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Marrdro
02-22-2010, 02:56 PM
The curious case of Bernard Berrian (http://grants-tomb.blogspot.com/2010/02/curious-case-of-bernard-berrian.html)
LOL, no one wants to hear why I think his yards per AVG dropped, now do they....... :laugh:

ejmat
02-22-2010, 03:04 PM
Marrdro wrote:

The curious case of Bernard Berrian (http://grants-tomb.blogspot.com/2010/02/curious-case-of-bernard-berrian.html)
LOL, no one wants to hear why I think his yards per AVG dropped, now do they....... :laugh:

I think his regression was quite obvious to a lot of people. His speed was different as well as his difficulty in catchng the football. They don't mention that in this article. He had a few drops.

Berrian has proven he could be productive. This wasn't a good year for him but it wasn't bad either. Just not what we expected of him.

Hopefully he comes back 100% and doesn't re-injure his hammy again. Seems to be his forte as it happened in 2008 too.

Marrdro
02-22-2010, 03:16 PM
ejmat wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

The curious case of Bernard Berrian (http://grants-tomb.blogspot.com/2010/02/curious-case-of-bernard-berrian.html)
LOL, no one wants to hear why I think his yards per AVG dropped, now do they....... :laugh:

I think his regression was quite obvious to a lot of people. His speed was different as well as his difficulty in catchng the football. They don't mention that in this article. He had a few drops.

Berrian has proven he could be productive. This wasn't a good year for him but it wasn't bad either. Just not what we expected of him.

Hopefully he comes back 100% and doesn't re-injure his hammy again. Seems to be his forte as it happened in 2008 too.
Hmmmm, tied for 63rd with 3 dropped passes. That doesn't seem like to many to me.

Pro Football Focus Stats (Dropped Passes) (http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=WR&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1)

C Mac D
02-22-2010, 03:33 PM
He also had one pass for 99 yards last season... that will distort the YPC a bit.

Marrdro
02-22-2010, 03:47 PM
C Mac D wrote:

He also had one pass for 99 yards last season... that will distort the YPC a bit.

29 of his passes caught this year were from 1-10 yds. Last year it was about split between 1-10 and 11-21.

ESPN Stats Berrian (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=5603)

i_bleed_purple
02-22-2010, 03:51 PM
Marrdro wrote:

ejmat wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

The curious case of Bernard Berrian (http://grants-tomb.blogspot.com/2010/02/curious-case-of-bernard-berrian.html)
LOL, no one wants to hear why I think his yards per AVG dropped, now do they....... :laugh:

I think his regression was quite obvious to a lot of people. His speed was different as well as his difficulty in catchng the football. They don't mention that in this article. He had a few drops.

Berrian has proven he could be productive. This wasn't a good year for him but it wasn't bad either. Just not what we expected of him.

Hopefully he comes back 100% and doesn't re-injure his hammy again. Seems to be his forte as it happened in 2008 too.
Hmmmm, tied for 63rd with 3 dropped passes. That doesn't seem like to many to me.

Pro Football Focus Stats (Dropped Passes) (http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=WR&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1)

then that stat is not right. I know he had at least three drops in one game, can't remember which one, but it was a bad game for him. he tipped up Favre's interception, which would be a drop. Its gotta be at least 4.


However, there is no curious case.

Berrian
a) was injured all preseason, so he never got in a groove with Favre like the other guys did. When he came back, they were out of sync, and he wasn't used to catching Favre's passes. Later on, when they were more comfortable with each other, they did fairly well. He was making nice catches and good gains.

b) he's being used differently. Last year he went deep, or took a short pass the distance. This season he was used as a posession guy, which he is not. I saw him in there on fade routes in the endzone, hooks, outs, etc. Things he doesn't excel at.

Its not like he's a bad receiver, he had an off year. It happens. I'm not worried at all.

gregair13
02-22-2010, 06:26 PM
He sucks. Cut him.

VikingMike
02-22-2010, 08:13 PM
Interesting read, thanks. I don't think Berrian is so bad, just never thought he was even close to a #1 receiver, which is what I believe they thought he would be (paying that much for him).

That hammy injury hurt him badly...those things have a way of lasting much longer than you might think. If I recall, he was one of the most vocal in trying to get Favre here. Without the injury to slow him down, I'm sure we would have seen more "go routes" to him this past season.

happy camper
02-22-2010, 08:20 PM
Marrdro wrote:

ejmat wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

The curious case of Bernard Berrian (http://grants-tomb.blogspot.com/2010/02/curious-case-of-bernard-berrian.html)
LOL, no one wants to hear why I think his yards per AVG dropped, now do they....... :laugh:

I think his regression was quite obvious to a lot of people. His speed was different as well as his difficulty in catchng the football. They don't mention that in this article. He had a few drops.

Berrian has proven he could be productive. This wasn't a good year for him but it wasn't bad either. Just not what we expected of him.

Hopefully he comes back 100% and doesn't re-injure his hammy again. Seems to be his forte as it happened in 2008 too.
Hmmmm, tied for 63rd with 3 dropped passes. That doesn't seem like to many to me.

Pro Football Focus Stats (Dropped Passes) (http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=WR&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1)

I know he had more than 3 drops. I don't care what that site says. I'm not a Berrian hater or anything.

vikinggreg
02-22-2010, 11:32 PM
Reasons for Berrian's decreasing production


He needs Bobby Wade and Gus Frerotte with him to stand out

Will Smith hasn't tought him any new moves in 2009

Too much starch in his pants, chafing made every yard hurt

Thought he was Randy Moss and took some plays off

Partying with Bryant McKinnie makes you slow off the ball

Rattled by continuously hearing Brett Favre/Greg Lewis TD as called by Paul Allen being replayed everywhere he looks. Thought Frerotte/Berrian 99 yard TD was better.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbmHO75i6gc


Primetime games played after eating big meals

Sleepless nights thinking up twitter practical joke to top Jackson injury

Childress's beard

Unhappy with current Madden rating

midgensa
02-22-2010, 11:36 PM
Everyone who watched this season knows that Berrian's hands were not that good, but of course that was a knock on him in Chicago as well, so not that big of a deal.

Three technical drops and probably a handful of "should of caughts."

He was also noticeably dinged up for much of the season. It seemed that he started to really get on the same page as Favre late in the year and I would love to seem them get one more year to work together.

ejmat
02-23-2010, 07:08 AM
Marrdro wrote:

ejmat wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

The curious case of Bernard Berrian (http://grants-tomb.blogspot.com/2010/02/curious-case-of-bernard-berrian.html)
LOL, no one wants to hear why I think his yards per AVG dropped, now do they....... :laugh:

I think his regression was quite obvious to a lot of people. His speed was different as well as his difficulty in catchng the football. They don't mention that in this article. He had a few drops.

Berrian has proven he could be productive. This wasn't a good year for him but it wasn't bad either. Just not what we expected of him.

Hopefully he comes back 100% and doesn't re-injure his hammy again. Seems to be his forte as it happened in 2008 too.
Hmmmm, tied for 63rd with 3 dropped passes. That doesn't seem like to many to me.

