the offseason. Greenway, Edwards, Rice, etc. There are a lot of talented players who are free agents next year (depending on the status of the CBA of course). Plus we have a coaching issue - Frazier may be our next HC, but we don't know that for sure. I would feel a lot more comfortable if he is able to go 5-1 or 4-2 over his six weeks than 2-4.

If Favre can't play any more this season, which is looking more and more likely, my vote is TJack as the starter. yeah, he sucks. Yeah, he isn't going to be back next year (thank God). But he still gives us a better chance to win, and that is the goal REGARDLESS of our playoff status.

i_bleed_purple
12-14-2010, 06:19 PM
Why does anyone think we would see anything better from Webb that what we are seeing from any of the other QBs that came out in that class, well, other than Bradford anyways?

We just can't keep running these late round picks out and expecting them to shine as rookies.

any change is good change. As long as there's a new face under center, it will keep the masses happy. At least for a week.

NodakPaul
12-14-2010, 06:22 PM
Why does anyone think we would see anything better from Webb that what we are seeing from any of the other QBs that came out in that class, well, other than Bradford anyways?

We just can't keep running these late round picks out and expecting them to shine as rookies.

any change is good change. As long as there's a new face under center, it will keep the masses happy. At least for a week.

A win will keep the masses happy. Or at least a loss that isn't an ass kicking. Tjack still gives a better chance at not getting our ass kicked than Webb.

V4L
12-14-2010, 06:23 PM
Gotta still go Jackson

He hasn't really shown up last 2 weeks.. But I wanna groom a young QB correctly.. Not throw him into the fire against 2 top teams

Favre won't play again most likely.. Jackson has gotta step up

Webb looks promising as an athelete.. Can't say much on what he did last night because I didn't see.. But that is about all the time he should get in a game this year

Marrdro
12-14-2010, 06:23 PM
Why does anyone think we would see anything better from Webb that what we are seeing from any of the other QBs that came out in that class, well, other than Bradford anyways?

We just can't keep running these late round picks out and expecting them to shine as rookies.

any change is good change. As long as there's a new face under center, it will keep the masses happy. At least for a week.
and the masses will see him make bonehead rookie mistakes that they will then hold against him for the rest of his time on the roster.

Again, running these young kids out long before they are ready serves no purpose other than to get them real actual NFL snaps which is impossible to simulate in practice.

Other than that, its all bad especially considering how the masses that are the Vikings fanbase treats thier young QB's.

Infidel
12-14-2010, 06:26 PM
Questions:

What is Webb's role?

Why do we say Webb is not ready?

If we draft a top quality QB, will he be more ready than Webb?

i_bleed_purple
12-14-2010, 06:30 PM
Why does anyone think we would see anything better from Webb that what we are seeing from any of the other QBs that came out in that class, well, other than Bradford anyways?

We just can't keep running these late round picks out and expecting them to shine as rookies.

any change is good change. As long as there's a new face under center, it will keep the masses happy. At least for a week.
and the masses will see him make bonehead rookie mistakes that they will then hold against him for the rest of his time on the roster.

Again, running these young kids out long before they are ready serves no purpose other than to get them real actual NFL snaps which is impossible to simulate in practice.

Other than that, its all bad especially considering how the masses that are the Vikings fanbase treats thier young QB's.

I'm not saying it's the right choice, it's just waht people want.

Marrdro
12-14-2010, 06:31 PM
Why does anyone think we would see anything better from Webb that what we are seeing from any of the other QBs that came out in that class, well, other than Bradford anyways?

We just can't keep running these late round picks out and expecting them to shine as rookies.

any change is good change. As long as there's a new face under center, it will keep the masses happy. At least for a week.

A win will keep the masses happy. Or at least a loss that isn't an ass kicking. Tjack still gives a better chance at not getting our ass kicked than Webb.
I'm worried about the Bores now. Forte is running strong or has show he can behind that improved interior of thier OL.

Our secondary can probably go with Cutler but if we can't stop the run it doesn't matter what QB we have there.

Iggles will run on us, probably worse than the Bores, but probably not as bad as the Giants did.

Next win we see might just be agianst the Lions and I worry about that. Last nights offensive showing sure looked like a few were mailing it in. Can you imagine what it will look like on the 2/11?

NodakPaul
12-14-2010, 06:38 PM
Questions:

What is Webb's role?

Why do we say Webb is not ready?

If we draft a top quality QB, will he be more ready than Webb?

Webb's role has changed three times this season. WR - QB - WR/PR - and now QB again.

And he is not ready because he was a low round draft pick who has been 3rd on the depth chart for mostg of the season, meaning he has NOT been practicing with anything other than the practice squad.

Will a top quality QB be more "ready" than Webb? That question is irrelevant to whether or not we should start Webb now.

Marrdro
12-14-2010, 06:42 PM
Why does anyone think we would see anything better from Webb that what we are seeing from any of the other QBs that came out in that class, well, other than Bradford anyways?

We just can't keep running these late round picks out and expecting them to shine as rookies.

any change is good change. As long as there's a new face under center, it will keep the masses happy. At least for a week.
and the masses will see him make bonehead rookie mistakes that they will then hold against him for the rest of his time on the roster.

Again, running these young kids out long before they are ready serves no purpose other than to get them real actual NFL snaps which is impossible to simulate in practice.

Other than that, its all bad especially considering how the masses that are the Vikings fanbase treats thier young QB's.

I'm not saying it's the right choice, it's just waht people want.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, ......"When an organization starts making football decisions based on fan approval, all is lost".

tastywaves
12-14-2010, 06:42 PM
Why does anyone think we would see anything better from Webb that what we are seeing from any of the other QBs that came out in that class, well, other than Bradford anyways?

We just can't keep running these late round picks out and expecting them to shine as rookies.

any change is good change. As long as there's a new face under center, it will keep the masses happy. At least for a week.

A win will keep the masses happy. Or at least a loss that isn't an ass kicking. Tjack still gives a better chance at not getting our ass kicked than Webb.
I'm worried about the Bores now. Forte is running strong or has show he can behind that improved interior of thier OL.

Our secondary can probably go with Cutler but if we can't stop the run it doesn't matter what QB we have there.

Iggles will run on us, probably worse than the Bores, but probably not as bad as the Giants did.

Next win we see might just be agianst the Lions and I worry about that. Last nights offensive showing sure looked like a few were mailing it in. Can you imagine what it will look like on the 2/11?

Play TJ until he gets hurt, then put in Webb. No way would I declare Webb the starter at this point. We didn't even draft this guy to be a QB. He's nothing but a good athlete at this point.

Marrdro
12-14-2010, 06:47 PM
Questions:

What is Webb's role?

Why do we say Webb is not ready?

If we draft a top quality QB, will he be more ready than Webb?
Webbs role is to learn everything he can learn and try to be as ready as he can be if his number is called, ala last night.

The guys drafted at the top of last years draft class aren't ready and a few of them have not only practiced with the ones, they've actually played against the other teams one's and they still aren't ready. No way Joe is ready. Last time he probably took a snap was with the PS and that probably wasn't at full speed.

I like to think that a kid who has 1 year of NFL coaching is better than any kid drafted and thrown to the wolves the first year. I am starting to change my opinion on that. That is mostly based on watching the cats out there that get continued reps as the starter, regardless of how bad they play, seem to mature a bit faster.

Key note on that is that comment only applies to the franchise guy/guys that are taken in the top 5. All others just keep on sucking.

Infidel
12-14-2010, 06:50 PM
Well, as I see it, we have been wasting a great resource.

Had we kept Sage, Webb could have been solving part of our receiver problem. We lost some close games that might have been won with Webb catching the ball.

Webb is talented enough that he might be vying for rookie of the year as a receiver.

Instead......he's wasted.

Childress painted us into a corner on the QB issue and we need some bold action to shake things up.

i_bleed_purple
12-14-2010, 06:52 PM
Questions:

What is Webb's role?

Why do we say Webb is not ready?

If we draft a top quality QB, will he be more ready than Webb?
Webbs role is to learn everything he can learn and try to be as ready as he can be if his number is called, ala last night.

The guys drafted at the top of last years draft class aren't ready and a few of them have not only practiced with the ones, they've actually played against the other teams one's and they still aren't ready. No way Joe is ready. Last time he probably took a snap was with the PS and that probably wasn't at full speed. You think so? Remember, Favre wasn't practicing at all this week. I'm betting Webb had some reps with at least the second team.


I like to think that a kid who has 1 year of NFL coaching is better than any kid drafted and thrown to the wolves the first year. I am starting to change my opinion on that. That is mostly based on watching the cats out there that get continued reps as the starter, regardless of how bad they play, seem to mature a bit faster.
Depends on the guy I think. It takes the right mindset and the ability to improve. Guys like Peyton manning, or Matt Ryan, joe Flacco, etc. they all started right away. Manning had a brutal season, but he had a brutal team. Ryan and Flacco made mistakes, but they both fought through, and are better for it.

however, some guys you can't do that with. I think TJ is one of those guys. Webb might, or might not as well, we have no idea.



Key note on that is that comment only applies to the franchise guy/guys that are taken in the top 5. All others just keep on sucking.
in which case, disregard the above... ;)

i_bleed_purple
12-14-2010, 06:53 PM
Well, as I see it, we have been wasting a great resource.

Had we kept Sage, Webb could have been solving part of our receiver problem. We lost some close games that might have been won with Webb catching the ball.

Webb is talented enough that he might be vying for rookie of the year as a receiver.

Instead......he's wasted.

I'm sure you are basing that off the large sample of Joe Webb receptions you have seen, correct?

Infidel
12-14-2010, 06:56 PM
Don't have to.

He's got to be an improvement over what we've had in play, so why waste him?

i_bleed_purple
12-14-2010, 07:00 PM
Don't have to.

He's got to be an improvement over what we've had in play,

Again, why?

in College he has 32 receptions for 471 yards and 4 TD's. In Low-level College ball. That's not very impressive.

I fail to see how you think he would make a decent receiver in the NFL?

He was drafted as an athlete, with the intention of playing WR. They decided he would be better at QB than WR. I'd imagine the coaches know alot more than you do about how a player is better suited. THey see him every day, you don't. Unless of course there is something you're not telling us.

Marrdro
12-14-2010, 07:05 PM
Questions:

What is Webb's role?

Why do we say Webb is not ready?

