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Marrdro
06-23-2010, 10:40 AM
The Sporting News is busy counting down to training camp by breaking down each roster and trying to provide a unique preview of sorts.

For example, middle linebacker Jasper Brinkley has their vote for breakout player of the year for the purple and gold. Also, they predict that without Favre there is virtually no chance of the Vikings playing in February.

The most interesting portion of the story, however, is under the “Opponent’s View” section. In this section, an unnamed opponent gives his take on the Vikings and it isn’t pretty:



Unnamed Opponent Slams McKinnie, Other Vikings (http://www.vikingsgab.com/2010/06/22/unnamed-opponent-slams-mckinnie-other-vikings/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+VikingsGab+%28Vikings+Gab%29)

Marrdro
06-23-2010, 10:43 AM
Vikings camp countdown: Minnesota shows enough firepower to make another deep playoff run -- provided their leader returns (http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2010-06-22/vikings-camp-countdown-minnesota-shows-enough-firepower-make-another-deep-pla)

The Article mentioned in Vikings Gab article.

i_bleed_purple
06-23-2010, 10:45 AM
You know what, their offensive line is not that good. They’re way overrated. It’s unbelievable. If they didn’t have Brett Favre, the number of times he gets them out of trouble is amazing. Left tackle Bryant McKinnie, it’s a joke that he made the Pro Bowl. A joke. …

“They have excellent speed at receiver. They have good balance at tight end—Visanthe Shiancoe can make big plays down the field, and Jimmy Kleinsasser isn’t what he used to be but still gives you a good day’s work. Jeff Dugan is solid. … Adrian Peterson is a little bit feast or famine. I think it will hurt them that they lost Chester Taylor because that was an excellent 1-2 punch. …

“Defensively, they’re solid. They do a good job stopping the run, and they get after the quarterback. Ray Edwards is a good player; Jared Allen is an excellent pass rusher. But Kevin Williams, he’s the best guy they have up front. At linebacker, I don’t know what’s going to happen with E.J. Henderson and his injury. Chad Greenway is a playmaker. …

“In the secondary, Antoine Winfield is a tough, physical tackler and by far their best guy back there. They don’t have a weak defense, but the lowest part of their defense is their secondary. That’s not to say they’re bad. I just don’t think they’re at the same level as the front.”

That seems 100% accurate to me

marstc09
06-23-2010, 11:18 AM
i_bleed_purple wrote:


You know what, their offensive line is not that good. They’re way overrated. It’s unbelievable. If they didn’t have Brett Favre, the number of times he gets them out of trouble is amazing. Left tackle Bryant McKinnie, it’s a joke that he made the Pro Bowl. A joke. …

“They have excellent speed at receiver. They have good balance at tight end—Visanthe Shiancoe can make big plays down the field, and Jimmy Kleinsasser isn’t what he used to be but still gives you a good day’s work. Jeff Dugan is solid. … Adrian Peterson is a little bit feast or famine. I think it will hurt them that they lost Chester Taylor because that was an excellent 1-2 punch. …

“Defensively, they’re solid. They do a good job stopping the run, and they get after the quarterback. Ray Edwards is a good player; Jared Allen is an excellent pass rusher. But Kevin Williams, he’s the best guy they have up front. At linebacker, I don’t know what’s going to happen with E.J. Henderson and his injury. Chad Greenway is a playmaker. …

“In the secondary, Antoine Winfield is a tough, physical tackler and by far their best guy back there. They don’t have a weak defense, but the lowest part of their defense is their secondary. That’s not to say they’re bad. I just don’t think they’re at the same level as the front.”

That seems 100% accurate to me

Yup! Favre bailed them out last year and he will do it this year. It is sad that some don't see the huge difference between him and TJ.

Marrdro
06-23-2010, 11:18 AM
i_bleed_purple wrote:


You know what, their offensive line is not that good. They’re way overrated. It’s unbelievable. If they didn’t have Brett Favre, the number of times he gets them out of trouble is amazing. Left tackle Bryant McKinnie, it’s a joke that he made the Pro Bowl. A joke. …

“They have excellent speed at receiver. They have good balance at tight end—Visanthe Shiancoe can make big plays down the field, and Jimmy Kleinsasser isn’t what he used to be but still gives you a good day’s work. Jeff Dugan is solid. … Adrian Peterson is a little bit feast or famine. I think it will hurt them that they lost Chester Taylor because that was an excellent 1-2 punch. …

“Defensively, they’re solid. They do a good job stopping the run, and they get after the quarterback. Ray Edwards is a good player; Jared Allen is an excellent pass rusher. But Kevin Williams, he’s the best guy they have up front. At linebacker, I don’t know what’s going to happen with E.J. Henderson and his injury. Chad Greenway is a playmaker. …

“In the secondary, Antoine Winfield is a tough, physical tackler and by far their best guy back there. They don’t have a weak defense, but the lowest part of their defense is their secondary. That’s not to say they’re bad. I just don’t think they’re at the same level as the front.”

That seems 100% accurate to me
Other than maybe the Winfield comment about being the best guy back there along with the Chester Taylor loss will hurt us comment, yes, I agree.

Marrdro
06-23-2010, 11:19 AM
marstc09 wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


You know what, their offensive line is not that good. They’re way overrated. It’s unbelievable. If they didn’t have Brett Favre, the number of times he gets them out of trouble is amazing. Left tackle Bryant McKinnie, it’s a joke that he made the Pro Bowl. A joke. …

“They have excellent speed at receiver. They have good balance at tight end—Visanthe Shiancoe can make big plays down the field, and Jimmy Kleinsasser isn’t what he used to be but still gives you a good day’s work. Jeff Dugan is solid. … Adrian Peterson is a little bit feast or famine. I think it will hurt them that they lost Chester Taylor because that was an excellent 1-2 punch. …

“Defensively, they’re solid. They do a good job stopping the run, and they get after the quarterback. Ray Edwards is a good player; Jared Allen is an excellent pass rusher. But Kevin Williams, he’s the best guy they have up front. At linebacker, I don’t know what’s going to happen with E.J. Henderson and his injury. Chad Greenway is a playmaker. …

“In the secondary, Antoine Winfield is a tough, physical tackler and by far their best guy back there. They don’t have a weak defense, but the lowest part of their defense is their secondary. That’s not to say they’re bad. I just don’t think they’re at the same level as the front.”

That seems 100% accurate to me

Yup! Favre bailed them out last year and he will do it this year. It is sad that some don't see the huge difference between him and TJ.
I think some see the difference, just a few of those some feel that this team can win without him, just like we lost with him. ;)

V4L
06-23-2010, 11:21 AM
HAHAHAHA

Fragile Freds
June 22nd, 2010 at 9:58 pm

This source sounds like the same one that said AP insisted on keeping Tahi.

Sporting News has really gone in the tank. Great, an unnamed opponent.

i_bleed_purple
06-23-2010, 11:24 AM
Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


You know what, their offensive line is not that good. They’re way overrated. It’s unbelievable. If they didn’t have Brett Favre, the number of times he gets them out of trouble is amazing. Left tackle Bryant McKinnie, it’s a joke that he made the Pro Bowl. A joke. …

“They have excellent speed at receiver. They have good balance at tight end—Visanthe Shiancoe can make big plays down the field, and Jimmy Kleinsasser isn’t what he used to be but still gives you a good day’s work. Jeff Dugan is solid. … Adrian Peterson is a little bit feast or famine. I think it will hurt them that they lost Chester Taylor because that was an excellent 1-2 punch. …

“Defensively, they’re solid. They do a good job stopping the run, and they get after the quarterback. Ray Edwards is a good player; Jared Allen is an excellent pass rusher. But Kevin Williams, he’s the best guy they have up front. At linebacker, I don’t know what’s going to happen with E.J. Henderson and his injury. Chad Greenway is a playmaker. …

“In the secondary, Antoine Winfield is a tough, physical tackler and by far their best guy back there. They don’t have a weak defense, but the lowest part of their defense is their secondary. That’s not to say they’re bad. I just don’t think they’re at the same level as the front.”

That seems 100% accurate to me
Other than maybe the Winfield comment about being the best guy back there along with the Chester Taylor loss will hurt us comment, yes, I agree.

So you think that TJ, MW and Sheppard are better than Winny?

Based on what? (Last I checked, Griffen wasn't back there, and isn't expected to be)

slavinator
06-23-2010, 11:59 AM
i_bleed_purple wrote:


You know what, their offensive line is not that good. They’re way overrated. It’s unbelievable. If they didn’t have Brett Favre, the number of times he gets them out of trouble is amazing. Left tackle Bryant McKinnie, it’s a joke that he made the Pro Bowl. A joke. …

“They have excellent speed at receiver. They have good balance at tight end—Visanthe Shiancoe can make big plays down the field, and Jimmy Kleinsasser isn’t what he used to be but still gives you a good day’s work. Jeff Dugan is solid. … Adrian Peterson is a little bit feast or famine. I think it will hurt them that they lost Chester Taylor because that was an excellent 1-2 punch. …

“Defensively, they’re solid. They do a good job stopping the run, and they get after the quarterback. Ray Edwards is a good player; Jared Allen is an excellent pass rusher. But Kevin Williams, he’s the best guy they have up front. At linebacker, I don’t know what’s going to happen with E.J. Henderson and his injury. Chad Greenway is a playmaker. …

“In the secondary, Antoine Winfield is a tough, physical tackler and by far their best guy back there. They don’t have a weak defense, but the lowest part of their defense is their secondary. That’s not to say they’re bad. I just don’t think they’re at the same level as the front.”

That seems 100% accurate to me

I think it is spot on as well.

Marrdro
06-23-2010, 12:04 PM
i_bleed_purple wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


You know what, their offensive line is not that good. They’re way overrated. It’s unbelievable. If they didn’t have Brett Favre, the number of times he gets them out of trouble is amazing. Left tackle Bryant McKinnie, it’s a joke that he made the Pro Bowl. A joke. …

“They have excellent speed at receiver. They have good balance at tight end—Visanthe Shiancoe can make big plays down the field, and Jimmy Kleinsasser isn’t what he used to be but still gives you a good day’s work. Jeff Dugan is solid. … Adrian Peterson is a little bit feast or famine. I think it will hurt them that they lost Chester Taylor because that was an excellent 1-2 punch. …

“Defensively, they’re solid. They do a good job stopping the run, and they get after the quarterback. Ray Edwards is a good player; Jared Allen is an excellent pass rusher. But Kevin Williams, he’s the best guy they have up front. At linebacker, I don’t know what’s going to happen with E.J. Henderson and his injury. Chad Greenway is a playmaker. …

“In the secondary, Antoine Winfield is a tough, physical tackler and by far their best guy back there. They don’t have a weak defense, but the lowest part of their defense is their secondary. That’s not to say they’re bad. I just don’t think they’re at the same level as the front.”

That seems 100% accurate to me
Other than maybe the Winfield comment about being the best guy back there along with the Chester Taylor loss will hurt us comment, yes, I agree.

So you think that TJ, MW and Sheppard are better than Winny?

Based on what? (Last I checked, Griffen wasn't back there, and isn't expected to be)
Last time I checked, Whinny isn't either. ;)

As to the crop, I was talking about Griff so you make a good point. As I think about it now that you made that point, I think Lito is better. Sapp and AA seemed to fit in well last year, especially in the pass protection area.

I will give you run support in Whinny lane, but again, I want my CB to pass defend first, help in the run second.

slavinator
06-23-2010, 12:17 PM
Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


You know what, their offensive line is not that good. They’re way overrated. It’s unbelievable. If they didn’t have Brett Favre, the number of times he gets them out of trouble is amazing. Left tackle Bryant McKinnie, it’s a joke that he made the Pro Bowl. A joke. …

“They have excellent speed at receiver. They have good balance at tight end—Visanthe Shiancoe can make big plays down the field, and Jimmy Kleinsasser isn’t what he used to be but still gives you a good day’s work. Jeff Dugan is solid. … Adrian Peterson is a little bit feast or famine. I think it will hurt them that they lost Chester Taylor because that was an excellent 1-2 punch. …

“Defensively, they’re solid. They do a good job stopping the run, and they get after the quarterback. Ray Edwards is a good player; Jared Allen is an excellent pass rusher. But Kevin Williams, he’s the best guy they have up front. At linebacker, I don’t know what’s going to happen with E.J. Henderson and his injury. Chad Greenway is a playmaker. …

“In the secondary, Antoine Winfield is a tough, physical tackler and by far their best guy back there. They don’t have a weak defense, but the lowest part of their defense is their secondary. That’s not to say they’re bad. I just don’t think they’re at the same level as the front.”

That seems 100% accurate to me
Other than maybe the Winfield comment about being the best guy back there along with the Chester Taylor loss will hurt us comment, yes, I agree.

So you think that TJ, MW and Sheppard are better than Winny?

Based on what? (Last I checked, Griffen wasn't back there, and isn't expected to be)
Last time I checked, Whinny isn't either. ;)

As to the crop, I was talking about Griff so you make a good point. As I think about it now that you made that point, I think Lito is better. Sapp and AA seemed to fit in well last year, especially in the pass protection area.

I will give you run support in Whinny lane, but again, I want my CB to pass defend first, help in the run second.

I agree with where you are both coming from. Here is my take:

Winfield is about the most physical run support corner in the league and was hampered by injuries last year. He was exploited a bit in pass coverage. One of my favorite memories of this year was Gruden gushing over Winfield's physical line play.

Whats important to me is that we addressed the secondary in the draft and FA. Jamarcus and Asher filled in pretty well and they all seem to be focused on being a more physical secondary.

I like the moves we made to address the stuff in the secondary. Losing Chester is going to hurt us FAR more than any of us want to acknowledge. I like the young and old mix on the team and hope we can get a couple new guys to step up and put their print on an otherwise stacked roster.

Marrdro
06-23-2010, 12:26 PM
slavinator wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


You know what, their offensive line is not that good. They’re way overrated. It’s unbelievable. If they didn’t have Brett Favre, the number of times he gets them out of trouble is amazing. Left tackle Bryant McKinnie, it’s a joke that he made the Pro Bowl. A joke. …

“They have excellent speed at receiver. They have good balance at tight end—Visanthe Shiancoe can make big plays down the field, and Jimmy Kleinsasser isn’t what he used to be but still gives you a good day’s work. Jeff Dugan is solid. … Adrian Peterson is a little bit feast or famine. I think it will hurt them that they lost Chester Taylor because that was an excellent 1-2 punch. …

“Defensively, they’re solid. They do a good job stopping the run, and they get after the quarterback. Ray Edwards is a good player; Jared Allen is an excellent pass rusher. But Kevin Williams, he’s the best guy they have up front. At linebacker, I don’t know what’s going to happen with E.J. Henderson and his injury. Chad Greenway is a playmaker. …

“In the secondary, Antoine Winfield is a tough, physical tackler and by far their best guy back there. They don’t have a weak defense, but the lowest part of their defense is their secondary. That’s not to say they’re bad. I just don’t think they’re at the same level as the front.”

That seems 100% accurate to me
Other than maybe the Winfield comment about being the best guy back there along with the Chester Taylor loss will hurt us comment, yes, I agree.

So you think that TJ, MW and Sheppard are better than Winny?