Pro Football Focus Stats (Dropped Passes) (http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=WR&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1)

I question that statistic my friend. Maybe that is what this site credited him for but memory serves me a little differently. Hell, I think he dropped 3 in one game for goodness sake.

ejmat
02-23-2010, 07:11 AM
happy camper wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

ejmat wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

The curious case of Bernard Berrian (http://grants-tomb.blogspot.com/2010/02/curious-case-of-bernard-berrian.html)
LOL, no one wants to hear why I think his yards per AVG dropped, now do they....... :laugh:

I think his regression was quite obvious to a lot of people. His speed was different as well as his difficulty in catchng the football. They don't mention that in this article. He had a few drops.

Berrian has proven he could be productive. This wasn't a good year for him but it wasn't bad either. Just not what we expected of him.

Hopefully he comes back 100% and doesn't re-injure his hammy again. Seems to be his forte as it happened in 2008 too.
Hmmmm, tied for 63rd with 3 dropped passes. That doesn't seem like to many to me.

Pro Football Focus Stats (Dropped Passes) (http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=WR&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1)

I know he had more than 3 drops. I don't care what that site says. I'm not a Berrian hater or anything.

Good. I thought I was the only one that noticed it.

I like Berrian. He's a nice threat as a WR but 3 drops in 2009? I have to question that.

ejmat
02-23-2010, 07:13 AM
C Mac D wrote:

He also had one pass for 99 yards last season... that will distort the YPC a bit.

Yes Sir it would!

Marrdro
02-23-2010, 07:42 AM
i_bleed_purple wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

ejmat wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

The curious case of Bernard Berrian (http://grants-tomb.blogspot.com/2010/02/curious-case-of-bernard-berrian.html)
LOL, no one wants to hear why I think his yards per AVG dropped, now do they....... :laugh:

I think his regression was quite obvious to a lot of people. His speed was different as well as his difficulty in catchng the football. They don't mention that in this article. He had a few drops.

Berrian has proven he could be productive. This wasn't a good year for him but it wasn't bad either. Just not what we expected of him.

Hopefully he comes back 100% and doesn't re-injure his hammy again. Seems to be his forte as it happened in 2008 too.
Hmmmm, tied for 63rd with 3 dropped passes. That doesn't seem like to many to me.

Pro Football Focus Stats (Dropped Passes) (http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=WR&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1)

then that stat is not right. I know he had at least three drops in one game, can't remember which one, but it was a bad game for him. he tipped up Favre's interception, which would be a drop. Its gotta be at least 4.


However, there is no curious case.

Berrian
a) was injured all preseason, so he never got in a groove with Favre like the other guys did. When he came back, they were out of sync, and he wasn't used to catching Favre's passes. Later on, when they were more comfortable with each other, they did fairly well. He was making nice catches and good gains.

b) he's being used differently. Last year he went deep, or took a short pass the distance. This season he was used as a posession guy, which he is not. I saw him in there on fade routes in the endzone, hooks, outs, etc. Things he doesn't excel at.

Its not like he's a bad receiver, he had an off year. It happens. I'm not worried at all.
I often wonder about stat pages like this with respect to what do they call a dropped pass vs what fans call a dropped pass.

For me, I will go with the stat guy over what fans think, as in most cases, the fans will call a dropped pass if it even gets close to his hands.

As with you, I'm not worried either. Injuries slowed El Syd, he came back like gangbusters this year. Same same with BB. Get him back healthy and he will be back as a viable asset again.

Marrdro
02-23-2010, 07:44 AM
ejmat wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

ejmat wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

The curious case of Bernard Berrian (http://grants-tomb.blogspot.com/2010/02/curious-case-of-bernard-berrian.html)
LOL, no one wants to hear why I think his yards per AVG dropped, now do they....... :laugh:

I think his regression was quite obvious to a lot of people. His speed was different as well as his difficulty in catchng the football. They don't mention that in this article. He had a few drops.

Berrian has proven he could be productive. This wasn't a good year for him but it wasn't bad either. Just not what we expected of him.

Hopefully he comes back 100% and doesn't re-injure his hammy again. Seems to be his forte as it happened in 2008 too.
Hmmmm, tied for 63rd with 3 dropped passes. That doesn't seem like to many to me.

Pro Football Focus Stats (Dropped Passes) (http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=WR&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1)

I question that statistic my friend. Maybe that is what this site credited him for but memory serves me a little differently. Hell, I think he dropped 3 in one game for goodness sake.
Again, I go with the guys who have access to the tapes, know what was going on (throw to hard, throw behind the reciever, reciever looking for the ball someplace else) vs a fan who probably only got to see the play from the instant the ball got within the recievers bubble.

Just a question, did you read the caveats they have on this page? If you think its more, give them a quick shout, they will give you the analysis of the data.

Marrdro
02-23-2010, 07:46 AM
VikingMike wrote:

Interesting read, thanks. I don't think Berrian is so bad, just never thought he was even close to a #1 receiver, which is what I believe they thought he would be (paying that much for him).

That hammy injury hurt him badly...those things have a way of lasting much longer than you might think. If I recall, he was one of the most vocal in trying to get Favre here. Without the injury to slow him down, I'm sure we would have seen more "go routes" to him this past season.
You know my stance on this, .......

This scheme doesn't use a traditional #1, #2, #3 kindof guy. BB was brought in as a piece to the puzzle with respect to what the staff wanted to do with packages. When he is healthy, he is a good piece, as we saw when Gus/TJ were throwing him the ball.

When his hammie is healthy we will see that again.

BleedinPandG
02-23-2010, 08:07 AM
BB was the MAN in the NFCC... if he can play with that kind of heart next year I think he'll be a much bigger part of our offense. I think his injury slowing him and his resistance to take a hit (face it, he's a bit of a pussy) kept him from being targeted.

What we all have to remember though is there's only 1 football. Favre threw for over 4,000 yards... how many more yards do we expect out of him? If BB gets 1,000 yards are we going to say Shiancoe or Rice or Harvin had down years because their stats decreased?

AngloVike
02-23-2010, 08:10 AM
Marrdro wrote:

When his hammie is healthy we will see that again.[/quote]

I think that was a huge factor during the season. He may not be an outstanding receiver compared to some in the league but it was clear that he wasn't playing to the same level as the year before. Don't think we can blame the QB for this as the positioned had been upgraded with a slightly better retread than in recent years ( said tongue in cheek before the Favre lovers swarm all over my butt ) - and the other WRs linked up ok.
Guess as well when the likes of Rice and Harvin are being favoured due to their production, matchups etc then BB wasn't going to get so many balls thrown his way.

Marrdro
02-23-2010, 08:25 AM
BleedinPandG wrote:

BB was the MAN in the NFCC... if he can play with that kind of heart next year I think he'll be a much bigger part of our offense. I think his injury slowing him and his resistance to take a hit (face it, he's a bit of a pussy) kept him from being targeted.

What we all have to remember though is there's only 1 football. Favre threw for over 4,000 yards... how many more yards do we expect out of him? If BB gets 1,000 yards are we going to say Shiancoe or Rice or Harvin had down years because their stats decreased?
If he lives up to his "God" status, I expect 5,000 my friend.

ejmat
02-23-2010, 08:45 AM
Marrdro wrote:

ejmat wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

ejmat wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

The curious case of Bernard Berrian (http://grants-tomb.blogspot.com/2010/02/curious-case-of-bernard-berrian.html)
LOL, no one wants to hear why I think his yards per AVG dropped, now do they....... :laugh:

I think his regression was quite obvious to a lot of people. His speed was different as well as his difficulty in catchng the football. They don't mention that in this article. He had a few drops.

