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View Full Version : Good article on ZB Vs. 3-4 defense



Purple Floyd
09-30-2009, 06:58 PM
Since we are facing the Packers this week and this will be the first time we see their new look 3-4 defense, I did a little searching about what to expect and came up with this little nugget.

http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2009/09/eric_winston_tutorial_about_zo.html

Zone Blocking Schemes versus 3-4 Defenses (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVocXGnopiA&feature=player_embedded#)

It is a good description of how facing a 3-4 presents challenges to the ZB offense and may give a hint as to why GB decided to switch to it to try to negate the AD factor.

Here is one snippet that pretty much sums up my stance on the coaching of the ZB scheme over the past 4 years


After the loss, Gary Kubiak noted the following:

(on if he is seeing the kind of toughness from the linemen that he wants to make the running game successful)



"I don't see anybody not playing hard, but I see some confusion that we should not have. Those five guys have played more together than anybody on our team. To me, when there is confusion going on with those guys, then to me that's telling you something as a coach. It's telling you that you're doing something wrong. So we've got to take our look at ourselves as coaches and make sure we don't have these players confused. I'm seeing some mistakes from those guys that I haven't seen in the past."

My sentiments exactly.

bad93ex
09-30-2009, 07:05 PM
Do either of the Bears, Bengals, or Rams run the ZBS?
I dont think AD will have a problem with this defense.

i_bleed_purple
09-30-2009, 07:07 PM
"bad93ex" wrote:


Do either of the Bears, Bengals, or Rams run the ZBS?
I dont think AD will have a problem with this defense.


AD didn't have a problem with the browns defense either.

bad93ex
09-30-2009, 07:15 PM
I think the Packers D is a little better than the Browns but it is skewed because of Cutler's 4 INT's that first game.
I just haven't seen the packers stop any RB so far this year.

i_bleed_purple
09-30-2009, 07:24 PM
"bad93ex" wrote:


I think the Packers D is a little better than the Browns but it is skewed because of Cutler's 4 INT's that first game.
I just haven't seen the packers stop any RB so far this year.


They did a good job on the bears, only 2.77 yards per rush, but got carved up by benson and Steven Jackson.

bad93ex
09-30-2009, 07:30 PM
The bears abandoned the running game early in that game because Cutler wanted to throw the football all over the Packers defense.
Had they slowed it up a bit in the game and tried to run the ball more on them to set up the pass that game is completely different.
Matt Forte is a good RB.

i_bleed_purple
09-30-2009, 07:36 PM
"bad93ex" wrote:


The bears abandoned the running game early in that game because Cutler wanted to throw the football all over the Packers defense.
Had they slowed it up a bit in the game and tried to run the ball more on them to set up the pass that game is completely different.
Matt Forte is a good RB.


Forte carried 25 times for 55 yards.
He jus thad a bad game, that and the Line couldn't block for him..

Essentially, hte Packers D played well the first game, then like shit against two terrible teams.

bad93ex
09-30-2009, 07:47 PM
Thanks for the clarification.
I thought that he only got the ball maybe 10-12 times that game.

i_bleed_purple
09-30-2009, 07:48 PM
"bad93ex" wrote:


Thanks for the clarification.
I thought that he only got the ball maybe 10-12 times that game.


no sir, they actually played alright (or maybe the bears just played like shit)

bad93ex
09-30-2009, 07:49 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"bad93ex" wrote:


Thanks for the clarification.
I thought that he only got the ball maybe 10-12 times that game.


no sir, they actually played alright (or maybe the bears just played like pooh)


I will take the latter on that one as the Bears have showed up in the games since.

kevoncox
09-30-2009, 08:28 PM
I think one of the issues with us vs. the 3-4 is that AD simply does not take what is there. Sometimes he is better off grabbing 4 in a battering ram style than stretching it wide for a 1 yard loss. Vs. teams with fast Lbs he simply cannot get to the edge when they are playing dicisplined football. Last weekend showed a pretty good blueprint on how to get add contained. String him wide and flow to the ball. The Pack have the personnel to be effective.

i_bleed_purple
09-30-2009, 08:31 PM
"kevoncox" wrote:


I think one of the issues with us vs. the 3-4 is that AD simply does not take what is there. Sometimes he is better off grabbing 4 in a battering ram style than stretching it wide for a 1 yard loss. Vs. teams with fast Lbs he simply cannot get to the edge when they are playing dicisplined football. Last weekend showed a pretty good blueprint on how to get add contained. String him wide and flow to the ball. The Pack have the personnel to be effective.


I think this is a game to mix up the backs frequently, and run alot of runs between the tackles.
Let them find the holes in the 3 man line and take it for 4.