If we draft a top quality QB, will he be more ready than Webb?
Webbs role is to learn everything he can learn and try to be as ready as he can be if his number is called, ala last night.

The guys drafted at the top of last years draft class aren't ready and a few of them have not only practiced with the ones, they've actually played against the other teams one's and they still aren't ready. No way Joe is ready. Last time he probably took a snap was with the PS and that probably wasn't at full speed. You think so? Remember, Favre wasn't practicing at all this week. I'm betting Webb had some reps with at least the second team.

Your probably right. He probaby got as many reps as TJ would have got if the Noodle was practicing.

Now that you think about it, maybe he has been getting a few extra reps, but again, they are in practice and not actually live reps.





I like to think that a kid who has 1 year of NFL coaching is better than any kid drafted and thrown to the wolves the first year. I am starting to change my opinion on that. That is mostly based on watching the cats out there that get continued reps as the starter, regardless of how bad they play, seem to mature a bit faster.
Depends on the guy I think. It takes the right mindset and the ability to improve. Guys like Peyton manning, or Matt Ryan, joe Flacco, etc. they all started right away. Manning had a brutal season, but he had a brutal team. Ryan and Flacco made mistakes, but they both fought through, and are better for it.

however, some guys you can't do that with. I think TJ is one of those guys. Webb might, or might not as well, we have no idea.
Ryan had a drop off last year. Flacco still has his issues. Listening to the commentators last night was very interesting as they talked about how they've tried to expand his role. Sanchez, the one I like to watch of late, seems to be regressing instead of progressing. My guess its because of his HC. Seems he is gonna take a more active role in the Sanchize project. LOL.

In the end, there is no cookie cutter, but I think you can only say that the ones who have had any success are the guys taken at the top of the draft, with a couple of exceptions....ala Rodgers/Flacco with Rodgers really the only true QB that could be considered at the top of his game.




Key note on that is that comment only applies to the franchise guy/guys that are taken in the top 5. All others just keep on sucking.
in which case, disregard the above... ;)
Kindof dovetails us into the good discussions we've been having in the thread on drafting a first rounder. What will fall to us. A Rodgers/Flacco or someone we should pass on like McCoy or Clausen?

By the way, I still don't think its time to call McCoy a bust or anything. Thats a kid with potential who is on a once shitty team that is looking pretty good as the season goes along.

Infidel
12-14-2010, 07:09 PM
Don't have to.

He's got to be an improvement over what we've had in play,

Again, why?


Because he's the best athlete on our team and our receivers have totally sucked all year?

LOL!

NodakPaul
12-14-2010, 07:10 PM
Well, as I see it, we have been wasting a great resource.

Had we kept Sage, Webb could have been solving part of our receiver problem. We lost some close games that might have been won with Webb catching the ball.

Webb is talented enough that he might be vying for rookie of the year as a receiver.

Instead......he's wasted.

Childress painted us into a corner on the QB issue and we need some bold action to shake things up.

Rookie of the year as a WR? Seriously?

I don't even know where to begin with that. Using the same logic, we could have put Cook in at WR instead of CB and he could be vying for rookie of the year. After all, he's played WR in that past.

Except that it doesn't work that way.

Infidel
12-14-2010, 07:14 PM
Except Cook is nowhere near Webb in athletic ability.

If you're gonna talk logic, you should actually use some.

i_bleed_purple
12-14-2010, 07:19 PM
Questions:

What is Webb's role?

Why do we say Webb is not ready?

If we draft a top quality QB, will he be more ready than Webb?
Webbs role is to learn everything he can learn and try to be as ready as he can be if his number is called, ala last night.

The guys drafted at the top of last years draft class aren't ready and a few of them have not only practiced with the ones, they've actually played against the other teams one's and they still aren't ready. No way Joe is ready. Last time he probably took a snap was with the PS and that probably wasn't at full speed. You think so? Remember, Favre wasn't practicing at all this week. I'm betting Webb had some reps with at least the second team.

Your probably right. He probaby got as many reps as TJ would have got if the Noodle was practicing.

Now that you think about it, maybe he has been getting a few extra reps, but again, they are in practice and not actually live reps.





I like to think that a kid who has 1 year of NFL coaching is better than any kid drafted and thrown to the wolves the first year. I am starting to change my opinion on that. That is mostly based on watching the cats out there that get continued reps as the starter, regardless of how bad they play, seem to mature a bit faster.
Depends on the guy I think. It takes the right mindset and the ability to improve. Guys like Peyton manning, or Matt Ryan, joe Flacco, etc. they all started right away. Manning had a brutal season, but he had a brutal team. Ryan and Flacco made mistakes, but they both fought through, and are better for it.

however, some guys you can't do that with. I think TJ is one of those guys. Webb might, or might not as well, we have no idea.

Ryan had a drop off last year.
Yeah, when Turner got hurt for a good portion of the season and he had to carry the team, he dropped off. Shocking. Now that they're balanced, he's playing the best ball of his career


Flacco still has his issues. As does Manning. Poing?


Listening to the commentators last night was very interesting as they talked about how they've tried to expand his role. Sanchez, the one I like to watch of late, seems to be regressing instead of progressing. My guess its because of his HC. Seems he is gonna take a more active role in the Sanchize project. LOL. I still stand by the idea that Sanchez was a huge reach, and will be a bust.


In the end, there is no cookie cutter, but I think you can only say that the ones who have had any success are the guys taken at the top of the draft, with a couple of exceptions....ala Rodgers/Flacco with Rodgers really the only true QB that could be considered at the top of his game.

Rogers is the only recently drafted first round QB who has a team around him. Yes, there's no run game now, and his game reflects that, but when healthy, the Packers can be one of the best teams around. Same to be said about the Falcons and Ravens. Other guys? Well Cutler is still uncertain. He has never really had a team around him. With an offense, he did very well in Denver. Now, with no receivers and a shaky run game, he's questionable in Chicago. This is nothing new. It's why so often high pick QB's seem to suck. Usually its just a bad situation. Look at Stafford. When healthy, he plays alright. Not great, but alright. Problem is, he's not ever healthy for an extended period of time.

Lets look at some mid-first round picks form the past decade.

Chad Pennington. (18th) He's a good QB, but constantly hurt. If healthy, he could be a very good player. Not an elite player, but definitely reliable.

Ramsey. (32) Never really did much
Leftwich(7) Ok starter, but a good backup.
Boller(19) Bust
Roethlisberger(11) If not for the rapes, I think any team would love to have him
Losman(22) Bust
Rodgers(24) franchise player
Campbell(20) Terrible situations his whole career, but so far not very good.
Cutler(11) Franchise player capable, needs some help though
Quinn(22) I guess bust, since they don't want to play him in Denver Has never had an offense though
Flacco(18) Plays very well, will probably be the Ravens QB for many years to come
Freeman(17) With not much help, he actually does surprisingly well.





Key note on that is that comment only applies to the franchise guy/guys that are taken in the top 5. All others just keep on sucking.
in which case, disregard the above... ;)
Kindof dovetails us into the good discussions we've been having in the thread on drafting a first rounder. What will fall to us. A Rodgers/Flacco or someone we should pass on like McCoy or Clausen?[/quote]
Explain again, why should we have passed on McCoy. On the craptacular Browns, he was playing alright. Definitely better than TJ and Favre have been playing. Add to that he's mobile, isn't that what we want? If we drafted him last year, I think we'd be better off, especially since we'd have a QB going into next year.



By the way, I still don't think its time to call McCoy a bust or anything. Thats a kid with potential who is on a once shitty team that is looking pretty good as the season goes along.
damn, got me again.

I'd still like to know why you think we should have passed on him? We got Cook, who hasn't done squat yet, and we got Gerhart. We could have kept our third round pick and gotten McCoy.

i_bleed_purple
12-14-2010, 07:20 PM
Except Cook is nowhere near Webb in athletic ability.


Then Troy Williamson should have been ROY!

Freakout
12-14-2010, 07:25 PM
Come on, Webb is no quarterback of the future. He was drafted initially to be a wide receiver. Brad fucking Childress is the retard that thought he could become a NFL QB.

i_bleed_purple
12-14-2010, 07:29 PM
Come on, Webb is no quarterback of the future. He was drafted initially to be a wide receiver. Brad fucking Childress is the retard that thought he could become a NFL QB.

He was a Quarterback in college, drafted as an athlete. They had to stick a position on him, so they thought try WR first.

Infidel
12-14-2010, 07:31 PM
Memory is failing.

How did we get into this situation?

What did we get for Rosenfels that was so valuable?

NeoVikesTX
12-14-2010, 07:31 PM
Hey don't worry guys. I heard that Culpepper is available. Problem solved!

Infidel
12-14-2010, 08:02 PM
Been there, done that.

jargomcfargo
12-14-2010, 08:23 PM
I would love to see what Webb can do at QB. But not now. Not behind this line or on this current team.
He'll have little chance of success and will likely end up injured.

Brett ended up busted up worse than any season ever, and wasn't successful. TJ isn't looking any better.
It's rediculous to believe that Webb could do better.

I'm good with having him gain a little experience in mop up duty, but that's it.

As far as placing him in as a receiver/returner,how did that work out?
Two plays and he was injured.

Get some good offensive linemen next year, then see what he can do.

He won't be able to do anything much this year, with this line, except get hammered and look bad.

Infidel
12-14-2010, 08:37 PM
The discussion itself may be moot.

The way TJ is going, everything may get dumped on Webb anyhow.

That might result in Webb getting hurt.....or maybe not.

Whatever.....it's foolish to have the best athlete on the team sitting on the bench.

gregair13
12-14-2010, 08:40 PM
Tell them both to suck it and turn Favre into a robot.

Caine
12-14-2010, 08:46 PM
Why does anyone think we would see anything better from Webb that what we are seeing from any of the other QBs that came out in that class, well, other than Bradford anyways?

We just can't keep running these late round picks out and expecting them to shine as rookies.

any change is good change. As long as there's a new face under center, it will keep the masses happy. At least for a week.
and the masses will see him make bonehead rookie mistakes that they will then hold against him for the rest of his time on the roster.

Again, running these young kids out long before they are ready serves no purpose other than to get them real actual NFL snaps which is impossible to simulate in practice.

Other than that, its all bad especially considering how the masses that are the Vikings fanbase treats thier young QB's.

I agree with what you're saying, but not with how you're saying it.