Berrian has proven he could be productive. This wasn't a good year for him but it wasn't bad either. Just not what we expected of him.

Hopefully he comes back 100% and doesn't re-injure his hammy again. Seems to be his forte as it happened in 2008 too.
Hmmmm, tied for 63rd with 3 dropped passes. That doesn't seem like to many to me.

Pro Football Focus Stats (Dropped Passes) (http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=WR&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1)

I question that statistic my friend. Maybe that is what this site credited him for but memory serves me a little differently. Hell, I think he dropped 3 in one game for goodness sake.
Again, I go with the guys who have access to the tapes, know what was going on (throw to hard, throw behind the reciever, reciever looking for the ball someplace else) vs a fan who probably only got to see the play from the instant the ball got within the recievers bubble.

Just a question, did you read the caveats they have on this page? If you think its more, give them a quick shout, they will give you the analysis of the data.

I can understand your view point. Not questioning that. I do question the actual stat though. We both watched the games. I know he had more than 3 drops. I remember calling him out a few times because of it (more than 3 times throughout the season). Like I said I remember one game where he had like 3 drops.

I know you want to blame a lot on Favre. That is what it is and like everyone else I am not going to worry about that anymore. However, a drop is a drop. Not all the passes were perfectly placed but most of what was thrown this year was catchable. BB had his share as did Harvin.

I still like BB. He can be extremely productive. He is a definite threat when healthy. Right now I think the Vikes are pretty set with WRs however it doesn't mean I would be upset if they upgraded. BB has a history of injuries.

CulpepperViking16
02-23-2010, 09:27 AM
I think we need to give him another season to see how this pans out. We've seen him great, and not so great, so what's one more year to get a clearer view

Prophet
02-23-2010, 10:25 AM
Marrdro wrote:

The curious case of Bernard Berrian (http://grants-tomb.blogspot.com/2010/02/curious-case-of-bernard-berrian.html)
LOL, no one wants to hear why I think his yards per AVG dropped, now do they....... :laugh:

I do, I enjoy watching you bury yourself in illogical comments.

Marrdro
02-23-2010, 10:32 AM
ejmat wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

ejmat wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

ejmat wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

The curious case of Bernard Berrian (http://grants-tomb.blogspot.com/2010/02/curious-case-of-bernard-berrian.html)
LOL, no one wants to hear why I think his yards per AVG dropped, now do they....... :laugh:

I think his regression was quite obvious to a lot of people. His speed was different as well as his difficulty in catchng the football. They don't mention that in this article. He had a few drops.

Berrian has proven he could be productive. This wasn't a good year for him but it wasn't bad either. Just not what we expected of him.

Hopefully he comes back 100% and doesn't re-injure his hammy again. Seems to be his forte as it happened in 2008 too.
Hmmmm, tied for 63rd with 3 dropped passes. That doesn't seem like to many to me.

Pro Football Focus Stats (Dropped Passes) (http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=WR&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1)

I question that statistic my friend. Maybe that is what this site credited him for but memory serves me a little differently. Hell, I think he dropped 3 in one game for goodness sake.
Again, I go with the guys who have access to the tapes, know what was going on (throw to hard, throw behind the reciever, reciever looking for the ball someplace else) vs a fan who probably only got to see the play from the instant the ball got within the recievers bubble.

Just a question, did you read the caveats they have on this page? If you think its more, give them a quick shout, they will give you the analysis of the data.

I can understand your view point. Not questioning that. I do question the actual stat though. We both watched the games. I know he had more than 3 drops. I remember calling him out a few times because of it (more than 3 times throughout the season). Like I said I remember one game where he had like 3 drops.

I know you want to blame a lot on Favre. That is what it is and like everyone else I am not going to worry about that anymore. However, a drop is a drop. Not all the passes were perfectly placed but most of what was thrown this year was catchable. BB had his share as did Harvin.

I still like BB. He can be extremely productive. He is a definite threat when healthy. Right now I think the Vikes are pretty set with WRs however it doesn't mean I would be upset if they upgraded. BB has a history of injuries.
We can have a logical discussion about placement of the ball, defenders hanging onto recievers etc etc without laying blame on the Noodle my friend (which I didn't by the way).

My only discussion point with you was mostly related to how fans count drops. I'm not one of those "it hit him in the hands he should have caught it" kindof guys. I know there are alot of variables that go into a dropped ball and alot fo them aren't the recievers fault.

Again, if you have a problem with how many they classified as drops, go to them and ask for the data. As they said on thier page, the stand by thier info.

Marrdro
02-23-2010, 10:34 AM
Prophet wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

The curious case of Bernard Berrian (http://grants-tomb.blogspot.com/2010/02/curious-case-of-bernard-berrian.html)
LOL, no one wants to hear why I think his yards per AVG dropped, now do they....... :laugh:

I do, I enjoy watching you bury yourself in illogical comments.
So do I.....You know I will do just about anything to get a football discussion going even if that means I need to say something to charge people up. ;)

Marrdro
02-23-2010, 10:36 AM
CulpepperViking16 wrote:

I think we need to give him another season to see how this pans out. We've seen him great, and not so great, so what's one more year to get a clearer view
I agree, let him see if he can get healthy as well as stay healthy. If he can't, you have cats like JJ or DR standing in the wings ready to go.

Hell, when we draft Colt, you could also grab Jordan Shipley. He had a heck of a championship game after Colt went down.

Prophet
02-23-2010, 10:44 AM
Marrdro wrote:

Prophet wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

The curious case of Bernard Berrian (http://grants-tomb.blogspot.com/2010/02/curious-case-of-bernard-berrian.html)
LOL, no one wants to hear why I think his yards per AVG dropped, now do they....... :laugh:

I do, I enjoy watching you bury yourself in illogical comments.
So do I.....You know I will do just about anything to get a football discussion going even if that means I need to say something to charge people up. ;)

It's getting more and more difficult to get the old marrdro to surface. Did you attend the anger management class with Kyle Turley or something?

Marrdro
02-23-2010, 10:47 AM
Prophet wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

Prophet wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

The curious case of Bernard Berrian (http://grants-tomb.blogspot.com/2010/02/curious-case-of-bernard-berrian.html)
LOL, no one wants to hear why I think his yards per AVG dropped, now do they....... :laugh:

I do, I enjoy watching you bury yourself in illogical comments.
So do I.....You know I will do just about anything to get a football discussion going even if that means I need to say something to charge people up. ;)

It's getting more and more difficult to get the old marrdro to surface. Did you attend the anger management class with Kyle Turley or something?
LOL, naw, I already lost enough "Credibility" around here. Why make it worse? ;)

Prophet
02-23-2010, 10:50 AM
Marrdro wrote:

Prophet wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

Prophet wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

The curious case of Bernard Berrian (http://grants-tomb.blogspot.com/2010/02/curious-case-of-bernard-berrian.html)
LOL, no one wants to hear why I think his yards per AVG dropped, now do they....... :laugh:

I do, I enjoy watching you bury yourself in illogical comments.
So do I.....You know I will do just about anything to get a football discussion going even if that means I need to say something to charge people up. ;)

It's getting more and more difficult to get the old marrdro to surface. Did you attend the anger management class with Kyle Turley or something?
LOL, naw, I already lost enough "Credibility" around here. Why make it worse? ;)

You have no worries. The lions are to NFL dynasties as marrdro is to pp.o credibility.