Based on what? (Last I checked, Griffen wasn't back there, and isn't expected to be)
Last time I checked, Whinny isn't either. ;)

As to the crop, I was talking about Griff so you make a good point. As I think about it now that you made that point, I think Lito is better. Sapp and AA seemed to fit in well last year, especially in the pass protection area.

I will give you run support in Whinny lane, but again, I want my CB to pass defend first, help in the run second.

I agree with where you are both coming from. Here is my take:

Winfield is about the most physical run support corner in the league and was hampered by injuries last year. He was exploited a bit in pass coverage. One of my favorite memories of this year was Gruden gushing over Winfield's physical line play.

Whats important to me is that we addressed the secondary in the draft and FA. Jamarcus and Asher filled in pretty well and they all seem to be focused on being a more physical secondary.

I like the moves we made to address the stuff in the secondary. Losing Chester is going to hurt us FAR more than any of us want to acknowledge. I like the young and old mix on the team and hope we can get a couple new guys to step up and put their print on an otherwise stacked roster.
Ole Slav, bringing the "A" game to the table......

Excellent post my friend.

One comment/discussion point. I just don't see CT's absence being that big of a deal, other than what he will do for the Bores.

We have a nice bunch of guys competing for the 2nd and 3rd string duties were I think you will see the two that win, bring a nice mix of what CT used to do on his own.

slavinator
06-23-2010, 12:38 PM
Marrdro wrote:

slavinator wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


You know what, their offensive line is not that good. They’re way overrated. It’s unbelievable. If they didn’t have Brett Favre, the number of times he gets them out of trouble is amazing. Left tackle Bryant McKinnie, it’s a joke that he made the Pro Bowl. A joke. …

“They have excellent speed at receiver. They have good balance at tight end—Visanthe Shiancoe can make big plays down the field, and Jimmy Kleinsasser isn’t what he used to be but still gives you a good day’s work. Jeff Dugan is solid. … Adrian Peterson is a little bit feast or famine. I think it will hurt them that they lost Chester Taylor because that was an excellent 1-2 punch. …

“Defensively, they’re solid. They do a good job stopping the run, and they get after the quarterback. Ray Edwards is a good player; Jared Allen is an excellent pass rusher. But Kevin Williams, he’s the best guy they have up front. At linebacker, I don’t know what’s going to happen with E.J. Henderson and his injury. Chad Greenway is a playmaker. …

“In the secondary, Antoine Winfield is a tough, physical tackler and by far their best guy back there. They don’t have a weak defense, but the lowest part of their defense is their secondary. That’s not to say they’re bad. I just don’t think they’re at the same level as the front.”

That seems 100% accurate to me
Other than maybe the Winfield comment about being the best guy back there along with the Chester Taylor loss will hurt us comment, yes, I agree.

So you think that TJ, MW and Sheppard are better than Winny?

Based on what? (Last I checked, Griffen wasn't back there, and isn't expected to be)
Last time I checked, Whinny isn't either. ;)

As to the crop, I was talking about Griff so you make a good point. As I think about it now that you made that point, I think Lito is better. Sapp and AA seemed to fit in well last year, especially in the pass protection area.

I will give you run support in Whinny lane, but again, I want my CB to pass defend first, help in the run second.

I agree with where you are both coming from. Here is my take:

Winfield is about the most physical run support corner in the league and was hampered by injuries last year. He was exploited a bit in pass coverage. One of my favorite memories of this year was Gruden gushing over Winfield's physical line play.

Whats important to me is that we addressed the secondary in the draft and FA. Jamarcus and Asher filled in pretty well and they all seem to be focused on being a more physical secondary.

I like the moves we made to address the stuff in the secondary. Losing Chester is going to hurt us FAR more than any of us want to acknowledge. I like the young and old mix on the team and hope we can get a couple new guys to step up and put their print on an otherwise stacked roster.
Ole Slav, bringing the "A" game to the table......

Excellent post my friend.

One comment/discussion point. I just don't see CT's absence being that big of a deal, other than what he will do for the Bores.

We have a nice bunch of guys competing for the 2nd and 3rd string duties were I think you will see the two that win, bring a nice mix of what CT used to do on his own.

CT was absolutely huge on 3rd downs for us, even when the whole world knew he was going to catch a little screen pass.

While Moats, Toby, Albert, Reynaud, and Percy bring something to the table, I think that CT's contributions last year were overshadowed by so many other stars on the team.

I just think it is tough to bottle up Chester and facing him 2x per year instead of Forte, with Martz as the OC our defense will be tested.

jmcdon00
06-23-2010, 02:45 PM
i_bleed_purple wrote:


You know what, their offensive line is not that good. They’re way overrated. It’s unbelievable. If they didn’t have Brett Favre, the number of times he gets them out of trouble is amazing. Left tackle Bryant McKinnie, it’s a joke that he made the Pro Bowl. A joke. …

“They have excellent speed at receiver. They have good balance at tight end—Visanthe Shiancoe can make big plays down the field, and Jimmy Kleinsasser isn’t what he used to be but still gives you a good day’s work. Jeff Dugan is solid. … Adrian Peterson is a little bit feast or famine. I think it will hurt them that they lost Chester Taylor because that was an excellent 1-2 punch. …

“Defensively, they’re solid. They do a good job stopping the run, and they get after the quarterback. Ray Edwards is a good player; Jared Allen is an excellent pass rusher. But Kevin Williams, he’s the best guy they have up front. At linebacker, I don’t know what’s going to happen with E.J. Henderson and his injury. Chad Greenway is a playmaker. …

“In the secondary, Antoine Winfield is a tough, physical tackler and by far their best guy back there. They don’t have a weak defense, but the lowest part of their defense is their secondary. That’s not to say they’re bad. I just don’t think they’re at the same level as the front.”

That seems 100% accurate to me
Some good points in there, but alot of rubbish too. Fact is this team has as much talent as any in the league.

The offensive line is not that good, but I really don't recall anyone saying they were. McKinnie shouldn't have made the pro-bowl that is true, but everyone already knows that.

Our recievers are more than just fast. Rice has great hands. Harvin is great after the catch. Berrian brings alot of leadership and experience. One of the most complete groups in the NFL, IMHO.
Adrian Peterson is very rarely famine, most of the time he's feast. Over 1800 hundred yards and 18 tds. He scored TD's in 12 of 16 games last year. In the 4 that he didn't score a TD he had 99yds, 166yds, 98yds, 65yds rushing/recieving. No back has been more consistant over the last 3 years.

Defense, yeah I agree they are stacked up the wazoo with talent.

Secondary, I agree. Not as good as the best defensive line in the NFL. That's really not saying much. Probably the area the team improved the most in the off-season.

marshallvike
06-23-2010, 04:56 PM
Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


You know what, their offensive line is not that good. They’re way overrated. It’s unbelievable. If they didn’t have Brett Favre, the number of times he gets them out of trouble is amazing. Left tackle Bryant McKinnie, it’s a joke that he made the Pro Bowl. A joke. …

“They have excellent speed at receiver. They have good balance at tight end—Visanthe Shiancoe can make big plays down the field, and Jimmy Kleinsasser isn’t what he used to be but still gives you a good day’s work. Jeff Dugan is solid. … Adrian Peterson is a little bit feast or famine. I think it will hurt them that they lost Chester Taylor because that was an excellent 1-2 punch. …

“Defensively, they’re solid. They do a good job stopping the run, and they get after the quarterback. Ray Edwards is a good player; Jared Allen is an excellent pass rusher. But Kevin Williams, he’s the best guy they have up front. At linebacker, I don’t know what’s going to happen with E.J. Henderson and his injury. Chad Greenway is a playmaker. …

“In the secondary, Antoine Winfield is a tough, physical tackler and by far their best guy back there. They don’t have a weak defense, but the lowest part of their defense is their secondary. That’s not to say they’re bad. I just don’t think they’re at the same level as the front.”

That seems 100% accurate to me
Other than maybe the Winfield comment about being the best guy back there along with the Chester Taylor loss will hurt us comment, yes, I agree.

come on marr. how more proof do you need. stated right here in black and white by an oppoonent who doesn't have the stones to put his name to his comments.
I'm going with it.

Winfield is the best!!!

i_bleed_purple
06-23-2010, 05:05 PM
jmcdon00 wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


You know what, their offensive line is not that good. They’re way overrated. It’s unbelievable. If they didn’t have Brett Favre, the number of times he gets them out of trouble is amazing. Left tackle Bryant McKinnie, it’s a joke that he made the Pro Bowl. A joke. …

“They have excellent speed at receiver. They have good balance at tight end—Visanthe Shiancoe can make big plays down the field, and Jimmy Kleinsasser isn’t what he used to be but still gives you a good day’s work. Jeff Dugan is solid. … Adrian Peterson is a little bit feast or famine. I think it will hurt them that they lost Chester Taylor because that was an excellent 1-2 punch. …

“Defensively, they’re solid. They do a good job stopping the run, and they get after the quarterback. Ray Edwards is a good player; Jared Allen is an excellent pass rusher. But Kevin Williams, he’s the best guy they have up front. At linebacker, I don’t know what’s going to happen with E.J. Henderson and his injury. Chad Greenway is a playmaker. …

“In the secondary, Antoine Winfield is a tough, physical tackler and by far their best guy back there. They don’t have a weak defense, but the lowest part of their defense is their secondary. That’s not to say they’re bad. I just don’t think they’re at the same level as the front.”

That seems 100% accurate to me
Some good points in there, but alot of rubbish too. Fact is this team has as much talent as any in the league.

The offensive line is not that good, but I really don't recall anyone saying they were. McKinnie shouldn't have made the pro-bowl that is true, but everyone already knows that.

Our recievers are more than just fast. Rice has great hands. Harvin is great after the catch. Berrian brings alot of leadership and experience. One of the most complete groups in the NFL, IMHO.
Adrian Peterson is very rarely famine, most of the time he's feast. Over 1800 hundred yards and 18 tds. He scored TD's in 12 of 16 games last year. In the 4 that he didn't score a TD he had 99yds, 166yds, 98yds, 65yds rushing/recieving. No back has been more consistant over the last 3 years.

Defense, yeah I agree they are stacked up the wazoo with talent.

Secondary, I agree. Not as good as the best defensive line in the NFL. That's really not saying much. Probably the area the team improved the most in the off-season.

They never say the Vikings aren't good.

They point out:
Our OL isn't very good (True)
McKinnie was a joke (True)
Favre bailed us out (True)
Speed at WR (True, I take that to mean more than just a team of Williamson's)
Shanks good(True)
Jimmy K Isn't as good as he was (True)
Dugan's solid (not the word I'd choose, but servicable)
We're good at stopping the run (True)
We can apply pressure (True)
RE, JA and KW are good to great players (True)
LB is a question without EJ (True)
AD is up and down at time (He struggles vs. certain fronts)
Winfield is a beast (True)
Our Secondary is the weak point (True)

What part there did I miss?

jmcdon00
06-23-2010, 05:45 PM
i_bleed_purple wrote:

jmcdon00 wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


You know what, their offensive line is not that good. They’re way overrated. It’s unbelievable. If they didn’t have Brett Favre, the number of times he gets them out of trouble is amazing. Left tackle Bryant McKinnie, it’s a joke that he made the Pro Bowl. A joke. …

“They have excellent speed at receiver. They have good balance at tight end—Visanthe Shiancoe can make big plays down the field, and Jimmy Kleinsasser isn’t what he used to be but still gives you a good day’s work. Jeff Dugan is solid. … Adrian Peterson is a little bit feast or famine. I think it will hurt them that they lost Chester Taylor because that was an excellent 1-2 punch. …

“Defensively, they’re solid. They do a good job stopping the run, and they get after the quarterback. Ray Edwards is a good player; Jared Allen is an excellent pass rusher. But Kevin Williams, he’s the best guy they have up front. At linebacker, I don’t know what’s going to happen with E.J. Henderson and his injury. Chad Greenway is a playmaker. …

“In the secondary, Antoine Winfield is a tough, physical tackler and by far their best guy back there. They don’t have a weak defense, but the lowest part of their defense is their secondary. That’s not to say they’re bad. I just don’t think they’re at the same level as the front.”

That seems 100% accurate to me
Some good points in there, but alot of rubbish too. Fact is this team has as much talent as any in the league.

The offensive line is not that good, but I really don't recall anyone saying they were. McKinnie shouldn't have made the pro-bowl that is true, but everyone already knows that.

Our recievers are more than just fast. Rice has great hands. Harvin is great after the catch. Berrian brings alot of leadership and experience. One of the most complete groups in the NFL, IMHO.
Adrian Peterson is very rarely famine, most of the time he's feast. Over 1800 hundred yards and 18 tds. He scored TD's in 12 of 16 games last year. In the 4 that he didn't score a TD he had 99yds, 166yds, 98yds, 65yds rushing/recieving. No back has been more consistant over the last 3 years.

Defense, yeah I agree they are stacked up the wazoo with talent.

Secondary, I agree. Not as good as the best defensive line in the NFL. That's really not saying much. Probably the area the team improved the most in the off-season.

They never say the Vikings aren't good.

They point out:
Our OL isn't very good (True)
McKinnie was a joke (True)
Favre bailed us out (True)
Speed at WR (True, I take that to mean more than just a team of Williamson's)
Shanks good(True)
Jimmy K Isn't as good as he was (True)
Dugan's solid (not the word I'd choose, but servicable)
We're good at stopping the run (True)
We can apply pressure (True)
RE, JA and KW are good to great players (True)
LB is a question without EJ (True)
AD is up and down at time (He struggles vs. certain fronts)
Winfield is a beast (True)
Our Secondary is the weak point (True)

What part there did I miss?
They were not wrong on much, but they left alot out.

The one part I'll disagree with is Peterson being Feast or Famine. He's as consistant a back as any in the nfl.

So I'll agree 95% with the rant.

Purple Floyd
06-23-2010, 07:10 PM
i_bleed_purple wrote:

jmcdon00 wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


You know what, their offensive line is not that good. They’re way overrated. It’s unbelievable. If they didn’t have Brett Favre, the number of times he gets them out of trouble is amazing. Left tackle Bryant McKinnie, it’s a joke that he made the Pro Bowl. A joke. …

“They have excellent speed at receiver. They have good balance at tight end—Visanthe Shiancoe can make big plays down the field, and Jimmy Kleinsasser isn’t what he used to be but still gives you a good day’s work. Jeff Dugan is solid. … Adrian Peterson is a little bit feast or famine. I think it will hurt them that they lost Chester Taylor because that was an excellent 1-2 punch. …

“Defensively, they’re solid. They do a good job stopping the run, and they get after the quarterback. Ray Edwards is a good player; Jared Allen is an excellent pass rusher. But Kevin Williams, he’s the best guy they have up front. At linebacker, I don’t know what’s going to happen with E.J. Henderson and his injury. Chad Greenway is a playmaker. …

“In the secondary, Antoine Winfield is a tough, physical tackler and by far their best guy back there. They don’t have a weak defense, but the lowest part of their defense is their secondary. That’s not to say they’re bad. I just don’t think they’re at the same level as the front.”

That seems 100% accurate to me
Some good points in there, but alot of rubbish too. Fact is this team has as much talent as any in the league.

The offensive line is not that good, but I really don't recall anyone saying they were. McKinnie shouldn't have made the pro-bowl that is true, but everyone already knows that.