To clarify, we don't blame Jackson for his dumb rookie mistakes from '06 and '07....we blame him for STILL MAKING THEM five years later.

I say start Jackson (if his knee will let him). There's no point in overwhelming Webb right now....he's a project. Treat him as such. Jackson might pull his head out (I doubt it), or maybe he'll show enough that someone will offer league minimum for him to be 2nd/3rd string.

It's not like we're going anywhere this season...

Caine

jargomcfargo
12-14-2010, 08:48 PM
The discussion itself may be moot.

The way TJ is going, everything may get dumped on Webb anyhow.

That might result in Webb getting hurt.....or maybe not.

Whatever.....it's foolish to have the best athlete on the team sitting on the bench.

If you are going to make him anything other than a qb, he should play now.

If you want him to develop as a qb, he would have a much better chance going through off season OTA's and another TC with preseason games.

Putting him in anything but mop up duty now could waste him.

Most all young quarterbacks who are successful early have had pretty good protection. Webb would not have that now.

However, as you said, it will propbably be a moot point after TJ gets injured; and he probably will with this line.

Infidel
12-14-2010, 08:50 PM
Caine said:



It's not like we're going anywhere this season...

Ummmmm.......we're going to Philadelphia.

Is there no way to get out of that?

Infidel
12-14-2010, 08:52 PM
The discussion itself may be moot.

The way TJ is going, everything may get dumped on Webb anyhow.

That might result in Webb getting hurt.....or maybe not.

Whatever.....it's foolish to have the best athlete on the team sitting on the bench.

If you are going to make him anything other than a qb, he should play now.

If you want him to develop as a qb, he would have a much better chance going through off season OTA's and another TC with preseason games.

Putting him in anything but mop up duty now could waste him.

Most all young quarterbacks who are successful early have had pretty good protection. Webb would not have that now.

However, as you said, it will probably be a moot point after TJ gets injured; and he probably will with this line.

Yes.....who knows, TJ may COLLIDE with our O-Line.

:D

Marrdro
12-14-2010, 08:57 PM
Why does anyone think we would see anything better from Webb that what we are seeing from any of the other QBs that came out in that class, well, other than Bradford anyways?

We just can't keep running these late round picks out and expecting them to shine as rookies.

any change is good change. As long as there's a new face under center, it will keep the masses happy. At least for a week.
and the masses will see him make bonehead rookie mistakes that they will then hold against him for the rest of his time on the roster.

Again, running these young kids out long before they are ready serves no purpose other than to get them real actual NFL snaps which is impossible to simulate in practice.

Other than that, its all bad especially considering how the masses that are the Vikings fanbase treats thier young QB's.

I agree with what you're saying, but not with how you're saying it.

To clarify, we don't blame Jackson for his dumb rookie mistakes from '06 and '07....we blame him for STILL MAKING THEM five years later.

I say start Jackson (if his knee will let him). There's no point in overwhelming Webb right now....he's a project. Treat him as such. Jackson might pull his head out (I doubt it), or maybe he'll show enough that someone will offer league minimum for him to be 2nd/3rd string.

It's not like we're going anywhere this season...

Caine
See, with him finally on the bench and in street clothes the Caine I like to discuss with has finally re-emerged......LOL, JK.

Excellent post.

My only hesitation on my support for TJ centers around who we faced this weekend. Even you would agree that what that defense can do to a QB/Offense isn't a fair gauge of how far he has evolved.

Again, things looked reall good on the first few series. Sure the offense didn't sustain drives and didn't put up points, but he was making good decisions and his first down throws were on target and got us into situations we need to be in based on our scheme.

Penalties and eventually his injury, along with that defense were the catalyst for the rest of what we saw as a whole for the offense.

Only thing that was harder to stomach was listening to the two chuckleheads in the booth.

Infidel
12-14-2010, 09:06 PM
Yeah....they're chuckleheads and you're not.

:D

What happened to your story about TJ inspiring the team? I thought they became supermen when he stepped on the field against the Bills?

Oh......he's only good for a one-game inspiration?

Or.....did someone slip him some Kryptonite?

Maybe he was constipated.

:D

i_bleed_purple
12-14-2010, 09:08 PM
Yeah....they're chuckleheads and you're not.

:D

What happened to your story about TJ inspiring the team?

Oh......he's only good for a one-game inspiration?

:D

I'd get ready for Fraizer to get fired soon.

Remember, Wilf told him to start Favre, and Fraizer said no... that kind of non-cooperation will not be tolerated. (Oh Wait, Childress doesn't run the team...)

Marrdro
12-14-2010, 09:16 PM
Yeah....they're chuckleheads and you're not.

:D

What happened to your story about TJ inspiring the team?

Oh......he's only good for a one-game inspiration?

:D

I'd get ready for Fraizer to get fired soon.

Remember, Wilf told him to start Favre, and Fraizer said no... that kind of non-cooperation will not be tolerated. (Oh Wait, Childress doesn't run the team...)
Did you see how the organization was still saying he had a chance to start even though the Noodle was saying he couldn't?

Comeon. Only reason that guy was starting this year because of the draw at the gate. Any other QB that sucked as bad as he did this year would have been benched and ran out of town.

Marrdro
12-14-2010, 09:18 PM
Yeah....they're chuckleheads and you're not.

:D

What happened to your story about TJ inspiring the team? I thought they became supermen when he stepped on the field against the Bills?

Oh......he's only good for a one-game inspiration?

Or.....did someone slip him some Kryptonite?

Maybe he was constipated.

:D
They did. My guess, as to what happened, they all saw the shitty as gameplan the staff came up with and new it was a lost cause.

Alot of them sure mailed it in. Not sure it was because of TJ.

Infidel
12-14-2010, 09:18 PM
Marrdro said:


Did you see how the organization was still saying he had a chance to start even though the Noodle was saying he couldn't?

Comeon. Only reason that guy was starting this year because of the draw at the gate. Any other QB that sucked as bad as he did this year would have been benched and ran out of town.

That's not the same as admitting you were wrong, my friend.

Apparently you haven't figured out how to read between the PR lines from the "organization."

I have.

But keep on cracking me up.

:D

Infidel
12-14-2010, 09:23 PM
Yeah....they're chuckleheads and you're not.

:D

What happened to your story about TJ inspiring the team? I thought they became supermen when he stepped on the field against the Bills?

Oh......he's only good for a one-game inspiration?

Or.....did someone slip him some Kryptonite?

Maybe he was constipated.

:D
They did. My guess, as to what happened, they all saw the shitty as gameplan the staff came up with and new it was a lost cause.

Alot of them sure mailed it in. Not sure it was because of TJ.

Oh....now you're blaming the game plan.

Ok.....now if we'd just had a better "game plan" we would have beaten the Giants with TJ throwing four TDs.

Sure.....why didn't the rest of us think of that?

:D

Marrdro
12-14-2010, 09:25 PM
Yeah....they're chuckleheads and you're not.

:D

What happened to your story about TJ inspiring the team? I thought they became supermen when he stepped on the field against the Bills?

Oh......he's only good for a one-game inspiration?

Or.....did someone slip him some Kryptonite?

Maybe he was constipated.

:D
They did. My guess, as to what happened, they all saw the shitty as gameplan the staff came up with and new it was a lost cause.

Alot of them sure mailed it in. Not sure it was because of TJ.

Oh....now you're blaming the game plan.

Ok.....now if we'd just had a better "game plan" we would have beaten the Giants with TJ throwing four TDs.

Sure.....why didn't the rest of us think of that?

:D
Your flippant replies to football discussion points are so insightfull. Makes me want to hear more.

i_bleed_purple
12-14-2010, 09:27 PM
Yeah....they're chuckleheads and you're not.

:D

What happened to your story about TJ inspiring the team?

Oh......he's only good for a one-game inspiration?

:D

I'd get ready for Fraizer to get fired soon.

Remember, Wilf told him to start Favre, and Fraizer said no... that kind of non-cooperation will not be tolerated. (Oh Wait, Childress doesn't run the team...)
Did you see how the organization was still saying he had a chance to start even though the Noodle was saying he couldn't?
Yes, they said if he's healthy, he'll play. Favre said he didn't think he'll be healthy by then.

Pregame, Favre's hand was purple and numb. Pretty clear indication he wasn't ready to play.


Comeon. Only reason that guy was starting this year because of the draw at the gate. Any other QB that sucked as bad as he did this year would have been benched and ran out of town.
Unless they have Tarvaris Jackson behind him on the depth chart, in which case they have to ride it out... Oh wait, the Jets had a similar problem, and did exactly that.

Infidel
12-14-2010, 09:34 PM
Yeah....they're chuckleheads and you're not.

:D

What happened to your story about TJ inspiring the team? I thought they became supermen when he stepped on the field against the Bills?

Oh......he's only good for a one-game inspiration?

Or.....did someone slip him some Kryptonite?

Maybe he was constipated.

:D
They did. My guess, as to what happened, they all saw the shitty as gameplan the staff came up with and new it was a lost cause.

Alot of them sure mailed it in. Not sure it was because of TJ.

Oh....now you're blaming the game plan.

Ok.....now if we'd just had a better "game plan" we would have beaten the Giants with TJ throwing four TDs.

Sure.....why didn't the rest of us think of that?

:D
Your flippant replies to football discussion points are so insightfull. Makes me want to hear more.

Your discussion points? Like what?

That TJ came in and inspired the team to a great win over the Bills?

LOL!

That TJ's mobility would solve our problems?

LOL!

That TJ could throw a better pass than Favre?

LOL!

That TJ could succeed with our loser O-Line?

LOL!

That Frazier was going to give Favre a token start to keep the streak going?

LOL!

That Favre was going to play against the Giants?

LOL!

You really crack me up, my friend.

Better tend to your spreadsheets.....you may be better at that.

:D

(Does the "spread" refer to spreading BS?)

Marrdro
12-14-2010, 09:37 PM
Yeah....they're chuckleheads and you're not.

:D

What happened to your story about TJ inspiring the team? I thought they became supermen when he stepped on the field against the Bills?

Oh......he's only good for a one-game inspiration?

Or.....did someone slip him some Kryptonite?

Maybe he was constipated.

:D
They did. My guess, as to what happened, they all saw the shitty as gameplan the staff came up with and new it was a lost cause.

Alot of them sure mailed it in. Not sure it was because of TJ.