Zeus
02-23-2010, 11:05 AM
Marrdro wrote:

My only discussion point with you was mostly related to how fans count drops. I'm not one of those "it hit him in the hands he should have caught it" kindof guys. I know there are alot of variables that go into a dropped ball and alot fo them aren't the recievers fault.

Again, if you have a problem with how many they classified as drops, go to them and ask for the data. As they said on thier page, the stand by thier info.

Drops, BTW, are not an official NFL statistic for this exact reason. That's why I tend to discount those stats.

As to Berrian - his hammy clearly was hurting during a large part of the season. Sid Rice is now the deep threat. Berrian is not need to "stretch the field". If there's money to be saved that could be spent elsewhere, I'm all for letting him go.

=Z=

Marrdro
02-23-2010, 11:18 AM
Zeus wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

My only discussion point with you was mostly related to how fans count drops. I'm not one of those "it hit him in the hands he should have caught it" kindof guys. I know there are alot of variables that go into a dropped ball and alot fo them aren't the recievers fault.

Again, if you have a problem with how many they classified as drops, go to them and ask for the data. As they said on thier page, the stand by thier info.

Drops, BTW, are not an official NFL statistic for this exact reason. That's why I tend to discount those stats.

As to Berrian - his hammy clearly was hurting during a large part of the season. Sid Rice is now the deep threat. Berrian is not need to "stretch the field". If there's money to be saved that could be spent elsewhere, I'm all for letting him go.

=Z=
They are subjective, thats for sure, but why discount them?

Even if they were a bit off in thier grading criteria, wouldn't that apply across the board to all recievers, wich should give us a fairly decent sampling when it comes to a reciever having the droppsies?

Long story short, I live for stats, you know it and I use this site above all others, mostly because they stand by thier stats.

Doesn't make them perfect, just a criteria I liked.

ejmat
02-23-2010, 11:22 AM
Marrdro wrote:

ejmat wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

ejmat wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

ejmat wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

The curious case of Bernard Berrian (http://grants-tomb.blogspot.com/2010/02/curious-case-of-bernard-berrian.html)
LOL, no one wants to hear why I think his yards per AVG dropped, now do they....... :laugh:

I think his regression was quite obvious to a lot of people. His speed was different as well as his difficulty in catchng the football. They don't mention that in this article. He had a few drops.

Berrian has proven he could be productive. This wasn't a good year for him but it wasn't bad either. Just not what we expected of him.

Hopefully he comes back 100% and doesn't re-injure his hammy again. Seems to be his forte as it happened in 2008 too.
Hmmmm, tied for 63rd with 3 dropped passes. That doesn't seem like to many to me.

Pro Football Focus Stats (Dropped Passes) (http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=WR&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1)

I question that statistic my friend. Maybe that is what this site credited him for but memory serves me a little differently. Hell, I think he dropped 3 in one game for goodness sake.
Again, I go with the guys who have access to the tapes, know what was going on (throw to hard, throw behind the reciever, reciever looking for the ball someplace else) vs a fan who probably only got to see the play from the instant the ball got within the recievers bubble.

Just a question, did you read the caveats they have on this page? If you think its more, give them a quick shout, they will give you the analysis of the data.

I can understand your view point. Not questioning that. I do question the actual stat though. We both watched the games. I know he had more than 3 drops. I remember calling him out a few times because of it (more than 3 times throughout the season). Like I said I remember one game where he had like 3 drops.

I know you want to blame a lot on Favre. That is what it is and like everyone else I am not going to worry about that anymore. However, a drop is a drop. Not all the passes were perfectly placed but most of what was thrown this year was catchable. BB had his share as did Harvin.

I still like BB. He can be extremely productive. He is a definite threat when healthy. Right now I think the Vikes are pretty set with WRs however it doesn't mean I would be upset if they upgraded. BB has a history of injuries.
We can have a logical discussion about placement of the ball, defenders hanging onto recievers etc etc without laying blame on the Noodle my friend (which I didn't by the way).

My only discussion point with you was mostly related to how fans count drops. I'm not one of those "it hit him in the hands he should have caught it" kindof guys. I know there are alot of variables that go into a dropped ball and alot fo them aren't the recievers fault.

Again, if you have a problem with how many they classified as drops, go to them and ask for the data. As they said on thier page, the stand by thier info.

I know you didn't directly blame Favre (or the noodle :laugh: ) but because of the history I took it that way when you started talking about things not always being the WR fault. I apologize if that isn't where you were going with that.

I do agree it isn't always the WR fault. Some catches are much tougher than others. I also know what I saw this year and as much as I like Berrian I also know he dropped more than 3 passes. Am I going to waste my time writing people to ask them to change their statistics? Nope. I question that statistic because I know what I watched. I don't know what variables they put into a statistic when deaming if it is dropped or not. Honestly I really don't care. What I do care about is what I saw and I know I saw him drop or not catch balls that he should have caught this year. I also know there was more than 3 times. It is what it is. If the statistic you post says 3 then I can't argue it. I can definitely question it and I do. But as far as spending the time writing them in the hopes they change a stat isn't really worth it in the grand scheme of things.

Zeus
02-23-2010, 11:22 AM
Marrdro wrote:

Zeus wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

My only discussion point with you was mostly related to how fans count drops. I'm not one of those "it hit him in the hands he should have caught it" kindof guys. I know there are alot of variables that go into a dropped ball and alot fo them aren't the recievers fault.

Again, if you have a problem with how many they classified as drops, go to them and ask for the data. As they said on thier page, the stand by thier info.

Drops, BTW, are not an official NFL statistic for this exact reason. That's why I tend to discount those stats.

As to Berrian - his hammy clearly was hurting during a large part of the season. Sid Rice is now the deep threat. Berrian is not need to "stretch the field". If there's money to be saved that could be spent elsewhere, I'm all for letting him go.

They are subjective, thats for sure, but why discount them?

Even if they were a bit off in thier grading criteria, wouldn't that apply across the board to all recievers, wich should give us a fairly decent sampling when it comes to a reciever having the droppsies?

Long story short, I live for stats, you know it and I use this site above all others, mostly because they stand by thier stats.

Doesn't make them perfect, just a criteria I liked.

I discount non-official stats, period. There's a reason, in this day and age of over-information, that they aren't official. And that's good enough for me.

=Z=

Marrdro
02-23-2010, 11:24 AM
ejmat wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

ejmat wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

ejmat wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

ejmat wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

The curious case of Bernard Berrian (http://grants-tomb.blogspot.com/2010/02/curious-case-of-bernard-berrian.html)
LOL, no one wants to hear why I think his yards per AVG dropped, now do they....... :laugh:

I think his regression was quite obvious to a lot of people. His speed was different as well as his difficulty in catchng the football. They don't mention that in this article. He had a few drops.

Berrian has proven he could be productive. This wasn't a good year for him but it wasn't bad either. Just not what we expected of him.

Hopefully he comes back 100% and doesn't re-injure his hammy again. Seems to be his forte as it happened in 2008 too.
Hmmmm, tied for 63rd with 3 dropped passes. That doesn't seem like to many to me.

Pro Football Focus Stats (Dropped Passes) (http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=WR&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1)

I question that statistic my friend. Maybe that is what this site credited him for but memory serves me a little differently. Hell, I think he dropped 3 in one game for goodness sake.
Again, I go with the guys who have access to the tapes, know what was going on (throw to hard, throw behind the reciever, reciever looking for the ball someplace else) vs a fan who probably only got to see the play from the instant the ball got within the recievers bubble.

