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View Full Version : no thanks on the pat williams thing....



DefensivePlaymaker
03-02-2005, 05:47 PM
i don't even want pat williams on our team, he's 32 years old fat and can't even play every play. We'd also probly have to overpay him to get him anyway, he's just not worth it in my book.

V4L
03-02-2005, 05:49 PM
if he cant play every play.. we could put in spenc.. he gets a ton of tackles.. pat is a great run stopper.. something we need drasticly

DefensivePlaymaker
03-02-2005, 05:52 PM
"Vikez4Lyfe" wrote:

if he cant play every play.. we could put in spenc.. he gets a ton of tackles.. pat is a great run stopper.. something we need drasticly

true, he is a great run stopper, but it is worth overpaying a guy at his age and knowing he'd be more of a situational player versus getting and maybe even overpaying maybe fred smoot who would play every play?

V4L
03-02-2005, 05:53 PM
we have the money so i say go for it!!!

DefensivePlaymaker
03-02-2005, 05:57 PM
"Vikez4Lyfe" wrote:

we have the money so i say go for it!!!

well if it were up to me, i'd say yes also, we have plenty of money, so let's do it, but let's face reality, Red is probly not going to sign more than 1 good free agent, if any. So, if you could have one, who would you take? Smoot, Law, Williams, etc?

vikingsfanatic94
03-02-2005, 05:58 PM
I'll agree, why over pay someone who cant play evry down. We have done that in the recent past! Does Chris Hovan ring any bell. Mr. bench warmer. Isn't there anyone else that will suffice, and not draw the highend $$$?

ajefx
03-02-2005, 06:01 PM
we do have Spencer Johnson, who would be perfect in a reduced role (such as giving Pat Williams a breather every now and then...)

Plus, I can't emphasize the importance of the D-line. The Panthers two years ago went to the SB based on the strength of their front seven, and more specifically, their D-line. In case you missed the playoff game against Philly, Donovan McNabb had ALL DAY to pass against us. No matter the corner, no one can cover a receiver that long. Getting pressure on the QB from the line helps out the passing game much more than adding an impact corner.

SKOL
03-02-2005, 06:12 PM
DOES ANYONE REMEMBER JERRY BALL? Similar to Gilbert Brown, the guy was only in for first downs, or if 2nd downs were shorter than say 4 yards, but he was awesome against the run. I'd love to see this guy brought in to plug the middle.

DefensivePlaymaker
03-02-2005, 06:12 PM
"ajefx" wrote:

we do have Spencer Johnson, who would be perfect in a reduced role (such as giving Pat Williams a breather every now and then...)

Plus, I can't emphasize the importance of the D-line. The Panthers two years ago went to the SB based on the strength of their front seven, and more specifically, their D-line. In case you missed the playoff game against Philly, Donovan McNabb had ALL DAY to pass against us. No matter the corner, no one can cover a receiver that long. Getting pressure on the QB from the line helps out the passing game much more than adding an impact corner.

I didn't miss the Philly game but we're saying here that Pat Williams is not a pass rusher, he's a space eater who's great against the run, he's not going to force mcnabb to throw it any faster.

sitandbehitski
03-02-2005, 06:33 PM
Anyone remember the play where Jerry Ball ran up the middle an literally sat on Troy Aikman, sending him out of the game and than he just sat on the bench with a dazed expression? Casey Hampton is only good against the run as well, and he went to the pro bowl a few years ago.

DefensivePlaymaker
03-02-2005, 06:43 PM
"sitandbehitski" wrote:

Anyone remember the play where Jerry Ball ran up the middle an literally sat on Troy Aikman, sending him out of the game and than he just sat on the bench with a dazed expression? Casey Hampton is only good against the run as well, and he went to the pro bowl a few years ago.

