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ADubya26
02-23-2005, 02:10 PM
if Moss is traded? Personally, I think he will be horrible. I like Daunte, but sometimes he looks like he's getting to that elite level and other times he looks like a retard out there. He started off this season and looked like he was finally at that ultimate level, then he dropped off a bit when Moss got hurt. That shows how big Moss is to the offense and Daunte's success. With Moss in the lineup I think we have a shot at going to the Superbowl (im not set on Daunte winning one yet), but without him I dont see us doing very much. Our defense will be better, but both our offense and defense will be about middle of the pack.

One of the reasons I think Randy leaving might be a possibility is because Daunte came out and said it might be time for Randy to move on. Daunte has become the leader of the team, and he has the right attitude about winning and how to do so. BUT, he cannot do it without Moss. Moss has a seemingly bad attitude sometimes BECAUSE he is not winning. Im not sure if it is because he doesnt think Daunte can help him get a championship, or he just doesnt think the team as a whole can do it sometimes.

Either way, it would be nice to see them come together and take the reigns of the team. I would love to see Culpepper to Moss next year, and them doing a dance together in the endzone, no matter how innappropriate it is!!

ajefx
02-23-2005, 03:04 PM
Before last year, it seemed like Culpepper would look to Moss first, and even force it to Moss when he wasn't open. However, last season (and a little the year before, too) he began looking at other guys, throwing the ball away when no one was open, etc. and playing smarter football.

Still, he is not ready to play a full season without Randy.

skogs02
02-23-2005, 03:08 PM
he better be ready cuz moss is gonna be a raider

jackyl
02-23-2005, 03:13 PM
If Moss won't restructure.... he ain't going anywhere.

Withy07
02-23-2005, 04:04 PM
culpepper and vikings will become so better without moss. There will be a true team sprit and culpepper is a great qb with or without moss.

VKG4LFE
02-23-2005, 04:13 PM
"jackyl" wrote:

If Moss won't restructure.... he ain't going anywhere.


I pray to GOD that he doesn't restructure, or he skips going to the physical!!

ADubya26
02-23-2005, 04:41 PM
Well looks like this thread is a lot more applicable now!

V4L
02-23-2005, 04:45 PM
jackyl go get some details for us.. go talk to red and kick him in the balls for me!

triedandtruevikesfan
02-23-2005, 04:45 PM
I for one think that the only positive side of this is that Daunte will become the leader that he needs to be. He matured so much last season... with Moss gone... I see him continueing to improve. This WILL NOT be the end of Daunte's career

VKG4LFE
02-23-2005, 04:46 PM
Here is a prediction, Daunte's numbers will suffer. Just a hunch!

Viking_Spirit
02-23-2005, 04:48 PM
Daunte's numbers may suffer, but the team will be better.

VKG4LFE
02-23-2005, 04:49 PM
I hope so!! Winning is everything!! I will get over this much faster if we win!

GQVikesfan
02-23-2005, 04:50 PM
"triedandtruevikesfan" wrote:

I for one think that the only positive side of this is that Daunte will become the leader that he needs to be. He matured so much last season... with Moss gone... I see him continueing to improve. This WILL NOT be the end of Daunte's career


You know what I find funny about this whole thing is that in the Pro Bowl, they were interviewing Mcnabb, Pepp and Vick and they were all saying that Mcnabb had Owens, Pepp had Moss and that someone had to give Vick a reciever.. well it looks like someone has to give Pepp a marquee reciever now.. But, nothing is final until March 2nd.

triedandtruevikesfan
02-23-2005, 04:50 PM
This is where I'm gonna disagree with you. Don't think that I like this move because I don't!!! However, we will, more then likely, pick up one of the other top name WR FA's. Which is probably one of the reasons that they let this leak so early. They can't announce the move in April when all those WR's are gone. Moss doesn't make Daunte... as much as I love Moss... I love Daunte more. We will get another solid number 1 WR and our offense will still be good. Last year Daunte's numbers didn't suffer at all and Moss was out for a portion of the year. If anything I believe that this will help Daunte improve.

GQVikesfan
02-23-2005, 04:55 PM
"triedandtruevikesfan" wrote:

This is where I'm gonna disagree with you. Don't think that I like this move because I don't!!! However, we will, more then likely, pick up one of the other top name WR FA's. Which is probably one of the reasons that they let this leak so early. They can't announce the move in April when all those WR's are gone. Moss doesn't make Daunte... as much as I love Moss... I love Daunte more. We will get another solid number 1 WR and our offense will still be good. Last year Daunte's numbers didn't suffer at all and Moss was out for a portion of the year. If anything I believe that this will help Daunte improve.

I love Pepp too! Hopefully him and Burleson will progress even more! By the way do they sell Burleson jersey's yet? I cant find anything here in Las Vegas.

cajunvike
02-23-2005, 04:56 PM
"triedandtruevikesfan" wrote:

This is where I'm gonna disagree with you. Don't think that I like this move because I don't!!! However, we will, more then likely, pick up one of the other top name WR FA's. Which is probably one of the reasons that they let this leak so early. They can't announce the move in April when all those WR's are gone. Moss doesn't make Daunte... as much as I love Moss... I love Daunte more. We will get another solid number 1 WR and our offense will still be good. Last year Daunte's numbers didn't suffer at all and Moss was out for a portion of the year. If anything I believe that this will help Daunte improve.