Just a question, did you read the caveats they have on this page? If you think its more, give them a quick shout, they will give you the analysis of the data.

I can understand your view point. Not questioning that. I do question the actual stat though. We both watched the games. I know he had more than 3 drops. I remember calling him out a few times because of it (more than 3 times throughout the season). Like I said I remember one game where he had like 3 drops.

I know you want to blame a lot on Favre. That is what it is and like everyone else I am not going to worry about that anymore. However, a drop is a drop. Not all the passes were perfectly placed but most of what was thrown this year was catchable. BB had his share as did Harvin.

I still like BB. He can be extremely productive. He is a definite threat when healthy. Right now I think the Vikes are pretty set with WRs however it doesn't mean I would be upset if they upgraded. BB has a history of injuries.
We can have a logical discussion about placement of the ball, defenders hanging onto recievers etc etc without laying blame on the Noodle my friend (which I didn't by the way).

My only discussion point with you was mostly related to how fans count drops. I'm not one of those "it hit him in the hands he should have caught it" kindof guys. I know there are alot of variables that go into a dropped ball and alot fo them aren't the recievers fault.

Again, if you have a problem with how many they classified as drops, go to them and ask for the data. As they said on thier page, the stand by thier info.

I know you didn't directly blame Favre (or the noodle :laugh: ) but because of the history I took it that way when you started talking about things not always being the WR fault. I apologize if that isn't where you were going with that.

I do agree it isn't always the WR fault. Some catches are much tougher than others. I also know what I saw this year and as much as I like Berrian I also know he dropped more than 3 passes. Am I going to waste my time writing people to ask them to change their statistics? Nope. I question that statistic because I know what I watched. I don't know what variables they put into a statistic when deaming if it is dropped or not. Honestly I really don't care. What I do care about is what I saw and I know I saw him drop or not catch balls that he should have caught this year. I also know there was more than 3 times. It is what it is. If the statistic you post says 3 then I can't argue it. I can definitely question it and I do. But as far as spending the time writing them in the hopes they change a stat isn't really worth it in the grand scheme of things.
I need to start a thread centered around the topic PPO members I haven't met yet, but want to.....I think I would have you in my top 5..... ;)

PackSux!
02-23-2010, 11:26 AM
Zeus wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

My only discussion point with you was mostly related to how fans count drops. I'm not one of those "it hit him in the hands he should have caught it" kindof guys. I know there are alot of variables that go into a dropped ball and alot fo them aren't the recievers fault.

Again, if you have a problem with how many they classified as drops, go to them and ask for the data. As they said on thier page, the stand by thier info.

Drops, BTW, are not an official NFL statistic for this exact reason. That's why I tend to discount those stats.

As to Berrian - his hammy clearly was hurting during a large part of the season. Sid Rice is now the deep threat. Berrian is not need to "stretch the field". If there's money to be saved that could be spent elsewhere, I'm all for letting him go.

=Z=

Trade him for Moss!

That will solve everything.

Marrdro
02-23-2010, 11:26 AM
Zeus wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

Zeus wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

My only discussion point with you was mostly related to how fans count drops. I'm not one of those "it hit him in the hands he should have caught it" kindof guys. I know there are alot of variables that go into a dropped ball and alot fo them aren't the recievers fault.

Again, if you have a problem with how many they classified as drops, go to them and ask for the data. As they said on thier page, the stand by thier info.

Drops, BTW, are not an official NFL statistic for this exact reason. That's why I tend to discount those stats.

As to Berrian - his hammy clearly was hurting during a large part of the season. Sid Rice is now the deep threat. Berrian is not need to "stretch the field". If there's money to be saved that could be spent elsewhere, I'm all for letting him go.

They are subjective, thats for sure, but why discount them?

Even if they were a bit off in thier grading criteria, wouldn't that apply across the board to all recievers, wich should give us a fairly decent sampling when it comes to a reciever having the droppsies?

Long story short, I live for stats, you know it and I use this site above all others, mostly because they stand by thier stats.

Doesn't make them perfect, just a criteria I liked.

I discount non-official stats, period. There's a reason, in this day and age of over-information, that they aren't official. And that's good enough for me.

=Z=
Gotcha. No worries with that.

Problem with a cat like me is that I love to over analyze everything. Stats like that help me in that effort. Alas, one of my many failings in life.

Zeus
02-23-2010, 11:28 AM
PackSux! wrote:

Zeus wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

My only discussion point with you was mostly related to how fans count drops. I'm not one of those "it hit him in the hands he should have caught it" kindof guys. I know there are alot of variables that go into a dropped ball and alot fo them aren't the recievers fault.

Again, if you have a problem with how many they classified as drops, go to them and ask for the data. As they said on thier page, the stand by thier info.

Drops, BTW, are not an official NFL statistic for this exact reason. That's why I tend to discount those stats.

As to Berrian - his hammy clearly was hurting during a large part of the season. Sid Rice is now the deep threat. Berrian is not need to "stretch the field". If there's money to be saved that could be spent elsewhere, I'm all for letting him go.

Trade him for Moss!

That will solve everything.

Dear God, no. Moss = Sid Rice. They are the same type of player. What the Vikings need is a possession guy like Welker who can play in the slot or on the outside.

=Z=

Prophet
02-23-2010, 11:30 AM
Bernard Berrian is the current Nate Burleson on the squad. Poison pill him off to some unsuspecting team.

Marrdro
02-23-2010, 11:33 AM
Prophet wrote:

Bernard Berrian is the current Nate Burleson on the squad. Poison pill him off to some unsuspecting team.
I tried to get a "Trade Him" discussion going in another thread with no takers though.

tastywaves
02-23-2010, 11:33 AM
Zeus wrote:

PackSux! wrote:

Zeus wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

My only discussion point with you was mostly related to how fans count drops. I'm not one of those "it hit him in the hands he should have caught it" kindof guys. I know there are alot of variables that go into a dropped ball and alot fo them aren't the recievers fault.

Again, if you have a problem with how many they classified as drops, go to them and ask for the data. As they said on thier page, the stand by thier info.

Drops, BTW, are not an official NFL statistic for this exact reason. That's why I tend to discount those stats.

As to Berrian - his hammy clearly was hurting during a large part of the season. Sid Rice is now the deep threat. Berrian is not need to "stretch the field". If there's money to be saved that could be spent elsewhere, I'm all for letting him go.

Trade him for Moss!

That will solve everything.

Dear God, no. Moss = Sid Rice. They are the same type of player. What the Vikings need is a possession guy like Welker who can play in the slot or on the outside.

=Z=

Jordan Shipley

Prophet
02-23-2010, 11:34 AM
Marrdro wrote:

Prophet wrote:

Bernard Berrian is the current Nate Burleson on the squad. Poison pill him off to some unsuspecting team.
I tried to get a "Trade Him" discussion going in another thread with no takers though.

Berrian has some skills, but, he is, without a doubt, in the dime-a-dozen category of WRs.

tastywaves
02-23-2010, 11:37 AM
Prophet wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

Prophet wrote:

Bernard Berrian is the current Nate Burleson on the squad. Poison pill him off to some unsuspecting team.
I tried to get a "Trade Him" discussion going in another thread with no takers though.