Oh....now you're blaming the game plan.

Ok.....now if we'd just had a better "game plan" we would have beaten the Giants with TJ throwing four TDs.

Sure.....why didn't the rest of us think of that?

:D
Your flippant replies to football discussion points are so insightfull. Makes me want to hear more.

Your discussion points? Like what?

That TJ came in and inspired the team to a great win over the Bills?

LOL!

That TJ's mobility would solve our problems?

LOL!

That TJ could throw a better pass than Favre?

LOL!

That TJ could succeed with our loser O-Line?

LOL!

That Frazier was going to give Favre a token start to keep the streak going?

LOL!

That Favre was going to play against the Giants?

LOL!

You really crack me up, my friend.

Better tend to your spreadsheets.....you may be better at that.

:D

(Does the "spread" refer to spreading BS?)
Keep trying. Only a few of those are actually my discussion points.

Of course, you get lost when we talk about the simplest of things like telling time and if a QB should move around or not. Heck, you even get confused over who the players really are.

Its OK, Keep trying though. We just don't expect that much out of you when it comes to actual football discussions.

Infidel
12-14-2010, 09:42 PM
Oh.....yeah.

Like when I told you last week that Favre would not be able to play with that shoulder injury....

And you said there was something wrong with my eyes...

That kind of discussion?

:D

Face it Marrdro.....we don't expect anything out of you in actual football discussions.

If you haven't played the game and haven't had any injuries yourself.....how could you have any real perspective?

You don't.

But you are entertaining, my friend.

:D

AngloVike
12-14-2010, 09:53 PM
To answer the original question.. if you want to go with the best option to win then you have to go with TJ. As dire as he is he has the experience that Webb doesn't - along with having taken more reps at QB than Webb will have done.
Thats not to say he's the next franchise QB but with Favre out then he is clearly the best option. From that point of view then Frazier has to go with him even though the results may not be pretty.

Mark_The_Viking
12-14-2010, 10:06 PM
To answer the original question.. if you want to go with the best option to win then you have to go with TJ. As dire as he is he has the experience that Webb doesn't - along with having taken more reps at QB than Webb will have done.
Thats not to say he's the next franchise QB but with Favre out then he is clearly the best option. From that point of view then Frazier has to go with him even though the results may not be pretty.

+1 simple really he doesnt have a choice

rednorsk
12-14-2010, 11:39 PM
#1 Make Leslie Frazier the new permanent Head Couch.
#2 Get a QB, jJackson can't cut it.
#3 Get new help for the offensive and defensive lines. They don't want to play.
#4 Give Coach Frazier the time he needs to rebuild a very weak team.:(

jargomcfargo
12-14-2010, 11:46 PM
#1 Make Leslie Frazier the new permanent Head Couch.
#2 Get a QB, jJackson can't cut it.
#3 Get new help for the offensive and defensive lines. They don't want to play.
#4 Give Coach Frazier the time he needs to rebuild a very weak team.:(

Sounds good. Welcome to the site.

NodakPaul
12-14-2010, 11:48 PM
sigh...

Purple Floyd
12-15-2010, 12:49 AM
Tell them both to suck it and turn Favre into a robot.

You know, that brings up a point. They put "The 6 million Dollar Man" on TV in the 70's and you would think by now they would have had the time to iron things out and have that technology available by now. What the heck is this world coming to?:P

Infidel
12-15-2010, 03:33 AM
Now I hear that they're talking about hiring a QB off the street......some homeless reject who has played QB professionally.

They're also hoping to play Favre....which is pretty crazy thinking.

Here we are......it's come to this: All our QB alternatives are crazy.

Gotta blame Childress for getting us to this place.

STCLOUDSAYSGOVIKES
12-15-2010, 03:47 AM
I heard they are talking to 8 potential QB's to bring in. Most notably Patrick Ramsey formerly of the 'skins.

Infidel
12-15-2010, 03:54 AM
God.....what a mess.

ThorSPL
12-15-2010, 05:34 AM
Future? LOL!

How about the next game.

Technically speaking, that IS the future Ultra :)

i_bleed_purple
12-15-2010, 05:39 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/21083/vikings-encounter-bizarro-world-upon-return

According to Fraizer, we've got no healthy QB's.

The least injured is Webb.
Some QB's were brought in this week, including Patrick Ramsey (Fraizer made a point to mention Culpepper was not one of the QB's)

Who starts depends on who the vet they sign is, and how much of this offense he knows.


When asked if he was looking for a veteran who could start Monday, or one to back up Webb, Frazier said it "probably depends on that guy's awareness of what we do." ....


however, Frazier acknowledged that trotting him out for the first play at Location TBA "wouldn't be the ideal situation."

DiehardVikesFan
12-15-2010, 06:20 AM
Just go Webb. At least it'll be somewhat exciting to watch the ship sink.

AngloVike
12-15-2010, 09:30 AM
Now I hear that they're talking about hiring a QB off the street......some homeless reject who has played QB professionally.

They're also hoping to play Favre....which is pretty crazy thinking.

Here we are......it's come to this: All our QB alternatives are crazy.

Gotta blame Childress for getting us to this place.

we have one of them already, his name is TJ

.............. sorry correct that I though you said hopeless reject my bad :evil:

AngloVike
12-15-2010, 09:41 AM
I heard they are talking to 8 potential QB's to bring in. Most notably Patrick Ramsey formerly of the 'skins.

yep just shows what a great decision it was by Childress to trade Rosenfels at the start of the season. Chalk another one up to the NFL's answer to Homer Simpson

ndnorseman
12-15-2010, 10:59 AM
Just go Webb. At least it'll be somewhat exciting to watch the ship sink.


Agreed.

I ask this: What is the POINT in trying so desperately to win the last 3 games? It's not like we have any shot left at the Playoffs. Webb is the healthiest, or LEAST banged up of our QBs, and he's the only one under contract for next year

Someone mentioned that "mop-up" duty would be best for Webb? What would you call these last 3 GAMES, if not mop-up duty for a horribly sloppy mess of a season?

I agree that it's not normally a good thing to throw a rookie QB against seasoned veteran Defenses...but that's generally because it's been done at the START of a season, and the rookie just isn't ready for the pressure of starting 16 games. Webb would only be doing it for 3 games, with no pressure to pull out a win in any of them (except maybe the Lions). If he does, great...and if he doesn't, no big deal.

Look at it this way...his preseason would basically start 3 games and 8-9 months ahead of schedule (if there's a season at all). If he gets "shaken up" in these 3 games, he has an entire offseason to work out the jitters. So what if the O-line isn't the best for him? Like it's shown itself to be any better for T-Jack or Favre?

What is there to LOSE by finishing out with Webb?

Games - So what? If we lose out, that just means a higher Draft pick.

Players - If they're going to leave, they will. It's not going to be because of who starts these last 3 games.

What is there to GAIN?

Confidence - A good play here and a good series there could do wonders for him...maybe develop into a good drive, which graduates into a good quarter...and so on and so forth. Frazier, Bevell, and Kevin Rogers (QB Coach) would be KEY in this, by not letting him get too discouraged with turnovers, sacks, etc. At this point, it's simply a learning process, or as I said, an extended preseason with nothing on the line.

Experience - If, by the grace of the football gods, we actually DO have a season next year, Webb goes into the preseason already one step ahead of whoever we Draft, and is good competition for whatever FA QB we might bring in.

Zeus
12-15-2010, 03:19 PM
I heard they are talking to 8 potential QB's to bring in. Most notably Patrick Ramsey formerly of the 'skins.

yep just shows what a great decision it was by Childress to trade Rosenfels at the start of the season. Chalk another one up to the NFL's answer to Homer Simpson

Sign Garcia!

=Z=

NodakPaul
12-15-2010, 03:34 PM
Just go Webb. At least it'll be somewhat exciting to watch the ship sink.


Agreed.

I ask this: What is the POINT in trying so desperately to win the last 3 games? It's not like we have any shot left at the Playoffs. Webb is the healthiest, or LEAST banged up of our QBs, and he's the only one under contract for next year

Someone mentioned that "mop-up" duty would be best for Webb? What would you call these last 3 GAMES, if not mop-up duty for a horribly sloppy mess of a season?

I agree that it's not normally a good thing to throw a rookie QB against seasoned veteran Defenses...but that's generally because it's been done at the START of a season, and the rookie just isn't ready for the pressure of starting 16 games. Webb would only be doing it for 3 games, with no pressure to pull out a win in any of them (except maybe the Lions). If he does, great...and if he doesn't, no big deal.

Look at it this way...his preseason would basically start 3 games and 8-9 months ahead of schedule (if there's a season at all). If he gets "shaken up" in these 3 games, he has an entire offseason to work out the jitters. So what if the O-line isn't the best for him? Like it's shown itself to be any better for T-Jack or Favre?

What is there to LOSE by finishing out with Webb?

Games - So what? If we lose out, that just means a higher Draft pick.

Players - If they're going to leave, they will. It's not going to be because of who starts these last 3 games.

What is there to GAIN?

Confidence - A good play here and a good series there could do wonders for him...maybe develop into a good drive, which graduates into a good quarter...and so on and so forth. Frazier, Bevell, and Kevin Rogers (QB Coach) would be KEY in this, by not letting him get too discouraged with turnovers, sacks, etc. At this point, it's simply a learning process, or as I said, an extended preseason with nothing on the line.

Experience - If, by the grace of the football gods, we actually DO have a season next year, Webb goes into the preseason already one step ahead of whoever we Draft, and is good competition for whatever FA QB we might bring in.

Losing the next three game absolutely will have an impact on the free agents. We finish this season 8-8 and we look like a team on the rebound, heading in the right direction (5-1 in the last 6). We finish 5-10 and we are a team in the midst of crisis with an uncertain future. Some, like Edwards will probably be gone anyway. But others like Rice are uncertain - and he will be entertaining some pretty big $$ offers from other teams.

Plus there is the danger of us actually having something in Webb - but forcing him in the game too soon often times has negative impact on the player. Now where have I heard that before? What other young, athletic player with potential was pushed into the starting role for the Vikings before he was ready his rookie year, and is now damaged goods at best? Hmmmmmmm....

You DON'T roll over and give up in the NFL. Frazier certainly isn't going to - these next three games could shape his future as a Vikings coach. What about the players who may retire next year. Do you really think they want to go out with a losing record?