V4L
10-02-2009, 12:04 PM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


I think one of the issues with us vs. the 3-4 is that AD simply does not take what is there. Sometimes he is better off grabbing 4 in a battering ram style than stretching it wide for a 1 yard loss. Vs. teams with fast Lbs he simply cannot get to the edge when they are playing dicisplined football. Last weekend showed a pretty good blueprint on how to get add contained. String him wide and flow to the ball. The Pack have the personnel to be effective.


I think this is a game to mix up the backs frequently, and run alot of runs between the tackles.
Let them find the holes in the 3 man line and take it for 4.



+1

Marrdro
10-04-2009, 06:51 AM
"i_bleed_purple" wrote:


"kevoncox" wrote:


I think one of the issues with us vs. the 3-4 is that AD simply does not take what is there. Sometimes he is better off grabbing 4 in a battering ram style than stretching it wide for a 1 yard loss. Vs. teams with fast Lbs he simply cannot get to the edge when they are playing dicisplined football. Last weekend showed a pretty good blueprint on how to get add contained. String him wide and flow to the ball. The Pack have the personnel to be effective.


I think this is a game to mix up the backs frequently, and run alot of runs between the tackles.
Let them find the holes in the 3 man line and take it for 4.

Two solid posts right there.

Thanks for the listen.
Sounds like he was doing some stuff (diagraming) on a board or watching tape.
Wish we could have seen that along with the commentary.

With respect to ZB against 3-4..........

From a historical perspective Capers was one of the innovators of the zone-blitzing scheme with Pittsburgh back in the day and will throw multiple a combination of blitzes and coverages as any 3-4 defense in the league often overloading one side of the line with more rushers than blockers, and playing zone coverage behind them.


What that means is a one cut back like AD should be able to exploit those sets if the following happens:

a.
T can seal his end with out TE help.

b.
That will allow the TE to get out on the next level defender (ZB scheme concept) which should then leave just a S (WR blocks the CB) as the guy AD has to make miss.

If they can successfully make them pay early with AD, LNAD should be able to then exploit the gaps in the seam with pretty much the same personnel package, off the play action fake.

TE will look like he is trying to block the S (or next level guy) with a small chip and then release down field.

Again, the whole key to defeating the 3-4 with ZB'ing is to have a damn good one cut RB.
I believe I am safe in saying that we have one, if not two of them with AD and CT.

soonerbornNbred
10-04-2009, 07:08 AM
Heres a interesting read on how to beat the 3-4
http://www.postgameheroes.com/?p=1905

...but its not using a RB its using 5WR...I wonder if the Vikes would actually try this....doubt it

Marrdro
10-04-2009, 07:16 AM
"soonerbornNbred" wrote:


Heres a interesting read on how to beat the 3-4
http://www.postgameheroes.com/?p=1905

...but its not using a RB its using 5WR...I wonder if the Vikes would actually try this....doubt it

Interesting idea.

My guess is that they would run out a "strong nickle" look (see comments/questions at the bottom of this one) to handle that.
Course you would need a cat or two like Troy Polamalu to counter that.

http://static.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/davie/1440703.html

Purple Floyd
10-04-2009, 07:41 AM
"soonerbornNbred" wrote:


Heres a interesting read on how to beat the 3-4
http://www.postgameheroes.com/?p=1905

...but its not using a RB its using 5WR...I wonder if the Vikes would actually try this....doubt it


In the article the premise was that the Pats went to a 5 wr set to exploit the weakest part of the steelers D,which was their secondary. I don't believe the Packers weakest unit is their secondary at this point. At least it hasn't been in the past. But if the unit has dropped off,then the spread offense may well be the ticket. As a side note, a popular variation of the spread offense is- The Wildcat ;) Maybe we see 10-15 plays with Harvin lined up at QB and Brett standing on the sideline taking a breather ans looking at aerials to see what he can exploit on the next play ;D

gagarr
10-04-2009, 08:00 AM
Need I remind everyone that Capers' is still relying on his 15 yr old reflected glory of the 1994 Steelers D.

He really hasn't done much since.
His last gig at D coordinator was with the 2007 Dolphins who finished #32 against the run.
Currently Capers run D has been pathetic.
Both Benson and Jackson had their best games against GB.
Forte has been stopped by everyone, highest run avg of 3.1yds.

GB will be forced to drop 8 or 9 into the box to stop the run game and Favre will pick apart their zone.
Carson Palmer had his best game of the season against GB, with a 93 rating IN LAMBOO and he's still shaking off rust.

GB has no chance at beating the Vikes, only the Vikes will beat the Vikes in this game, which by default Pack will get a win.