Our recievers are more than just fast. Rice has great hands. Harvin is great after the catch. Berrian brings alot of leadership and experience. One of the most complete groups in the NFL, IMHO.
Adrian Peterson is very rarely famine, most of the time he's feast. Over 1800 hundred yards and 18 tds. He scored TD's in 12 of 16 games last year. In the 4 that he didn't score a TD he had 99yds, 166yds, 98yds, 65yds rushing/recieving. No back has been more consistant over the last 3 years.

Defense, yeah I agree they are stacked up the wazoo with talent.

Secondary, I agree. Not as good as the best defensive line in the NFL. That's really not saying much. Probably the area the team improved the most in the off-season.

They never say the Vikings aren't good.

They point out:
Our OL isn't very good (True)
McKinnie was a joke (True)
Favre bailed us out (True)
Speed at WR (True, I take that to mean more than just a team of Williamson's)
Shanks good(True)
Jimmy K Isn't as good as he was (True)
Dugan's solid (not the word I'd choose, but servicable)
We're good at stopping the run (True)
We can apply pressure (True)
RE, JA and KW are good to great players (True)
LB is a question without EJ (True)
AD is up and down at time (He struggles vs. certain fronts)
Winfield is a beast (True)
Our Secondary is the weak point (True)

What part there did I miss?

That Childress sucks. I know it is in there somewhere :woohoo:

Tad7
06-23-2010, 11:55 PM
interesting

12purplepride28
06-24-2010, 01:46 AM
i_bleed_purple wrote:

jmcdon00 wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


You know what, their offensive line is not that good. They’re way overrated. It’s unbelievable. If they didn’t have Brett Favre, the number of times he gets them out of trouble is amazing. Left tackle Bryant McKinnie, it’s a joke that he made the Pro Bowl. A joke. …

“They have excellent speed at receiver. They have good balance at tight end—Visanthe Shiancoe can make big plays down the field, and Jimmy Kleinsasser isn’t what he used to be but still gives you a good day’s work. Jeff Dugan is solid. … Adrian Peterson is a little bit feast or famine. I think it will hurt them that they lost Chester Taylor because that was an excellent 1-2 punch. …

“Defensively, they’re solid. They do a good job stopping the run, and they get after the quarterback. Ray Edwards is a good player; Jared Allen is an excellent pass rusher. But Kevin Williams, he’s the best guy they have up front. At linebacker, I don’t know what’s going to happen with E.J. Henderson and his injury. Chad Greenway is a playmaker. …

“In the secondary, Antoine Winfield is a tough, physical tackler and by far their best guy back there. They don’t have a weak defense, but the lowest part of their defense is their secondary. That’s not to say they’re bad. I just don’t think they’re at the same level as the front.”

That seems 100% accurate to me
Some good points in there, but alot of rubbish too. Fact is this team has as much talent as any in the league.

The offensive line is not that good, but I really don't recall anyone saying they were. McKinnie shouldn't have made the pro-bowl that is true, but everyone already knows that.

Our recievers are more than just fast. Rice has great hands. Harvin is great after the catch. Berrian brings alot of leadership and experience. One of the most complete groups in the NFL, IMHO.
Adrian Peterson is very rarely famine, most of the time he's feast. Over 1800 hundred yards and 18 tds. He scored TD's in 12 of 16 games last year. In the 4 that he didn't score a TD he had 99yds, 166yds, 98yds, 65yds rushing/recieving. No back has been more consistant over the last 3 years.

Defense, yeah I agree they are stacked up the wazoo with talent.

Secondary, I agree. Not as good as the best defensive line in the NFL. That's really not saying much. Probably the area the team improved the most in the off-season.

They never say the Vikings aren't good.

They point out:
Our OL isn't very good (True)
McKinnie was a joke (True)
Favre bailed us out (True)
Speed at WR (True, I take that to mean more than just a team of Williamson's)
Shanks good(True)
Jimmy K Isn't as good as he was (True)
Dugan's solid (not the word I'd choose, but servicable)
We're good at stopping the run (True)
We can apply pressure (True)
RE, JA and KW are good to great players (True)
LB is a question without EJ (True)
AD is up and down at time (He struggles vs. certain fronts)
Winfield is a beast (True)
Our Secondary is the weak point (True)

What part there did I miss?

He never said winfield was a beast, he said he was the best. I don't think he's the best, I think griffen is better than him in the secondary.

12purplepride28
06-24-2010, 01:49 AM
I don't know why people say AP is so consistent. If you look at his runs its 1,2,5,-1,1,58,2,1,4,2,-3,1. That's basically exactly why his run analysis looks like, and he never seems to get that many yards against the packers. Both games they shut him down pretty well, the niners did a good job against him, so did the bears and panthers (if I remember correctly).

Fact is, he is very inconsistent at times, but maybe there in lies his consistency? It's 1 in the morning, I can't think right now. I love the vikings, at least we [except rock] all can agree on that.

i_bleed_purple
06-24-2010, 08:10 AM
12purplepride28 wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

jmcdon00 wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


You know what, their offensive line is not that good. They’re way overrated. It’s unbelievable. If they didn’t have Brett Favre, the number of times he gets them out of trouble is amazing. Left tackle Bryant McKinnie, it’s a joke that he made the Pro Bowl. A joke. …

“They have excellent speed at receiver. They have good balance at tight end—Visanthe Shiancoe can make big plays down the field, and Jimmy Kleinsasser isn’t what he used to be but still gives you a good day’s work. Jeff Dugan is solid. … Adrian Peterson is a little bit feast or famine. I think it will hurt them that they lost Chester Taylor because that was an excellent 1-2 punch. …

“Defensively, they’re solid. They do a good job stopping the run, and they get after the quarterback. Ray Edwards is a good player; Jared Allen is an excellent pass rusher. But Kevin Williams, he’s the best guy they have up front. At linebacker, I don’t know what’s going to happen with E.J. Henderson and his injury. Chad Greenway is a playmaker. …

“In the secondary, Antoine Winfield is a tough, physical tackler and by far their best guy back there. They don’t have a weak defense, but the lowest part of their defense is their secondary. That’s not to say they’re bad. I just don’t think they’re at the same level as the front.”

That seems 100% accurate to me
Some good points in there, but alot of rubbish too. Fact is this team has as much talent as any in the league.

The offensive line is not that good, but I really don't recall anyone saying they were. McKinnie shouldn't have made the pro-bowl that is true, but everyone already knows that.

Our recievers are more than just fast. Rice has great hands. Harvin is great after the catch. Berrian brings alot of leadership and experience. One of the most complete groups in the NFL, IMHO.
Adrian Peterson is very rarely famine, most of the time he's feast. Over 1800 hundred yards and 18 tds. He scored TD's in 12 of 16 games last year. In the 4 that he didn't score a TD he had 99yds, 166yds, 98yds, 65yds rushing/recieving. No back has been more consistant over the last 3 years.

Defense, yeah I agree they are stacked up the wazoo with talent.

Secondary, I agree. Not as good as the best defensive line in the NFL. That's really not saying much. Probably the area the team improved the most in the off-season.

They never say the Vikings aren't good.

They point out:
Our OL isn't very good (True)
McKinnie was a joke (True)
Favre bailed us out (True)
Speed at WR (True, I take that to mean more than just a team of Williamson's)
Shanks good(True)
Jimmy K Isn't as good as he was (True)
Dugan's solid (not the word I'd choose, but servicable)
We're good at stopping the run (True)
We can apply pressure (True)
RE, JA and KW are good to great players (True)
LB is a question without EJ (True)
AD is up and down at time (He struggles vs. certain fronts)
Winfield is a beast (True)
Our Secondary is the weak point (True)

What part there did I miss?

He never said winfield was a beast, he said he was the best. I don't think he's the best, I think griffen is better than him in the secondary.

Griffen won't be playing most likely to start the season, and will be slow. Winfield is a force out there. He might be a bit of a liability in the pass game, but our run game, and overall defensive attitude really increases when he's in there.


I don't know why people say AP is so consistent. If you look at his runs its 1,2,5,-1,1,58,2,1,4,2,-3,1. That's basically exactly why his run analysis looks like, and he never seems to get that many yards against the packers. Both games they shut him down pretty well, the niners did a good job against him, so did the bears and panthers (if I remember correctly).

Fact is, he is very inconsistent at times, but maybe there in lies his consistency? It's 1 in the morning, I can't think right now. I love the vikings, at least we [except rock] all can agree on that.

This is true. Peterson is not consistent. He's not a guy who actually averages 4.5 yards a carry. I bet if you took away the top and bottom 10% of his plays, yard-wise, his average would be in the 2's, maybe early 3's.

He also has games where he gets shut down. As well, his fumbles come in spurts. He had what, 6 fumbles this year? I think he had 3 in one game, two in another.. Thats pretty on or off to me. Calling him a hit or miss guy, although maybe not entirely accurate, is certainly not an outlandish claim

ejmat
06-24-2010, 08:36 AM
i_bleed_purple wrote:

12purplepride28 wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

jmcdon00 wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


You know what, their offensive line is not that good. They’re way overrated. It’s unbelievable. If they didn’t have Brett Favre, the number of times he gets them out of trouble is amazing. Left tackle Bryant McKinnie, it’s a joke that he made the Pro Bowl. A joke. …

“They have excellent speed at receiver. They have good balance at tight end—Visanthe Shiancoe can make big plays down the field, and Jimmy Kleinsasser isn’t what he used to be but still gives you a good day’s work. Jeff Dugan is solid. … Adrian Peterson is a little bit feast or famine. I think it will hurt them that they lost Chester Taylor because that was an excellent 1-2 punch. …

“Defensively, they’re solid. They do a good job stopping the run, and they get after the quarterback. Ray Edwards is a good player; Jared Allen is an excellent pass rusher. But Kevin Williams, he’s the best guy they have up front. At linebacker, I don’t know what’s going to happen with E.J. Henderson and his injury. Chad Greenway is a playmaker. …

“In the secondary, Antoine Winfield is a tough, physical tackler and by far their best guy back there. They don’t have a weak defense, but the lowest part of their defense is their secondary. That’s not to say they’re bad. I just don’t think they’re at the same level as the front.”

That seems 100% accurate to me
Some good points in there, but alot of rubbish too. Fact is this team has as much talent as any in the league.

The offensive line is not that good, but I really don't recall anyone saying they were. McKinnie shouldn't have made the pro-bowl that is true, but everyone already knows that.

Our recievers are more than just fast. Rice has great hands. Harvin is great after the catch. Berrian brings alot of leadership and experience. One of the most complete groups in the NFL, IMHO.
Adrian Peterson is very rarely famine, most of the time he's feast. Over 1800 hundred yards and 18 tds. He scored TD's in 12 of 16 games last year. In the 4 that he didn't score a TD he had 99yds, 166yds, 98yds, 65yds rushing/recieving. No back has been more consistant over the last 3 years.

Defense, yeah I agree they are stacked up the wazoo with talent.

Secondary, I agree. Not as good as the best defensive line in the NFL. That's really not saying much. Probably the area the team improved the most in the off-season.

They never say the Vikings aren't good.

They point out:
Our OL isn't very good (True)
McKinnie was a joke (True)
Favre bailed us out (True)
Speed at WR (True, I take that to mean more than just a team of Williamson's)
Shanks good(True)
Jimmy K Isn't as good as he was (True)
Dugan's solid (not the word I'd choose, but servicable)
We're good at stopping the run (True)
We can apply pressure (True)
RE, JA and KW are good to great players (True)
LB is a question without EJ (True)
AD is up and down at time (He struggles vs. certain fronts)
Winfield is a beast (True)
Our Secondary is the weak point (True)

What part there did I miss?

He never said winfield was a beast, he said he was the best. I don't think he's the best, I think griffen is better than him in the secondary.

Griffen won't be playing most likely to start the season, and will be slow. Winfield is a force out there. He might be a bit of a liability in the pass game, but our run game, and overall defensive attitude really increases when he's in there.


I don't know why people say AP is so consistent. If you look at his runs its 1,2,5,-1,1,58,2,1,4,2,-3,1. That's basically exactly why his run analysis looks like, and he never seems to get that many yards against the packers. Both games they shut him down pretty well, the niners did a good job against him, so did the bears and panthers (if I remember correctly).

Fact is, he is very inconsistent at times, but maybe there in lies his consistency? It's 1 in the morning, I can't think right now. I love the vikings, at least we [except rock] all can agree on that.

This is true. Peterson is not consistent. He's not a guy who actually averages 4.5 yards a carry. I bet if you took away the top and bottom 10% of his plays, yard-wise, his average would be in the 2's, maybe early 3's.

He also has games where he gets shut down. As well, his fumbles come in spurts. He had what, 6 fumbles this year? I think he had 3 in one game, two in another.. Thats pretty on or off to me. Calling him a hit or miss guy, although maybe not entirely accurate, is certainly not an outlandish claim

I agree 100% and I'm glad to see other people here realize this now. I've been slammed for saying these things for two years. Like I stated last year Chester Taylor was more of a complete back than AP. I still believe that. I never said AP was bad although many on here took it that way. He is still one of the most dangerous and best players in the league. But that seems to blindside people when assessing him. He has flaws in which he needs to work on.

That being said and I will get ridiculed when I say this, I believe AP has a "breakout" year this year. Many people think he's done that. But what I am talking about is he becomes a better blocker and doesn't fumble as much. I think he improved coming out of the backfield last year and I think he'll be even better this year. IN other words he will become that all around more consistent back.

I look forward to AP having a great season this year.

i_bleed_purple
06-24-2010, 08:40 AM
ejmat wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

12purplepride28 wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

jmcdon00 wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


You know what, their offensive line is not that good. They’re way overrated. It’s unbelievable. If they didn’t have Brett Favre, the number of times he gets them out of trouble is amazing. Left tackle Bryant McKinnie, it’s a joke that he made the Pro Bowl. A joke. …

“They have excellent speed at receiver. They have good balance at tight end—Visanthe Shiancoe can make big plays down the field, and Jimmy Kleinsasser isn’t what he used to be but still gives you a good day’s work. Jeff Dugan is solid. … Adrian Peterson is a little bit feast or famine. I think it will hurt them that they lost Chester Taylor because that was an excellent 1-2 punch. …

“Defensively, they’re solid. They do a good job stopping the run, and they get after the quarterback. Ray Edwards is a good player; Jared Allen is an excellent pass rusher. But Kevin Williams, he’s the best guy they have up front. At linebacker, I don’t know what’s going to happen with E.J. Henderson and his injury. Chad Greenway is a playmaker. …

“In the secondary, Antoine Winfield is a tough, physical tackler and by far their best guy back there. They don’t have a weak defense, but the lowest part of their defense is their secondary. That’s not to say they’re bad. I just don’t think they’re at the same level as the front.”

That seems 100% accurate to me
Some good points in there, but alot of rubbish too. Fact is this team has as much talent as any in the league.

The offensive line is not that good, but I really don't recall anyone saying they were. McKinnie shouldn't have made the pro-bowl that is true, but everyone already knows that.