A coach puts the players on the field who give them the best chance to win each and every game. Every game. If he doesn't, then he isn't much of a coach.

vikinggreg
12-15-2010, 03:38 PM
I heard they are talking to 8 potential QB's to bring in. Most notably Patrick Ramsey formerly of the 'skins.

yep just shows what a great decision it was by Childress to trade Rosenfels at the start of the season. Chalk another one up to the NFL's answer to Homer Simpson

Sign Garcia!

=Z=

Just wondering if you saw any of his games with Omaha, I only saw a bit of one myself and his throws were off and he ended up leaving the game due to an injury, this was a game after he had been doing well earlier in the UFL season. From what I saw he just looked old but to be fair I only saw part of one game.

NDVikingFan66
12-15-2010, 04:11 PM
Just go Webb. At least it'll be somewhat exciting to watch the ship sink.


Agreed.

I ask this: What is the POINT in trying so desperately to win the last 3 games? It's not like we have any shot left at the Playoffs. Webb is the healthiest, or LEAST banged up of our QBs, and he's the only one under contract for next year

Someone mentioned that "mop-up" duty would be best for Webb? What would you call these last 3 GAMES, if not mop-up duty for a horribly sloppy mess of a season?

I agree that it's not normally a good thing to throw a rookie QB against seasoned veteran Defenses...but that's generally because it's been done at the START of a season, and the rookie just isn't ready for the pressure of starting 16 games. Webb would only be doing it for 3 games, with no pressure to pull out a win in any of them (except maybe the Lions). If he does, great...and if he doesn't, no big deal.

Look at it this way...his preseason would basically start 3 games and 8-9 months ahead of schedule (if there's a season at all). If he gets "shaken up" in these 3 games, he has an entire offseason to work out the jitters. So what if the O-line isn't the best for him? Like it's shown itself to be any better for T-Jack or Favre?

What is there to LOSE by finishing out with Webb?

Games - So what? If we lose out, that just means a higher Draft pick.

Players - If they're going to leave, they will. It's not going to be because of who starts these last 3 games.

What is there to GAIN?

Confidence - A good play here and a good series there could do wonders for him...maybe develop into a good drive, which graduates into a good quarter...and so on and so forth. Frazier, Bevell, and Kevin Rogers (QB Coach) would be KEY in this, by not letting him get too discouraged with turnovers, sacks, etc. At this point, it's simply a learning process, or as I said, an extended preseason with nothing on the line.

Experience - If, by the grace of the football gods, we actually DO have a season next year, Webb goes into the preseason already one step ahead of whoever we Draft, and is good competition for whatever FA QB we might bring in.

Losing the next three game absolutely will have an impact on the free agents. We finish this season 8-8 and we look like a team on the rebound, heading in the right direction (5-1 in the last 6). We finish 5-10 and we are a team in the midst of crisis with an uncertain future. Some, like Edwards will probably be gone anyway. But others like Rice are uncertain - and he will be entertaining some pretty big $$ offers from other teams.

Plus there is the danger of us actually having something in Webb - but forcing him in the game too soon often times has negative impact on the player. Now where have I heard that before? What other young, athletic player with potential was pushed into the starting role for the Vikings before he was ready his rookie year, and is now damaged goods at best? Hmmmmmmm....

You DON'T roll over and give up in the NFL. Frazier certainly isn't going to - these next three games could shape his future as a Vikings coach. What about the players who may retire next year. Do you really think they want to go out with a losing record?

A coach puts the players on the field who give them the best chance to win each and every game. Every game. If he doesn't, then he isn't much of a coach.

+1

Very well said.

NordicNed
12-15-2010, 04:26 PM
Who to start? Webb or a Broken Chicken Wing?????

Webb gets my vote!

Going back in time, I remember wishing we would go after Vick. That idea sure doesn't sound that bad now, does it?

Infidel
12-15-2010, 04:36 PM
NoDakPaul said:


Plus there is the danger of us actually having something in Webb - but forcing him in the game too soon often times has negative impact on the player.

I'm not quite on board with this line of thinking, although I'm close.

Question: Are you sure that it's "often times?" Or should that statement be "sometimes?" Or maybe "can have a negative impact?"

While Webb is technically a rookie.....he's no virgin.

He has close to a full season in and has played QB in both exhibition and regular season games. He is right now, I assume, practicing with the Ones.

He's also the best athlete on the team.

Webb: Hamstring.
TJ: Turf Toe and ?
Favre: Shoulder and ?

Not realistic to expect Favre.

Management would prefer to force Jackson to play.....if they can't--Webb is our best chance to win.

Certainly better than some cast-off reject unemployed QB coming in cold.

If TJ won't go out there (I sense a constant reluctance in him).....Webb goes with a possible mystery has-been QB as a backup.


Now where have I heard that before? What other young, athletic player with potential was pushed into the starting role for the Vikings before he was ready his rookie year, and is now damaged goods at best?

Then again, maybe there was not much potential anyway?

That's possible.

Infidel
12-15-2010, 04:42 PM
Webb gets my vote!

Going back in time, I remember wishing we would go after Vick. That idea sure doesn't sound that bad now, does it?

Ah, yes.....it sounds pretty darn good.

Could we protect him well enough to keep him healthy?

:)

Zeus
12-15-2010, 04:56 PM
I heard they are talking to 8 potential QB's to bring in. Most notably Patrick Ramsey formerly of the 'skins.

yep just shows what a great decision it was by Childress to trade Rosenfels at the start of the season. Chalk another one up to the NFL's answer to Homer Simpson

Sign Garcia!

Just wondering if you saw any of his games with Omaha, I only saw a bit of one myself and his throws were off and he ended up leaving the game due to an injury, this was a game after he had been doing well earlier in the UFL season. From what I saw he just looked old but to be fair I only saw part of one game.

I saw some of that action, but never really sat down and deep analysis.

The reason I say "Sign Garcia!" is that he should be in reasonable game shape and knows the WCO, all plusses in his favor vs. someone like Patrick Ramsey.

=Z=

Zeus
12-15-2010, 04:58 PM
He's also the best athlete on the team.


You keep saying this. What proof do you have that he's a better athlete than, say, Percy Harvin?

=Z=

NordicNed
12-15-2010, 05:06 PM
+1 Now that I can agree 100% with. Minus the migrains, I'de say that Harvin is most likely one of our most gifted athlete's on this team, right after Fat Pat that is :laugh:

Infidel
12-15-2010, 05:51 PM
He's also the best athlete on the team.


You keep saying this. What proof do you have that he's a better athlete than, say, Percy Harvin?

=Z=

He shows up.

Harvin often doesn't.

But, if it soothes your indignation, he and Percy are very close in athletic ability.

;)

12purplepride28
12-15-2010, 06:33 PM
He's also the best athlete on the team.


You keep saying this. What proof do you have that he's a better athlete than, say, Percy Harvin?

=Z=

The coaches have been quoted saying it. The commentators have said it. People who know what they're talking about (infidel excluded) have said it.

Infidel
12-15-2010, 07:11 PM
Yes, being that I have no clue what I'm talking about--I always go by what people who DO know what they are talking about say.

:D

Anyhow, it's looking more and more like Webb will play.

Frankly, in the conditions projected for the game.....only a rookie would be dumb enough and enthusiastic enough to go out there and try to play QB.

;)

I have a feeling that TJ has looked at his backup role as a good job where he got paid a lot of money for not doing much.

Frankly, I don't think he's got the guts for a normal game.....much less a brutal outing like Monday night will be. I'm really thinking he will resist and say his turf toe hurts.

Infidel
12-15-2010, 08:20 PM
Webb runs for TD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlOEzJ4sTRQ

Infidel
12-15-2010, 08:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo_WpHkrWd4

NodakPaul
12-15-2010, 08:46 PM
If videos of preseason play in the late quarters of the second and fourth preseason games actually meant anything, then Webb would be a star.

But they dont.

Infidel
12-15-2010, 08:56 PM
Oh, you're wrong to portray them as meaning nothing.

They show that he's damned fast and elusive.

You can't teach that.

And it does mean something.

;)

NodakPaul
12-15-2010, 08:58 PM
Oh, you're wrong to portray them as meaning nothing.

They show that he's damned fast and elusive.

You can't teach that.

And it does mean something.

;)

He is damn fast and elusive compared to the other people on the field - many of which were cut before the season started.

I agree, he is a good athlete. I have seen him in person (although only once) and I am impressed with both his size and quickness. That doesn't make him a good QB though, and it certainly doesn't make him the best choice for Monday Night.

Infidel
12-15-2010, 09:01 PM
That may all be moot.

He may be the only choice.

And thanks for acknowledging that the clips I was nice enough to find and post do mean something.

:D

tastywaves
12-15-2010, 09:01 PM
How the hell did he get turf toe? Is he the first QB in history to get it?

So much for being a good backup QB, you can't even count on him for that role.

Getting rid of Sage was a bad decision on many levels.

NodakPaul
12-15-2010, 09:02 PM
How the hell did he get turf toe? Is he the first QB in history to get it?

So much for being a good backup QB, you can't even count on him for that role.

Getting rid of Sage was a bad decision on many levels.

That last sentance is so very, very true.

Infidel
12-15-2010, 09:04 PM
We may see Camarillo.

Who knows, he might shine.

AngloVike
12-15-2010, 09:05 PM
How the hell did he get turf toe? Is he the first QB in history to get it?

So much for being a good backup QB, you can't even count on him for that role.

Getting rid of Sage was a bad decision on many levels.
be fair, given the amount of three and outs he was running then turf toe was an occupational hazard.

i_bleed_purple
12-15-2010, 09:11 PM
How the hell did he get turf toe? Is he the first QB in history to get it?

So much for being a good backup QB, you can't even count on him for that role.

Getting rid of Sage was a bad decision on many levels.

Turf Toe is just a hyperextended toe. Shouldn't really affect a pocket passing QB if it's on his left foot, I don't know which one TJ hurt.

As for Sage, I'll agree. Remember, we also lost Reynaud too in that trade.

AngloVike
12-15-2010, 09:15 PM
How the hell did he get turf toe? Is he the first QB in history to get it?

So much for being a good backup QB, you can't even count on him for that role.

Getting rid of Sage was a bad decision on many levels.