Berrian has some skills, but, he is, without a doubt, in the dime-a-dozen category of WRs.

Yea, pretty much sums him up. Deserves a spot on a starting NFL roster, but not a dominant receiver.

PackSux!
02-23-2010, 11:37 AM
Zeus wrote:

PackSux! wrote:

Zeus wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

My only discussion point with you was mostly related to how fans count drops. I'm not one of those "it hit him in the hands he should have caught it" kindof guys. I know there are alot of variables that go into a dropped ball and alot fo them aren't the recievers fault.

Again, if you have a problem with how many they classified as drops, go to them and ask for the data. As they said on thier page, the stand by thier info.

Drops, BTW, are not an official NFL statistic for this exact reason. That's why I tend to discount those stats.

As to Berrian - his hammy clearly was hurting during a large part of the season. Sid Rice is now the deep threat. Berrian is not need to "stretch the field". If there's money to be saved that could be spent elsewhere, I'm all for letting him go.

Trade him for Moss!

That will solve everything.

Dear God, no. Moss = Sid Rice. They are the same type of player. What the Vikings need is a possession guy like Welker who can play in the slot or on the outside.

=Z=

Yes I agree. I was more or less joking about trading Berrian for Moss, that wouldnt solve anything but perhaps make it worse.

I did get a decent little discussion going in the Moss to minny thread when I brought up trading Berrian for Moss.

V4L
02-23-2010, 11:39 AM
tastywaves wrote:

Zeus wrote:

PackSux! wrote:

Zeus wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

My only discussion point with you was mostly related to how fans count drops. I'm not one of those "it hit him in the hands he should have caught it" kindof guys. I know there are alot of variables that go into a dropped ball and alot fo them aren't the recievers fault.

Again, if you have a problem with how many they classified as drops, go to them and ask for the data. As they said on thier page, the stand by thier info.

Drops, BTW, are not an official NFL statistic for this exact reason. That's why I tend to discount those stats.

As to Berrian - his hammy clearly was hurting during a large part of the season. Sid Rice is now the deep threat. Berrian is not need to "stretch the field". If there's money to be saved that could be spent elsewhere, I'm all for letting him go.

Trade him for Moss!

That will solve everything.

Dear God, no. Moss = Sid Rice. They are the same type of player. What the Vikings need is a possession guy like Welker who can play in the slot or on the outside.

=Z=

Jordan Shipley


Percy Harvin

Sajid28
02-23-2010, 11:44 AM
V4L wrote:

tastywaves wrote:

Zeus wrote:

PackSux! wrote:

Zeus wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

My only discussion point with you was mostly related to how fans count drops. I'm not one of those "it hit him in the hands he should have caught it" kindof guys. I know there are alot of variables that go into a dropped ball and alot fo them aren't the recievers fault.

Again, if you have a problem with how many they classified as drops, go to them and ask for the data. As they said on thier page, the stand by thier info.

Drops, BTW, are not an official NFL statistic for this exact reason. That's why I tend to discount those stats.

As to Berrian - his hammy clearly was hurting during a large part of the season. Sid Rice is now the deep threat. Berrian is not need to "stretch the field". If there's money to be saved that could be spent elsewhere, I'm all for letting him go.

Trade him for Moss!

That will solve everything.

Dear God, no. Moss = Sid Rice. They are the same type of player. What the Vikings need is a possession guy like Welker who can play in the slot or on the outside.

=Z=

Jordan Shipley


Percy Harvin

we need to start using percy like wes.

PackSux!
02-23-2010, 11:50 AM
Sajid28 wrote:

V4L wrote:

tastywaves wrote:

Zeus wrote:

PackSux! wrote:

Zeus wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

My only discussion point with you was mostly related to how fans count drops. I'm not one of those "it hit him in the hands he should have caught it" kindof guys. I know there are alot of variables that go into a dropped ball and alot fo them aren't the recievers fault.

Again, if you have a problem with how many they classified as drops, go to them and ask for the data. As they said on thier page, the stand by thier info.

Drops, BTW, are not an official NFL statistic for this exact reason. That's why I tend to discount those stats.

As to Berrian - his hammy clearly was hurting during a large part of the season. Sid Rice is now the deep threat. Berrian is not need to "stretch the field". If there's money to be saved that could be spent elsewhere, I'm all for letting him go.

Trade him for Moss!

That will solve everything.

Dear God, no. Moss = Sid Rice. They are the same type of player. What the Vikings need is a possession guy like Welker who can play in the slot or on the outside.

=Z=

Jordan Shipley


Percy Harvin

we need to start using percy like wes.

With more experience Percy will be better then Welker, and I believe he will be used like Wes is and even more.

mountainviking
02-23-2010, 12:11 PM
Isn't it nice to finally have a recieving core!? We went from Bobby Wade as leading WR, to Berrian's big year, to Rice and Harvin passing the whole crew up!! :cheer:

IF we get BB back to full health/speed, this crew could be even better! Maybe, that is more why they're so willing to let Mr. Clutch Taylor sign elsewhere, than the quality of our other backs...?

Could we be slowly moving toward a more Philly-pass first attack?

Marrdro
02-23-2010, 12:15 PM
mountainviking wrote:

Isn't it nice to finally have a recieving core!? We went from Bobby Wade as leading WR, to Berrian's big year, to Rice and Harvin passing the whole crew up!! :cheer:

IF we get BB back to full health/speed, this crew could be even better! Maybe, that is more why they're so willing to let Mr. Clutch Taylor sign elsewhere, than the quality of our other backs...?

Could we be slowly moving toward a more Philly-pass first attack?
Good points my friend.

As to the shift to the "Philly-pass first", I sure the hell hope not. I want a team that can exploit the other teams weakness.

If they can't stop the run, we run and mix play action in.....If they can't stop the pass we pass and mix in some run.

i_bleed_purple
02-23-2010, 12:16 PM
V4L wrote:

tastywaves wrote:

Zeus wrote:

PackSux! wrote:

Zeus wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

My only discussion point with you was mostly related to how fans count drops. I'm not one of those "it hit him in the hands he should have caught it" kindof guys. I know there are alot of variables that go into a dropped ball and alot fo them aren't the recievers fault.

Again, if you have a problem with how many they classified as drops, go to them and ask for the data. As they said on thier page, the stand by thier info.

Drops, BTW, are not an official NFL statistic for this exact reason. That's why I tend to discount those stats.

As to Berrian - his hammy clearly was hurting during a large part of the season. Sid Rice is now the deep threat. Berrian is not need to "stretch the field". If there's money to be saved that could be spent elsewhere, I'm all for letting him go.

Trade him for Moss!

That will solve everything.

Dear God, no. Moss = Sid Rice. They are the same type of player. What the Vikings need is a possession guy like Welker who can play in the slot or on the outside.

=Z=

Jordan Shipley


Percy Harvin

he seems to drop too many to play the Welker role right now. I think with a couple years under him he could become a very reliable slot guy, but right now he seems best in the intermediate route. As he gets older and learns the game more, he could be a welker, or steve smith kind of guy.

Marrdro
02-23-2010, 12:24 PM
i_bleed_purple wrote:

V4L wrote:

tastywaves wrote:

Zeus wrote:

PackSux! wrote:

Zeus wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

My only discussion point with you was mostly related to how fans count drops. I'm not one of those "it hit him in the hands he should have caught it" kindof guys. I know there are alot of variables that go into a dropped ball and alot fo them aren't the recievers fault.