Our recievers are more than just fast. Rice has great hands. Harvin is great after the catch. Berrian brings alot of leadership and experience. One of the most complete groups in the NFL, IMHO.
Adrian Peterson is very rarely famine, most of the time he's feast. Over 1800 hundred yards and 18 tds. He scored TD's in 12 of 16 games last year. In the 4 that he didn't score a TD he had 99yds, 166yds, 98yds, 65yds rushing/recieving. No back has been more consistant over the last 3 years.

Defense, yeah I agree they are stacked up the wazoo with talent.

Secondary, I agree. Not as good as the best defensive line in the NFL. That's really not saying much. Probably the area the team improved the most in the off-season.

They never say the Vikings aren't good.

They point out:
Our OL isn't very good (True)
McKinnie was a joke (True)
Favre bailed us out (True)
Speed at WR (True, I take that to mean more than just a team of Williamson's)
Shanks good(True)
Jimmy K Isn't as good as he was (True)
Dugan's solid (not the word I'd choose, but servicable)
We're good at stopping the run (True)
We can apply pressure (True)
RE, JA and KW are good to great players (True)
LB is a question without EJ (True)
AD is up and down at time (He struggles vs. certain fronts)
Winfield is a beast (True)
Our Secondary is the weak point (True)

What part there did I miss?

He never said winfield was a beast, he said he was the best. I don't think he's the best, I think griffen is better than him in the secondary.

Griffen won't be playing most likely to start the season, and will be slow. Winfield is a force out there. He might be a bit of a liability in the pass game, but our run game, and overall defensive attitude really increases when he's in there.


I don't know why people say AP is so consistent. If you look at his runs its 1,2,5,-1,1,58,2,1,4,2,-3,1. That's basically exactly why his run analysis looks like, and he never seems to get that many yards against the packers. Both games they shut him down pretty well, the niners did a good job against him, so did the bears and panthers (if I remember correctly).

Fact is, he is very inconsistent at times, but maybe there in lies his consistency? It's 1 in the morning, I can't think right now. I love the vikings, at least we [except rock] all can agree on that.

This is true. Peterson is not consistent. He's not a guy who actually averages 4.5 yards a carry. I bet if you took away the top and bottom 10% of his plays, yard-wise, his average would be in the 2's, maybe early 3's.

He also has games where he gets shut down. As well, his fumbles come in spurts. He had what, 6 fumbles this year? I think he had 3 in one game, two in another.. Thats pretty on or off to me. Calling him a hit or miss guy, although maybe not entirely accurate, is certainly not an outlandish claim

I agree 100% and I'm glad to see other people here realize this now. I've been slammed for saying these things for two years. Like I stated last year Chester Taylor was more of a complete back than AP. I still believe that. I never said AP was bad although many on here took it that way. He is still one of the most dangerous and best players in the league. But that seems to blindside people when assessing him. He has flaws in which he needs to work on.

That being said and I will get ridiculed when I say this, I believe AP has a "breakout" year this year. Many people think he's done that. But what I am talking about is he becomes a better blocker and doesn't fumble as much. I think he improved coming out of the backfield last year and I think he'll be even better this year. IN other words he will become that all around more consistent back.

I look forward to AP having a great season this year.

As far as improving other aspects of his game, Peterson improved. I think Peterson's running game has been going downhill since his rookie season.

It could be just me, but he seemed faster and more explosive his rookie season (He also had a much better line then too).

His ypc average has been dwindling, his y/g average is decreasing. Peterson was on pace to shatter Dickerson's rookie record and top 2000 yards as a rookie until he got hurt.

Part of it might be that teams just didn't know how to shut him down.

Marrdro
06-24-2010, 09:11 AM
marshallvike wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


You know what, their offensive line is not that good. They’re way overrated. It’s unbelievable. If they didn’t have Brett Favre, the number of times he gets them out of trouble is amazing. Left tackle Bryant McKinnie, it’s a joke that he made the Pro Bowl. A joke. …

“They have excellent speed at receiver. They have good balance at tight end—Visanthe Shiancoe can make big plays down the field, and Jimmy Kleinsasser isn’t what he used to be but still gives you a good day’s work. Jeff Dugan is solid. … Adrian Peterson is a little bit feast or famine. I think it will hurt them that they lost Chester Taylor because that was an excellent 1-2 punch. …

“Defensively, they’re solid. They do a good job stopping the run, and they get after the quarterback. Ray Edwards is a good player; Jared Allen is an excellent pass rusher. But Kevin Williams, he’s the best guy they have up front. At linebacker, I don’t know what’s going to happen with E.J. Henderson and his injury. Chad Greenway is a playmaker. …

“In the secondary, Antoine Winfield is a tough, physical tackler and by far their best guy back there. They don’t have a weak defense, but the lowest part of their defense is their secondary. That’s not to say they’re bad. I just don’t think they’re at the same level as the front.”

That seems 100% accurate to me
Other than maybe the Winfield comment about being the best guy back there along with the Chester Taylor loss will hurt us comment, yes, I agree.

come on marr. how more proof do you need. stated right here in black and white by an oppoonent who doesn't have the stones to put his name to his comments.
I'm going with it.

Winfield is the best!!!
I like to watch him beat a TE and get the tackle right along with the next guy, but I also know that he has never been lauded as a good "Cover" guy.


The best? Not even on this team my friend. Even ole Asher got him a sack on a CB blitz last year. On a side note, I loved that call by Leslie last year. Double Corner Blitz. ;)

Marrdro
06-24-2010, 09:15 AM
i_bleed_purple wrote:


Griffen won't be playing most likely to start the season, and will be slow. Winfield is a force out there. He might be a bit of a liability in the pass game, but our run game, and overall defensive attitude really increases when he's in there.

A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.

By the way, other than the game were Whinny got injured and guys were shoved in there, our defense played better without him than they did with him.

i_bleed_purple
06-24-2010, 09:24 AM
Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


Griffen won't be playing most likely to start the season, and will be slow. Winfield is a force out there. He might be a bit of a liability in the pass game, but our run game, and overall defensive attitude really increases when he's in there.

A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.

By the way, other than the game were Whinny got injured and guys were shoved in there, our defense played better without him than they did with him.

Funny, in regards to sticking up for our lack of interceptions, etc. You are the first to claim that Cover 2 corner's primary responsibility are flat zones and Run Support, saying they aren't, and will never be shutdown corners.

Has that view changed? Or just for arguments sake today?

Marrdro
06-24-2010, 09:32 AM
i_bleed_purple wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


Griffen won't be playing most likely to start the season, and will be slow. Winfield is a force out there. He might be a bit of a liability in the pass game, but our run game, and overall defensive attitude really increases when he's in there.

A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.

By the way, other than the game were Whinny got injured and guys were shoved in there, our defense played better without him than they did with him.

Funny, in regards to sticking up for our lack of interceptions, etc. You are the first to claim that Cover 2 corner's primary responsibility are flat zones and Run Support, saying they aren't, and will never be shutdown corners.

Has that view changed? Or just for arguments sake today?
I have never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever said anything of the sort. Go get me a quote.

Again, you take what you think I say and change it to make your point. You been hanging out with Mars I think?

I have always said basically the same thing. I want our CB's to think pass first, run second. Whinny doesn't do that. He gets caught cheating down alot.

Readers digest of my stance.......

In the pass.......I want our our DL to get pressure on the QB, I want our LB'rs to drop into the short zones, and I want our CB's to defend the stuff that comes into thier zones and I want the S's to be ready to take the handoff of those recievers when they go deep.

In the run.....I want everyone to help out as thier role dictates but basically, I want the DL to eat up blockers which should free up our LB'rs to make tackles. I want our DL to get a push off the line and if possible, get tackles for losses. I want our S's willing and able to get in the box and support the run when the first two lines don't work and I want the CB to help if they aren't running with a WR in a route.

The last person who should be looking/thinking run is a CB.

Again, you go find something from me were I said anything other than that.

i_bleed_purple
06-24-2010, 09:39 AM
Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


Griffen won't be playing most likely to start the season, and will be slow. Winfield is a force out there. He might be a bit of a liability in the pass game, but our run game, and overall defensive attitude really increases when he's in there.

A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.

By the way, other than the game were Whinny got injured and guys were shoved in there, our defense played better without him than they did with him.

Funny, in regards to sticking up for our lack of interceptions, etc. You are the first to claim that Cover 2 corner's primary responsibility are flat zones and Run Support, saying they aren't, and will never be shutdown corners.

Has that view changed? Or just for arguments sake today?
I have never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever said anything of the sort. Go get me a quote. I'm not going searching, but you have. Especially a year or two ago when we were hard on Griffen for the most part. People claim our secondary sucks, and you bring out the whole line about how our scheme doesn't call for a shut-down type of player.



Again, you take what you think I say and change it to make your point. You been hanging out with Mars I think? This isn't new. You say something, then go back on it later and claim you never said it.



I have always said basically the same thing. Now its your turn, get me a quote

Marrdro
06-24-2010, 09:47 AM
i_bleed_purple wrote:


Funny, in regards to sticking up for our lack of interceptions, etc. You are the first to claim that Cover 2 corner's primary responsibility are flat zones and Run Support, saying they aren't, and will never be shutdown corners.
Talking about a Cover 2 CB not being a "Shut Down" corner is one thing, trying to say that I said that about flat zones and run support is another.


Now its your turn, get me a quote
You don't have to go far. Look in the post a few above this. Basically what I say all the time about Whinny.....


A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.

jargomcfargo
06-24-2010, 10:39 AM
Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


Funny, in regards to sticking up for our lack of interceptions, etc. You are the first to claim that Cover 2 corner's primary responsibility are flat zones and Run Support, saying they aren't, and will never be shutdown corners.
Talking about a Cover 2 CB not being a "Shut Down" corner is one thing, trying to say that I said that about flat zones and run support is another.


Now its your turn, get me a quote
You don't have to go far. Look in the post a few above this. Basically what I say all the time about Whinny.....


A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.


Winfield caught cheating down on the run?
That would be rare.
Winfield doesn't get beat over the top very often because he gives up too much cushion.
That's why he has issues as a cover corner.

i_bleed_purple
06-24-2010, 10:42 AM
jargomcfargo wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


Funny, in regards to sticking up for our lack of interceptions, etc. You are the first to claim that Cover 2 corner's primary responsibility are flat zones and Run Support, saying they aren't, and will never be shutdown corners.
Talking about a Cover 2 CB not being a "Shut Down" corner is one thing, trying to say that I said that about flat zones and run support is another.


Now its your turn, get me a quote
You don't have to go far. Look in the post a few above this. Basically what I say all the time about Whinny.....


A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.


Winfield caught cheating down on the run?
That would be rare.
Winfield doesn't get beat over the top very often because he gives up too much cushion.
That's why he has issues as a cover corner.

seems right. Winfield doesn't play bump and run very much. Where he excels, is by breaking off his coverage and filling in quickly to stop the carrier. He's got a knack for avoiding blockers and bringing down the ball carrier, both on defense and special teams. He can stay with his guy, unless they're exceptionally fast. He doesn't have the best ball skills though, but he' can make the tackle after the catch, which is another think you (Marrdro) Claim is so important for our corners.

jargomcfargo
06-24-2010, 10:47 AM
i_bleed_purple wrote:

jargomcfargo wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


Funny, in regards to sticking up for our lack of interceptions, etc. You are the first to claim that Cover 2 corner's primary responsibility are flat zones and Run Support, saying they aren't, and will never be shutdown corners.
Talking about a Cover 2 CB not being a "Shut Down" corner is one thing, trying to say that I said that about flat zones and run support is another.


Now its your turn, get me a quote
You don't have to go far. Look in the post a few above this. Basically what I say all the time about Whinny.....


A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.


Winfield caught cheating down on the run?
That would be rare.
Winfield doesn't get beat over the top very often because he gives up too much cushion.
That's why he has issues as a cover corner.

seems right. Winfield doesn't play bump and run very much. Where he excels, is by breaking off his coverage and filling in quickly to stop the carrier. He's got a knack for avoiding blockers and bringing down the ball carrier, both on defense and special teams. He can stay with his guy, unless they're exceptionally fast. He doesn't have the best ball skills though, but he' can make the tackle after the catch, which is another think you (Marrdro) Claim is so important for our corners.

I agree. That's why I also believe he is the best DB on our team.
Our issues are primarily at the safety position.
Johnson scares me and Williams is inconsistant. I actually hope Sanford gets more playing time this season.

Marrdro
06-24-2010, 10:47 AM
jargomcfargo wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


Funny, in regards to sticking up for our lack of interceptions, etc. You are the first to claim that Cover 2 corner's primary responsibility are flat zones and Run Support, saying they aren't, and will never be shutdown corners.
Talking about a Cover 2 CB not being a "Shut Down" corner is one thing, trying to say that I said that about flat zones and run support is another.


Now its your turn, get me a quote
You don't have to go far. Look in the post a few above this. Basically what I say all the time about Whinny.....


A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.


Winfield caught cheating down on the run?
That would be rare.
Winfield doesn't get beat over the top very often because he gives up too much cushion.
That's why he has issues as a cover corner.
Actually it isn't as rare as you think.

Goes back to the whole "Leslie" play calling vs "Is it Whinny doing it" discussion.

Do we blame Leslie, do we blame Whinny, do we blame the MLB? I tend to blame Whinny as you very seldom see Griff or any of the other CBs take thier fist steps to the LOS vice running with the WR.

Marrdro
06-24-2010, 10:49 AM
i_bleed_purple wrote:

jargomcfargo wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


Funny, in regards to sticking up for our lack of interceptions, etc. You are the first to claim that Cover 2 corner's primary responsibility are flat zones and Run Support, saying they aren't, and will never be shutdown corners.
Talking about a Cover 2 CB not being a "Shut Down" corner is one thing, trying to say that I said that about flat zones and run support is another.


Now its your turn, get me a quote
You don't have to go far. Look in the post a few above this. Basically what I say all the time about Whinny.....


A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.


Winfield caught cheating down on the run?
That would be rare.
Winfield doesn't get beat over the top very often because he gives up too much cushion.
That's why he has issues as a cover corner.

seems right. Winfield doesn't play bump and run very much. Where he excels, is by breaking off his coverage and filling in quickly to stop the carrier. He's got a knack for avoiding blockers and bringing down the ball carrier, both on defense and special teams. He can stay with his guy, unless they're exceptionally fast. He doesn't have the best ball skills though, but he' can make the tackle after the catch, which is another think you (Marrdro) Claim is so important for our corners.
I do say that.

In pass coverage, a Cover 2 CB should keep the WR in front of him, unless, by design, he has to hand him off to the S (usually when a TE or a RB comes out into his zone) as a reciever.

What I see Whinny do, is bite on the play action and leave his guy to soon. Happens alot IMHO.

Heck, it happened so much that 2 years ago I advocated moving him to S. Anyone remember that thread?

Marrdro
06-24-2010, 10:51 AM
jargomcfargo wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

jargomcfargo wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


Funny, in regards to sticking up for our lack of interceptions, etc. You are the first to claim that Cover 2 corner's primary responsibility are flat zones and Run Support, saying they aren't, and will never be shutdown corners.
Talking about a Cover 2 CB not being a "Shut Down" corner is one thing, trying to say that I said that about flat zones and run support is another.


Now its your turn, get me a quote
You don't have to go far. Look in the post a few above this. Basically what I say all the time about Whinny.....


A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.