I realize that players that are good against the run can go to the pro bowl. I'm saying to overpay for a 32 year-old guy that's really effective against the run and not the pass is not a good idea. If Red would spend all that money he's sitting on, then it might not be too bad of an idea. But he won't spend much of it, so I think we should spend what money he will actually spend elsewhere.

muchluv4smoot
03-02-2005, 06:48 PM
"DefensivePlaymaker" wrote:

"ajefx" wrote:

we do have Spencer Johnson, who would be perfect in a reduced role (such as giving Pat Williams a breather every now and then...)

Plus, I can't emphasize the importance of the D-line. The Panthers two years ago went to the SB based on the strength of their front seven, and more specifically, their D-line. In case you missed the playoff game against Philly, Donovan McNabb had ALL DAY to pass against us. No matter the corner, no one can cover a receiver that long. Getting pressure on the QB from the line helps out the passing game much more than adding an impact corner.

I didn't miss the Philly game but we're saying here that Pat Williams is not a pass rusher, he's a space eater who's great against the run, he's not going to force mcnabb to throw it any faster.



Pat williams isn't gonna rush the passer, but his pressence next to K-will, will make it a ton easier for kevin williams to do his thing and harrass the QB. He is by far the best DT out there and the DT's in the draft aren't anything exciting either, so go get him. He will be the next jerry ball for us. Spencer will fill in for him on passing downs, making spencer more a pass rusher(since he will be fresh).

cajunvike
03-02-2005, 06:58 PM
"vikingsfanatic94" wrote:

I'll agree, why over pay someone who cant play evry down. We have done that in the recent past! Does Chris Hovan ring any bell. Mr. bench warmer. Isn't there anyone else that will suffice, and not draw the highend $$$?

PWill is WAY BETTER than Hovan...Hovan was the size to rush the passer...and he couldn't produce. PWill is a run-stuffer and has the size to do it well...remember Jerry Ball...that is what we are missing...so sign him up!

muchluv4smoot
03-02-2005, 06:59 PM
"cajunvike" wrote:

"vikingsfanatic94" wrote:

I'll agree, why over pay someone who cant play evry down. We have done that in the recent past! Does Chris Hovan ring any bell. Mr. bench warmer. Isn't there anyone else that will suffice, and not draw the highend $$$?

PWill is WAY BETTER than Hovan...Hovan was the size to rush the passer...and he couldn't produce. PWill is a run-stuffer and has the size to do it well...remember Jerry Ball...that is what we are missing...so sign him up!



Yeah, it's been too long since we had a legit run stuffer.

enlvikeman
03-02-2005, 07:27 PM
I had a chance to watch a lot of the Bills games this year and let me tell you Pat Williams is worth every penny we offer to him. The guy demands a double team every run play. That freed up alot of space for the Bills linebackers to make plays. There is no way an offensive line could double K Williams and P Williams every play. Go over to the Bills message board and see if they are thrilled over the thought of losing this guy. They put him in the same category as Sean Rogers. Spencer was good however if you watch him he would routinely get mauled by bigger offensive linemen. Pat williams does not get mauled. He's a gap filler

sitandbehitski
03-02-2005, 07:32 PM
You gotta love the Fat Guys :)

ajefx
03-02-2005, 07:44 PM
"DefensivePlaymaker" wrote:


I didn't miss the Philly game but we're saying here that Pat Williams is not a pass rusher, he's a space eater who's great against the run, he's not going to force mcnabb to throw it any faster.
if all Williams does is take up blockers and let Kevin Williams do his thing, he's worth whatever money we give him. Anything after that would be an added bonus.

Williams is only so effective at rushing the passer when he's being double- or triple-teamed.

SKOL
03-02-2005, 08:07 PM
"sitandbehitski" wrote:

You gotta love the Fat Guys :)

Ski, ya gotta stop vanishing for months at-a-time.

enlvikeman
03-02-2005, 08:37 PM
"SKOL" wrote:

"sitandbehitski" wrote:

You gotta love the Fat Guys :)

Ski, ya gotta stop vanishing for months at-a-time.

lol

cajunvike
03-02-2005, 08:43 PM
"sitandbehitski" wrote:

You gotta love the Fat Guys :)

http://thebox.free.fr/fat.html

ultravikingfan
03-02-2005, 08:45 PM
"sitandbehitski" wrote:

You gotta love the Fat Guys :)

Depends on how you love them! :lol:

muchluv4smoot
03-02-2005, 08:52 PM
Well we got him for 3 years $13 million with a $6 million signing bonus. I don't think that is too much for him.