Turf Toe is just a hyperextended toe. Shouldn't really affect a pocket passing QB if it's on his left foot, I don't know which one TJ hurt.


maybe its on the foot he uses when he does his little bunny hops when passing, in which case that will seriously undermine his passing mechanics..

i_bleed_purple
12-15-2010, 09:22 PM
How the hell did he get turf toe? Is he the first QB in history to get it?

So much for being a good backup QB, you can't even count on him for that role.

Getting rid of Sage was a bad decision on many levels.

Turf Toe is just a hyperextended toe. Shouldn't really affect a pocket passing QB if it's on his left foot, I don't know which one TJ hurt.


maybe its on the foot he uses when he does his little bunny hops when passing, in which case that will seriously undermine his passing mechanics..

or improve, as he can't do all those stupid jump-passes.

slavinator
12-15-2010, 10:40 PM
Isnt Testaverde or Kosar or Jeff George still available??????LOL!

Infidel
12-15-2010, 10:43 PM
http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/blogs/111952849.html?elr=KArks:DCiUBcy7hUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUoD3aPc:_27EQU

slavinator
12-15-2010, 10:52 PM
Wow! Patrick Ramsey, at least its an upgrade, I think.

marstc09
12-15-2010, 11:20 PM
I heard they are talking to 8 potential QB's to bring in. Most notably Patrick Ramsey formerly of the 'skins.

yep just shows what a great decision it was by Childress to trade Rosenfels at the start of the season. Chalk another one up to the NFL's answer to Homer Simpson

Sign Garcia!

Just wondering if you saw any of his games with Omaha, I only saw a bit of one myself and his throws were off and he ended up leaving the game due to an injury, this was a game after he had been doing well earlier in the UFL season. From what I saw he just looked old but to be fair I only saw part of one game.

I saw some of that action, but never really sat down and deep analysis.

The reason I say "Sign Garcia!" is that he should be in reasonable game shape and knows the WCO, all plusses in his favor vs. someone like Patrick Ramsey.

=Z=

I have always liked him. I wanted him a few years ago.

tastywaves
12-15-2010, 11:34 PM
Wow! Patrick Ramsey, at least its an upgrade, I think.

If I was Patrick, I would want a lot of dough to play outside in MN on a mid-December night and get smacked around by the Bears.

NodakPaul
12-15-2010, 11:37 PM
Wow! Patrick Ramsey, at least its an upgrade, I think.

If I was Patrick, I would want a lot of dough to play outside in MN on a mid-December night and get smacked around by the Bears.

But the question is, who will be more ready. The rookie who has been with the team all year but has probably never taken a first team or second team snap in practice, or the journeyman who hasn't played significantly since 2007 and is new to the team.

Crap, it is actually a tough call IMHO.

tastywaves
12-15-2010, 11:45 PM
Wow! Patrick Ramsey, at least its an upgrade, I think.

If I was Patrick, I would want a lot of dough to play outside in MN on a mid-December night and get smacked around by the Bears.

But the question is, who will be more ready. The rookie who has been with the team all year but has probably never taken a first team or second team snap in practice, or the journeyman who hasn't played significantly since 2007 and is new to the team.

Crap, it is actually a tough call IMHO.

I agree it's a tough call, and maybe he is being brought in as the backup. I would not be surprised if both of them get considerable playing time whether by injury or performance.

Infidel
12-16-2010, 04:03 AM
I would not be surprised at ANYTHING that happened.

This has been a season of insanity.

Camarillo waits for the call.

battleaxe4cheese
12-16-2010, 04:26 AM
BREAKING NEWS! Fran the man Tarkenton was just spotted loading up on bengay and smelling salts at a local sports store and was overheard mumbling something along the lines of "it's my time to shine again Favre this, Favre that, #@$% Favre! "

Purple Floyd
12-16-2010, 04:41 AM
I think we just line up peterson and harving in the backfield and take turns snapping directly to both of them. Cut out the middle man.

Infidel
12-16-2010, 04:53 AM
I think we just line up Peterson and harvin in the backfield and take turns snapping directly to both of them. Cut out the middle man.

Actually, that's kind of a good idea.

Eliminate the skinny receivers and load up with beefy blockers, too.

We will rumble up and down the frozen field.

Brilliant!

ndnorseman
12-16-2010, 06:45 AM
Just go Webb. At least it'll be somewhat exciting to watch the ship sink.


Agreed.

I ask this: What is the POINT in trying so desperately to win the last 3 games? It's not like we have any shot left at the Playoffs. Webb is the healthiest, or LEAST banged up of our QBs, and he's the only one under contract for next year

Someone mentioned that "mop-up" duty would be best for Webb? What would you call these last 3 GAMES, if not mop-up duty for a horribly sloppy mess of a season?

I agree that it's not normally a good thing to throw a rookie QB against seasoned veteran Defenses...but that's generally because it's been done at the START of a season, and the rookie just isn't ready for the pressure of starting 16 games. Webb would only be doing it for 3 games, with no pressure to pull out a win in any of them (except maybe the Lions). If he does, great...and if he doesn't, no big deal.

Look at it this way...his preseason would basically start 3 games and 8-9 months ahead of schedule (if there's a season at all). If he gets "shaken up" in these 3 games, he has an entire offseason to work out the jitters. So what if the O-line isn't the best for him? Like it's shown itself to be any better for T-Jack or Favre?

What is there to LOSE by finishing out with Webb?

Games - So what? If we lose out, that just means a higher Draft pick.

Players - If they're going to leave, they will. It's not going to be because of who starts these last 3 games.

What is there to GAIN?

Confidence - A good play here and a good series there could do wonders for him...maybe develop into a good drive, which graduates into a good quarter...and so on and so forth. Frazier, Bevell, and Kevin Rogers (QB Coach) would be KEY in this, by not letting him get too discouraged with turnovers, sacks, etc. At this point, it's simply a learning process, or as I said, an extended preseason with nothing on the line.

Experience - If, by the grace of the football gods, we actually DO have a season next year, Webb goes into the preseason already one step ahead of whoever we Draft, and is good competition for whatever FA QB we might bring in.

Losing the next three game absolutely will have an impact on the free agents. We finish this season 8-8 and we look like a team on the rebound, heading in the right direction (5-1 in the last 6). We finish 5-10 and we are a team in the midst of crisis with an uncertain future. Some, like Edwards will probably be gone anyway. But others like Rice are uncertain - and he will be entertaining some pretty big $$ offers from other teams.

Okay...which of our other 2 broken QBs do you think has a chance of pulling out wins against Chicago and Philadelphia? Physically broken #4? Or mentally broken #7? OR...should we maybe start the ONE QB who is more than likely going to be the ONLY one we see in a Vikings uniform AFTER this year?

Plus there is the danger of us actually having something in Webb - but forcing him in the game too soon often times has negative impact on the player. Now where have I heard that before? What other young, athletic player with potential was pushed into the starting role for the Vikings before he was ready his rookie year, and is now damaged goods at best? Hmmmmmmm....

The difference with that "other young, athletic player with potential", is that he had the TEAM put on his shoulders before he was ready. NOTHING is being put on Webb's shoulders other than pads for these last 3 games.

You DON'T roll over and give up in the NFL. Frazier certainly isn't going to - these next three games could shape his future as a Vikings coach. What about the players who may retire next year. Do you really think they want to go out with a losing record?

So...if Webb starts the last 3 games, it's a foregone conclusion, no matter what, that they'll ALL be losses...?

A coach puts the players on the field who give them the best chance to win each and every game. Every game. If he doesn't, then he isn't much of a coach.

Again.....which of our other 2 broken QBs do you think has a chance of pulling out wins against Chicago and Philadelphia? Physically broken #4? Or mentally broken #7?

NodakPaul
12-16-2010, 03:54 PM
Just go Webb. At least it'll be somewhat exciting to watch the ship sink.


Agreed.

I ask this: What is the POINT in trying so desperately to win the last 3 games? It's not like we have any shot left at the Playoffs. Webb is the healthiest, or LEAST banged up of our QBs, and he's the only one under contract for next year

Someone mentioned that "mop-up" duty would be best for Webb? What would you call these last 3 GAMES, if not mop-up duty for a horribly sloppy mess of a season?

I agree that it's not normally a good thing to throw a rookie QB against seasoned veteran Defenses...but that's generally because it's been done at the START of a season, and the rookie just isn't ready for the pressure of starting 16 games. Webb would only be doing it for 3 games, with no pressure to pull out a win in any of them (except maybe the Lions). If he does, great...and if he doesn't, no big deal.

Look at it this way...his preseason would basically start 3 games and 8-9 months ahead of schedule (if there's a season at all). If he gets "shaken up" in these 3 games, he has an entire offseason to work out the jitters. So what if the O-line isn't the best for him? Like it's shown itself to be any better for T-Jack or Favre?

What is there to LOSE by finishing out with Webb?

Games - So what? If we lose out, that just means a higher Draft pick.

Players - If they're going to leave, they will. It's not going to be because of who starts these last 3 games.

What is there to GAIN?

Confidence - A good play here and a good series there could do wonders for him...maybe develop into a good drive, which graduates into a good quarter...and so on and so forth. Frazier, Bevell, and Kevin Rogers (QB Coach) would be KEY in this, by not letting him get too discouraged with turnovers, sacks, etc. At this point, it's simply a learning process, or as I said, an extended preseason with nothing on the line.

Experience - If, by the grace of the football gods, we actually DO have a season next year, Webb goes into the preseason already one step ahead of whoever we Draft, and is good competition for whatever FA QB we might bring in.

Losing the next three game absolutely will have an impact on the free agents. We finish this season 8-8 and we look like a team on the rebound, heading in the right direction (5-1 in the last 6). We finish 5-10 and we are a team in the midst of crisis with an uncertain future. Some, like Edwards will probably be gone anyway. But others like Rice are uncertain - and he will be entertaining some pretty big $$ offers from other teams.

Okay...which of our other 2 broken QBs do you think has a chance of pulling out wins against Chicago and Philadelphia? Physically broken #4? Or mentally broken #7? OR...should we maybe start the ONE QB who is more than likely going to be the ONLY one we see in a Vikings uniform AFTER this year?

Plus there is the danger of us actually having something in Webb - but forcing him in the game too soon often times has negative impact on the player. Now where have I heard that before? What other young, athletic player with potential was pushed into the starting role for the Vikings before he was ready his rookie year, and is now damaged goods at best? Hmmmmmmm....