Winfield caught cheating down on the run?
That would be rare.
Winfield doesn't get beat over the top very often because he gives up too much cushion.
That's why he has issues as a cover corner.

seems right. Winfield doesn't play bump and run very much. Where he excels, is by breaking off his coverage and filling in quickly to stop the carrier. He's got a knack for avoiding blockers and bringing down the ball carrier, both on defense and special teams. He can stay with his guy, unless they're exceptionally fast. He doesn't have the best ball skills though, but he' can make the tackle after the catch, which is another think you (Marrdro) Claim is so important for our corners.

I agree. That's why I also believe he is the best DB on our team.
Our issues are primarily at the safety position.
Johnson scares me and Williams is inconsistant. I actually hope Sanford gets more playing time this season.
Would you say that sometimes our S's get caught out of position, and sometimes that happens because of what some people do in front of them?

i_bleed_purple
06-24-2010, 10:52 AM
Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

jargomcfargo wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


Funny, in regards to sticking up for our lack of interceptions, etc. You are the first to claim that Cover 2 corner's primary responsibility are flat zones and Run Support, saying they aren't, and will never be shutdown corners.
Talking about a Cover 2 CB not being a "Shut Down" corner is one thing, trying to say that I said that about flat zones and run support is another.


Now its your turn, get me a quote
You don't have to go far. Look in the post a few above this. Basically what I say all the time about Whinny.....


A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.


Winfield caught cheating down on the run?
That would be rare.
Winfield doesn't get beat over the top very often because he gives up too much cushion.
That's why he has issues as a cover corner.

seems right. Winfield doesn't play bump and run very much. Where he excels, is by breaking off his coverage and filling in quickly to stop the carrier. He's got a knack for avoiding blockers and bringing down the ball carrier, both on defense and special teams. He can stay with his guy, unless they're exceptionally fast. He doesn't have the best ball skills though, but he' can make the tackle after the catch, which is another think you (Marrdro) Claim is so important for our corners.
I do say that.

In pass coverage, a Cover 2 CB should keep the WR in front of him, unless, by design, he has to hand him off to the S (usually when a TE or a RB comes out into his zone) as a reciever.

What I see Whinny do, is bite on the play action and leave his guy to soon. Happens alot IMHO.

Heck, it happened so much that 2 years ago I advocated moving him to S. Anyone remember that thread?

soo... you think a guy who 'bites on play action' would be better as a S in the cover 2 where there's nobody to clean up his mistake?

Marrdro
06-24-2010, 10:56 AM
i_bleed_purple wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

jargomcfargo wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


Funny, in regards to sticking up for our lack of interceptions, etc. You are the first to claim that Cover 2 corner's primary responsibility are flat zones and Run Support, saying they aren't, and will never be shutdown corners.
Talking about a Cover 2 CB not being a "Shut Down" corner is one thing, trying to say that I said that about flat zones and run support is another.


Now its your turn, get me a quote
You don't have to go far. Look in the post a few above this. Basically what I say all the time about Whinny.....


A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.


Winfield caught cheating down on the run?
That would be rare.
Winfield doesn't get beat over the top very often because he gives up too much cushion.
That's why he has issues as a cover corner.

seems right. Winfield doesn't play bump and run very much. Where he excels, is by breaking off his coverage and filling in quickly to stop the carrier. He's got a knack for avoiding blockers and bringing down the ball carrier, both on defense and special teams. He can stay with his guy, unless they're exceptionally fast. He doesn't have the best ball skills though, but he' can make the tackle after the catch, which is another think you (Marrdro) Claim is so important for our corners.
I do say that.

In pass coverage, a Cover 2 CB should keep the WR in front of him, unless, by design, he has to hand him off to the S (usually when a TE or a RB comes out into his zone) as a reciever.

What I see Whinny do, is bite on the play action and leave his guy to soon. Happens alot IMHO.

Heck, it happened so much that 2 years ago I advocated moving him to S. Anyone remember that thread?

soo... you think a guy who 'bites on play action' would be better as a S in the cover 2 where there's nobody to clean up his mistake?
Good point.

Going back to what I always say, I've always said that I really think we need to get rid of Whinny. Moving him to S kindof was a "Negate his Play" move at that time.

i_bleed_purple
06-24-2010, 11:00 AM
Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

jargomcfargo wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


Funny, in regards to sticking up for our lack of interceptions, etc. You are the first to claim that Cover 2 corner's primary responsibility are flat zones and Run Support, saying they aren't, and will never be shutdown corners.
Talking about a Cover 2 CB not being a "Shut Down" corner is one thing, trying to say that I said that about flat zones and run support is another.


Now its your turn, get me a quote
You don't have to go far. Look in the post a few above this. Basically what I say all the time about Whinny.....


A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.


Winfield caught cheating down on the run?
That would be rare.
Winfield doesn't get beat over the top very often because he gives up too much cushion.
That's why he has issues as a cover corner.

seems right. Winfield doesn't play bump and run very much. Where he excels, is by breaking off his coverage and filling in quickly to stop the carrier. He's got a knack for avoiding blockers and bringing down the ball carrier, both on defense and special teams. He can stay with his guy, unless they're exceptionally fast. He doesn't have the best ball skills though, but he' can make the tackle after the catch, which is another think you (Marrdro) Claim is so important for our corners.
I do say that.

In pass coverage, a Cover 2 CB should keep the WR in front of him, unless, by design, he has to hand him off to the S (usually when a TE or a RB comes out into his zone) as a reciever.

What I see Whinny do, is bite on the play action and leave his guy to soon. Happens alot IMHO.

Heck, it happened so much that 2 years ago I advocated moving him to S. Anyone remember that thread?

soo... you think a guy who 'bites on play action' would be better as a S in the cover 2 where there's nobody to clean up his mistake?
Good point.

Going back to what I always say, I've always said that I really think we need to get rid of Whinny. Moving him to S kindof was a "Negate his Play" move at that time.


Winny is fine in the Cover 2 as a corner. He can cover his zone fairly well, he has good instincts. Where he seems to do poorly is in man cover situations. As well last year he seemed even worse, as I don't think his foot was fine, despite what he claimed, the bears game comes to mind. He can shed blockers, and step up against the run. I think we're spoiled with our run defense, as we don't appreciate how important that is. When our Safeties aren't particualrly good against the run, our corners need to step up. Off tackle and sweep plays, if not properly contained by the corner, can turn real ugly real fast.

I played corner in high school. One thing they stress is to contain the outside. Just like on punt coverage. Don't let the back get outside of you, or he's gone. Linebackers won't be able to catch a fast back, and usually by the time the safeties get there, its a first down already. A Corner who can position himself so that the runner is forced inside where the LB's can clean up is an asset. Both Winny and Griffen do that well. When Winny was out and Sapp was in, we saw a bit of a dropoff in that department.

jargomcfargo
06-24-2010, 11:13 AM
Marrdro wrote:

jargomcfargo wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

jargomcfargo wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


Funny, in regards to sticking up for our lack of interceptions, etc. You are the first to claim that Cover 2 corner's primary responsibility are flat zones and Run Support, saying they aren't, and will never be shutdown corners.
Talking about a Cover 2 CB not being a "Shut Down" corner is one thing, trying to say that I said that about flat zones and run support is another.


Now its your turn, get me a quote
You don't have to go far. Look in the post a few above this. Basically what I say all the time about Whinny.....


A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.


Winfield caught cheating down on the run?
That would be rare.
Winfield doesn't get beat over the top very often because he gives up too much cushion.
That's why he has issues as a cover corner.

seems right. Winfield doesn't play bump and run very much. Where he excels, is by breaking off his coverage and filling in quickly to stop the carrier. He's got a knack for avoiding blockers and bringing down the ball carrier, both on defense and special teams. He can stay with his guy, unless they're exceptionally fast. He doesn't have the best ball skills though, but he' can make the tackle after the catch, which is another think you (Marrdro) Claim is so important for our corners.

I agree. That's why I also believe he is the best DB on our team.
Our issues are primarily at the safety position.
Johnson scares me and Williams is inconsistant. I actually hope Sanford gets more playing time this season.
Would you say that sometimes our S's get caught out of position, and sometimes that happens because of what some people do in front of them?

Yes, sometimes that was the case.
But Johnson was out of position so much I have a hard time blaming the corner.

i_bleed_purple
06-24-2010, 11:22 AM
jargomcfargo wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

jargomcfargo wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

jargomcfargo wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


Funny, in regards to sticking up for our lack of interceptions, etc. You are the first to claim that Cover 2 corner's primary responsibility are flat zones and Run Support, saying they aren't, and will never be shutdown corners.
Talking about a Cover 2 CB not being a "Shut Down" corner is one thing, trying to say that I said that about flat zones and run support is another.


Now its your turn, get me a quote
You don't have to go far. Look in the post a few above this. Basically what I say all the time about Whinny.....


A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.


Winfield caught cheating down on the run?
That would be rare.
Winfield doesn't get beat over the top very often because he gives up too much cushion.
That's why he has issues as a cover corner.

seems right. Winfield doesn't play bump and run very much. Where he excels, is by breaking off his coverage and filling in quickly to stop the carrier. He's got a knack for avoiding blockers and bringing down the ball carrier, both on defense and special teams. He can stay with his guy, unless they're exceptionally fast. He doesn't have the best ball skills though, but he' can make the tackle after the catch, which is another think you (Marrdro) Claim is so important for our corners.

I agree. That's why I also believe he is the best DB on our team.
Our issues are primarily at the safety position.
Johnson scares me and Williams is inconsistant. I actually hope Sanford gets more playing time this season.
Would you say that sometimes our S's get caught out of position, and sometimes that happens because of what some people do in front of them?

Yes, sometimes that was the case.
But Johnson was out of position so much I have a hard time blaming the corner.

this.

Look back to some games, steelers and packers x 2 come to mind. How many times did we see big seam passes down the middle go for big gains or TD's because the safeties were so badly out of position?

I think the one long one in the steelers game to eitehr Wallace or Holmes, TJ was on the OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE FIEDL! There were two guys in the deep right zone, nobody in deep left.

V4L
06-24-2010, 11:22 AM
Marrdro just dislikes all of our good players

Favre
Winny
Longwell

He will start to dislike Allen more and more if he keeps convincing himself Edwards is almost as good

12purplepride28
06-24-2010, 11:26 AM
Marrdro wrote:


By the way, other than the game were Whinny got injured and guys were shoved in there, our defense played better without him than they did with him.

woah woah woah, I can't agree with you there. Ya winfield is primarily a run first cornerback, which obviously isn't ideal, but you can't deny the intensity he brings. Just look at the bengals game from last year, it was the first game antoine was back from his injury, and you could tell he was excited to be back. Just some of the hits he dished out were amazing, and you could tell that it helped the defense as a whole shut down an normally potent bengals offense.

So yah, winfield is a great run defender, an average pass defender, but the veteran leadership and intensity he brings to our defense is one of those indefinable qualities that makes teams keep veterans around.

i_bleed_purple
06-24-2010, 11:39 AM
12purplepride28 wrote:

Marrdro wrote:


By the way, other than the game were Whinny got injured and guys were shoved in there, our defense played better without him than they did with him.

woah woah woah, I can't agree with you there. Ya winfield is primarily a run first cornerback, which obviously isn't ideal, but you can't deny the intensity he brings. Just look at the bengals game from last year, it was the first game antoine was back from his injury, and you could tell he was excited to be back. Just some of the hits he dished out were amazing, and you could tell that it helped the defense as a whole shut down an normally potent bengals offense.

So yah, winfield is a great run defender, an average pass defender, but the veteran leadership and intensity he brings to our defense is one of those indefinable qualities that makes teams keep veterans around.

its partially true.

We gave up 385 yards in the air against the Ravens without Winfield
We also gave up 7.7ypc to Rice

I think our pass defense improved after a bit when Winny was gone, but our Run Defense really suffered. We couldn't stop the outside runs very well, and teams ran more.

We gave up 5.6 ypc on the ground vs. the Steelers without Winny

We gave up 287 yds and 3 TD"s vs. the packers
and 5.5 ypc to grant and Rodgers

Now that I look at it, our only good game without Winny really was the Steelers. We got toasted vs. ravens and packers.

Even Matt Stafford put up 224, 1 TD
and they rusehd for 4.2 ypc, 5.2 if you take away Maurice MOrris' pitiful carries.

Hasslebeck passed for 73% and 231 yards, but no TD`s. They didn`t try running much though.

Thats certainly not what I`d call playing `Better``

Marrdro
06-24-2010, 11:49 AM
12purplepride28 wrote:

Marrdro wrote:


By the way, other than the game were Whinny got injured and guys were shoved in there, our defense played better without him than they did with him.

woah woah woah, I can't agree with you there. Ya winfield is primarily a run first cornerback, which obviously isn't ideal, but you can't deny the intensity he brings. Just look at the bengals game from last year, it was the first game antoine was back from his injury, and you could tell he was excited to be back. Just some of the hits he dished out were amazing, and you could tell that it helped the defense as a whole shut down an normally potent bengals offense.

So yah, winfield is a great run defender, an average pass defender, but the veteran leadership and intensity he brings to our defense is one of those indefinable qualities that makes teams keep veterans around.
When I say better, I actually mean I thought they did better (in the pass protection area).

That doesn't mean I wouldn't want to see the whole cover 2 scrapped for a traditional "Press/Man" coverage system nor does it take away from the "intensity" that Whinny brings.

Again, most aren't gonna like it, but I believe by the end of the year we will see someone other than Whinny starting this year, even if he stays healthy.

My guess, the staff agree's with me mostly based on the clauses we saw in his contract.

Marrdro
06-24-2010, 11:51 AM
i_bleed_purple wrote:

12purplepride28 wrote:

Marrdro wrote:


By the way, other than the game were Whinny got injured and guys were shoved in there, our defense played better without him than they did with him.

woah woah woah, I can't agree with you there. Ya winfield is primarily a run first cornerback, which obviously isn't ideal, but you can't deny the intensity he brings. Just look at the bengals game from last year, it was the first game antoine was back from his injury, and you could tell he was excited to be back. Just some of the hits he dished out were amazing, and you could tell that it helped the defense as a whole shut down an normally potent bengals offense.

So yah, winfield is a great run defender, an average pass defender, but the veteran leadership and intensity he brings to our defense is one of those indefinable qualities that makes teams keep veterans around.

its partially true.

We gave up 385 yards in the air against the Ravens without Winfield
We also gave up 7.7ypc to Rice

I think our pass defense improved after a bit when Winny was gone, but our Run Defense really suffered. We couldn't stop the outside runs very well, and teams ran more.

We gave up 5.6 ypc on the ground vs. the Steelers without Winny

We gave up 287 yds and 3 TD"s vs. the packers
and 5.5 ypc to grant and Rodgers

Now that I look at it, our only good game without Winny really was the Steelers. We got toasted vs. ravens and packers.

Even Matt Stafford put up 224, 1 TD
and they rusehd for 4.2 ypc, 5.2 if you take away Maurice MOrris' pitiful carries.

Hasslebeck passed for 73% and 231 yards, but no TD`s. They didn`t try running much though.

Thats certainly not what I`d call playing `Better``
But you are looking at, mostly, Whinny's absence as being the blame for the increased run averages. I look at what happens in that Ravens game and see alot of runs that weren't to his side, even if he was in there.

