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View Full Version : To all those Sully haters out there...



Braddock
11-24-2009, 10:05 AM
Middle of Ravens line struggling
In the past two games, the middle of the Ravens' offensive line has had problems run blocking, especially in short-yardage situations.

The two struggling the most are right guard Chris Chester and center Matt Birk. With Chester, the Ravens can always insert Marshal Yanda in short-yardage situations. With Birk, he remains the Ravens' best option, but the Ravens might have to give him help more often, or keep the play to the outside
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/blog/2009/11/middle_of_ravens_line_struggling.html

Just thought you'd like to know...

BloodyHorns82
11-24-2009, 10:09 AM
I haven't heard anybody bashing Sully as of late...but this is news is nice to hear.
Looks like the FO may have been on to something with letting Birk move on and not offering him a large, short term contract.

Braddock
11-24-2009, 10:13 AM
"BloodyHorns82" wrote:


I haven't heard anybody bashing Sully as of late...but this is news is nice to hear.
Looks like the FO may have been on to something with letting Birk move on and not offering him a large, short term contract.


Oh, i know there haven't been any as of late. Just saying, for those in the past (salt on the wound)..

gagarr
11-24-2009, 11:01 AM
Birk may be struggling in Baltimore because he's spent 4 years being corrupted with zone blocking.

NordicNed
11-24-2009, 11:13 AM
"gagarr" wrote:


Birk may be struggling in Baltimore because he's spent 4 years being corrupted with zone blocking.
The thing that hurt Birk's play the most was his having the hip surgery.....He was never the same after that, and I can sympathy with that fact.
I've said it before somewhere and still stand by my thought.
Birk was and will, never be the same because of that surgery.
Surgery of that magnitude, takes a hell of alot out of a person. Not to mention a starting NFL Center......I give him made credit for just coming back and doing what he did.




I'm very happy with our young (new) center, Sullivan.
He's been doing a great job for a first year starter at center....He will only continue the fact that we have always had very good centers on this team.

VikingMike
11-24-2009, 11:17 AM
"NordicNed" wrote:


"gagarr" wrote:


Birk may be struggling in Baltimore because he's spent 4 years being corrupted with zone blocking.
The thing that hurt Birk's play the most was his having the hip surgery.....He was never the same after that, and I can sympathy with that fact.
I've said it before somewhere and still stand by my thought.
Birk was and will, never be the same because of that surgery.
Surgery of that magnitude, takes a hell of alot out of a person. Not to mention a starting NFL Center......I give him made credit for just coming back and doing what he did.




I'm very happy with our young (new) center, Sullivan.
He's been doing a great job for a first year starter at center....He will only continue the fact that we have always had very good centers on this team.



+1. I like the way he's coming along. Done a nice job the past few weeks.

And Mick needs to be in the HOF.

tastywaves
11-24-2009, 11:17 AM
"Braddock" wrote:



Middle of Ravens line struggling
In the past two games, the middle of the Ravens' offensive line has had problems run blocking, especially in short-yardage situations.

The two struggling the most are right guard Chris Chester and center Matt Birk. With Chester, the Ravens can always insert Marshal Yanda in short-yardage situations. With Birk, he remains the Ravens' best option, but the Ravens might have to give him help more often, or keep the play to the outside
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/blog/2009/11/middle_of_ravens_line_struggling.html

Just thought you'd like to know...



I think you should have titled this thread "Just to make Marrdro's day".
I'm sure he's chuckling to himself somewhere in etherland.

kevoncox
11-24-2009, 11:21 AM
I still think Birk is a better C than Sully. Everyone fails to point out that the entire team is struggling. It's funny that our OL looks great now that we have a QB. Of course, you guys will point to the improvement stemming from a 2nd year Center and a Rookie RT instead of a 18 year vet
::) ::) ::) ::) ::). PPO is funny.

V4L
11-24-2009, 01:11 PM
Marrdro?

Caine
11-24-2009, 01:20 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


I still think Birk is a better C than Sully. Everyone fails to point out that the entire team is struggling. It's funny that our OL looks great now that we have a QB. Of course, you guys will point to the improvement stemming from a 2nd year Center and a Rookie RT instead of a 18 year vet
::) ::) ::) ::) ::). PPO is funny.


+1.

I too believe that Favre's ability has masked a lot of the growing pains and weaknesses of our Offense.

Caine

i_bleed_purple
11-24-2009, 01:33 PM
"Caine" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


I still think Birk is a better C than Sully. Everyone fails to point out that the entire team is struggling. It's funny that our OL looks great now that we have a QB. Of course, you guys will point to the improvement stemming from a 2nd year Center and a Rookie RT instead of a 18 year vet
::) ::) ::) ::) ::). PPO is funny.