ONLY if our stingy owner (or whomever will be the new owner) will open up his pocketbook...there is a pretty good chance that we won't spend much in the FA market...which would be disasterous for our team!

V4L
02-23-2005, 04:57 PM
and we get a number 1 reciever like plax on our team also!

VKG4LFE
02-23-2005, 04:57 PM
I would say that would be disastrous. I think we would be 38 million under the cap if this trade were to go through. We need impact guys with that 38 mil!

triedandtruevikesfan
02-23-2005, 04:58 PM
True Cajun, but as stupid as I find our front office right now... I can't believe that they are stupid enough to think that Burly is capable at this time of being our number 1... he's not... he's a very solid number 2 and perhaps in a couple of years will become a number 1... but he's not ready yet. We HAVE to spend almost have of our cap room... which leaves us room for both a stud defensive player and a solid number 1

ultravikingfan
02-23-2005, 05:00 PM
Daunte is an excellent QB with or without Moss. I know he wasn't the same when Moss was injured, but Daunte will have more time to adjust.
Just because Moss may be gone, don't sell DC short.

VKG4LFE
02-23-2005, 05:03 PM
I'm not selling DC short, I love him. But, with Moss gone the O is different and won't be as successful, just my opinion though. I hope I'm wrong and I will eat crow all day!

cajunvike
02-23-2005, 05:05 PM
"triedandtruevikesfan" wrote:

True Cajun, but as stupid as I find our front office right now... I can't believe that they are stupid enough to think that Burly is capable at this time of being our number 1... he's not... he's a very solid number 2 and perhaps in a couple of years will become a number 1... but he's not ready yet. We HAVE to spend almost have of our cap room... which leaves us room for both a stud defensive player and a solid number 1

That is the $38 million dollar question?

triedandtruevikesfan
02-23-2005, 05:06 PM
*goes in the corner and cries*

ultravikingfan
02-23-2005, 05:09 PM
I know he isn't Moss, but it would be nice to pick him up. He is dying to play with an offense who actaully throws the ball. 6'5", tallest WR.

http://images.nfl.com/images/2001/burress_112501.jpg

VikesfaninGB
02-23-2005, 05:56 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:

Daunte is an excellent QB with or without Moss. I know he wasn't the same when Moss was injured, but Daunte will have more time to adjust.
Just because Moss may be gone, don't sell DC short.


Absolutely. Did any of us actually expect Daunte to throw 39 TD's again next year? He'll be fine. Hopefully the run game is a lot better with Klein and Roth coming back.

VKG4LFE
02-23-2005, 05:59 PM
Not 39, but I was hoping for around 30-33.

ItalianStallion
02-23-2005, 06:01 PM
Why does everyone thing we are 38 miilion under now? Don't we take like a 10 million dollar hit for his stupid bonus.

VKG4LFE
02-23-2005, 06:03 PM
Currently we are 36 under. If the trade goes through we get an extra 2 mil and I think that bonus affects us in later years.

VikesfaninGB
02-23-2005, 06:04 PM
"VKG4LFE" wrote:

Not 39, but I was hoping for around 30-33.


He could still throw for 30. He had to adjust without Moss those first few games they played without him but the last two Pep looked good.

VikesfaninGB
02-23-2005, 06:08 PM
I thought the bonus was already paid in the first few years? I'm out of the loop though.

VKG4LFE
02-23-2005, 06:09 PM
I'm not sure on all the contractual stuff, that is all over my head!

LosAngelis
02-23-2005, 06:32 PM
I think, honestly, Culpepper is going to be a lot better. He's going to be able to look around to all his receivers, not Moss, #2, Moss, #3, Moss, #4 like I suspect he's had to do.

The Packers had the same thing when Sterling Sharpe retired, and everyone predicted Favre would suffer without a superstar WR. He then won three MVP's in a row.

VKG4LFE
02-23-2005, 06:38 PM
Stop bragging up Favre, we are mourning!!!

LosAngelis
02-23-2005, 06:41 PM
I'm not trying to, seriously!

I do think that Pepper would not suffer because of the trade. I have said since day one on this site that Pepper is the best thing this team has going, and the fact the Burleson showed signs of being a go-to guy just makes that situation better.

Factor in two picks in the top 20 of a draft that is laden with defensive talent, the fact you have three starting running backs and two starting tight ends, and perhaps the best QB-as-a-weapon other than Vick...I'm not worried about your offense suffering that much. And the defense can only get better.

muchluv4smoot
02-23-2005, 06:41 PM
"LosAngelis" wrote:

I think, honestly, Culpepper is going to be a lot better. He's going to be able to look around to all his receivers, not Moss, #2, Moss, #3, Moss, #4 like I suspect he's had to do.

The Packers had the same thing when Sterling Sharpe retired, and everyone predicted Favre would suffer without a superstar WR. He then won three MVP's in a row.



I agree 100%, but we do need to get derrick mason or burress or even coles in a trade.