The difference with that "other young, athletic player with potential", is that he had the TEAM put on his shoulders before he was ready. NOTHING is being put on Webb's shoulders other than pads for these last 3 games.

You DON'T roll over and give up in the NFL. Frazier certainly isn't going to - these next three games could shape his future as a Vikings coach. What about the players who may retire next year. Do you really think they want to go out with a losing record?

So...if Webb starts the last 3 games, it's a foregone conclusion, no matter what, that they'll ALL be losses...?

A coach puts the players on the field who give them the best chance to win each and every game. Every game. If he doesn't, then he isn't much of a coach.

Again.....which of our other 2 broken QBs do you think has a chance of pulling out wins against Chicago and Philadelphia? Physically broken #4? Or mentally broken #7?

The mentally broken #7. I think I was pretty clear about that. A healthy TJack, regardless of how bad, is still a better choice than a healthy Webb at this point. Although it appears to be moot because Jackson's toe is apparently going to keep him out.

To address your other questions, no, TJack didn't have the team put on his shoulders before he was ready. His first start was in Week 16 of 2006 against GB, when we were 6-8. And people were acting the exact same way about TJack then as they are acting about Webb now. And it is as big of a mistake with Webb now as it was with TJack then.

Are we guaranteed to lose the next three with Webb at QB? Of course not. Hell, there is the chance that he could win the next three, or we could lose the next 3 with TJack or Favre at QB. But when a coach is deciding which players to put on the field, he needs to decide which players give him the BEST chance to win. Out of Favre, TJack, and Webb, the ONLY time that Webb gives us a better chance to win right now is if the other two are injured. Now that we have Ramsey, it wouldn't even surprise me if Ramsey gets the start. He's taken about the same number of snaps with the first team in practice asn Webb has (zero).

NodakPaul
12-16-2010, 03:59 PM
Turf Toe is just a hyperextended toe. Shouldn't really affect a pocket passing QB if it's on his left foot, I don't know which one TJ hurt.


I've had turf toe, and there is more to it that just that. For me, the nerve just under the joint of the big toe was inflamed. It was very painful to walk, and running was damn near impossible. And I think once it has happened, you are more sensative to it in the future. Even now, many, many years after my playing days, I can step on something wrong or touch that pressure point and send jolts of pain up my entire leg. Think of it like your funny bone multiplied 1000 times.

Infidel
12-16-2010, 04:19 PM
Well, TJ could be ruined for good, then....if his turf toe is on the severe end of the spectrum.

Shall we mourn or rejoice?

12purplepride28
12-16-2010, 05:02 PM
Turf Toe is just a hyperextended toe. Shouldn't really affect a pocket passing QB if it's on his left foot, I don't know which one TJ hurt.

Think of it like your funny bone multiplied 1000 times.

I did, and it's fucking hilarious!!! Ok, worst joke ever. Couldn't help it.

i_bleed_purple
12-16-2010, 11:48 PM
Here's an interview with Fraizer about possibly starting Webb. From the sounds of things, he's not worried about sending Webb out there, and they're discussed it already. Both are excited to see what he can do, so it's very possible now that Webb might be the guy for Monday.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/minnesota-vikings/09000d5d81cf348b/Frazier-confident-in-Webb

i_bleed_purple
12-16-2010, 11:50 PM
Turf Toe is just a hyperextended toe. Shouldn't really affect a pocket passing QB if it's on his left foot, I don't know which one TJ hurt.


I've had turf toe, and there is more to it that just that. For me, the nerve just under the joint of the big toe was inflamed. It was very painful to walk, and running was damn near impossible. And I think once it has happened, you are more sensative to it in the future. Even now, many, many years after my playing days, I can step on something wrong or touch that pressure point and send jolts of pain up my entire leg. Think of it like your funny bone multiplied 1000 times.

I can't speak for it first hand, but I'd imagine it is much like any injury, you can get bad Turf Toe, or light turf toe. However, I'm willing to bet you didn't go through the recovery process that NFL players go through. I'm betting TJ being on IR is to make room for Ramsey, not so much that his injury is season ending.

i_bleed_purple
12-19-2010, 05:55 AM
Webb is officially the starter on Monday!

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81cffe15/article/favre-nogo-so-vikings-will-start-rookie-qb-webb-vs-bears?module=HP_headlines

Brewtal
12-19-2010, 09:27 AM
What are the chances we will find the next Tom Brady?


Yeah, I know. I will dream that it is true untill proven wrong.

i_bleed_purple
12-19-2010, 10:08 AM
What are the chances we will find the next Tom Brady?


Yeah, I know. I will dream that it is true untill proven wrong.

A really really fast Tom Brady?

i_bleed_purple
12-19-2010, 10:14 AM
Maybe we'll screw with the Bears and bust out a triple option offense with Webb, AP and Harvin :D

Brewtal
12-19-2010, 02:33 PM
What are the chances we will find the next Tom Brady?


Yeah, I know. I will dream that it is true untill proven wrong.

A really really fast Tom Brady?

And can jump.

ThorSPL
12-19-2010, 03:02 PM
Maybe we'll screw with the Bears and bust out a triple option offense with Webb, AP and Harvin :D

We've got nothing to lose.....

Erinnn
12-19-2010, 06:30 PM
Everyone can stop worrying.

Source: Vikings to sign R.J. Archer off practice squad (http://1500espn.com/sportswire/Vikings_to_sign_RJ_Archer_off_practice_squad121910)

Webb, Ramsey, Archer. I'll be surprised if the Bears even bother getting on a plane today.

Brewtal
12-19-2010, 07:19 PM
Everyone can stop worrying.

Source: Vikings to sign R.J. Archer off practice squad (http://1500espn.com/sportswire/Vikings_to_sign_RJ_Archer_off_practice_squad121910)

Webb, Ramsey, Archer. I'll be surprised if the Bears even bother getting on a plane today.

Thank you, I can sleep tonight now.

singersp
12-19-2010, 07:23 PM
Webb is officially the starter on Monday!

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81cffe15/article/favre-nogo-so-vikings-will-start-rookie-qb-webb-vs-bears?module=HP_headlines

So with all the so-called "experts" we have here, that can judge QB's future by looking at a game, we should know by Tuesday if Webb is our future or not. :side:

Infidel
12-19-2010, 07:26 PM
Real experts don't work that way.

:)

singersp
12-19-2010, 07:36 PM
Real experts don't work that way.

:)

Shhhhhh! Don't tell them that.

Freakout
12-20-2010, 12:38 AM
Webb is officially the starter on Monday!

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81cffe15/article/favre-nogo-so-vikings-will-start-rookie-qb-webb-vs-bears?module=HP_headlines

So with all the so-called "experts" we have here, that can judge QB's future by looking at a game, we should know by Tuesday if Webb is our future or not. :side:

Well if all his passes are 10 yards off target.

i_bleed_purple
12-20-2010, 12:40 AM
Webb is officially the starter on Monday!

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81cffe15/article/favre-nogo-so-vikings-will-start-rookie-qb-webb-vs-bears?module=HP_headlines

So with all the so-called "experts" we have here, that can judge QB's future by looking at a game, we should know by Tuesday if Webb is our future or not. :side:

Well if all his passes are 10 yards off target.

lol that he thinks people here judge him off a single game.

He has 5 years of examples of why he can't be a good player.

However, if Webb shows even the slightest bit of confidence tomorrow, he's already a better option than TJ.

singersp
12-20-2010, 01:51 AM
Webb is officially the starter on Monday!

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81cffe15/article/favre-nogo-so-vikings-will-start-rookie-qb-webb-vs-bears?module=HP_headlines

So with all the so-called "experts" we have here, that can judge QB's future by looking at a game, we should know by Tuesday if Webb is our future or not. :side:

Well if all his passes are 10 yards off target.

lol that he thinks people here judge him off a single game.

He has 5 years of examples of why he can't be a good player.

However, if Webb shows even the slightest bit of confidence tomorrow, he's already a better option than TJ.

Lol! We had members here doing exactly just that back in 2006.

i_bleed_purple
12-20-2010, 02:35 AM
Webb is officially the starter on Monday!

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81cffe15/article/favre-nogo-so-vikings-will-start-rookie-qb-webb-vs-bears?module=HP_headlines

So with all the so-called "experts" we have here, that can judge QB's future by looking at a game, we should know by Tuesday if Webb is our future or not. :side:

Well if all his passes are 10 yards off target.

lol that he thinks people here judge him off a single game.

He has 5 years of examples of why he can't be a good player.

However, if Webb shows even the slightest bit of confidence tomorrow, he's already a better option than TJ.

Lol! We had members here doing exactly just that back in 2006.

Yes, some, for the record, I was in the "Start TJ" crew back then.

Purple Floyd
12-20-2010, 02:51 AM
Real experts don't work that way.

:)

Shhhhhh! Don't tell them that.

lmao.

maybe we can call ziggy and invoke the singer rules and convince him we need to give webb a decade of uninterrupted starts before we make a decision on whether he might pan out. that should go over well.

Caine
12-20-2010, 03:24 PM
Webb is officially the starter on Monday!

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81cffe15/article/favre-nogo-so-vikings-will-start-rookie-qb-webb-vs-bears?module=HP_headlines

So with all the so-called "experts" we have here, that can judge QB's future by looking at a game, we should know by Tuesday if Webb is our future or not. :side:

What about the "experts" that said that Jackson should wait in '06? Then said the same thing in '07? Then, after a disastrous '08 said "Enough, he's not going to make it".

THOSE experts appear to have been dead on. (And those experts resent the implication that nothing Jackson could have done would have changed their minds...that is completely untrue).

Well, I'm saying that if we play Webb, consider it a learning experience. This guy is a project guy and not really ready to lead an NFL franchise. Our best bet is to look for what he needs the most work on - not to tear him down, but so that the next coaching staff has an idea of where to start. Sort of like we did with Jackson in '06.

I don't honestly expect too much from Webb...but he may surprise me.

Caine

NodakPaul
12-20-2010, 03:39 PM
Webb is officially the starter on Monday!

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81cffe15/article/favre-nogo-so-vikings-will-start-rookie-qb-webb-vs-bears?module=HP_headlines

So with all the so-called "experts" we have here, that can judge QB's future by looking at a game, we should know by Tuesday if Webb is our future or not. :side:

Well if all his passes are 10 yards off target.

lol that he thinks people here judge him off a single game.