As to the pass yardages, I can go and pull up games were he was in there when we got chewed up. Does that mean Whinny had a bad game or does it mean our DL didn't get pressure.

Kindof an apples and oranges thing on both counts if you ask me.

jargomcfargo
06-24-2010, 11:56 AM
i_bleed_purple wrote:

12purplepride28 wrote:

Marrdro wrote:


By the way, other than the game were Whinny got injured and guys were shoved in there, our defense played better without him than they did with him.

woah woah woah, I can't agree with you there. Ya winfield is primarily a run first cornerback, which obviously isn't ideal, but you can't deny the intensity he brings. Just look at the bengals game from last year, it was the first game antoine was back from his injury, and you could tell he was excited to be back. Just some of the hits he dished out were amazing, and you could tell that it helped the defense as a whole shut down an normally potent bengals offense.

So yah, winfield is a great run defender, an average pass defender, but the veteran leadership and intensity he brings to our defense is one of those indefinable qualities that makes teams keep veterans around.

its partially true.

We gave up 385 yards in the air against the Ravens without Winfield
We also gave up 7.7ypc to Rice

I think our pass defense improved after a bit when Winny was gone, but our Run Defense really suffered. We couldn't stop the outside runs very well, and teams ran more.

We gave up 5.6 ypc on the ground vs. the Steelers without Winny

We gave up 287 yds and 3 TD"s vs. the packers
and 5.5 ypc to grant and Rodgers

Now that I look at it, our only good game without Winny really was the Steelers. We got toasted vs. ravens and packers.

Even Matt Stafford put up 224, 1 TD
and they rusehd for 4.2 ypc, 5.2 if you take away Maurice MOrris' pitiful carries.

Hasslebeck passed for 73% and 231 yards, but no TD`s. They didn`t try running much though.

Thats certainly not what I`d call playing `Better``

Right on the money.
I'll throw Marrdro a bone on Winnie.
He has been known for his tackling prowess and run support since his college days, but also has been known as a man who can be beat deep and requires safety help over the top.

So in general our pass defense may have improved when he was injured, but our run defense suffered. Neither one to a great degree however.

i_bleed_purple
06-24-2010, 11:59 AM
Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

12purplepride28 wrote:

Marrdro wrote:


By the way, other than the game were Whinny got injured and guys were shoved in there, our defense played better without him than they did with him.

woah woah woah, I can't agree with you there. Ya winfield is primarily a run first cornerback, which obviously isn't ideal, but you can't deny the intensity he brings. Just look at the bengals game from last year, it was the first game antoine was back from his injury, and you could tell he was excited to be back. Just some of the hits he dished out were amazing, and you could tell that it helped the defense as a whole shut down an normally potent bengals offense.

So yah, winfield is a great run defender, an average pass defender, but the veteran leadership and intensity he brings to our defense is one of those indefinable qualities that makes teams keep veterans around.

its partially true.

We gave up 385 yards in the air against the Ravens without Winfield
We also gave up 7.7ypc to Rice

I think our pass defense improved after a bit when Winny was gone, but our Run Defense really suffered. We couldn't stop the outside runs very well, and teams ran more.

We gave up 5.6 ypc on the ground vs. the Steelers without Winny

We gave up 287 yds and 3 TD"s vs. the packers
and 5.5 ypc to grant and Rodgers

Now that I look at it, our only good game without Winny really was the Steelers. We got toasted vs. ravens and packers.

Even Matt Stafford put up 224, 1 TD
and they rusehd for 4.2 ypc, 5.2 if you take away Maurice MOrris' pitiful carries.

Hasslebeck passed for 73% and 231 yards, but no TD`s. They didn`t try running much though.

Thats certainly not what I`d call playing `Better``
But you are looking at, mostly, Whinny's absence as being the blame for the increased run averages. I look at what happens in that Ravens game and see alot of runs that weren't to his side, even if he was in there.

As to the pass yardages, I can go and pull up games were he was in there when we got chewed up. Does that mean Whinny had a bad game or does it mean our DL didn't get pressure.

Kindof an apples and oranges thing on both counts if you ask me.

I'm not trying to prove winny's absence as being a blame for improved run game, just an observation I made.

What I'm pointing out is our pass defense did not improve with winny gone like you claim. In fact, quite the opposite.

From those games, we gave up an average of: 260.4yards in those 5 games, our average that year was 218.4 yards per game, including those 5, meaning if you don't include them, it was significantly better. I don't have the time or effort to go indepth with things like 3rd down %, etc.

But its certainly not better without Winny.

i_bleed_purple
06-24-2010, 12:01 PM
jargomcfargo wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

12purplepride28 wrote:

Marrdro wrote:


By the way, other than the game were Whinny got injured and guys were shoved in there, our defense played better without him than they did with him.

woah woah woah, I can't agree with you there. Ya winfield is primarily a run first cornerback, which obviously isn't ideal, but you can't deny the intensity he brings. Just look at the bengals game from last year, it was the first game antoine was back from his injury, and you could tell he was excited to be back. Just some of the hits he dished out were amazing, and you could tell that it helped the defense as a whole shut down an normally potent bengals offense.

So yah, winfield is a great run defender, an average pass defender, but the veteran leadership and intensity he brings to our defense is one of those indefinable qualities that makes teams keep veterans around.

its partially true.

We gave up 385 yards in the air against the Ravens without Winfield
We also gave up 7.7ypc to Rice

I think our pass defense improved after a bit when Winny was gone, but our Run Defense really suffered. We couldn't stop the outside runs very well, and teams ran more.

We gave up 5.6 ypc on the ground vs. the Steelers without Winny

We gave up 287 yds and 3 TD"s vs. the packers
and 5.5 ypc to grant and Rodgers

Now that I look at it, our only good game without Winny really was the Steelers. We got toasted vs. ravens and packers.

Even Matt Stafford put up 224, 1 TD
and they rusehd for 4.2 ypc, 5.2 if you take away Maurice MOrris' pitiful carries.

Hasslebeck passed for 73% and 231 yards, but no TD`s. They didn`t try running much though.

Thats certainly not what I`d call playing `Better``

Right on the money.
I'll throw Marrdro a bone on Winnie.
He has been known for his tackling prowess and run support since his college days, but also has been known as a man who can be beat deep and requires safety help over the top.

So in general our pass defense may have improved when he was injured, but our run defense suffered. Neither one to a great degree however.

the last bit isn't true. Despite poopular belief, our pass defense did not improve, quite the opposite actually.

We gave up on average 218 pass yards per game. Over those 5 games listed, we gave up 260 yards per game. Definitely not an improvement.

jargomcfargo
06-24-2010, 12:03 PM
i_bleed_purple wrote:

jargomcfargo wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

12purplepride28 wrote:

Marrdro wrote:


By the way, other than the game were Whinny got injured and guys were shoved in there, our defense played better without him than they did with him.

woah woah woah, I can't agree with you there. Ya winfield is primarily a run first cornerback, which obviously isn't ideal, but you can't deny the intensity he brings. Just look at the bengals game from last year, it was the first game antoine was back from his injury, and you could tell he was excited to be back. Just some of the hits he dished out were amazing, and you could tell that it helped the defense as a whole shut down an normally potent bengals offense.

So yah, winfield is a great run defender, an average pass defender, but the veteran leadership and intensity he brings to our defense is one of those indefinable qualities that makes teams keep veterans around.

its partially true.

We gave up 385 yards in the air against the Ravens without Winfield
We also gave up 7.7ypc to Rice

I think our pass defense improved after a bit when Winny was gone, but our Run Defense really suffered. We couldn't stop the outside runs very well, and teams ran more.

We gave up 5.6 ypc on the ground vs. the Steelers without Winny

We gave up 287 yds and 3 TD"s vs. the packers
and 5.5 ypc to grant and Rodgers

Now that I look at it, our only good game without Winny really was the Steelers. We got toasted vs. ravens and packers.

Even Matt Stafford put up 224, 1 TD
and they rusehd for 4.2 ypc, 5.2 if you take away Maurice MOrris' pitiful carries.

Hasslebeck passed for 73% and 231 yards, but no TD`s. They didn`t try running much though.

Thats certainly not what I`d call playing `Better``

Right on the money.
I'll throw Marrdro a bone on Winnie.
He has been known for his tackling prowess and run support since his college days, but also has been known as a man who can be beat deep and requires safety help over the top.

So in general our pass defense may have improved when he was injured, but our run defense suffered. Neither one to a great degree however.

the last bit isn't true. Despite poopular belief, our pass defense did not improve, quite the opposite actually.

We gave up on average 218 pass yards per game. Over those 5 games listed, we gave up 260 yards per game. Definitely not an improvement.

Who was propagating that myth on here? :unsure:

i_bleed_purple
06-24-2010, 12:06 PM
jargomcfargo wrote:




Who was propagating that myth on here? :unsure:

Marrdro wrote:


By the way, other than the game were Whinny got injured and guys were shoved in there, our defense played better without him than they did with him.

meaning, in games where the backups coudl practice with the first team, they played better pass D, which simply isn't true.

Marrdro
06-24-2010, 12:14 PM
i_bleed_purple wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

12purplepride28 wrote:

Marrdro wrote:


By the way, other than the game were Whinny got injured and guys were shoved in there, our defense played better without him than they did with him.

woah woah woah, I can't agree with you there. Ya winfield is primarily a run first cornerback, which obviously isn't ideal, but you can't deny the intensity he brings. Just look at the bengals game from last year, it was the first game antoine was back from his injury, and you could tell he was excited to be back. Just some of the hits he dished out were amazing, and you could tell that it helped the defense as a whole shut down an normally potent bengals offense.

So yah, winfield is a great run defender, an average pass defender, but the veteran leadership and intensity he brings to our defense is one of those indefinable qualities that makes teams keep veterans around.

its partially true.

We gave up 385 yards in the air against the Ravens without Winfield
We also gave up 7.7ypc to Rice

I think our pass defense improved after a bit when Winny was gone, but our Run Defense really suffered. We couldn't stop the outside runs very well, and teams ran more.

We gave up 5.6 ypc on the ground vs. the Steelers without Winny

We gave up 287 yds and 3 TD"s vs. the packers
and 5.5 ypc to grant and Rodgers

Now that I look at it, our only good game without Winny really was the Steelers. We got toasted vs. ravens and packers.

Even Matt Stafford put up 224, 1 TD
and they rusehd for 4.2 ypc, 5.2 if you take away Maurice MOrris' pitiful carries.

Hasslebeck passed for 73% and 231 yards, but no TD`s. They didn`t try running much though.

Thats certainly not what I`d call playing `Better``
But you are looking at, mostly, Whinny's absence as being the blame for the increased run averages. I look at what happens in that Ravens game and see alot of runs that weren't to his side, even if he was in there.

As to the pass yardages, I can go and pull up games were he was in there when we got chewed up. Does that mean Whinny had a bad game or does it mean our DL didn't get pressure.

Kindof an apples and oranges thing on both counts if you ask me.

I'm not trying to prove winny's absence as being a blame for improved run game, just an observation I made.

What I'm pointing out is our pass defense did not improve with winny gone like you claim. In fact, quite the opposite.

From those games, we gave up an average of: 260.4yards in those 5 games, our average that year was 218.4 yards per game, including those 5, meaning if you don't include them, it was significantly better. I don't have the time or effort to go indepth with things like 3rd down %, etc.

But its certainly not better without Winny.
Nor do I expect you to use stats. Kindof silly to try to do it considering the scheme and how it gives up yards whoever is back there.

What I am talking about is coverage by the CB's and the handoffs between the S's. I saw improvement in that area and fewer big plays.

Again, my perception. If I thought I could prove it with stats I would have tried.

Marrdro
06-24-2010, 12:16 PM
i_bleed_purple wrote:

jargomcfargo wrote:




Who was propagating that myth on here? :unsure:

Marrdro wrote:


By the way, other than the game were Whinny got injured and guys were shoved in there, our defense played better without him than they did with him.

meaning, in games where the backups coudl practice with the first team, they played better pass D, which simply isn't true.
Statistically, no. I would agree. But even back when Mac stepped in for Whinny, our defense appeared to flow better. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, we got better this year without him at getting off the field on 3rd downs more often.

Again, no way I can back up my claim with stats. The scheme doesn't support that.

i_bleed_purple
06-24-2010, 12:24 PM
Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

12purplepride28 wrote:

Marrdro wrote:


By the way, other than the game were Whinny got injured and guys were shoved in there, our defense played better without him than they did with him.

woah woah woah, I can't agree with you there. Ya winfield is primarily a run first cornerback, which obviously isn't ideal, but you can't deny the intensity he brings. Just look at the bengals game from last year, it was the first game antoine was back from his injury, and you could tell he was excited to be back. Just some of the hits he dished out were amazing, and you could tell that it helped the defense as a whole shut down an normally potent bengals offense.

So yah, winfield is a great run defender, an average pass defender, but the veteran leadership and intensity he brings to our defense is one of those indefinable qualities that makes teams keep veterans around.

its partially true.

We gave up 385 yards in the air against the Ravens without Winfield
We also gave up 7.7ypc to Rice

I think our pass defense improved after a bit when Winny was gone, but our Run Defense really suffered. We couldn't stop the outside runs very well, and teams ran more.

We gave up 5.6 ypc on the ground vs. the Steelers without Winny

We gave up 287 yds and 3 TD"s vs. the packers
and 5.5 ypc to grant and Rodgers

Now that I look at it, our only good game without Winny really was the Steelers. We got toasted vs. ravens and packers.

Even Matt Stafford put up 224, 1 TD
and they rusehd for 4.2 ypc, 5.2 if you take away Maurice MOrris' pitiful carries.

Hasslebeck passed for 73% and 231 yards, but no TD`s. They didn`t try running much though.

Thats certainly not what I`d call playing `Better``
But you are looking at, mostly, Whinny's absence as being the blame for the increased run averages. I look at what happens in that Ravens game and see alot of runs that weren't to his side, even if he was in there.

As to the pass yardages, I can go and pull up games were he was in there when we got chewed up. Does that mean Whinny had a bad game or does it mean our DL didn't get pressure.

Kindof an apples and oranges thing on both counts if you ask me.

I'm not trying to prove winny's absence as being a blame for improved run game, just an observation I made.

What I'm pointing out is our pass defense did not improve with winny gone like you claim. In fact, quite the opposite.

From those games, we gave up an average of: 260.4yards in those 5 games, our average that year was 218.4 yards per game, including those 5, meaning if you don't include them, it was significantly better. I don't have the time or effort to go indepth with things like 3rd down %, etc.

But its certainly not better without Winny.
Nor do I expect you to use stats. Kindof silly to try to do it considering the scheme and how it gives up yards whoever is back there.

What I am talking about is coverage by the CB's and the handoffs between the S's. I saw improvement in that area and fewer big plays.