+1.

I too believe that Favre's ability has masked a lot of the growing pains and weaknesses of our Offense.

Caine


I agree, I'm scared that when Favre leaves, it will be the same as when he left Green Bay.
The young OLine that everyone thought was great, actually is below average.
Letting up many sacks and not opening up run lanes.

V4L
11-24-2009, 01:34 PM
I think if Jackson is our QB will be fine

He can get away from pressure

He is still learning but I feel we will still have some growing pains

He will be able to hit Berrian, Harvin, Shank or Sid with the quick passes

gagarr
11-24-2009, 03:55 PM
Everyone's fooling themselves if they think Sully is currently better than Birk.
Birk is past his prime and Sully is on his way up.
I really doubt Sully will ever be a multi pro bowl center like Birk.
He will become a good center once he has experience, but he won't dominant.

That said I think Sully is ahead of where I thought he would be, I don't think he's fully insync with the other OLinemen yet especially with the zone blocking.
But he's doing a decent job and will only get better as the season goes on.


Same goes for Loadholdt, except I think he has Pro Bowl potential.

Formo
11-24-2009, 04:10 PM
I'm not big on watching the o-line, so I don't really have an opinion.
Except when a guy makes multiple obvious mistakes on the same drive (Cook).

I am kinda shocked to see Matty B struggling in Baltimore, though.

marshallvike
11-24-2009, 04:23 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Caine" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


I still think Birk is a better C than Sully. Everyone fails to point out that the entire team is struggling. It's funny that our OL looks great now that we have a QB. Of course, you guys will point to the improvement stemming from a 2nd year Center and a Rookie RT instead of a 18 year vet
::) ::) ::) ::) ::). PPO is funny.


+1.

I too believe that Favre's ability has masked a lot of the growing pains and weaknesses of our Offense.

Caine


I agree, I'm scared that when Favre leaves, it will be the same as when he left Green Bay.
The young OLine that everyone thought was great, actually is below average.
Letting up many sacks and not opening up run lanes.


I don"t know guys. No doubt there are mistakes made, but there there are many plays that Farve has all day back there on passing plays. Ask Bear or Puker fans how our line looks. I hated seeing Birk play in another uniform but, I do not remember our QB"s having this much time in a few years.

Caine
11-24-2009, 07:38 PM
"V4L" wrote:


I think if Jackson is our QB will be fine

He can get away from pressure

He is still learning but I feel we will still have some growing pains

He will be able to hit Berrian, Harvin, Shank or Sid with the quick passes


I couldn't disagree more.
I think that Jackson will be a HUGE step backwards, and that Chiller needs to aggressively solve the QB situation ASAP.

Caine

jkjuggalo
11-24-2009, 07:47 PM
"Caine" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


I think if Jackson is our QB will be fine

He can get away from pressure

He is still learning but I feel we will still have some growing pains

He will be able to hit Berrian, Harvin, Shank or Sid with the quick passes


I couldn't disagree more.
I think that Jackson will be a HUGE step backwards, and that Chiller needs to aggressively solve the QB situation ASAP.

Caine


That's assuming Jackson even resigns with the team...but I don't want to hijack the thread here.

I've been impressed with Sully's overall improvement and he seems to have the right pedigree for a center.
I'm hoping all of his experience is going to help him in the playoffs when better teams are really going to test our line.

midgensa
11-24-2009, 09:24 PM
"V4L" wrote:


I think if Jackson is our QB will be fine

He can get away from pressure

He is still learning but I feel we will still have some growing pains

He will be able to hit Berrian, Harvin, Shank or Sid with the quick passes


I am not TOTALLY in the anti-Jackson crowd ... but your last statement is my biggest concern.

I don't think he makes reads fast enough to make those quick passes. And those are desperately needed to set up the longer plays that he can make.

I think we are still strong division contenders if not favorites with T-Jack ... but I don't think we are in the Super Bowl picture. And honestly, with TJ, I don't think we ever really will be.

molineviking
11-24-2009, 10:13 PM
"gagarr" wrote:


Everyone's fooling themselves if they think Sully is currently better than Birk.
Birk is past his prime and Sully is on his way up.
I really doubt Sully will ever be a multi pro bowl center like Birk.
He will become a good center once he has experience, but he won't dominant.

That said I think Sully is ahead of where I thought he would be, I don't think he's fully insync with the other OLinemen yet especially with the zone blocking.
But he's doing a decent job and will only get better as the season goes on.


Same goes for Loadholdt, except I think he has Pro Bowl potential.