He has 5 years of examples of why he can't be a good player.

However, if Webb shows even the slightest bit of confidence tomorrow, he's already a better option than TJ.

Lol! We had members here doing exactly just that back in 2006.

Yes, some, for the record, I was in the "Start TJ" crew back then.

I was in the don't start TJ it is too early crew in 2006.
In 2007, I was in the wow, maybe he can really be the answer crew.
At the start of 2008 I was in the OK, he has looked good and bad, but it is time fro him to step up and show us what he can do.
By the end of 2008 I was of the opinion that he would make a good backup, but would never be starter. And that has held true ever since.

I didn't form my opinion on TJack over one game. It formed over two solid seasons when he was the "starter". The fact that he didn't play all 32 games in those two seasons due to injury or performance helped form that opinion. Games like the one against the Giants just solidified it.

tastywaves
12-20-2010, 04:54 PM
Between Webb, Ramsey and Archer, how many of them do you think will see playing time tonight?

Webb and Ramsey have to be high probability whether by injury or performance. What a way to get your first start, blizzard in MN against a hungry Bears team. In some ways, it puts him in a good position to play loose...if it's possible to be loose in zero degree wind chill.

Just hang on to the rock boys and hope the reckless Cutler shows up.

Infidel
12-20-2010, 05:06 PM
The whole team can benefit from Favre's 20 years of experience playing in bad weather.

A lot of good can come from Frazier and Favre getting their heads together on the game plan.

Webb seems like a level-headed kid and I'm sure he will listen and benefit.

Playing in cold and snow requires special strategies to execute normal plays.

Favre knows all the tricks.

This could work to our advantage.....the Bears looked awful in the last snow game they played.

jargomcfargo
12-20-2010, 05:14 PM
Between Webb, Ramsey and Archer, how many of them do you think will see playing time tonight?

Webb and Ramsey have to be high probability whether by injury or performance. What a way to get your first start, blizzard in MN against a hungry Bears team. In some ways, it puts him in a good position to play loose...if it's possible to be loose in zero degree wind chill.

Just hang on to the rock boys and hope the reckless Cutler shows up.

The temp. is going to be around 22 at game time and actually go up a few degrees as the game goes on.
The wind is forcast to be about 12 mph out of the southeast and diminish as the evening progresses.
This is actually pretty darn good weather for an outdoor game in Mpls. this time of year.
If the snow continues it should be quite entertaining.

One simple strategy for running in these conditions is to run flat footed. Might be a little slower but will slip and fall far less. Hope someone suggests they try it.

tastywaves
12-20-2010, 05:27 PM
Between Webb, Ramsey and Archer, how many of them do you think will see playing time tonight?

Webb and Ramsey have to be high probability whether by injury or performance. What a way to get your first start, blizzard in MN against a hungry Bears team. In some ways, it puts him in a good position to play loose...if it's possible to be loose in zero degree wind chill.

Just hang on to the rock boys and hope the reckless Cutler shows up.

The temp. is going to be around 22 at game time and actually go up a few degrees as the game goes on.
The wind is forcast to be about 12 mph out of the southeast and diminish as the evening progresses.
This is actually pretty darn good weather for an outdoor game in Mpls. this time of year.
If the snow continues it should be quite entertaining.

One simple strategy for running in these conditions is to run flat footed. Might be a little slower but will slip and fall far less. Hope someone suggests they try it.

That's not so bad temperature-wise. I agree it should be an entertaining game to watch, I'm looking forward to it.

Last time we played the Bears', footing played a big factor. Hopefully our guys have been getting adjusted a bit and do a better job of keeping their feet under their bodies. The receivers in particular need to learn how to stay on their feet and not emphasize the plant so much.

Infidel
12-20-2010, 05:34 PM
I remember O.J. Simpson was a master of slippery conditions and had some great rushing games in snow.

He was a master at making just a slight head fake to make the defensive player slip while he kept his feet.

Hope AP is watching his films.

Somehow I don't see AP being that subtle.

Marrdro
12-20-2010, 07:41 PM
Webb is officially the starter on Monday!

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81cffe15/article/favre-nogo-so-vikings-will-start-rookie-qb-webb-vs-bears?module=HP_headlines

So with all the so-called "experts" we have here, that can judge QB's future by looking at a game, we should know by Tuesday if Webb is our future or not. :side:

What about the "experts" that said that Jackson should wait in '06? Then said the same thing in '07? Then, after a disastrous '08 said "Enough, he's not going to make it".

THOSE experts appear to have been dead on. (And those experts resent the implication that nothing Jackson could have done would have changed their minds...that is completely untrue).

Well, I'm saying that if we play Webb, consider it a learning experience. This guy is a project guy and not really ready to lead an NFL franchise. Our best bet is to look for what he needs the most work on - not to tear him down, but so that the next coaching staff has an idea of where to start. Sort of like we did with Jackson in '06.

I don't honestly expect too much from Webb...but he may surprise me.

Caine
What amazes me is that people on internet chat sites actually use the words "Posters" and "Experts" in the same sentence.

I am starting to think that a few of you actually are starting to believe you are experts instead of a few chuckleheads with keyboards, access to the internet and a site to voice your opinions.

.......snicker.......Experts..........giggle.

Marrdro
12-20-2010, 07:44 PM
The whole team can benefit from Favre's 20 years of experience playing in bad weather.

A lot of good can come from Frazier and Favre getting their heads together on the game plan.

Webb seems like a level-headed kid and I'm sure he will listen and benefit.

Playing in cold and snow requires special strategies to execute normal plays.

Favre knows all the tricks.

This could work to our advantage.....the Bears looked awful in the last snow game they played.
AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA (Remembering the cold 2007 NFFC championship game)

.......deep breath.........I loved his tricks in that game.......

AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA (Remembering the Noodle trying to stick hand warmers in his face mask during the 2007 game).

What a trick..............

AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Marrdro
12-20-2010, 07:45 PM
Between Webb, Ramsey and Archer, how many of them do you think will see playing time tonight?

Webb and Ramsey have to be high probability whether by injury or performance. What a way to get your first start, blizzard in MN against a hungry Bears team. In some ways, it puts him in a good position to play loose...if it's possible to be loose in zero degree wind chill.

Just hang on to the rock boys and hope the reckless Cutler shows up.
Ramsey/Archer???????? WTF. I haven't caught up on all my reading, but is that who they brought in? WOW.

NodakPaul
12-20-2010, 07:59 PM
Between Webb, Ramsey and Archer, how many of them do you think will see playing time tonight?

Webb and Ramsey have to be high probability whether by injury or performance. What a way to get your first start, blizzard in MN against a hungry Bears team. In some ways, it puts him in a good position to play loose...if it's possible to be loose in zero degree wind chill.

Just hang on to the rock boys and hope the reckless Cutler shows up.
Ramsey/Archer???????? WTF. I haven't caught up on all my reading, but is that who they brought in? WOW.

Patrick Ramsey was signed last week Marr... where you been? :) RJ Archer was signed off from teh practice squad today, and they put Hutch on IR to make room.

tastywaves
12-20-2010, 08:05 PM
Between Webb, Ramsey and Archer, how many of them do you think will see playing time tonight?

Webb and Ramsey have to be high probability whether by injury or performance. What a way to get your first start, blizzard in MN against a hungry Bears team. In some ways, it puts him in a good position to play loose...if it's possible to be loose in zero degree wind chill.

Just hang on to the rock boys and hope the reckless Cutler shows up.
Ramsey/Archer???????? WTF. I haven't caught up on all my reading, but is that who they brought in? WOW.

Yea, pretty sad state. Hopefully the Bears stay in hibernation for the winter.

Marrdro
12-20-2010, 08:08 PM
Between Webb, Ramsey and Archer, how many of them do you think will see playing time tonight?

Webb and Ramsey have to be high probability whether by injury or performance. What a way to get your first start, blizzard in MN against a hungry Bears team. In some ways, it puts him in a good position to play loose...if it's possible to be loose in zero degree wind chill.

Just hang on to the rock boys and hope the reckless Cutler shows up.
Ramsey/Archer???????? WTF. I haven't caught up on all my reading, but is that who they brought in? WOW.

Patrick Ramsey was signed last week Marr... where you been? :) RJ Archer was signed off from teh practice squad today, and they put Hutch on IR to make room.
I left for the hunt camp last Weds night. Spent all day long Weds getting my ignition rekeyed cause it wore out and was down hard all day long yesterday with this damn cold I can't seem to shake.

I see we just got Rhett Bomar as well. Someone correct me, by getting him, he has to be on the 53 man roster right? Who gets jettisoned?

Webb, Ramsey, Archer, Noodle?

My guess would be Archer, but other than Webb, he is the only one who has experience running the offense, albeit limited.

Something to think about though......It appears the Vikings are in a wholesale sign any QB that we think might work mode. Is this a indicator that we will see Bevs back at O-coord and Leslie as HC?

Infidel
12-21-2010, 12:03 AM
Jargo said:


This is actually pretty darn good weather for an outdoor game in Mpls. this time of year.
If the snow continues it should be quite entertaining.

One simple strategy for running in these conditions is to run flat footed. Might be a little slower but will slip and fall far less. Hope someone suggests they try it.

Look for Webb, Harvin, and AP to run some reverses. Webb may even run.

In those conditions, a good reverse is gonna put some defenders on their asses.....and if the runner doesn't try to cut too sharp and just makes the most of head and shoulder fakes......he can gain some yards.

I suspect AP will have trouble making the adjustment and it could just happen that Toby is effective tonight.

singersp
12-21-2010, 12:11 AM
Jargo said:


This is actually pretty darn good weather for an outdoor game in Mpls. this time of year.
If the snow continues it should be quite entertaining.

One simple strategy for running in these conditions is to run flat footed. Might be a little slower but will slip and fall far less. Hope someone suggests they try it.

Look for Webb, Harvin, and AP to run some reverses. Webb may even run.

In those conditions, a good reverse is gonna put some defenders on their asses.....and if the runner doesn't try to cut too sharp and just makes the most of head and shoulder fakes......he can gain some yards.

A reverse can just as easily put some runners on their asses, when they turn up field.

As was mentioned on ESPN, the reason that Belichek & the Patriots killed the Bears in Chicago was because he had them play a more straight up the field game. Receivers would run routes that didn't have them cutting sharp ins & outs & their running game was mainly straight up the field.