Again, my perception. If I thought I could prove it with stats I would have tried.
:huh:

fewer big plays? Not likely:

Ravens game: M.Clayton 32 yd. pass from J.Flacco (S.Hauschka kick) (7-75, 1:33)
D.Mason 12 yd. pass from J.Flacco (S.Hauschka kick) (3-73, 0:49)
Those were the TD's

(5:53) 5-J.Flacco pass deep right to 85-D.Mason pushed ob at BLT 35 for 27 yards (41-K.Paymah).
(:26) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass short left to 86-T.Heap pushed ob at MIN 35 for 22 yards (25-T.Johnson).
(:17) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass deep right to 85-D.Mason to MIN 12 for 23 yards (41-K.Paymah). Penalty on MIN-69-J.Allen, Defensive Offside, declined. (play later)
(4:43) 5-J.Flacco pass deep middle to 86-T.Heap to MIN 22 for 23 yards (20-M.Williams; 25-T.Johnson).
(9:44) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass deep middle to 15-K.Washington to BLT 45 for 28 yards (20-M.Williams). BLT-15-K.Washington was injured during the play. His return is Probable. Penalty on MIN-91-R.Edwards, Defensive Offside, declined.
(9:28) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass deep middle to 87-D.Williams to MIN 38 for 17 yards (22-B.Sapp). Minnesota challenged the pass completion ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #1.)
(5:32) 5-J.Flacco pass short right to 27-R.Rice to MIN 12 for 63 yards (25-T.Johnson).

last drive:
(1:45) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass short right to 27-R.Rice to BLT 46 for 13 yards (23-C.Griffin) [93-K.Williams].
(1:37) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass short middle to 15-K.Washington to MIN 41 for 13 yards (69-J.Allen).


Steelers:
M.Wallace 40 yd. pass from B.Roethlisberger (J.Reed kick) (8-91, 1:15)
(:49) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass deep middle to 17-M.Wallace to MIN 40 for 22 yards (52-C.Greenway).
3rd and 5: (15:00) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 10-S.Holmes to MIN 9 for 45 yards (69-J.Allen, 23-C.Griffin).




thats just two games. I haven't touched the Packers game yet, there were big plays there, and I don't recall the seahawks and Lionsa s well, and am not going to look it all up.

Marrdro
06-24-2010, 12:32 PM
i_bleed_purple wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

12purplepride28 wrote:

Marrdro wrote:


By the way, other than the game were Whinny got injured and guys were shoved in there, our defense played better without him than they did with him.

woah woah woah, I can't agree with you there. Ya winfield is primarily a run first cornerback, which obviously isn't ideal, but you can't deny the intensity he brings. Just look at the bengals game from last year, it was the first game antoine was back from his injury, and you could tell he was excited to be back. Just some of the hits he dished out were amazing, and you could tell that it helped the defense as a whole shut down an normally potent bengals offense.

So yah, winfield is a great run defender, an average pass defender, but the veteran leadership and intensity he brings to our defense is one of those indefinable qualities that makes teams keep veterans around.

its partially true.

We gave up 385 yards in the air against the Ravens without Winfield
We also gave up 7.7ypc to Rice

I think our pass defense improved after a bit when Winny was gone, but our Run Defense really suffered. We couldn't stop the outside runs very well, and teams ran more.

We gave up 5.6 ypc on the ground vs. the Steelers without Winny

We gave up 287 yds and 3 TD"s vs. the packers
and 5.5 ypc to grant and Rodgers

Now that I look at it, our only good game without Winny really was the Steelers. We got toasted vs. ravens and packers.

Even Matt Stafford put up 224, 1 TD
and they rusehd for 4.2 ypc, 5.2 if you take away Maurice MOrris' pitiful carries.

Hasslebeck passed for 73% and 231 yards, but no TD`s. They didn`t try running much though.

Thats certainly not what I`d call playing `Better``
But you are looking at, mostly, Whinny's absence as being the blame for the increased run averages. I look at what happens in that Ravens game and see alot of runs that weren't to his side, even if he was in there.

As to the pass yardages, I can go and pull up games were he was in there when we got chewed up. Does that mean Whinny had a bad game or does it mean our DL didn't get pressure.

Kindof an apples and oranges thing on both counts if you ask me.

I'm not trying to prove winny's absence as being a blame for improved run game, just an observation I made.

What I'm pointing out is our pass defense did not improve with winny gone like you claim. In fact, quite the opposite.

From those games, we gave up an average of: 260.4yards in those 5 games, our average that year was 218.4 yards per game, including those 5, meaning if you don't include them, it was significantly better. I don't have the time or effort to go indepth with things like 3rd down %, etc.

But its certainly not better without Winny.
Nor do I expect you to use stats. Kindof silly to try to do it considering the scheme and how it gives up yards whoever is back there.

What I am talking about is coverage by the CB's and the handoffs between the S's. I saw improvement in that area and fewer big plays.

Again, my perception. If I thought I could prove it with stats I would have tried.
:huh:

fewer big plays? Not likely:

Ravens game: M.Clayton 32 yd. pass from J.Flacco (S.Hauschka kick) (7-75, 1:33)
D.Mason 12 yd. pass from J.Flacco (S.Hauschka kick) (3-73, 0:49)
Those were the TD's

(5:53) 5-J.Flacco pass deep right to 85-D.Mason pushed ob at BLT 35 for 27 yards (41-K.Paymah).
(:26) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass short left to 86-T.Heap pushed ob at MIN 35 for 22 yards (25-T.Johnson).
(:17) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass deep right to 85-D.Mason to MIN 12 for 23 yards (41-K.Paymah). Penalty on MIN-69-J.Allen, Defensive Offside, declined. (play later)
(4:43) 5-J.Flacco pass deep middle to 86-T.Heap to MIN 22 for 23 yards (20-M.Williams; 25-T.Johnson).
(9:44) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass deep middle to 15-K.Washington to BLT 45 for 28 yards (20-M.Williams). BLT-15-K.Washington was injured during the play. His return is Probable. Penalty on MIN-91-R.Edwards, Defensive Offside, declined.
(9:28) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass deep middle to 87-D.Williams to MIN 38 for 17 yards (22-B.Sapp). Minnesota challenged the pass completion ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #1.)
(5:32) 5-J.Flacco pass short right to 27-R.Rice to MIN 12 for 63 yards (25-T.Johnson).

last drive:
(1:45) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass short right to 27-R.Rice to BLT 46 for 13 yards (23-C.Griffin) [93-K.Williams].
(1:37) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass short middle to 15-K.Washington to MIN 41 for 13 yards (69-J.Allen).


Steelers:
M.Wallace 40 yd. pass from B.Roethlisberger (J.Reed kick) (8-91, 1:15)
(:49) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass deep middle to 17-M.Wallace to MIN 40 for 22 yards (52-C.Greenway).
3rd and 5: (15:00) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 10-S.Holmes to MIN 9 for 45 yards (69-J.Allen, 23-C.Griffin).




thats just two games. I haven't touched the Packers game yet, there were big plays there, and I don't recall the seahawks and Lionsa s well, and am not going to look it all up.
And I can go and pull big plays from when Whinny was in there.

Again, its how the defense flowed that I am talking about. Hard to quantify or prove with stats. If I were to try to do it, I would go to things (like I mentioned earlier) like 3 and outs, TOP, FG's instead of TDs ect.

ejmat
06-24-2010, 12:33 PM
Marrdro wrote:

12purplepride28 wrote:

Marrdro wrote:


By the way, other than the game were Whinny got injured and guys were shoved in there, our defense played better without him than they did with him.

woah woah woah, I can't agree with you there. Ya winfield is primarily a run first cornerback, which obviously isn't ideal, but you can't deny the intensity he brings. Just look at the bengals game from last year, it was the first game antoine was back from his injury, and you could tell he was excited to be back. Just some of the hits he dished out were amazing, and you could tell that it helped the defense as a whole shut down an normally potent bengals offense.

So yah, winfield is a great run defender, an average pass defender, but the veteran leadership and intensity he brings to our defense is one of those indefinable qualities that makes teams keep veterans around.
When I say better, I actually mean I thought they did better (in the pass protection area).

That doesn't mean I wouldn't want to see the whole cover 2 scrapped for a traditional "Press/Man" coverage system nor does it take away from the "intensity" that Whinny brings.

Again, most aren't gonna like it, but I believe by the end of the year we will see someone other than Whinny starting this year, even if he stays healthy.

My guess, the staff agree's with me mostly based on the clauses we saw in his contract.

So what I see you saying here is this is another one of those "exceptions" where stats don't tell the entire story. :P

Marrdro
06-24-2010, 12:38 PM
ejmat wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

12purplepride28 wrote:

Marrdro wrote:


By the way, other than the game were Whinny got injured and guys were shoved in there, our defense played better without him than they did with him.

woah woah woah, I can't agree with you there. Ya winfield is primarily a run first cornerback, which obviously isn't ideal, but you can't deny the intensity he brings. Just look at the bengals game from last year, it was the first game antoine was back from his injury, and you could tell he was excited to be back. Just some of the hits he dished out were amazing, and you could tell that it helped the defense as a whole shut down an normally potent bengals offense.

So yah, winfield is a great run defender, an average pass defender, but the veteran leadership and intensity he brings to our defense is one of those indefinable qualities that makes teams keep veterans around.
When I say better, I actually mean I thought they did better (in the pass protection area).

That doesn't mean I wouldn't want to see the whole cover 2 scrapped for a traditional "Press/Man" coverage system nor does it take away from the "intensity" that Whinny brings.

Again, most aren't gonna like it, but I believe by the end of the year we will see someone other than Whinny starting this year, even if he stays healthy.

My guess, the staff agree's with me mostly based on the clauses we saw in his contract.

So what I see you saying here is this is another one of those "exceptions" where stats don't tell the entire story. :P
Yes my friend, as much as I hate to say it. Its also why I try to stay out of conversations about our secondary and Whinny.

Its a no win situation because I can't "Prove" what I am seeing.

Case in point, my good friend Jargo said that Whinny getting caught cheating was rare, when it fact I see it alot. Without actuall tape, its hard to make that case even though it happens more than most think.

Wildman made a recommendation last year, .....He said I should scan and post my game notes instead of retyping the same stuff in the "Rant threads". I might opt to do that this year.

i_bleed_purple
06-24-2010, 12:41 PM
Marrdro wrote:

my game notes

You sir, are watching football for all the wrong reasons.

Marrdro
06-24-2010, 12:47 PM
i_bleed_purple wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

my game notes
You sir, are watching football for all the wrong reasons.
I actually use them at the end of the year when I do the roster analysis crap.

My response to Wildman was that if I did post them, no one could read them anyways as I have my own type of short hand. Mix that in with crappy hand writing and it probably wouldn't make much sense.

Still, I am thinking about developing a form and then keeping those forms forever. Typically Wildwoman eventually cleans and I loose all of them to here cleaning efforts.

If I put those forms in a binder, she wouldn't discard them.

Caine
06-24-2010, 01:08 PM
IF I'm reading this right, Marrdro is claiming that the Defense without Winfield FELT more cohesive...is that accurate?

See, the trouble here is that "felt" is subjective. Marrdro FELT more comfortable in the performance of the Defense WITHOUT Winfield on the field...even though the statistics don't support his FEELINGS, they also don't completely invalidate them.

The fact is, I didn't notice a huge drop off in our performance defensively despite the loss of Winfield and Griffin. We didn't FEEL weaker...even though we may have statistically given up a bit more. My confidence level remained about teh same, despite the loss of our two starters.

And isn't that sort of an indictment of the level of our secondary? I have stated numerous times that I think our secondary sucks...the only thing that saves us is the play of the front 4...and when they falter, we don't do so well.

Bottom line, we need more production from our secondary. And honestly, as much as I personally like Winfield, I don't care WHO steps up and makes things happen back there as long as someone does.

Caine

Marrdro
06-24-2010, 01:13 PM
Caine wrote:

IF I'm reading this right, Marrdro is claiming that the Defense without Winfield FELT more cohesive...is that accurate?

See, the trouble here is that "felt" is subjective. Marrdro FELT more comfortable in the performance of the Defense WITHOUT Winfield on the field...even though the statistics don't support his FEELINGS, they also don't completely invalidate them.

The fact is, I didn't notice a huge drop off in our performance defensively despite the loss of Winfield and Griffin. We didn't FEEL weaker...even though we may have statistically given up a bit more. My confidence level remained about teh same, despite the loss of our two starters.

And isn't that sort of an indictment of the level of our secondary? I have stated numerous times that I think our secondary sucks...the only thing that saves us is the play of the front 4...and when they falter, we don't do so well.

Bottom line, we need more production from our secondary. And honestly, as much as I personally like Winfield, I don't care WHO steps up and makes things happen back there as long as someone does.

Caine
I stand corrected, this is classic Caine. That funny shit about the lotion is a new Caine showing his funny side.

I agree with everything you said my friend, especially the point on the front 4.


the only thing that saves us is the play of the front 4...and when they falter, we don't do so well.

Top shelf, top shelf indeed. Excellent post.

MaxVike
06-24-2010, 03:53 PM
i_bleed_purple wrote:


You know what, their offensive line is not that good. They’re way overrated. It’s unbelievable. If they didn’t have Brett Favre, the number of times he gets them out of trouble is amazing. Left tackle Bryant McKinnie, it’s a joke that he made the Pro Bowl. A joke. …

“They have excellent speed at receiver. They have good balance at tight end—Visanthe Shiancoe can make big plays down the field, and Jimmy Kleinsasser isn’t what he used to be but still gives you a good day’s work. Jeff Dugan is solid. … Adrian Peterson is a little bit feast or famine. I think it will hurt them that they lost Chester Taylor because that was an excellent 1-2 punch. …

“Defensively, they’re solid. They do a good job stopping the run, and they get after the quarterback. Ray Edwards is a good player; Jared Allen is an excellent pass rusher. But Kevin Williams, he’s the best guy they have up front. At linebacker, I don’t know what’s going to happen with E.J. Henderson and his injury. Chad Greenway is a playmaker. …

“In the secondary, Antoine Winfield is a tough, physical tackler and by far their best guy back there. They don’t have a weak defense, but the lowest part of their defense is their secondary. That’s not to say they’re bad. I just don’t think they’re at the same level as the front.”

That seems 100% accurate to me

This is nothing more than a rant from a sour grapes player that the Vikes beat last year...my guess a defensive lineman. According to nfl.com, the Vikes had the 5th ranked offense in terms of yards, the 17th ranked offensive line, were #2 in touchdowns, and #2 in PPG. The Vikes had a great year and this cowardly, "unnamed player" can kiss my ass.

i_bleed_purple
06-24-2010, 04:48 PM
MaxVike wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


You know what, their offensive line is not that good. They’re way overrated. It’s unbelievable. If they didn’t have Brett Favre, the number of times he gets them out of trouble is amazing. Left tackle Bryant McKinnie, it’s a joke that he made the Pro Bowl. A joke. …

“They have excellent speed at receiver. They have good balance at tight end—Visanthe Shiancoe can make big plays down the field, and Jimmy Kleinsasser isn’t what he used to be but still gives you a good day’s work. Jeff Dugan is solid. … Adrian Peterson is a little bit feast or famine. I think it will hurt them that they lost Chester Taylor because that was an excellent 1-2 punch. …

“Defensively, they’re solid. They do a good job stopping the run, and they get after the quarterback. Ray Edwards is a good player; Jared Allen is an excellent pass rusher. But Kevin Williams, he’s the best guy they have up front. At linebacker, I don’t know what’s going to happen with E.J. Henderson and his injury. Chad Greenway is a playmaker. …

“In the secondary, Antoine Winfield is a tough, physical tackler and by far their best guy back there. They don’t have a weak defense, but the lowest part of their defense is their secondary. That’s not to say they’re bad. I just don’t think they’re at the same level as the front.”