MinnesotaFury
03-02-2005, 09:56 PM
as the kicker in the replacements once said:
"You big fatty!"

ItalianStallion
03-02-2005, 10:05 PM
I think it is a good signing. He played well last season, and as it was said before he was the best tackle in free agency and the draft tackles are unspectacular and/or not worth using a pick.

Plus he is used to Cotrell's system.

Purple Dragoon
03-02-2005, 10:12 PM
Great signing. Imagine all the hell the Animal is going to make with a big boy like Phat Pat next to him. If the Animal can get 11.5 sacks next to Spencer Johnson and Hovan, just imagine what he will do with a real two-three gap NT next to him!

My predictions for Kevin Williams next season: 65 tackles, 15 sacks.

DefensivePlaymaker
03-02-2005, 10:18 PM
"enlvikeman" wrote:

I had a chance to watch a lot of the Bills games this year and let me tell you Pat Williams is worth every penny we offer to him. The guy demands a double team every run play. That freed up alot of space for the Bills linebackers to make plays. There is no way an offensive line could double K Williams and P Williams every play. Go over to the Bills message board and see if they are thrilled over the thought of losing this guy. They put him in the same category as Sean Rogers. Spencer was good however if you watch him he would routinely get mauled by bigger offensive linemen. Pat williams does not get mauled. He's a gap filler

Why would they put Williams in the same class as Rogers?? Williams is 6'3" 317lbs....Rogers is 6'4" 345lbs. Rogers makes more tackles and gets more sacks. Rogers is also 7 years younger than Williams which means Williams is likely past his prime and Rogers is entering his prime.

Vikadelic
03-02-2005, 10:21 PM
I hope to eat Crow on this next season but I think we paid a bit too much. Like others have said, he is not more than a first down or third and short player. That is a bit one dimensional for that kind of salary. I hope I am wrong but I just feel we could have done better.

DefensivePlaymaker
03-02-2005, 10:48 PM
"Vikadelic" wrote:

I hope to eat Crow on this next season but I think we paid a bit too much. Like others have said, he is not more than a first down or third and short player. That is a bit one dimensional for that kind of salary. I hope I am wrong but I just feel we could have done better.

i couldn't agree with you more! :thumbright:

ItalianStallion
03-03-2005, 12:19 AM
So what are you guys saying. Obviously we had a need for a DT. We have 35 million in Cap space...

We should just sit on it.

Relax, this only makes our team better.

ultravikingfan
03-03-2005, 12:20 AM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:

So what are you guys saying. Obviously we had a need for a DT. We have 35 million in Cap space...

We should just sit on it.

Relax, this only makes our team better.

True, now we can unleash the beast 93!!!

snowinapril
03-03-2005, 12:24 AM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:

So what are you guys saying. Obviously we had a need for a DT. We have 35 million in Cap space...

We should just sit on it.

Relax, this only makes our team better.

Tru Dat!

People have been complaining we haven't spent money and a guy comes along that knows Cotrells system and must have been able to apply his skill to the system or Cotrell wouldn't have went after him, and we are still complaining.

It was a good move and there are more coming.

DrewLuvsVikes
03-03-2005, 12:32 AM
I agree with the move the Vikings made in getting Pat Willaims. It is all about the other Williams and that is Kevin and He and Pat will clog up the middle Williams will get alot more sacks this year. But I think the person who benefits from this the most is Udeze because he is a natural pass rusher and will really have an easy opprotunity to acquire sacks with the 2 Williams' garnering most of the attention.

OaklandVike
03-03-2005, 12:33 AM
I hope your right. Everyone's faith is a little shook because the Vikes had $30M to play with last year too!