Again, if you have a problem with how many they classified as drops, go to them and ask for the data. As they said on thier page, the stand by thier info.

Drops, BTW, are not an official NFL statistic for this exact reason. That's why I tend to discount those stats.

As to Berrian - his hammy clearly was hurting during a large part of the season. Sid Rice is now the deep threat. Berrian is not need to "stretch the field". If there's money to be saved that could be spent elsewhere, I'm all for letting him go.

Trade him for Moss!

That will solve everything.

Dear God, no. Moss = Sid Rice. They are the same type of player. What the Vikings need is a possession guy like Welker who can play in the slot or on the outside.

=Z=

Jordan Shipley


Percy Harvin

he seems to drop too many to play the Welker role right now. I think with a couple years under him he could become a very reliable slot guy, but right now he seems best in the intermediate route. As he gets older and learns the game more, he could be a welker, or steve smith kind of guy.
Tied at 46th with 4 dropped passes.



Pro Football Focus WR stats (http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=WR&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1)

i_bleed_purple
02-23-2010, 12:26 PM
Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

V4L wrote:

tastywaves wrote:

Zeus wrote:

PackSux! wrote:

Zeus wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

My only discussion point with you was mostly related to how fans count drops. I'm not one of those "it hit him in the hands he should have caught it" kindof guys. I know there are alot of variables that go into a dropped ball and alot fo them aren't the recievers fault.

Again, if you have a problem with how many they classified as drops, go to them and ask for the data. As they said on thier page, the stand by thier info.

Drops, BTW, are not an official NFL statistic for this exact reason. That's why I tend to discount those stats.

As to Berrian - his hammy clearly was hurting during a large part of the season. Sid Rice is now the deep threat. Berrian is not need to "stretch the field". If there's money to be saved that could be spent elsewhere, I'm all for letting him go.

Trade him for Moss!

That will solve everything.

Dear God, no. Moss = Sid Rice. They are the same type of player. What the Vikings need is a possession guy like Welker who can play in the slot or on the outside.

=Z=

Jordan Shipley


Percy Harvin

he seems to drop too many to play the Welker role right now. I think with a couple years under him he could become a very reliable slot guy, but right now he seems best in the intermediate route. As he gets older and learns the game more, he could be a welker, or steve smith kind of guy.
Tied at 46th with 4 dropped passes.



Pro Football Focus WR stats (http://www.purplepride.org/index.php/community/discussion/2-vikings-fan-forum/1041495-rethe-curious-case-of-bernard-berrian/post/quote)

once again, I'm not a fan of those drop stats, I doubt their accuracy.

however, I'm not saying he has a drop problem, but his hand's aren't great. I expect they'll get better as he gets used to the pro game, he might get there, but he's not there yet, just my opinion.

ejmat
02-23-2010, 12:49 PM
Marrdro wrote:

ejmat wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

ejmat wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

ejmat wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

ejmat wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

The curious case of Bernard Berrian (http://grants-tomb.blogspot.com/2010/02/curious-case-of-bernard-berrian.html)
LOL, no one wants to hear why I think his yards per AVG dropped, now do they....... :laugh:

I think his regression was quite obvious to a lot of people. His speed was different as well as his difficulty in catchng the football. They don't mention that in this article. He had a few drops.

Berrian has proven he could be productive. This wasn't a good year for him but it wasn't bad either. Just not what we expected of him.

Hopefully he comes back 100% and doesn't re-injure his hammy again. Seems to be his forte as it happened in 2008 too.
Hmmmm, tied for 63rd with 3 dropped passes. That doesn't seem like to many to me.

Pro Football Focus Stats (Dropped Passes) (http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=WR&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1)

I question that statistic my friend. Maybe that is what this site credited him for but memory serves me a little differently. Hell, I think he dropped 3 in one game for goodness sake.
Again, I go with the guys who have access to the tapes, know what was going on (throw to hard, throw behind the reciever, reciever looking for the ball someplace else) vs a fan who probably only got to see the play from the instant the ball got within the recievers bubble.

Just a question, did you read the caveats they have on this page? If you think its more, give them a quick shout, they will give you the analysis of the data.

I can understand your view point. Not questioning that. I do question the actual stat though. We both watched the games. I know he had more than 3 drops. I remember calling him out a few times because of it (more than 3 times throughout the season). Like I said I remember one game where he had like 3 drops.

I know you want to blame a lot on Favre. That is what it is and like everyone else I am not going to worry about that anymore. However, a drop is a drop. Not all the passes were perfectly placed but most of what was thrown this year was catchable. BB had his share as did Harvin.

I still like BB. He can be extremely productive. He is a definite threat when healthy. Right now I think the Vikes are pretty set with WRs however it doesn't mean I would be upset if they upgraded. BB has a history of injuries.
We can have a logical discussion about placement of the ball, defenders hanging onto recievers etc etc without laying blame on the Noodle my friend (which I didn't by the way).

My only discussion point with you was mostly related to how fans count drops. I'm not one of those "it hit him in the hands he should have caught it" kindof guys. I know there are alot of variables that go into a dropped ball and alot fo them aren't the recievers fault.

Again, if you have a problem with how many they classified as drops, go to them and ask for the data. As they said on thier page, the stand by thier info.

I know you didn't directly blame Favre (or the noodle :laugh: ) but because of the history I took it that way when you started talking about things not always being the WR fault. I apologize if that isn't where you were going with that.

I do agree it isn't always the WR fault. Some catches are much tougher than others. I also know what I saw this year and as much as I like Berrian I also know he dropped more than 3 passes. Am I going to waste my time writing people to ask them to change their statistics? Nope. I question that statistic because I know what I watched. I don't know what variables they put into a statistic when deaming if it is dropped or not. Honestly I really don't care. What I do care about is what I saw and I know I saw him drop or not catch balls that he should have caught this year. I also know there was more than 3 times. It is what it is. If the statistic you post says 3 then I can't argue it. I can definitely question it and I do. But as far as spending the time writing them in the hopes they change a stat isn't really worth it in the grand scheme of things.
I need to start a thread centered around the topic PPO members I haven't met yet, but want to.....I think I would have you in my top 5..... ;)

LOL Marrdro. I don't know if I should take that as a compliment or what :laugh: It sounds like a good thread to me but there are many on here I would like to meet that I haven't yet. Actually my friend you would be there yourself.

Marrdro
02-23-2010, 12:54 PM
i_bleed_purple wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

V4L wrote:

tastywaves wrote:

Zeus wrote:

PackSux! wrote:

Zeus wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

My only discussion point with you was mostly related to how fans count drops. I'm not one of those "it hit him in the hands he should have caught it" kindof guys. I know there are alot of variables that go into a dropped ball and alot fo them aren't the recievers fault.

Again, if you have a problem with how many they classified as drops, go to them and ask for the data. As they said on thier page, the stand by thier info.

Drops, BTW, are not an official NFL statistic for this exact reason. That's why I tend to discount those stats.

As to Berrian - his hammy clearly was hurting during a large part of the season. Sid Rice is now the deep threat. Berrian is not need to "stretch the field". If there's money to be saved that could be spent elsewhere, I'm all for letting him go.

Trade him for Moss!

That will solve everything.

Dear God, no. Moss = Sid Rice. They are the same type of player. What the Vikings need is a possession guy like Welker who can play in the slot or on the outside.