Daunte grew a ton last year and is now gonna be free to lead this team. Remember last year our offense was based around Moss. When a player an offense is based around gets injured, you can't expect that offense to be great right away. It took daunte time to adjust, but he got better. Also we didn't have that replacement for Moss to throw in there last year, this year we will have that replacement, wether it is mason or burress. I really think this is gonna help daunte become one of the best QB's in the league, right there with Manning. He might not put up manning type #'s, with the expected switch to a more running offense, but he will still be a great QB next season.

LosAngelis
02-23-2005, 06:43 PM
You're a smart man, muchluv...

Also, I don't think Culpepper's numbers will be as gaudy.

But, I think he'll be more efficient and will be a more effective leader.

muchluv4smoot
02-23-2005, 06:44 PM
"LosAngelis" wrote:

I'm not trying to, seriously!

I do think that Pepper would not suffer because of the trade. I have said since day one on this site that Pepper is the best thing this team has going, and the fact the Burleson showed signs of being a go-to guy just makes that situation better.

Factor in two picks in the top 20 of a draft that is laden with defensive talent, the fact you have three starting running backs and two starting tight ends, and perhaps the best QB-as-a-weapon other than Vick...I'm not worried about your offense suffering that much. And the defense can only get better.



Well here is one packer fan who isn't happy Moss is gone and think we will now suck. I suspect there are plenty more of you out there. I really think this was the best for our team. Ddi we get equal value? hell no! But I really didn't see it possible to get anywhere near equal value. Throw in the character and team chemistry factor as well as the fact that daunte can now become the only leader of this team, and this trade becomes much more fair to me.

VKG4LFE
02-23-2005, 06:45 PM
"LosAngelis" wrote:

I'm not trying to, seriously!

I do think that Pepper would not suffer because of the trade. I have said since day one on this site that Pepper is the best thing this team has going, and the fact the Burleson showed signs of being a go-to guy just makes that situation better.

Factor in two picks in the top 20 of a draft that is laden with defensive talent, the fact you have three starting running backs and two starting tight ends, and perhaps the best QB-as-a-weapon other than Vick...I'm not worried about your offense suffering that much. And the defense can only get better.


I know you're not, I was just kidding!!

Yeah, it's awesome to have 3 RBS, and 2 good TE's, but usually we only play one at a time and so it kind of hurts having them on the bench!!

muchluv4smoot
02-23-2005, 06:46 PM
"LosAngelis" wrote:

You're a smart man, muchluv...

Also, I don't think Culpepper's numbers will be as gaudy.

But, I think he'll be more efficient and will be a more effective leader.



Yeah the whole leadership part is the most important thing to me. Moss was trying to be that leader too and it didn't work when he was leaving the field with 2 seconds left and then saying he didn't care what his teammates thought about him leaving the field early.

LosAngelis
02-23-2005, 06:47 PM
LOL

I can find my post from December of 2003 when I said how much better off the Vikings would be.

I'm not sure this was as much in trade as I thought Moss would get. I'm wondering if Red/Fowler kind of got an itchy trigger finger. I did think he'd bring a Pro-Bowl level talented player in trade in addition to the first.

But, you can't argue with a talented LB sitting on your team, and two top notch rookies to join them. I think the Vikes pick up a Dlineman and a secondary man in the the first 20 picks. Can't argue too much with that.

And, you have the salary cap space to bring in two of those free agent WR's if you want.

See! I was right! Oh, wait...darn it! I was right... :-(

VKG4LFE
02-23-2005, 06:58 PM
Nothing's final yet!! Don't go gettin' ahead yourself there los!!

DemonicViking
02-23-2005, 07:07 PM
Gotta keep the faith in Daunte.. afterall, I'm wearing number 11 right now.

sdvikefan
02-23-2005, 07:23 PM
Daunte has some adjusting to do, losing Moss and Linehan. I'm not sure how the offense will be run now, but keep in mind our running game will also be at full strength next year, especially with Kleinsasser returning. There is no doubt we will sign a receiver in free agency, preferably Burress who is tall like Moss and can go deep, or we might end up drafting somebody. Either way, Daunte will be fine. He has had Randy all these years that he has matured as a QB, and now I think he can get things done with or without him.

VKG4LFE
02-23-2005, 07:24 PM
"sdvikefan" wrote:

Daunte has some adjusting to do, losing Moss and Linehan. I'm not sure how the offense will be run now, but keep in mind our running game will also be at full strength next year, especially with Kleinsasser returning. There is no doubt we will sign a receiver in free agency, preferably Burress who is tall like Moss and can go deep, or we might end up drafting somebody. Either way, Daunte will be fine. He has had Randy all these years that he has matured as a QB, and now I think he can get things done with or without him.


Knock on wood!!!

ADubya26
02-23-2005, 07:30 PM
I think our running game will suffer next year. Moss opened up the run single handedly - now defenses can actually afford to play a regular defense on us and play single coverage on our WRs. If our offense is going to be even close to where it was last year, Daunte needs to mature dramatically and MM/Onterrio are going to have to prove they are the real deal. Its all possible, I just dont see it right now.