That seems 100% accurate to me

This is nothing more than a rant from a sour grapes player that the Vikes beat last year...my guess a defensive lineman. According to nfl.com, the Vikes had the 5th ranked offense in terms of yards, the 17th ranked offensive line, were #2 in touchdowns, and #2 in PPG. The Vikes had a great year and this cowardly, "unnamed player" can kiss my ass.
enlighten me then. What did he say you didn't agree with? He didn't say the Vikings were a bad team, or overrated. He pointed out the flaws on the team, which are fairly evident.

MaxVike
06-24-2010, 05:32 PM
i_bleed_purple wrote:

MaxVike wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


You know what, their offensive line is not that good. They’re way overrated. It’s unbelievable. If they didn’t have Brett Favre, the number of times he gets them out of trouble is amazing. Left tackle Bryant McKinnie, it’s a joke that he made the Pro Bowl. A joke. …

“They have excellent speed at receiver. They have good balance at tight end—Visanthe Shiancoe can make big plays down the field, and Jimmy Kleinsasser isn’t what he used to be but still gives you a good day’s work. Jeff Dugan is solid. … Adrian Peterson is a little bit feast or famine. I think it will hurt them that they lost Chester Taylor because that was an excellent 1-2 punch. …

“Defensively, they’re solid. They do a good job stopping the run, and they get after the quarterback. Ray Edwards is a good player; Jared Allen is an excellent pass rusher. But Kevin Williams, he’s the best guy they have up front. At linebacker, I don’t know what’s going to happen with E.J. Henderson and his injury. Chad Greenway is a playmaker. …

“In the secondary, Antoine Winfield is a tough, physical tackler and by far their best guy back there. They don’t have a weak defense, but the lowest part of their defense is their secondary. That’s not to say they’re bad. I just don’t think they’re at the same level as the front.”

That seems 100% accurate to me

This is nothing more than a rant from a sour grapes player that the Vikes beat last year...my guess a defensive lineman. According to nfl.com, the Vikes had the 5th ranked offense in terms of yards, the 17th ranked offensive line, were #2 in touchdowns, and #2 in PPG. The Vikes had a great year and this cowardly, "unnamed player" can kiss my ass.
enlighten me then. What did he say you didn't agree with? He didn't say the Vikings were a bad team, or overrated. He pointed out the flaws on the team, which are fairly evident.

To start, I should have deleted your comment, because it really had nothing to do with my point. Your post was the most brief that contained the Player's quote...so, I was not challenging you.

With that said, his opening salvo states that the offensive line is "way overrated." Who is "overrating" the offensive line that is a part of the 5th ranked offense, and #2 scoring offense? I agree that they are not the best, just thought his point screams of sour grapes.

i_bleed_purple
06-24-2010, 11:55 PM
MaxVike wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

MaxVike wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


You know what, their offensive line is not that good. They’re way overrated. It’s unbelievable. If they didn’t have Brett Favre, the number of times he gets them out of trouble is amazing. Left tackle Bryant McKinnie, it’s a joke that he made the Pro Bowl. A joke. …

“They have excellent speed at receiver. They have good balance at tight end—Visanthe Shiancoe can make big plays down the field, and Jimmy Kleinsasser isn’t what he used to be but still gives you a good day’s work. Jeff Dugan is solid. … Adrian Peterson is a little bit feast or famine. I think it will hurt them that they lost Chester Taylor because that was an excellent 1-2 punch. …

“Defensively, they’re solid. They do a good job stopping the run, and they get after the quarterback. Ray Edwards is a good player; Jared Allen is an excellent pass rusher. But Kevin Williams, he’s the best guy they have up front. At linebacker, I don’t know what’s going to happen with E.J. Henderson and his injury. Chad Greenway is a playmaker. …

“In the secondary, Antoine Winfield is a tough, physical tackler and by far their best guy back there. They don’t have a weak defense, but the lowest part of their defense is their secondary. That’s not to say they’re bad. I just don’t think they’re at the same level as the front.”

That seems 100% accurate to me

This is nothing more than a rant from a sour grapes player that the Vikes beat last year...my guess a defensive lineman. According to nfl.com, the Vikes had the 5th ranked offense in terms of yards, the 17th ranked offensive line, were #2 in touchdowns, and #2 in PPG. The Vikes had a great year and this cowardly, "unnamed player" can kiss my ass.
enlighten me then. What did he say you didn't agree with? He didn't say the Vikings were a bad team, or overrated. He pointed out the flaws on the team, which are fairly evident.

To start, I should have deleted your comment, because it really had nothing to do with my point. Your post was the most brief that contained the Player's quote...so, I was not challenging you.

With that said, his opening salvo states that the offensive line is "way overrated." Who is "overrating" the offensive line that is a part of the 5th ranked offense, and #2 scoring offense? I agree that they are not the best, just thought his point screams of sour grapes.

McKinnie: Incredibly overrated.
Hutch was hurt
Sullivan played mediocre at best
Herrerra played poorly this year (aparantly he was hurt all eyar too)
Load was a rookie

We were given credit for line play, when really, our line play was quite bad. Only reason we did great is because we have superstars at skill positions.

ndnorseman
06-25-2010, 04:27 AM
Caine wrote:


Bottom line, we need more production from our secondary. And honestly, as much as I personally like Winfield, I don't care WHO steps up and makes things happen back there as long as someone does.

Caine

That line right there could, for me anyway, be quoted like so:

Bottom line, we need more production from our secondary. And honestly, as much as I personally like Winfield the players on our team, I don't care WHO steps up and makes things happen back there as long as someone does.

That especially goes for the QB position...

Marrdro
06-25-2010, 07:30 AM
ndnorseman wrote:

Caine wrote:


Bottom line, we need more production from our secondary. And honestly, as much as I personally like Winfield, I don't care WHO steps up and makes things happen back there as long as someone does.

Caine

That line right there could, for me anyway, be quoted like so:

Bottom line, we need more production from our secondary. And honestly, as much as I personally like Winfield the players on our team, I don't care WHO steps up and makes things happen back there as long as someone does.

That especially goes for the QB position...
I think you need to post more often.

Good stuff my friend. Good stuff indeed. Consider yourself bumped a few columns on the ole spreadsheet.

tastywaves
06-25-2010, 11:09 AM
ndnorseman wrote:

Caine wrote:


Bottom line, we need more production from our secondary. And honestly, as much as I personally like Winfield, I don't care WHO steps up and makes things happen back there as long as someone does.

Caine

That line right there could, for me anyway, be quoted like so:

Bottom line, we need more production from our secondary. And honestly, as much as I personally like Winfield the players on our team, I don't care WHO steps up and makes things happen back there as long as someone does.

That especially goes for the QB position...

Very true, and most posters would no doubt agree with you. There is always love for certain players, but I doubt many people would put that above overall team play.

The debates occur as to who gives us the best chance to perform on the field and then grading how well a player really did perform. Many different viewpoints on what determines good play by a player, especially in football where there are a large number of players with many responsibilities with causal effects and limited camera views for the casual spectator to watch from.

Bottom line is we have no say in the matter anyways, so the best we can do is go by the coaches decisions on who to play and hope they know what they are doing. If people want verification of their viewpoints, IMO, that is as good as they'll get.

slavinator
06-25-2010, 11:31 AM
Team Pass Protection Rankings - 12-1 (http://www.profootballfocus.com/articles.php?tab=articles&arc=&id=153)



No. 8 -- Minnesota Vikings For all the Vikings' deficiencies as a group of run blockers (they have all the coherence of a bunch of 6-year-olds chasing the ball in a soccer game), as pass protectors they should have been at the head of this list. They have a tight end in Jimmy Kleinsasser who blocks about as well as most tackles; a QB who literally has seen more on a football field than any other; a beast named Adrian Peterson in the backfield who is just coming into his own in the field of punishing blitzers; and a group of linemen who have the potential to be as good as it gets. But they still only make No. 8. Why? It boils down to the fact that tackles Bryant McKinnie and Phil Loadholt have all the talent in the world but lack the consistency to be great very good. Though it's unfair to take Loadholt to task too much about this, McKinnie is another matter. Games like he had against the Panthers, or the Lions in Week 2, are unacceptable for a player of his stature and he really needs to sort out his act in order for this group to improve.

slavinator
06-25-2010, 11:32 AM
slavinator wrote:

Team Pass Protection Rankings - 12-1 (http://www.profootballfocus.com/articles.php?tab=articles&arc=&id=153)



No. 8 -- Minnesota Vikings For all the Vikings' deficiencies as a group of run blockers (they have all the coherence of a bunch of 6-year-olds chasing the ball in a soccer game), as pass protectors they should have been at the head of this list. They have a tight end in Jimmy Kleinsasser who blocks about as well as most tackles; a QB who literally has seen more on a football field than any other; a beast named Adrian Peterson in the backfield who is just coming into his own in the field of punishing blitzers; and a group of linemen who have the potential to be as good as it gets. But they still only make No. 8. Why? It boils down to the fact that tackles Bryant McKinnie and Phil Loadholt have all the talent in the world but lack the consistency to be great very good. Though it's unfair to take Loadholt to task too much about this, McKinnie is another matter. Games like he had against the Panthers, or the Lions in Week 2, are unacceptable for a player of his stature and he really needs to sort out his act in order for this group to improve.

Thats pretty funny!

ndnorseman
06-28-2010, 05:38 AM
Interesting...

We have what is (according to those rankings, anyway) the 8th ranked pass protection in the League. Could be better, yeah, but it could be a lot worse. At least our guys aren't ranked as low as these schmucks:

No. 29 -- Buffalo Bills
No. 28 -- Washington Redskins
No. 26 -- Dallas Cowboys
No. 25 -- Chicago Bears
No. 24 -- Green Bay Packers
No. 20 -- Detroit Lions
No. 17 -- Arizona Cardinals
No. 14 -- New York Giants
No. 11 -- Philadelphia Eagles

12 teams that we play this year have worse pass-blocking than we did (according to those rankings, anyway). Think The Four Norsemen aren't salivating?

Here's some more statistical recollection, supposition, and prognostication:

(BTW, I'm just going with a sack/passing TD ratio, to stay with the pass protection theme of this post...not counting hurries, since I just don't have that kind of time or patience to devote. LOL I'll also note when I'm using all the team's QBs' stats combined if I'm not sure who the official QB will be this year.)

BILLS
Not sure who's under center for 2010, but going by the stats from last year, combined with the coaching overhaul, this seems like an easy day for our front 4. The sacks/passing TD ratio is 44/15, with all 3 QBs, not including hurries.

REDSKINS
Another tough one to call, due to not only a coaching overhaul, but they're also adding McNabb into the mix. In any case, the sack/TD numbers for Campbell were 43/20. I think the O-line is pretty much the same, but they need to adjust to new coaches, a new RB, AND a new QB. Sucks to be them.

COWBOYS
Romo's 34/26 sack to TD ratio is a little better, but our guys seem to have his number over the last couple games.

BEARS
Cutler's S/TD (haha) is 35/27. The homer part of me wants to say SWEEP! but the realist reminds me that they split games with us last year, and Cutler will have had another whole offseason to get in tune with his line, and vice versa. Add Chester Taylor into the mix. I see another split, at least.

PACKERS
Aaron Rodgers probably isn't putting his O-line on his Christmas shopping list with a 50/30 ratio. Still, pulling off yet another sweep will be tough.

LIONS
Stafford had a much easier rookie season than David Carr, with a ratio of only 24 sacks, but 13 TDs is pathetic. I could be mistaken, but I think they had more passing TDs in '08...and that's saying something, if you recall their final win/loss tally.

CARDINALS
The first QB to have more TDs than sacks with 24/26...but unfortunately for the Cardinals, the guy who did it is retired. I think Arizona and Leinart will show by example just how big of a dropoff we'll experience when we go from a Hall Of Fame QB to a Hall Of Lame QB. I hope not, but as I've said before...this is T-Jack's last year to impress me (even if it's just in mop-up duty) before I completely give up on him.

GIANTS
30/27 for Baby Bro Eli...not bad, but he has to come back to the Thunderdome where he's been terrorized the last few years.

EAGLES
35/22 for McNabb, but as with Arizona, those numbers are a moot point...sort of. Kolb had a 3/4 sack/TD ratio, but it's gonna take at least a couple months for him to start gelling well with his O-line. It's a good thing we play them early on in the season...oh, wait...

===========================================================

Anyway...that's enough from me tonight. Hope it was worth your time reading it, and it gave some food for thought.

gagarr
06-28-2010, 08:52 AM
i_bleed_purple wrote:

MaxVike wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

MaxVike wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:


You know what, their offensive line is not that good. They’re way overrated. It’s unbelievable. If they didn’t have Brett Favre, the number of times he gets them out of trouble is amazing. Left tackle Bryant McKinnie, it’s a joke that he made the Pro Bowl. A joke. …

“They have excellent speed at receiver. They have good balance at tight end—Visanthe Shiancoe can make big plays down the field, and Jimmy Kleinsasser isn’t what he used to be but still gives you a good day’s work. Jeff Dugan is solid. … Adrian Peterson is a little bit feast or famine. I think it will hurt them that they lost Chester Taylor because that was an excellent 1-2 punch. …

“Defensively, they’re solid. They do a good job stopping the run, and they get after the quarterback. Ray Edwards is a good player; Jared Allen is an excellent pass rusher. But Kevin Williams, he’s the best guy they have up front. At linebacker, I don’t know what’s going to happen with E.J. Henderson and his injury. Chad Greenway is a playmaker. …

“In the secondary, Antoine Winfield is a tough, physical tackler and by far their best guy back there. They don’t have a weak defense, but the lowest part of their defense is their secondary. That’s not to say they’re bad. I just don’t think they’re at the same level as the front.”

That seems 100% accurate to me

This is nothing more than a rant from a sour grapes player that the Vikes beat last year...my guess a defensive lineman. According to nfl.com, the Vikes had the 5th ranked offense in terms of yards, the 17th ranked offensive line, were #2 in touchdowns, and #2 in PPG. The Vikes had a great year and this cowardly, "unnamed player" can kiss my ass.
enlighten me then. What did he say you didn't agree with? He didn't say the Vikings were a bad team, or overrated. He pointed out the flaws on the team, which are fairly evident.

To start, I should have deleted your comment, because it really had nothing to do with my point. Your post was the most brief that contained the Player's quote...so, I was not challenging you.

With that said, his opening salvo states that the offensive line is "way overrated." Who is "overrating" the offensive line that is a part of the 5th ranked offense, and #2 scoring offense? I agree that they are not the best, just thought his point screams of sour grapes.

McKinnie: Incredibly overrated.
Hutch was hurt
Sullivan played mediocre at best
Herrerra played poorly this year (aparantly he was hurt all eyar too)
Load was a rookie

We were given credit for line play, when really, our line play was quite bad. Only reason we did great is because we have superstars at skill positions.

I don't know about the word incredibly. But he just can't handle speed DE's like Peppers, who unfortunately he'll be seeing twice this year.

It's obvious that Sullivan and Load should make a jump in effectiveness having a year under their belt.

I think there is reason to be optomistic about the Vikes OL.