I almost completely agree with everything Except that I think Sully can become a pro bowler, A few weeks ago when arguing with a certain QB hater about Birk being irreplaceable I paid closer attention to his play and have realized he is more than holding his own most of the time.



This being his first year he has plenty of room for improvement and with Hutch on his left for the next few years (Rest of his career I hope) Not to mention any help he gets from Favre I think could make him at or near pro bowl caliber, Our O line coaching dept. has done a good job the last few years.

Garland Greene
11-24-2009, 10:18 PM
Well if Sullivan follows along the same path as our last 2 Centers teh Vikings have had we are in good shape for many years to come

Sajid28
11-24-2009, 11:06 PM
"Garland" wrote:


Well if Sullivan follows along the same path as our last 2 Centers teh Vikings have had we are in good shape for many years to come


isnt sully one of the 10 vikings who are leading in pro bowl votes?

http://www.dailynorseman.com/2009/11/17/1162318/viking-fans-apparently-stuffing

Formo
11-24-2009, 11:09 PM
"midgensa" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


I think if Jackson is our QB will be fine

He can get away from pressure

He is still learning but I feel we will still have some growing pains

He will be able to hit Berrian, Harvin, Shank or Sid with the quick passes


I am not TOTALLY in the anti-Jackson crowd ... but your last statement is my biggest concern.

I don't think he makes reads fast enough to make those quick passes. And those are desperately needed to set up the longer plays that he can make.

I think we are still strong division contenders if not favorites with T-Jack ... but I don't think we are in the Super Bowl picture. And honestly, with TJ, I don't think we ever really will be.


Yeah..
T-Jack will have to prove to us that he's able to play successful in the playoffs.
But lets not forget he's gotten hurt the past year..

kevoncox
11-24-2009, 11:11 PM
"marshallvike" wrote:


"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"Caine" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


I still think Birk is a better C than Sully. Everyone fails to point out that the entire team is struggling. It's funny that our OL looks great now that we have a QB. Of course, you guys will point to the improvement stemming from a 2nd year Center and a Rookie RT instead of a 18 year vet
::) ::) ::) ::) ::). PPO is funny.


+1.

I too believe that Favre's ability has masked a lot of the growing pains and weaknesses of our Offense.

Caine


I agree, I'm scared that when Favre leaves, it will be the same as when he left Green Bay.
The young OLine that everyone thought was great, actually is below average.
Letting up many sacks and not opening up run lanes.


I don"t know guys. No doubt there are mistakes made, but there there are many plays that Farve has all day back there on passing plays. Ask Bear or Puker fans how our line looks. I hated seeing Birk play in another uniform but, I do not remember our QB"s having this much time in a few years.


They have to respect Favre's throwing ability. Most DCs are probably less likely to blitz Favre than TJ. Less blitzers equal better blitz pickup and that equals more time to throw.

Purple Floyd
11-24-2009, 11:20 PM
"midgensa" wrote:


"V4L" wrote:


I think if Jackson is our QB will be fine

He can get away from pressure

He is still learning but I feel we will still have some growing pains

He will be able to hit Berrian, Harvin, Shank or Sid with the quick passes


I am not TOTALLY in the anti-Jackson crowd ... but your last statement is my biggest concern.

I don't think he makes reads fast enough to make those quick passes. And those are desperately needed to set up the longer plays that he can make.

I think we are still strong division contenders if not favorites with T-Jack ... but I don't think we are in the Super Bowl picture. And honestly, with TJ, I don't think we ever really will be.


Bingo.

I am not anti- Jackson either. Just Anti-Jackson when playing in a WCO. If we played a scheme like Pitt or Dallas he stands a chance.

Marrdro
11-25-2009, 08:01 AM
"tastywaves" wrote:


"Braddock" wrote:



Middle of Ravens line struggling
In the past two games, the middle of the Ravens' offensive line has had problems run blocking, especially in short-yardage situations.

The two struggling the most are right guard Chris Chester and center Matt Birk. With Chester, the Ravens can always insert Marshal Yanda in short-yardage situations. With Birk, he remains the Ravens' best option, but the Ravens might have to give him help more often, or keep the play to the outside
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/blog/2009/11/middle_of_ravens_line_struggling.html

Just thought you'd like to know...



I think you should have titled this thread "Just to make Marrdro's day".
I'm sure he's chuckling to himself somewhere in etherland.

.....snicker....... ;D

Marrdro
11-25-2009, 08:04 AM
"kevoncox" wrote:


I still think Birk is a better C than Sully. Everyone fails to point out that the entire team is struggling. It's funny that our OL looks great now that we have a QB. Of course, you guys will point to the improvement stemming from a 2nd year Center and a Rookie RT instead of a 18 year vet
::) ::) ::) ::) ::). PPO is funny.