And Red and Tice are still at the helm!

WI-ULT-MOSS-FAN
03-03-2005, 12:50 AM
I can understand people being worried about a fat guy like Pat, but I watched the packers win a super bowl w/ big Gilbert Brown and the guy was a force to be reckoned with. Pat is a good deal and will add to this D-line. Not to mention I watched grady jackson do his thing alot this year(since I was forced to watch GB:(..), these guys are huge but they can give a team an advantage.

AngloVike
03-03-2005, 04:14 AM
Personally I think this is a good move, if Pat Williams demands being double teamed and KWill demands double teams then Udeze and Johnson could reap big benefits from and maybe we'll finally start getting pressure onto the QB that has been so lacking in recent seasons. Extra pressure will also relieve the pressure on the secondary so we have two pluses on the defence already.
One man is not going to be the salvation of the team but its a positive start by the Vikes in FA

Del Rio
03-03-2005, 08:43 AM
There are bunch of bonuses to having a fatty like Pat on the line. I think this was a good signing, not the best for our worst needs atm, but a very good signing never the less.

1) Obvious run stopping. Guy is huge, you aren't gonna move him alone. Teams will have to run away from him this helps the whole team.

2) Gap control, again this guy will not be pushed around. His gap will be handled. This will help our young LB's make reads.

3) Depth, the goal of the D-line is to get 2-3 yards depth into the backfield and go from there. This guy does that very well. Just moving the o-line backwards is a victory in a small way.

4) You will have to double him on runs if you choose to run his way. Freeing up a LB probably on the back side which ours are fast so that will be good. You double him............we all know what the reat of our d-line is capable of. They pull a tackle or a guard to block him? Instant give away for Nap to read the direction of the run. Depending on which LB's are using the pulling lineman as their read.

5) Stunts, we have a lot more range now on our stunts. Fat Pat stunts in front of you and just seconds before the cadence and you were supposed to release on a small little backer your brain starts realing, Oh hell I have this tub now. Mix in a blitz money in the bank.

6) If there is a perfect pocket and our coverage is good Pat will cave that bad boy in. With K will on the opposite side and Udeze on the end I suspect we will get many sacks. They may not come from Pat but they will come.

Some bad things are:

This guy isn't going to be chasing down QB's BUT if he can get in their face it's over.

Durability every one start praying right now he doesn't get hurt. Seems like the 300lb people are always hurting themselves. Heck just having that much weight on your knees and other joints is probably wearing em down.

Caine
03-03-2005, 09:58 AM
After initial concern, I'm actually pretty excited about this one. WE have a big DT run-stuffer again, and someone who will create opportunitites for the rest of our D-line...something we've lacked in recent years.

Sure, he's older than I'd like, but Jerry Ball played forever, as did Gilbert Brown in Green Bay.

I think the Double Williams Combo is going to be devastating.

Caine

PAvikesfan
03-03-2005, 11:16 AM
all this... welcome Pat Williams. he will take some of the double teams off of K Williams and don't forget Udeze... i predict 12+ sacks for K williams and 7+ for udeze this year especially with pat williams in there and the steadiness of Napo in the midle to back them all up.

Viking Viper
03-03-2005, 11:31 AM
Phat Pat is where it's at.

cajunvike
03-03-2005, 11:38 AM
"Viking Viper" wrote:

Phat Pat is where it's at.

And we can always use Baby Phat (Spencer Johnson) to spell him on third downs!!!

cajunvike
03-03-2005, 11:39 AM
"Caine" wrote:

After initial concern, I'm actually pretty excited about this one. WE have a big DT run-stuffer again, and someone who will create opportunitites for the rest of our D-line...something we've lacked in recent years.

Sure, he's older than I'd like, but Jerry Ball played forever, as did Gilbert Brown in Green Bay.

I think the Double Williams Combo is going to be devastating.

Caine

I'll take 19 orders of the Double Williams Combo to go, please...to go all the way to the Super Bowl and win it!!!