=Z=

Jordan Shipley


Percy Harvin

he seems to drop too many to play the Welker role right now. I think with a couple years under him he could become a very reliable slot guy, but right now he seems best in the intermediate route. As he gets older and learns the game more, he could be a welker, or steve smith kind of guy.
Tied at 46th with 4 dropped passes.



Pro Football Focus WR stats (http://www.purplepride.org/index.php/community/discussion/2-vikings-fan-forum/1041495-rethe-curious-case-of-bernard-berrian/post/quote)

once again, I'm not a fan of those drop stats, I doubt their accuracy.

however, I'm not saying he has a drop problem, but his hand's aren't great. I expect they'll get better as he gets used to the pro game, he might get there, but he's not there yet, just my opinion.
I thought the dude made some mad catches this year especially considering how he was learning the tree and caught alot of his balls in traffic.

That catch in the Steelers game when the Noodle hit him with 3 defenders around him was a thing of beauty.

Long story short, those hands will get better as his confidence grows.

vikinggreg
02-23-2010, 04:18 PM
Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

V4L wrote:

tastywaves wrote:

Zeus wrote:

PackSux! wrote:

Zeus wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

My only discussion point with you was mostly related to how fans count drops. I'm not one of those "it hit him in the hands he should have caught it" kindof guys. I know there are alot of variables that go into a dropped ball and alot fo them aren't the recievers fault.

Again, if you have a problem with how many they classified as drops, go to them and ask for the data. As they said on thier page, the stand by thier info.

Drops, BTW, are not an official NFL statistic for this exact reason. That's why I tend to discount those stats.

As to Berrian - his hammy clearly was hurting during a large part of the season. Sid Rice is now the deep threat. Berrian is not need to "stretch the field". If there's money to be saved that could be spent elsewhere, I'm all for letting him go.

Trade him for Moss!

That will solve everything.

Dear God, no. Moss = Sid Rice. They are the same type of player. What the Vikings need is a possession guy like Welker who can play in the slot or on the outside.

=Z=

Jordan Shipley


Percy Harvin

he seems to drop too many to play the Welker role right now. I think with a couple years under him he could become a very reliable slot guy, but right now he seems best in the intermediate route. As he gets older and learns the game more, he could be a welker, or steve smith kind of guy.
Tied at 46th with 4 dropped passes.



Pro Football Focus WR stats (http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=WR&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1)

How much faith do you put into that sites stats, they do rank Favre as the best passing QB in the league and second overall behind Rivers if you check ;)

These are by their grades which are subjective much like what is a drop

Minniman
02-23-2010, 06:34 PM
Marrdro wrote:

ejmat wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

The curious case of Bernard Berrian (http://grants-tomb.blogspot.com/2010/02/curious-case-of-bernard-berrian.html)
LOL, no one wants to hear why I think his yards per AVG dropped, now do they....... :laugh:

I think his regression was quite obvious to a lot of people. His speed was different as well as his difficulty in catchng the football. They don't mention that in this article. He had a few drops.

Berrian has proven he could be productive. This wasn't a good year for him but it wasn't bad either. Just not what we expected of him.

Hopefully he comes back 100% and doesn't re-injure his hammy again. Seems to be his forte as it happened in 2008 too.
Hmmmm, tied for 63rd with 3 dropped passes. That doesn't seem like too many to me.

Pro Football Focus Stats (Dropped Passes) (http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=WR&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1)

Those only include passes right on the numbers and right on the hands.

When Favre passes to the sideline side of the receiver on a quick out and Berrian has it go off his hands, that is not counted as a drop. An "on-target" pass would likely get defended or picked, so Favre must make that throw, and Berrian should catch it, but it does not count against Berrian - to some stat recorders, anyway.

i_bleed_purple
02-23-2010, 06:45 PM
Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

V4L wrote:

tastywaves wrote:

Zeus wrote:

PackSux! wrote:

Zeus wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

My only discussion point with you was mostly related to how fans count drops. I'm not one of those "it hit him in the hands he should have caught it" kindof guys. I know there are alot of variables that go into a dropped ball and alot fo them aren't the recievers fault.

Again, if you have a problem with how many they classified as drops, go to them and ask for the data. As they said on thier page, the stand by thier info.

Drops, BTW, are not an official NFL statistic for this exact reason. That's why I tend to discount those stats.

As to Berrian - his hammy clearly was hurting during a large part of the season. Sid Rice is now the deep threat. Berrian is not need to "stretch the field". If there's money to be saved that could be spent elsewhere, I'm all for letting him go.

Trade him for Moss!

That will solve everything.

Dear God, no. Moss = Sid Rice. They are the same type of player. What the Vikings need is a possession guy like Welker who can play in the slot or on the outside.

=Z=

Jordan Shipley


Percy Harvin

he seems to drop too many to play the Welker role right now. I think with a couple years under him he could become a very reliable slot guy, but right now he seems best in the intermediate route. As he gets older and learns the game more, he could be a welker, or steve smith kind of guy.
Tied at 46th with 4 dropped passes.



Pro Football Focus WR stats (http://www.purplepride.org/index.php/community/discussion/2-vikings-fan-forum/1041495-rethe-curious-case-of-bernard-berrian/post/quote)

once again, I'm not a fan of those drop stats, I doubt their accuracy.

however, I'm not saying he has a drop problem, but his hand's aren't great. I expect they'll get better as he gets used to the pro game, he might get there, but he's not there yet, just my opinion.
I thought the dude made some mad catches this year especially considering how he was learning the tree and caught alot of his balls in traffic.


He has, He makes some great catches, but not all of them. I have no doubt he'll get better as he matures, he's still a rookie, but he's not quite there yet. I'm sure you'll have to agree.



Long story short, those hands will get better as his confidence grows.

That's what I've been saying. Playing with "the ole noodle" certainly accelerated his confidence growth. I'm particularly interested to see how Harvin and Rice play next season if Favre doesn't come back.

Minniman
02-23-2010, 07:35 PM
i_bleed_purple wrote:

V4L wrote:

tastywaves wrote:

Zeus wrote:

PackSux! wrote:

Zeus wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

My only discussion point with you was mostly related to how fans count drops. I'm not one of those "it hit him in the hands he should have caught it" kindof guys. I know there are alot of variables that go into a dropped ball and alot fo them aren't the recievers fault.

Again, if you have a problem with how many they classified as drops, go to them and ask for the data. As they said on thier page, the stand by thier info.

Drops, BTW, are not an official NFL statistic for this exact reason. That's why I tend to discount those stats.

As to Berrian - his hammy clearly was hurting during a large part of the season. Sid Rice is now the deep threat. Berrian is not need to "stretch the field". If there's money to be saved that could be spent elsewhere, I'm all for letting him go.

Trade him for Moss!

That will solve everything.

Dear God, no. Moss = Sid Rice. They are the same type of player. What the Vikings need is a possession guy like Welker who can play in the slot or on the outside.

=Z=

Jordan Shipley


Percy Harvin

he seems to drop too many to play the Welker role right now. I think with a couple years under him he could become a very reliable slot guy, but right now he seems best in the intermediate route. As he gets older and learns the game more, he could be a welker, or steve smith kind of guy.

Wes Welker is a great possession receiver. He gets into space and makes catches.

Percy Harvin is more of a YAC receiver. He makes catches and gets into space.