As I pointed out to you in another thread (I will be curious to read your response), have you noticed how well thier QB is playing this year as apposed to last year?

Only person/role that has changed is the C.
They lost the guy I thought we should have plugged in and they got the guy I thought was past his prime.

Coincidence?
I think not.......course, I've been known to be wrong before.
;D

Marrdro
11-25-2009, 08:06 AM
"Caine" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


I still think Birk is a better C than Sully. Everyone fails to point out that the entire team is struggling. It's funny that our OL looks great now that we have a QB. Of course, you guys will point to the improvement stemming from a 2nd year Center and a Rookie RT instead of a 18 year vet
::) ::) ::) ::) ::). PPO is funny.


+1.

I too believe that Favre's ability has masked a lot of the growing pains and weaknesses of our Offense.

Caine

And yet we continually read quotes from the beloved starter under Center how well the current Center is playing and how well he is doing reading D's and making the correct line calls.

Hmmmmmmm.
Who ya going to believe, some yutz arm chair QB who thought Birks better days were over or the guy sticking his hands up Sully's butt?

On a side note, I am pleasantly suprised how well Sully is playing.
I, for one, still wish they would have signed Brown.
Guess the FO pukes and Coaches were smarter than me again.
;)

Marrdro
11-25-2009, 08:08 AM
"V4L" wrote:


I think if Jackson is our QB will be fine

He can get away from pressure

He is still learning but I feel we will still have some growing pains

He will be able to hit Berrian, Harvin, Shank or Sid with the quick passes

Finally, some actual football common sense injected into a discussion...... ;) ;D

Marrdro
11-25-2009, 08:12 AM
"gagarr" wrote:


Everyone's fooling themselves if they think Sully is currently better than Birk.
Birk is past his prime and Sully is on his way up.
I really doubt Sully will ever be a multi pro bowl center like Birk.
He will become a good center once he has experience, but he won't dominant.

That said I think Sully is ahead of where I thought he would be, I don't think he's fully insync with the other OLinemen yet especially with the zone blocking.
But he's doing a decent job and will only get better as the season goes on.


Same goes for Loadholdt, except I think he has Pro Bowl potential.



Some more good sense.

I do wonder why you think that he won't excell to a "Pro-bowl" level though. I've been watching him as close as one can from the vantage point of my "Easy-Boy".
There have been some gaffs but there have been some damn nice plays as well.


Watching him, Herrera and Hutch work thier magic on the inside as well as getting out (A center who can pull) is fun to watch.

Maybe what you are seeing (something I'm not) will explain the possible tweak in the blocking scheme that no one seems to talk about much.

Marrdro
11-25-2009, 08:14 AM
"Formo" wrote:


I'm not big on watching the o-line, so I don't really have an opinion.
Except when a guy makes multiple obvious mistakes on the same drive (Cook).

I am kinda shocked to see Matty B struggling in Baltimore, though.

Poor Cook.
Everytime I see that I wonder, you must have missed the games were Birk had multiple gaffs.
How about young PL this year.
Did you catch those?

Comeon my friend.
Why pick on Cook all the time.
It wasn't his fault the Coaches didn't have a better answer.
All he did was go out there and play his best.

Marrdro
11-25-2009, 08:17 AM
"molineviking" wrote:


"gagarr" wrote:


Everyone's fooling themselves if they think Sully is currently better than Birk.
Birk is past his prime and Sully is on his way up.
I really doubt Sully will ever be a multi pro bowl center like Birk.
He will become a good center once he has experience, but he won't dominant.

That said I think Sully is ahead of where I thought he would be, I don't think he's fully insync with the other OLinemen yet especially with the zone blocking.
But he's doing a decent job and will only get better as the season goes on.


Same goes for Loadholdt, except I think he has Pro Bowl potential.






I almost completely agree with everything Except that I think Sully can become a pro bowler, A few weeks ago when arguing with a certain QB hater about Birk being irreplaceable I paid closer attention to his play and have realized he is more than holding his own most of the time.




This being his first year he has plenty of room for improvement and with Hutch on his left for the next few years (Rest of his career I hope) Not to mention any help he gets from Favre I think could make him at or near pro bowl caliber, Our O line coaching dept. has done a good job the last few years.





That cat never argues my friend.
He only discusses.
Arguing is for the other Vikings Sites.


This is a Vikings discussion page were discussions lead to insight and insight leads to increased awareness.
;)

Marrdro
11-25-2009, 08:18 AM
"Garland" wrote:


Well if Sullivan follows along the same path as our last 2 Centers teh Vikings have had we are in good shape for many years to come

Just two my friend?
:o